How is this humanly possible?!?

[parmark]

I had a ton of headlines for this foul up.  I should be embarrassed, and I am. and still shaking my head.

 

Last year a playing partner went to get fitted. Fitter did him a good thing and said the shaft's are fine, let's just swap out the heads - Callaway Rogue's 2018.  He knows I play around with my clubs, so he says here you go, do something with these.

 

I pop them on a set of KBS 70 regular shafts, I had been using a Tour Edge 220h set with KBS 60 shafts. (I got fitted for driver with a senior shaft)  I'm fortunate and have a pass to a local course here in Northwest Chicago that is top notch - me and my partner tee off often the first 7 am tee time, off the course by 10 and both of us back to work.

 

So I used these clubs all last year - 70 rounds since he gave them to me; and then so far this year despite miserable spring weather almost 60 rounds. Including a round yesterday when I really had no real issues.

 

So what's the chance, went to a high end driving range today. Let me also suffice to say I always bring clubs in after playing, I did hear that if they sit outside in your car it can become too hot and epoxy issues may appear. (How ironic.)

 

I hit a few squirely shots with PW, don't think much about it, that happens.  Try the 9-iron - hmm same thing. Grab the 7-iron, two bad swings, I look at the club, the grip isn't lined up like it should be. Sure enough, a tad loose.  Weird. AND THE SAME THING - PW, 9 and 8!!  How does that happen??  I know - poor craftsmanship - but like this.

 

I'm still shaking my head.  Like anything else in the world there is some good from all this.  Explained this to the wife, she know's i'm a bit frugal why I make my own clubs to begin with, says go get an early bday present for upcoming 70th and pop for a good set!!!  

 

But honestly I can't understand this at all. 

Edited June 21 by parmark

[Socrates]

Stuff happens.  Lots of possibilities.  The best candidate is them using epoxy that isn't made for golf equipment.  Or a poor prep job that finally caught up to you.  Have them professionally pulled apart and re-epoxied and you should be fine.

[parmark]

28 minutes ago, Socrates said:

Stuff happens.  Lots of possibilities.  The best candidate is them using epoxy that isn't made for golf equipment.  Or a poor prep job that finally caught up to you.  Have them professionally pulled apart and re-epoxied and you should be fine.

Professionally? What's that!?  LOL

 

I've already pulled them and prepped and applied Brampton's epoxy. As us old school'ers might say - if at first you don't succeed, try try again! 

[Jc0]

Do you know what expoxy was originally used and how long did you have them in your car for? I'm in Chicago too and it's been 90 with heavy sun the last two days. That means your car can get above 130-140F which will break down some epoxies. Once the epoxy over heats it's done. 

[parmark]

6 minutes ago, Jc0 said:

Do you know what expoxy was originally used and how long did you have them in your car for? I'm in Chicago too and it's been 90 with heavy sun the last two days. That means your car can get above 130-140F which will break down some epoxies. Once the epoxy over heats it's done. 

Hi JcO -- Thanks for note, but like I said, they are never sitting in my car. Just Monday when I caddied for a buddy played the State's PGA Senior Championship, and that was a hot one.  But I used them yesterday, didn't really feel any issues.

 

To have them ALL have this happen all at once like this just befuddles me.  I have another set I made myself last year - they seem to be holding up.  I think maybe I was out of the official compound epoxy I use and went with a Jen Weld compound for these, it was just a year ago almost to the day.

 

Will be interesting going back to the Tour Edge 200h set this weekend. 

[tatertot]

Interestingly ... I leave my clubs in the car 365 days of the year, and I live in Iowa. Our temps bounce between -30 and 110. Never had a problem with epoxy on heads.

Edited June 21 by tatertot

[AZ_JHWK]

3 minutes ago, tatertot said:

Interestingly ... I leave my clubs in the card 365 days of the year, and I live in Iowa. Our temps bounce between -30 and 110. Never had a problem with epoxy on heads.

Same. I live in Mesa, AZ and the clubs never leave the trunk. I've never had that issue and it gets a little warm on occasion. 😜

[Socrates]

1 hour ago, parmark said:

Professionally? What's that!?  LOL

 

I've already pulled them and prepped and applied Brampton's epoxy. As us old school'ers might say - if at first you don't succeed, try try again! 

By someone who knows what they are doing as opposed to someone who thinks they do.  Do it right and do it right the first time.

[Pudgelewis]

Well, what we really want to know is if you’re going to take your wife up on her offer and, if you are, what you’re going with?

 

I’ve heard the epoxy tales but think you’re the first person I’ve ever heard it actually happening to. 

[dubbelbogey]

I suspect leaving clubs in the car is actually more the norm, rather than the exception, even in the South. Outside of club building forums, I have neither seen nor heard general advice to not keep clubs in the car. The manufacturers would be all over this if this was a general need. There would be stickers on shafts that say "Do Not Store in Heat". But there are not, and there are not heads flying off all over the place.

 

Not to say heat from a car can't exacerbate a poorly done bond. I.e. one that used inferior epoxy or poor prep technique, but for a glue job that uses decent materials and process, this should not be a problem.

 

I think the max heat inside a car is in the 140F range, even in places like AZ. This just so happens to be right in the ballpark of the temp to accelerate curing of some epoxies. I won't claim this is true for all epoxies, but certainly some. Glass transition temps of a proper epoxy should be much higher

Edited June 21 by dubbelbogey

[Ger21]

5 hours ago, Pudgelewis said:

I’ve heard the epoxy tales but think you’re the first person I’ve ever heard it actually happening to. 

Because it's not really a thing.

[WristySwing]

As other's have said, the epoxy failed because they were sitting in a trunk, a shed, or hot garage for too long. If your wife gave you the go ahead to get some new clubs, do it. Now you get to have some new clubs, fit to you, and you don't have to worry about the old ones. Just glue them back up and trade them in or sell them privately and be done with it.

[st1800e]

9 hours ago, parmark said:

I think maybe I was out of the official compound epoxy I use and went with a Jen Weld compound for these

JB weld? There’s a wide range of epoxies available from them, whatever you used looks like this might be the root cause of the atypical problem you experienced.  
 

Some swear by their non golf specific epoxy, but I and many other stick to specific products intended for the purpose.  (Pun intended😀). 

[denkea]

11 hours ago, Jc0 said:

which will break down some epoxies.

Of which those epoxies should never be used for club work.

 

[denkea]

1 hour ago, WristySwing said:

the epoxy failed because they were sitting in a trunk, a shed, or hot garage for too long.

If the heat in those places caused the failure then the epoxy used was the wrong one.

[dffjunior]

It might be process.  For multiple errors from one run it sounds like a bad epoxy batch - could be that the 2 part wasn't properly balanced?  Or was it an older supply?  I use Golfworks 2 part and have never had a failure - done about 200 shafts in the past couple of years.

[parmark]

Just to clarify, this was operator error. I put these clubs together myself.  And they DON'T ever sit in my car, I always bring them inside after playing.

 

What's the real kick in the butt here is that I played with them Thursday - now I'll admit I"m not the longest hitter, but for approaching 70 next month I hold my own.  But to have them ALL become loose like that at the same time!?

 

I know they were probably loose before hand. But I do hit the range every morning before I play.

 

To answer Pudge, I am leaning going for the new set. I keep waffling back and forth -I only need 7-PW - and I made a fitting appointment for Wednesday afternoon, Club Champion in suburban Chicago. I got my driver there, and I know 10-12 guys who have visited there, and in all instances they come away pleased with results, as was I.  

 

My Tour Edge 220h iron set worked great today though.   So we'll see how this turns out.

[JimmyC59]

Just my two cents. I use the Golfworks 24 hour epoxy and I mix by weight, not volume. I have never had a failure.

[st1800e]

2 hours ago, parmark said:

this was operator error.

Curious, what was the error? 

[WristySwing]

11 hours ago, parmark said:

Just to clarify, this was operator error. I put these clubs together myself.  And they DON'T ever sit in my car, I always bring them inside after playing.

 

What's the real kick in the butt here is that I played with them Thursday - now I'll admit I"m not the longest hitter, but for approaching 70 next month I hold my own.  But to have them ALL become loose like that at the same time!?

 

I know they were probably loose before hand. But I do hit the range every morning before I play.

 

To answer Pudge, I am leaning going for the new set. I keep waffling back and forth -I only need 7-PW - and I made a fitting appointment for Wednesday afternoon, Club Champion in suburban Chicago. I got my driver there, and I know 10-12 guys who have visited there, and in all instances they come away pleased with results, as was I.  

 

My Tour Edge 220h iron set worked great today though.   So we'll see how this turns out.

 

I re-read your story and I think I am getting more confused than I was at the beginning. Just to clarify, you glued these clubs a year ago or more and they withstood 70 rounds (or more) of use with no issue. You don't have them in a hot garage, attic, or car, and they just suddenly weakened? All of them? I had that happen to me once on a Nike SW in like 2008 but I had used it for 4 seasons or so (or more). If these details are correct and I am not missing something it seems strange that they would all fail at the exact same time seemingly out of the blue.

[Socrates]

15 hours ago, JimmyC59 said:

Just my two cents. I use the Golfworks 24 hour epoxy and I mix by weight, not volume. I have never had a failure.

As long as you know the weight per volume for A and B as quite often they are not the same.

[JimmyC59]

30 minutes ago, Socrates said:

As long as you know the weight per volume for A and B as quite often they are not the same.

It's listed on the bottles.

[Socrates]

24 minutes ago, JimmyC59 said:

It's listed on the bottles.

Not all epoxies do that.  I've seen mistakes made where people assume they weigh the same and then problems ensue.

[parmark]

9 hours ago, WristySwing said:

 

I re-read your story and I think I am getting more confused than I was at the beginning. Just to clarify, you glued these clubs a year ago or more and they withstood 70 rounds (or more) of use with no issue. You don't have them in a hot garage, attic, or car, and they just suddenly weakened? All of them? I had that happen to me once on a Nike SW in like 2008 but I had used it for 4 seasons or so (or more). If these details are correct and I am not missing something it seems strange that they would all fail at the exact same time seemingly out of the blue.

Strange indeed.  And true.  That's what baffles me how this could happen like this.

[JimmyC59]

6 hours ago, Socrates said:

Not all epoxies do that.  I've seen mistakes made where people assume they weigh the same and then problems ensue.

Golfworks epoxies have it listed on the label and the 24 hour epoxy I got from Hireko, because it was white/beige, also had the ratio on the label.

[Mark_Tha_Tinkerer]

On 6/20/2025 at 5:37 PM, parmark said:

I'm still shaking my head.  Like anything else in the world there is some good from all this.  Explained this to the wife, she know's i'm a bit frugal why I make my own clubs to begin with, says go get an early bday present for upcoming 70th and pop for a good set!!!  

 

But honestly I can't understand this at all. 

When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."  Sherlock Holmes

 

Here's what happened:  When you went to sleep, your wife (probably much younger than yourself), applied a propane torch to your hosels to loosen the heads up without you knowing as part of a devious plan to make you look like you are suffering from dementia.  When you buy new clubs (at her insistence and totally at odds with your historical frugal behavior), if you use a check, it will bounce.  If you use a credit card, it will be declined as a fraudulent charge.  You will flip out wondering why all this is happening to you.  

 

If I were you, I'd strongly consider preparing my own meals from here on out. 

 

 

[ErichZF]

Use DP420 from 3M.  It takes a lot of heat to breakdown the epoxy.

[driveandputtmachine]

I have been assembling my own clubs full time since getting a run down from Dana Upshaw when he fit me back in 2004.  He went through everything from hosel prep to shaft prep to cleaning before epoxy, to types of epoxy to use, to cure times and break down times.

 

I only use purpose built as I would imagine they are better suited since as there is a lot of twisting, versus general use epoxy.  Dana tended to always use Bramptons from what I remember and I have done the same other than using a golfworks 24 hour a couple of times and one set with quick cure GW, more on that below.

 

I leave my clubs in my cars(Tahoe, Silverado, Explorer, Pilot, 4Runner) almost exclusively since I started building my clubs.  It gets pretty hot in Atlanta, and the ONLY club I have ever had fail (shaft twisted) was in a Ping and I think I got fast and with their shallow iron insertion that was the culprit(G410 4 iron).  I also was out of Bramptons and used a fast set other brand and probably didn't clean it properly and it was assembled in April and failed in late April, not exactly scorching months in Atlanta.  I have also played exclusively graphite in my irons since 2010(wrist surgery) and Recoil F5's, to Axioms to now MMT and still all those years I have never had a failure other than the one Ping iron.

 

A car can reach, what 140-150* or so during a baking hot summer day?  Many epoxies accelerate curing at 140*.  From what I have read most epoxies won't start to break down until they hit at least 250* fahrenheit and many over 300.  I don't think there is a scenario where a properly prepared hosel and shaft with good epoxy that is fully set will break down in a car.

Edited June 24 by driveandputtmachine

[Stuart_G]

4 hours ago, driveandputtmachine said:

From what I have read most epoxies won't start to break down until they hit at least 250* fahrenheit and many over 300. 

 

No I don't think leaving them in the care is a problem but....

 

Epoxy formulations can certainly get that high but most golf epoxies is between 180* F and 250* F - at least the ones I've worked with are in that range.   Some of the 5 minute epoxy can even be as low as 155*-170* F.   And if you think about it, you don't really want it any higher than about 210*-220*.  The higher the glass temp, the bigger chance you have of destroying graphite shafts when you pull them.  You want the adhesive epoxy glass temp well below that of the epoxies used in the shafts themselves.   Maybe that's what you read about, the break down temp of the epoxies used in the shaft construction?

Edited June 24 by Stuart_G

[st1800e]

Lots of discussion about high temps in the trunk, however…

 

On 6/21/2025 at 5:10 PM, parmark said:

And they DON'T ever sit in my car, I always bring them inside after playing.

So that’s not a factor here, and unlikely the cause even if they’re were stored at high temps.  Looks like it was inappropriate epoxy used, as the OP stated, “operator error”. 
 

On 6/20/2025 at 8:02 PM, parmark said:

I think maybe I was out of the official compound epoxy I use and went with a Jen Weld compound for these,

No idea exactly what he used, but obviously whatever was used was not adequate for the job. 
 

On 6/20/2025 at 7:42 PM, parmark said:

I've already pulled them and prepped and applied Brampton's epoxy.

Case closed.