Player Sweeps Footprints In Bunker Before Shot: Penalty?

Mr. Bean · June 28

42 minutes ago, davep043 said:

But 8.1 deals exclusively with improving your CATS. If you don't improve your CATS, you can break branches, level out the ground, etc. so the only prohibition to leveling sand could be in 12.2b, and using your foot isn't prohibited, unless it improves the CATS.

This is in fact a very interesting issue. CATS includes stance, right? Why do people dig their feet in a bunker? To get a firmer stance, that is, to improve their CATS. Rule 8.1b(6) specifically allows us to improve our CATS, but only a reasonable amount WHEN TAKING OUR STANCE.

No matter how these things are twisted and thrown forward and backward they are interlinked. In Erik's video he was taking stances, in various ways, some rather radical, but still he was taking stances. I did not see any action with a foot to simulate how easily a club would penetrate the sand. I only saw stance taking. I wonder where the line is drawn by USGA people if they say that you can do "almost anything" with your feet. It just does not make any sense that you could deliberately test the condition of a bunker with your feet but not with any other part of your body.

I would very much like to hear what kind of things one is NOT allowed to do with their feet in a bunker when not improving their CATS. Maybe Erik can provide some examples given by USGA.

Edited June 28 by Mr. Bean

davep043 · June 29

2 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

This is in fact a very interesting issue. CATS includes stance, right? Why do people dig their feet in a bunker? To get a firmer stance, that is, to improve their CATS. Rule 8.1b(6) specifically allows us to improve our CATS, but only a reasonable amount WHEN TAKING OUR STANCE.

No matter how these things are twisted and thrown forward and backward they are interlinked. In Erik's video he was taking stances, in various ways, some rather radical, but still he was taking stances. I did not see any action with a foot to simulate how easily a club would penetrate the sand. I only saw stance taking. I wonder where the line is drawn by USGA people if they say that you can do "almost anything" with your feet. It just does not make any sense that you could deliberately test the condition of a bunker with your feet but not with any other part of your body.

I would very much like to hear what kind of things one is NOT allowed to do with their feet in a bunker when not improving their CATS. Maybe Erik can provide some examples given by USGA.

I agree. When I get a chance, I'll post an appropriately worded question to the USGA Facebook page, and maybe send a rules question throutlgh the USGA web page. I'll report back as I get responses.

antip · June 29

Yes, it is an interesting issue. One made so by what, very clearly in my mind, is sub-optimal drafting in Rule 12.2 and there is no clarification of exactly what RBs want.

But I have now found a 2021 USGA ruling (on FB) as follows:

"Q. Player hits his ball into a bunker, before taking his shot his steps into the bunker without a club and standing 2metres from his ball digs his feet in, when asked why, he advises that he’s testing the sand before his shot.

Is this a penalty or not?

It’s been cited that what you do with your feet in a bunker can’t be classed as a penalty- but I can’t find anything official around that.

USGA Response

Great question. You'll note that while hand is specifically called out in the 12.2b(1) bullet, feet are not. In this scenario the player answered the referee question spectacularly wrong leading many to think it must be a breach, however, there was not a breach as testing the sand is limited to deliberately touching the sand with a hand, club, rake or other object to learn information and what you do with your feet is not testing."

So that is clear guidance at least, an objective the book fails to deliver. And my book now has some more red ink in it.

I'll return to one more issue. There was a comment above that a player then is completely free to smooth any footprint anywhere in a bunker with their foot providing it does not improve CATS. That is not entirely correct because the Rule 8.2 wrinkle still exists - if that footprint is being smoothed because the player is concerned it may interfere with a subsequent stroke by the player (or where the ball not yet played may roll to) then it would be a breach of Rule 8.2 - improving "other physical conditions" - unless the player at the time of the action is intending to care for the course.

I think we can put this thread to bed now.

nsxguy · July 6

Youse guys woud've loved what happened today on the PGA Tour.

Tourney leader Roy (yeah, I never heard of him either LOL), had a poor lie in a greenside bunker. Dug his feet in, chunked the shot, and the ball rolled right back in front of the deep footprint he'd just made.

Now to me, it appeared as though the high front edge of the footprint, now roughly 18 inches behind the ball, would interfere with his backswing and I'm thinking he's screwed.

Calls for an official.

Turns out that front edge did NOT interfere with the backswing, the official agreed, and the caddie was allowed to rake the area flat before his next shot out of the bunker.

Watching carefully and being able to see roughly where the footprint was before it was smoothed, it certainly did look like he wouldn't have hit it on his backswing anyway,,,,,,,,, but close call.

LeoLeo99 · July 6

51 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

Youse guys woud've loved what happened today on the PGA Tour.

Tourney leader Roy (yeah, I never heard of him either LOL), had a poor lie in a greenside bunker. Dug his feet in, chunked the shot, and the ball rolled right back in front of the deep footprint he'd just made.

Now to me, it appeared as though the high front edge of the footprint, now roughly 18 inches behind the ball, would interfere with his backswing and I'm thinking he's screwed.

Calls for an official.

Turns out that front edge did NOT interfere with the backswing, the official agreed, and the caddie was allowed to rake the area flat before his next shot out of the bunker.

Watching carefully and being able to see roughly where the footprint was before it was smoothed, it certainly did look like he wouldn't have hit it on his backswing anyway,,,,,,,,, but close call.

I saw that, too, and thought it was a breach. As did the broadcast who checked with the rules official to explain it. Still seemed sketchy to me.

Naptime · July 6

On 6/27/2025 at 5:12 PM, iacas said:

Keep reading. 😄

12.2b(1) is over-ridden by 12.2b(2). That part of the rule reads as if it says "You can't touch the sand with a rake… unless you're caring for the course, BUT you still get the GP if what you're doing affects the CATS."

Also… and this is going to blow people's minds, because it blew mine…

Turns out… you can do just about anything you want with your feet in a bunker.

Everything I did in that video is legal (and the video is from only four years ago, so post-2019 revisions). I verified this with several USGA higher-ups, because I thought no way would that have been legal. But it is.

Basically: you can do virtually anything with your feet in a bunker that doesn't affect the CATS (conditions affecting the stroke - your lie, your area of stance or swing, etc.) and it's not a penalty. (Which is where the OP's situation gets murky — was the smoothing an entirely separate act? Does it fall under the "do whatever you want in a bunker so long as it's with your feet?" [I'm not suggesting you can shove away the sand behind your ball with your feet or anything like that — let's not get silly.] If he had smoothed and made a little practice swing would that have been legal?)

As it relates to our related discussion, @betarhoalphadelta, I could have also raked all of those footprints in my video before playing my shot except those right my ball as the ones near my ball are the only ones that affect the CATS.

Again, as it relates to the OP… it'd come down to IMO whether any smoothing was part of digging in.

If you spent that much time in a bunker, and the time to rake it all, I'd be surprised if the rest of the group had not already holed out by the time you putted. 🙂

sui generis · July 6

21 minutes ago, LeoLeo99 said:

I saw that, too, and thought it was a breach. As did the broadcast who checked with the rules official to explain it. Still seemed sketchy to me.

My money's on the PGA Tour referee knowning his stuff over the La-Z-Boy ref with his Butt Lite. (Not sayin' that's you or Florida man, either.) 😉

Carolina Golfer 2 · July 6

1 hour ago, nsxguy said:

Youse guys woud've loved what happened today on the PGA Tour.

Tourney leader Roy (yeah, I never heard of him either LOL), had a poor lie in a greenside bunker. Dug his feet in, chunked the shot, and the ball rolled right back in front of the deep footprint he'd just made.

Now to me, it appeared as though the high front edge of the footprint, now roughly 18 inches behind the ball, would interfere with his backswing and I'm thinking he's screwed.

Calls for an official.

Turns out that front edge did NOT interfere with the backswing, the official agreed, and the caddie was allowed to rake the area flat before his next shot out of the bunker.

Watching carefully and being able to see roughly where the footprint was before it was smoothed, it certainly did look like he wouldn't have hit it on his backswing anyway,,,,,,,,, but close call.

Yep. Saw that too and I think we were all (including Dottie) shocked he was even asking for it to be raked. But good on him for asking and getting the ruling.

Mr. Bean · July 6

4 hours ago, sui generis said:

My money's on the PGA Tour referee knowning his stuff over the La-Z-Boy ref with his Butt Lite. (Not sayin' that's you or Florida man, either.) 😉

I have not seen the case but my question is what was so important for the player to have the footprint raked if it did not interfere with his play?

Sounds rather fishy to me...

Nickb333 · July 6

The rules are clear and easy to understand.

iacas · July 6

2 hours ago, Nickb333 said:

The rules are clear and easy to understand.

I know this is your schtick, but "You can do just about anything in the bunker with your feet as long as it doesn't affect the CATS" is pretty simple.

Also… I'd love to see you write a better rule that doesn't fundamentally change it.

Nickb333 · July 6

4 hours ago, iacas said:

I know this is your schtick, but "You can do just about anything in the bunker with your feet as long as it doesn't affect the CATS" is pretty simple.

Also… I'd love to see you write a better rule that doesn't fundamentally change it.

I wasn’t one of the people arguing about this issue. It was clear to me.

Mr. Bean · July 6

5 hours ago, iacas said:

I know this is your schtick, but "You can do just about anything in the bunker with your feet as long as it doesn't affect the CATS" is pretty simple.

Also… I'd love to see you write a better rule that doesn't fundamentally change it.

Would you care to answer my question in my previous post instead of laying down futile challenges..?

What was so important for Roy to have sand raked if it did not benefit him in any way?

iacas · July 6

1 hour ago, Mr. Bean said:

Would you care to answer my question in my previous post instead of laying down futile challenges..?

What was so important for Roy to have sand raked if it did not benefit him in any way?

No, thanks, as I think you're confused again. I didn't see the Roy thing and I didn't post about it.

LeoLeo99 · July 6

15 hours ago, sui generis said:

My money's on the PGA Tour referee knowning his stuff over the La-Z-Boy ref with his Butt Lite. (Not sayin' that's you or Florida man, either.) 😉

Let me ask then. Your ball is in a bunker. Your ball is adjacent to footprints that don't interfere with your ball. You can rake those footprints?

Here is the first shot. A caddie was allowed to rake the footprints prior to his second shot. https://youtube.com/shorts/sh_yHFWf1p8?si=mCeO4B_qzaKCHuEM

This article gives an explanation.

https://www.golfmonthly.com/news/kevin-roy-bunker-ruling-john-deere-classic

Edited July 6 by LeoLeo99

iacas · July 6

Seems that this is a pretty simple one: the ball wasn't as close to the footprint as it appeared, and thus, raking it didn't affect his CATS.

sui generis · July 6

2 hours ago, LeoLeo99 said:

Let me ask then. Your ball is in a bunker. Your ball is adjacent to footprints that don't interfere with your ball. You can rake those footprints?

Here is the first shot. A caddie was allowed to rake the footprints prior to his second shot. https://youtube.com/shorts/sh_yHFWf1p8?si=mCeO4B_qzaKCHuEM

This article gives an explanation.

https://www.golfmonthly.com/news/kevin-roy-bunker-ruling-john-deere-classic

I can "care for the course" and I cannot affect CATS. 😀

LeoLeo99 · July 6

56 minutes ago, sui generis said:

I can "care for the course" and I cannot affect CATS. 😀

I usually care for the course after I've hit my shot to avoid any hint of sketchiness.

sui generis · July 6

2 minutes ago, LeoLeo99 said:

I usually care for the course after I've hit my shot to avoid any hint of sketchiness.

Sure, that's appreciated, too. But if the rake's over there and the last guy's foot are somewhere else, I'm happy to "care for the course" in the most efficient way.

There is always the "avoid the appearance of evil" in one's actions on the course, but perhaps here's where knowing the Rules can help. 😀

davep043 · July 6

10 minutes ago, LeoLeo99 said:

I usually care for the course after I've hit my shot to avoid any hint of sketchiness.

I think many of us take special care, primarily to avoid being accused of something by a Player who doesn't really know the rules.

sui generis · July 6

3 minutes ago, davep043 said:

I think many of us take special care, primarily to avoid being accused of something by a Player who doesn't really know the rules.

Ha, ha. I might say, "You could be right. Would you show me the Rule." 😉

davep043 · July 6

6 minutes ago, sui generis said:

Ha, ha. I might say, "You could be right. Would you show me the Rule." 😉

I would say the same, might even give them a hint about where to look.

Mr. Bean · July 7

6 hours ago, sui generis said:

Sure, that's appreciated, too. But if the rake's over there and the last guy's foot are somewhere else, I'm happy to "care for the course" in the most efficient way.

There is always the "avoid the appearance of evil" in one's actions on the course, but perhaps here's where knowing the Rules can help. 😀

There is no doubt that the Rules allow you to rake the bunker for the care of the course as long as you do not affect your CATS. But let me ask again: what was so important for Roy to rake those footprints if there was no risk of touching sand with backswing?

In my mind the answer is very obvious and straightforward.

sui generis · July 7

6 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

There is no doubt that the Rules allow you to rake the bunker for the care of the course as long as you do not affect your CATS. But let me ask again: what was so important for Roy to rake those footprints if there was no risk of touching sand with backswing?

In my mind the answer is very obvious and straightforward.

Mr Bean I wasn't on-site for that event so I can't say.

Mr. Bean · July 8

17 hours ago, sui generis said:

Mr Bean I wasn't on-site for that event so I can't say.

C'mon, Sui! You have taken a stand on many cases in the past and you have not been on-site.

As a referee I would ask the player this question:

- Why do you want to rake the bunker specifically BEFORE you make your next stroke?

I can come up with two different answers the player could have imagined to give as a respond:

1. That unraked footprint distracts me.

2. I am afraid I might touch that mound with my backswing.

Nr 2 is naturally a suicide for the player so he would never say that out loud. Nr 1 is certainly within the limits of the Rules and no doubt is accepted. However, the referee (= myself) would have to be 100% certain that even a careless backswing would not touch the mound.

I hope the referee was 100% certain in Roy's case.

EmperorPenguin · July 14

Sorry, guys, I have been away for a while. I was saying that back in the original scenario, the ball was by some unraked footprints. The lie under the ball was good, but in taking a normal stance the player would have set one of his feet on top of a crest of one of those footprints, which would have raised his foot an inch or so. In the shrewd act of digging in his foot, the golfer has lowered his raised foot to a more level position, hence improving his CATS ("meow!") and improving his stance, thus his opponent has a legitimate reason to call penalty.

"Did you dig your foot in to level your stance?"

"Yes, but I'm allowed to dig in my foot to test conditions."

"Yes, but you cannot improve your stance."

"What do you mean? So in this case I cannot dig in my feet at all?"

This is indeed very murky.

iacas · July 14

I don’t think so. He’s entitled to dig in to take his stance.

rogolf · July 14

1 hour ago, EmperorPenguin said:

Sorry, guys, I have been away for a while. I was saying that back in the original scenario, the ball was by some unraked footprints. The lie under the ball was good, but in taking a normal stance the player would have set one of his feet on top of a crest of one of those footprints, which would have raised his foot an inch or so. In the shrewd act of digging in his foot, the golfer has lowered his raised foot to a more level position, hence improving his CATS ("meow!") and improving his stance, thus his opponent has a legitimate reason to call penalty.

"Did you dig your foot in to level your stance?"

"Yes, but I'm allowed to dig in my foot to test conditions."

"Yes, but you cannot improve your stance."

"What do you mean? So in this case I cannot dig in my feet at all?"

This is indeed very murky.

Agree with iacas, no penalty.

A couple things that I note in your post:

- an opponent does not "call penalty". The opponent can make a request for a ruling based on the player's actions, but he cannot "call a penalty"

- player is allowed to dig in with his feet when taking his stance. It's not testing. But the player is not permitted to build a stance, eg, not push sand into place to improve his stance

davep043 · July 14

3 hours ago, EmperorPenguin said:

"Yes, but I'm allowed to dig in my foot to test conditions."

Not this, but this....

"I'm allowed to (5) Firmly place the feet in taking a stance, including a reasonable amount of digging in with the feet in sand or loose soil." Even if doing so tests conditions, even if doing so improves the CATS, digging in is specifically allowed under 8.1b(5) and 12.2b(2).

Player Sweeps Footprints In Bunker Before Shot: Penalty?

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