Exploring the root problems..

[GGTTH]

Over the last couple of seasons, I’ve dropped my handicap from 16 to around 10 — which was the main goal I set for myself. That’s a big improvement, and I got there through a mix of playing more golf and regular monthly coaching. But if I’m honest, I don’t feel like the progress came from building a better, more reliable swing. It feels like it came from patching things together — applying temporary fixes that worked just long enough to keep me going. Deep down, I never wanted quick fixes, but that’s what I ended up with. And now, even after reaching my target, I’m left with the feeling that I still haven’t solved the core problem: my ball striking is inconsistent, and I don’t fully understand why.

 

The coaching last year did help in the short term. There were months where I played well and started to see some improvement — but we never addressed the root issues. We’d jump from one feel or cue to another, trying to spark a short-term result. I even remember asking for a feel just to get through a golf trip. That one didn’t work at all. By the end of it, I realised we weren’t building anything sustainable — just keeping the swing glued together one round at a time. I’ve since stopped lessons, partly because of a big price increase, but also because I wasn’t up for another season of chasing short-term fixes.

 

This year, my ball striking has completely tailed off. It started okay, but it’s been getting worse. I’m hitting all over the face — toe, heel, top, bottom — and I can’t hit a straight shot on demand. Low point control doesn't really exist and face control is reliant on timing and flipping - but I feel there's something that causes those problems. I can manipulate shape if I need to, but I’m not in control of the clubface or the strike. I’ve included some swing videos in this post to show where I’m currently at. I know how to manage a round and scrape it around with what I’ve got, but I also know that if the strike doesn’t improve, I’m not going to move forward from here. There’s been a lingering thought in the back of my mind for a long time — maybe I don’t pivot or turn properly in the backswing. No coach has really tackled that with me, but I’ve never shaken the idea. Maybe it’s the root issue. Maybe it’s not. But I need to know. And that leads to the big questions I’m now trying to answer:

 

• What is actually causing the inconsistent ball striking? What’s the root cause?
• Is it fixable — and what will it take to fix, in terms of time, money, and effort?
• What swing faults are symptoms of that, and what isn’t?
• Am I physically and mentally capable of making that kind of change?
• Is this a road I really want to go down, knowing how much it might demand?

 

There are going to be of course more questions once I find this out but as a starting point I want to understand what’s wrong, what needs to change, and assess whether I am quite happy just playing mid handicap golf and chasing temporary feels or do I really want to kick on and be the best player I can be and set lofty goals of getting to scratch and flirting with under par rounds etc? I probably would need lessons/coaching for that of course and if that's the road I decide to go down then I will hopefully find one that aligns with me rather than sticking band aids. But first and most importantly - I need to understand before I commit to it because if I don't understand then there's no point I feel. Videos below of driver and 7 iron.

 

 

[TheDeanAbides]

Start with your grip - especially the left hand. It's weak and palmy, and I can't believe your teacher didn't fix it. 

 

Also your setup is off. Hands too far forward with the press, shoulders open to hips and feet, legs a bit straight and stiff, and your chin it too tucked. 

 

 

 

Work on these first because they're the foundations. Then we can see what else happens. 

[iacas]

I agree with the grip (and setup, though if I was to record that video again it'd be a bit more forward in my feet — the hazards of standing and filming), and… I hope you're left eye dominant.

 

Fix those things and then see what shakes out, and then find your new priority.

[GGTTH]

37 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Start with your grip - especially the left hand. It's weak and palmy, and I can't believe your teacher didn't fix it. 

 

Also your setup is off. Hands too far forward with the press, shoulders open to hips and feet, legs a bit straight and stiff, and your chin it too tucked. 

 

 

 

Work on these first because they're the foundations. Then we can see what else happens. 

 

30 minutes ago, iacas said:

I agree with the grip (and setup, though if I was to record that video again it'd be a bit more forward in my feet — the hazards of standing and filming), and… I hope you're left eye dominant.

 

Fix those things and then see what shakes out, and then find your new priority.

 

Thanks both. I will watch the videos. Regarding the coach not fixing my grip - it was never looked at once seriously, there was one 'quick fix' he gave me where he had me turning my lead arm inwards so the elbow was pointing straight ahead and I hit the ball straightish for the session then it fell apart again. In terms of how I grip it, with my lead hand I do put it in the fingers but just checking there I've noticed it moves in the backswing ever so slightly into the base joints  - so although I think my intention is right I'm obviously not doing it right. 

 

These things seem pretty easy to start with and easy to grasp and @iacas (assuming that's your videos) explains it pretty well and relatable. I'll give this a go and see what the lay of the land is after that.

 

I am very right sided dominant (eye, hand, foot). 

[iacas]

17 minutes ago, GGTTH said:

I am very right sided dominant (eye, hand, foot). 

 

Keep that in mind… as I don't think you can see the golf ball with your right eye at the top.

 

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

 

Keep that in mind… as I don't think you can see the golf ball with your right eye at the top.

 

How would you fix that? More bend at address? Chin up higher at address? Less hip turn?

[TheDeanAbides]

6 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

How would you fix that? More bend at address? Chin up higher at address? Less hip turn?

You stop turning your head and learn to pivot correctly. 

[Shilgy]

30 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

You stop turning your head and learn to pivot correctly. 

Fair enough!

 

edited to add…but how? Some of what I suggested I would think would be a part of that. How many do you know “learn to pivot correctly” without ever learning what it is they are doing that makes it incorrect?

Edited July 6 by Shilgy

[MonteScheinblum]

32 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Fair enough!

 

edited to add…but how? Some of what I suggested I would think would be a part of that. How many do you know “learn to pivot correctly” without ever learning what it is they are doing that makes it incorrect?

The head turn is an active bad habit movement that affects everything.

 

You have to “Nike Drill” things sometimes.  
 

Look how much it turns early in the backswing.

[joedizzy1978]

4 hours ago, GGTTH said:

Over the last couple of seasons, I’ve dropped my handicap from 16 to around 10 — which was the main goal I set for myself. That’s a big improvement, and I got there through a mix of playing more golf and regular monthly coaching. But if I’m honest, I don’t feel like the progress came from building a better, more reliable swing. It feels like it came from patching things together — applying temporary fixes that worked just long enough to keep me going. Deep down, I never wanted quick fixes, but that’s what I ended up with. And now, even after reaching my target, I’m left with the feeling that I still haven’t solved the core problem: my ball striking is inconsistent, and I don’t fully understand why.

 

The coaching last year did help in the short term. There were months where I played well and started to see some improvement — but we never addressed the root issues. We’d jump from one feel or cue to another, trying to spark a short-term result. I even remember asking for a feel just to get through a golf trip. That one didn’t work at all. By the end of it, I realised we weren’t building anything sustainable — just keeping the swing glued together one round at a time. I’ve since stopped lessons, partly because of a big price increase, but also because I wasn’t up for another season of chasing short-term fixes.

 

This year, my ball striking has completely tailed off. It started okay, but it’s been getting worse. I’m hitting all over the face — toe, heel, top, bottom — and I can’t hit a straight shot on demand. Low point control doesn't really exist and face control is reliant on timing and flipping - but I feel there's something that causes those problems. I can manipulate shape if I need to, but I’m not in control of the clubface or the strike. I’ve included some swing videos in this post to show where I’m currently at. I know how to manage a round and scrape it around with what I’ve got, but I also know that if the strike doesn’t improve, I’m not going to move forward from here. There’s been a lingering thought in the back of my mind for a long time — maybe I don’t pivot or turn properly in the backswing. No coach has really tackled that with me, but I’ve never shaken the idea. Maybe it’s the root issue. Maybe it’s not. But I need to know. And that leads to the big questions I’m now trying to answer:

 

• What is actually causing the inconsistent ball striking? What’s the root cause?
• Is it fixable — and what will it take to fix, in terms of time, money, and effort?
• What swing faults are symptoms of that, and what isn’t?
• Am I physically and mentally capable of making that kind of change?
• Is this a road I really want to go down, knowing how much it might demand?

 

There are going to be of course more questions once I find this out but as a starting point I want to understand what’s wrong, what needs to change, and assess whether I am quite happy just playing mid handicap golf and chasing temporary feels or do I really want to kick on and be the best player I can be and set lofty goals of getting to scratch and flirting with under par rounds etc? I probably would need lessons/coaching for that of course and if that's the road I decide to go down then I will hopefully find one that aligns with me rather than sticking band aids. But first and most importantly - I need to understand before I commit to it because if I don't understand then there's no point I feel. Videos below of driver and 7 iron.

 

 

Hypothetical:  lets say someone understands the root causes, can effectively communicate them to you and provide a game plan for implementation……what are you prepared to endure, change, with regard to how you approached things in the past?  Understanding is one thing, being a good student is quite a different matter.  In my opinion, you are the root cause even if good help comes forward.  

[virtuoso]

13 minutes ago, joedizzy1978 said:

Hypothetical:  lets say someone understands the root causes, can effectively communicate them to you and provide a game plan for implementation……what are you prepared to endure, change, with regard to how you approached things in the past?  Understanding is one thing, being a good student is quite a different matter.  In my opinion, you are the root cause even if good help comes forward.  

I was just about to come forward, but…..

[joedizzy1978]

1 hour ago, virtuoso said:

I was just about to come forward, but…..

Youre more than welcome to an opinion, so please do.  If my posts dont result in some opposition from time to time, probably playing it too safe.  No instructor spends 24/7 with a student so the environment isnt one thats controlled.  Instructors with enough experience understand that good information and game planning has its limitations.  It’s simple to say you want something if you lack the understanding/foresight of what it will take.  There’s underlying reasons OP paid and settled for quick fixes despite wanting long term solutions.   

 

Some items with regard to “what will it take?”

 

Videoing every practice session and having the discipline to focus on the first item within the game plan formulated by the instructor.  Having the ability to avoid being distracted by items OP sees in videos that seem to be obvious areas that deserve his attention.   

 

Paying for lessons to supervise the changes with the understanding that new information will not be introduced.

 

Understanding that no coach has the ability to predict things with regard to time.  As such, OP needs to have an open time table for how long things will take to implement, become comfortable, no longer need his full attention.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 7 by joedizzy1978

[sundaypins]

3 hours ago, Shilgy said:

How would you fix that? More bend at address? Chin up higher at address? Less hip turn?

 

Maybe wearing an eye patch over the left eye might help bring about the other ideas too.    Make him blind so he can see. 

[virtuoso]

53 minutes ago, joedizzy1978 said:

Youre more than welcome to an opinion, so please do.  If my posts dont result in some opposition from time to time, probably playing it too safe.  No instructor spends 24/7 with a student so the environment isnt one thats controlled.  Instructors with enough experience understand that good information and game planning has its limitations.  It’s simple to say you want something if you lack the understanding/foresight of what it will take.  There’s underlying reasons OP paid and settled for quick fixes despite wanting long term solutions.   

It was a joke about me being “good help.” I’ve ruined more people than I’ve helped.

 

[RayPlan]

51 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

It was a joke about me being “good help.” I’ve ruined more people than I’ve helped.

Well, that wasn't totally your fault. You've probably also had loads of terrible students. 

 

And now you're doing your penance, so it will balance out. Probably.

Edited July 7 by RayPlan

[virtuoso]

17 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

Well, that wasn't totally your fault. You've probably also had loads of terrible students. 

 

And now you're doing your penance, so it will balance out. Probably.

No, it was my fault. One guy told me that the golf course was the one place he found peace in his soul—his only escape from the drudgery and stress of his professional life….he could be a kid again, with no cynicism, and where anything was possible. He said I robbed him of all of that…..right before he put his clubs on eBay.

 

OP, sorry for the off topic, let me know if you’d like to hear my thoughts on your swing.

[RayPlan]

Joking aside, @GGTTH, if you really want to know, you'll want to listen to @virtuoso. He's a wealth of knowledge and knows how to teach. 

[GGTTH]

7 hours ago, joedizzy1978 said:

Hypothetical:  lets say someone understands the root causes, can effectively communicate them to you and provide a game plan for implementation……what are you prepared to endure, change, with regard to how you approached things in the past?  Understanding is one thing, being a good student is quite a different matter.  In my opinion, you are the root cause even if good help comes forward.  

What a bizarre response.

 

It’s almost like you didn’t read what I said at all

Edited July 7 by GGTTH

[joedizzy1978]

43 minutes ago, GGTTH said:

What a bizarre response.

 

It’s almost like you didn’t read what I said at all

You spoke of lessons you willingly paid for that lacked a long term outlook on success. You say you knew better but also noted a time in which you asked for a temporary fix.  Since you were complicit, it's not out of the realm that you may need to change things about your approach, thoughts, expectations to make your next attempt at improvement successful.  The title of this thread is "exploring the root problems" and it is my opinion that quality mechanical information alone would ignore a significant portion of the underlying issue. 

Edited July 7 by joedizzy1978

[GGTTH]

9 minutes ago, joedizzy1978 said:

You spoke of lessons you willingly paid for that lacked a long term outlook on success. You say you knew better but also noted a time in which you asked for a temporary fix.  Since you were complicit, it's not out of the realm that you may need to change things about your approach, thoughts, expectations to make your next attempt at improvement successful.  The title of this thread is "exploring the root problems" and it is my opinion that quality mechanical information alone would ignore a significant portion of the underlying issue. 

You’re still not getting it. I never blamed anyone or dodged responsibility. I shared an honest reflection about my swing progress and what I would want to do differently going forward, should I choose to do that. That’s it.

 

If your only takeaway is to lecture me about mindset and accountability — when I never asked for or hinted at either — then we’re clearly having two different conversations.

 

I’ll leave it there. No interest in arguing a point I never made.

Edited July 7 by GGTTH

[PedronNiall]

9 hours ago, GGTTH said:

You’re still not getting it. I never blamed anyone or dodged responsibility. I shared an honest reflection about my swing progress and what I would want to do differently going forward, should I choose to do that. That’s it.

 

Your outlook is good. A common occurrence here is people realizing one way or another they didn't handle lessons in the best way to get improvement the first go round. You now have a much better idea of what to expect when you dive in again in the future.

 

The good news is you've had two very informed instructors give reinforcement to the initial response that you can address some straightforward issues in your grip, setup, and keeping your head from turning away during the backswing to get going in the right direction again. Going to work on those three things will give some very big returns on getting better results if you work on them daily, and you can do so for all of them at home in the mirror or on video.

[joedizzy1978]

10 hours ago, GGTTH said:

You’re still not getting it. I never blamed anyone or dodged responsibility. I shared an honest reflection about my swing progress and what I would want to do differently going forward, should I choose to do that. That’s it.

 

If your only takeaway is to lecture me about mindset and accountability — when I never asked for or hinted at either — then we’re clearly having two different conversations.

 

I’ll leave it there. No interest in arguing a point I never made.

No matter how good the information, you'll likely face some type of adversity when attempting to implement it in your swing.  How you respond to that adversity will often make the difference.  With a history of jumping from item to item for sake of immediate results, my point is that you may need to resolve why you gravitated towards that and were ok with it, despite knowing better.

 

Take for example your post in November of 2024, where you talk of a lesson where your coach prescribed a grip change....and the unbelievable results that occurred after its implementation:

 

 

"The results from this stronger lead hand were amazing. I was hitting baby draws everywhere, I gained clubhead speed, I struck the ball better, my low point control was good averaging 3-4 after the ball. I gained distance presumably because of the increase in clubhead speed and strike. Club path was consistently between 1-3 in to out. We did some approach shot testing on Trackman and I hit every green asked of me. I've been playing and practicing with this and and my approach play on Arccos has improved by 2.0 strokes. "

 

 

At some point, you faced adversity and decided to work away from it as your current grip is much different than described.  This will likely occur again with sound mechanical information worth long time investment. You did ask if you are physically and mentally capable of long term positive changes so I feel my response is within the boundaries you set. Im not rooting against you, and hope you the best in your future attempts. I obviously see we are not communicating on the same wavelength and will leave it at that. Cheers!

Edited July 7 by joedizzy1978

[GGTTH]

Okay so I've watched the video on gripping on repeat basically and I think I have got it. It feels very weird but the clubface seems more stable in the fingers. I will keep practicing and referencing the video for feedback for a bit, before moving on to the set up. The bit about curling or wrapping your hand over the top made a lot of sense to me.

Edited July 8 by GGTTH

[sundaypins]

26 minutes ago, GGTTH said:

The bit about curling or wrapping your hand over the top made a lot of sense to me.

 

But be mindful because 'wrapping' can get dicey real quick from rotation so be cautious.  Our arms naturally drape by our side and we are better off going straight down on top of the handle.    On a fixed handle suitcase adjacent to your lead thigh you have two basic options to fetch it- go from underneath with your fingers and wrap a little,  or drop straight down upon the handle using your natural arm drape.  

 

 

 

 

 

[Valtiel]

@GGTTH Unfortunately pretty much everything I tried to note back in this thread is still applicable. You're doing WAY too much in way too many places and not nearly enough in others and as a result are very far out of balance. 

1) Ball position at address is too far back across the board. It's close to the middle of your stance with the driver and back of center with your 7i. If everything went correctly you'd hit nothing but worm burners from here. 
2) You over-rotate like *crazy*. You're in excess of 160* of shoulder rotation with the driver and your hips never have a chance of getting where they need to be in the downswing because you're turning them almost 90*
3) You don't set your wrists *at all* until the very end of the swing. You have a full 90* of shoulder rotation and 45* of hip rotation before you've done *anything* with your hands:



You're basically halfway up your backswing with as much rotation as the average pro but with no wrist set at all. As a result your arms end up trailing your body by miles in the downswing and you're forced to flip aggressively at impact:



More than anything else this is a case of "you need to learn to swing small before you can swing at all" because these are basically the same issues as 2+ years ago. Almost all of this is bad, sorry to say. You're closer to requiring almost everything to be flipped 180* from where it is now. If I told you feel no shoulder turn, no hip turn, and all wrist hinge you'd probably be closer to a decent swing. This btw is how I interpret where @MonteScheinblum's No Turn Cast concept came from; guys like you trying to do so much and going way out of bounds as a result. 

Edited July 8 by Valtiel

[Shilgy]

On 7/6/2025 at 4:39 PM, sundaypins said:

 

Maybe wearing an eye patch over the left eye might help bring about the other ideas too.    Make him blind so he can see. 

I was interested in answers because I have a similar tendency.  Or did.😎

 

It’s still a work in progress but by taking @MonteScheinblum advice and “just doing it” I’m keeping the head still ….which keeps my swing shorter and more centered.  74 today with two doubles so getting close.

[sundaypins]

9 hours ago, Shilgy said:

I was interested in answers because I have a similar tendency.  Or did.😎

 

It’s still a work in progress but by taking @MonteScheinblum advice and “just doing it” I’m keeping the head still ….which keeps my swing shorter and more centered.  74 today with two doubles so getting close.

 

Good, nice playing too.   Finding center is better still. 😉

[GGTTH]

I have been playing and practicing with the grip as per the video @TheDeanAbides @iacas. That alone has actually improved contact a bit which is interesting. I have switched to interlock for this - it feels a little weird as you'd expect I guess but it's easy to implement. I actually played two rounds with it and scored fairly well -  79 and 83 at a tougher course, both score differentials of around 8-11 which is roughly where my handicap is these days. The weird thing is that 83 came with an astronomical amount of putts, which is unusual for me as putting is a strength - I think I counted 40 putts for crying out loud - so a bad day at the office in that dept, usually average around 30-33, so what could have been scoring wise. I actually think even just focusing on stuff has helped me tremendously already  instead of aimlessly searching.

 

The ball flight starts left and draws now, there is no fade/cut at all. I wouldn't necessarily say it's a big hook, it's just a little draw/hook but it's not starting in the right direction so it's a little offline. Low point still sucks which tells me there's not much compression sometimes so I must of course still be flipping which I guess you would expect.

 

Going to work on the set-up stuff this week, including ball position, the wrist hinge and trying to keep the head on the ball. It almost feels like the head comes off and away because it has to do that for me to get the 'over' rotation. I will get some fresh videos after I've done this work and see where things are but it's nice that even just with a little focus that it has instantly improved my scoring, just shows what can be done when you are not aimlessly searching around.

 

Appreciate the comments @Valtiel and I understand what you mean but years of doing this is going to be hard to switch. But if I want to keep exploring becoming a ball striker and getting as low as I can then needs must.