Phil Mickelson - The Art of Chipping

[MPStrat]

Excellent video. Possibly the best chipping video I’ve seen. A lot of what he discusses is covered in his original DVD from back in the day but he adds some addendums and discusses pitfalls. 
 

 

[sundaypins]

Length requires listening to it in chunks but first 21 minutes is as spot on as can be, and nice seeing active legs.   Hearing top notch players talk about their craft is time well spent.  Will get to the rest later, thanks for sharing.  

[sundaypins]

Rest of video was top of the class material, especially reversing instinct on flops that take off too much by hitting down harder.  

[Mcgeeno]

Is he still going on about that hinge and hold stuff? 

[mshills]

Fantastic video….over an hour with one of the best to ever do it? Yes, please. Enjoyed his dismissal of all the obsession with grinds “….unless you are scratch or better, don’t worry about it….”
 

I especially appreciated the short session on one-arm chipping, was particularly useful for me.  😁

[Hawkeye77]

2 minutes ago, mshills said:

Fantastic video….over an hour with one of the best to ever do it? Yes, please. Enjoyed his dismissal of all the obsession with grinds “….unless you are scratch or better, don’t worry about it….”
 

I especially appreciated the short session on one-arm chipping, was particularly useful for me.  😁

Haven’t watched, if something he says works for someone then it’s helpful. 
 

But not being a scratch golfer and having been fit for wedges a few times and trying different grinds and very much needling and understanding the differences, his statement is a little ignorant.  

[RayPlan]

5 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

But not being a scratch golfer and having been fit for wedges a few times and trying different grinds and very much needling and understanding the differences, his statement is a little ignorant.  

He clearly meant that statement for everyone except you, specifically. If you can get your wedges dialed in, you'll be scratch in no time.

[Hawkeye77]

Just now, RayPlan said:

He clearly meant that statement for everyone except you, specifically. If you can get your wedges dialed in, you'll be scratch in no time.

 

I assume Phil was quoted accurately - the statement was ignorant.

 

If you have something to contribute about wedge fitting or how grinds work for a variety of players then by all means do so.

 

 

[mshills]

This doesn’t need to turn into another argument y’all. Good grief, if you disagree, just disagree and let it go, no need to try to convince me (you won’t.)

[Hawkeye77]

11 minutes ago, mshills said:

This doesn’t need to turn into another argument y’all. Good grief, if you disagree, just disagree and let it go, no need to try to convince me (you won’t.)

I'm not arguing with anyone and don't need an admonition, nothing I said warranted the little snarky remark the guy decided to pop off with.  Not trying to convince you of anything, just made a simple observation in response to you quoting Phil about grinds - they matter and not just for Tour pros or scratch or better golfers - nothing too controversial about that. 

 

LOL, if Phil wants to chime in I'll be happy to argue about it with him, however. 😀

Edited July 4 by Hawkeye77

[virtuoso]

In case we weren’t confused enough, I’d say the opposite:the better you are, the less the grind matters. 
 

If a guy is sticking the leading edge into the ground, then a fat wide flange with a big bounce angle can help.

 

A better player would prefer to have a custom bounce/grind/sole width, but can work around it with decent technique adjustments.

[TheDeanAbides]

Does anyone buy this idea Phil talks about regarding never having the ball in the middle of the stance? It seems poorly thought out to me. I like the ball in the middle sometimes - depends what I'm trying to do, the lie, club choice etc. I've never felt like it shows a lack of commitment. 

[TheDeanAbides]

10 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

In case we weren’t confused enough, I’d say the opposite:the better you are, the less the grind matters. 
 

If a guy is sticking the leading edge into the ground, then a fat wide flange with a big bounce angle can help.

 

A better player would prefer to have a custom bounce/grind/sole width, but can work around it with decent technique adjustments.

100% agree. I haven't watched the entire video, but I would like to think that Phil meant that there are other things to consider before grind? A little like that guy yesterday who was hung up on a draw or fade setup when his pelvis was channeling Elvis. 

[Hawkeye77]

15 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

In case we weren’t confused enough, I’d say the opposite:the better you are, the less the grind matters. 
 

If a guy is sticking the leading edge into the ground, then a fat wide flange with a big bounce angle can help.

 

A better player would prefer to have a custom bounce/grind/sole width, but can work around it with decent technique adjustments.

 

I'd take it a different direction and suggest grind doesn't matter much if you are a world class chipper who advocates holding shaft lean, coming in steep, exposing the leading edge to a ball off the back foot and make ball first contact 99.9% of the time. Not a recipe for success for the average golfer, IMO.  

 

Most of us, as you may be suggesting, can use a little margin for error, and grinds that complement our techniques. 

 

 

Edited July 4 by Hawkeye77

[Hawkeye77]

Just now, TheDeanAbides said:

100% agree. I haven't watched the entire video, but I would like to think that Phil meant that there are other things to consider before grind? A little like that guy yesterday who was hung up on a draw or fade setup when his pelvis was channeling Elvis. 

 

Made the mistake of watching that bit and no, he doesn't say or mean there are other things to consider first and spent a lot of time conflating bounce and grind - more than a little confusing.  

 

Works for him, he's one of the best ever.  

[TheDeanAbides]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

Made the mistake of watching that bit and no, he doesn't say or mean there are other things to consider first and spent a lot of time conflating bounce and grind - more than a little confusing.  

 

Works for him, he's one of the best ever.  

I guess it's like everything then: we develop discernment and take or leave was does or doesn't work for us. 

 

 

[mshills]

I’m sorry I brought that up. My bad. 
 

The takeaways from the hour long video should be everything EXCEPT the throwaway comments Phil made about wedge grinds. 

[Hawkeye77]

Just now, mshills said:

I’m sorry I brought that up. My bad. 
 

The takeaways from the hour long video should be everything EXCEPT the throwaway comments Phil made about wedge grinds. 

 

We're arguing about those now! 😀

 

Phil's expositions on his technique have always been a bit polarizing, but the grind comment was surprising - the rest, I'll leave to others.

 

I still maintain as always, if something resonates that's what someone should try or do.

 

No idea what he says about one arm chipping and very much aware how that may resonate for you (and so happy you are still golfing) but, and it may or may not be related, my swing has regressed beyond belief after essentially a year off with an injury (fully recovered, nothing serious in the grand scheme) and at Monte's Chicago clinic the best swings of mine for keeping things synced up, not having my arms late, not having first move back being terrible, good looking impact were ...... left hand only swings - just took another look at the videos, sigh.  

[iacas]

35 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Does anyone buy this idea Phil talks about regarding never having the ball in the middle of the stance? It seems poorly thought out to me. I like the ball in the middle sometimes - depends what I'm trying to do, the lie, club choice etc. I've never felt like it shows a lack of commitment. 

 

Yeah, I bumped on that, and that bit didn't make sense to me. Especially when he then talked about having the ball back but opening up the face…

 

The video also continues to ignore that "hinge" puts the club NOT in a straight line with his lead (right) arm, but he talks about "hold" as holding the club in a straight line. Just simple geometry he misses out on in favor of his "hinge and hold" feel.

 

I've not watched all of it. 22:29 in right now. Might be awhile.

[ThinkingPlus]

Are y'all really sure anything Phil says is worth taking at face value given his recent track record... 😉

Edited July 4 by ThinkingPlus
Fixing emoji...

[sundaypins]

58 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Does anyone buy this idea Phil talks about regarding never having the ball in the middle of the stance? It seems poorly thought out to me. I like the ball in the middle sometimes - depends what I'm trying to do, the lie, club choice etc. I've never felt like it shows a lack of commitment. 

 

Inside of 30 yards, like he said, makes perfect sense and well thought out.   From such a short distance loft or run is the basic decision variable.   

[stryper]

3 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Are y'all really sure anything Phil says is worth taking at face value given his recent track record... 😉

Yes, despite the fact that he’s an aging golfer, I’d be willing to wager (Phil would appreciate that) he’s still better than pretty much everyone here. 🤔

[Hawkeye77]

Just now, stryper said:

Yes, despite the fact that he’s an aging golfer, I’d be willing to wager (Phil would appreciate that) he’s still better than pretty much everyone here. 🤔

 

No way! 🙃

[getitdaily]

11 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Are y'all really sure anything Phil says is worth taking at face value given his recent track record... 😉

Agree. Phil never says whether chipping greatness is a TRAIT OR something attained through hard work...

[ThinkingPlus]

31 minutes ago, stryper said:

Yes, despite the fact that he’s an aging golfer, I’d be willing to wager (Phil would appreciate that) he’s still better than pretty much everyone here. 🤔

Sure. His skills aren't in question. His motivation for making the video might be. 

 

In general I don't pay much attention to touring pros telling me how they do things. They are typically telling you what they feel and it is rare they know what they actually do. Their feels might be beneficial or not. However, measured data and video of what they actually do is gold.

[TheDeanAbides]

47 minutes ago, sundaypins said:

 

Inside of 30 yards, like he said, makes perfect sense and well thought out.   From such a short distance loft or run is the basic decision variable.   

I'm sure that you meant to say that it makes perfect sense to you

[GoGoErky]

8 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Sure. His skills aren't in question. His motivation for making the video might be. 

 

In general I don't pay much attention to touring pros telling me how they do things. They are typically telling you what they feel and it is rare they know what they actually do. Their feels might be beneficial or not. However, measured data and video of what they actually do is gold.

 Bingo

[dwboston]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

 

Yeah, I bumped on that, and that bit didn't make sense to me. Especially when he then talked about having the ball back but opening up the face…

 

The video also continues to ignore that "hinge" puts the club NOT in a straight line with his lead (right) arm, but he talks about "hold" as holding the club in a straight line. Just simple geometry he misses out on in favor of his "hinge and hold" feel.

 

I've not watched all of it. 22:29 in right now. Might be awhile.

 

Hinge and Hold might be the worst golf branding of all time. He's not "holding" anything. He hinges it back and releases the clubhead as he rotates through, until the club forms a straight line with him lead arm. He's not holding the angle, he's using the bounce, just not letting the clubhead pass his hands.

[dwboston]

2 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Sure. His skills aren't in question. His motivation for making the video might be. 

 

In general I don't pay much attention to touring pros telling me how they do things. They are typically telling you what they feel and it is rare they know what they actually do. Their feels might be beneficial or not. However, measured data and video of what they actually do is gold.

 

He's basically summarizing the short game DVD he made after winning the Masters in 2004.  He's giving it away for free. Why is that motivation questionable?

 

He goes in depth into setup, ball position, and how to play the common short game shots inside 30 yards and how to vary the inputs based on the distance, lie, uphill/downhill/etc.

 

Most amateurs - which is the targer audience here - wouldn't know what to do with "measured data" on a 30 yard pitch. I'm pretty sure he understands the data  - he was working with Pelz at the time of the original DVD and uses a GC Quad in most of his recent videos. I think he explains what he's doing plainly and pretty well. His method may not be for everyone but he's not talking about his feels.

[ThinkingPlus]

11 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I really like Mayo's stuff with VSP. 

I've watched a couple of short Mayo videos. I like his approach in general because it aligns with what I have always tried to do. The steep part and his thumbs down release were new for me. Using the bounce can be a real mixed bag in snarly bermuda so more of a ball first method is appealing given where I play.