confused about a custom build I am looking to order and the specs from fitting

[dubg]

I am not sure if I should add all my confusion for this full build into this post.... 

lets start with, I got fit 2 years ago for irons. fitter had me 2.5 degrees upright. this last fitting I had the fitter has me .25 degrees flat 4i-9i, then .5 flat in PW, then 1.25 flat in wedges (50/56/60). I have heard wedges flatter than irons before.... more confused about being .25 degrees flat 4-9 coming from 2.5 upright. I am an 8 handicap currently if that matters, I stand closer to the ball than a lot of people and am a good ball striker when I do so, that would lead me to believe I should be at least a touch upright. so lie angle has me a bit confused. 

 

now loft progression. fitter has me 1 degree strong 4 and 5 iron, 2 degrees strong 6,7,8 iron. 1 degree strong 9 iron. standard loft PW at 47 degrees. the progression of loft is confusing to me as well and he didn't really give me a reason why it is such so maybe if someone has knowledge on this, maybe there's a concept I am missing here. that would leave a 5 degree gap from 8-9-PW rather than 4. maybe its not a big deal but this is my dream set of irons and i know I am overthinking a little bit but im also just confused on the "why" this spec sheet looks the way it does.

im thinking loft wise im going to change these specs to just be 1 degree strong through the whole set to keep a consistent progression and that will also help me not have to bend a gap wedge to fit loft progression.

 

lastly I will ask about shafts. DG TI x100 4i-PW. now the question comes if I should keep those shafts through wedges or just go with s400 from GW-LW. also 36" 9iron 35.75" PW, should I get all my next 3 wedges to be 35.5" keep going in a quarter inch progression to lob wedge? I like the idea of having my last 3 wedges the same length for comfort in set up.... but I also have never gotten to test something like that so Im not sure if that's a smart move. 

 

I know some of this has been discussed, I also know a lot of golf spec and custom build stuff is personal preference like using a softer shaft in wedges or using your iron shaft. This is my first set that im truly getting custom built from scratch and being a dream set of irons I want the specs to be right. being an expensive set of P7TW's plus the custom build price on top of it I dont want to make any mistakes when filling out spec sheet for the build. with that being said if there is any insight y'all have and can share I would love to educate myself and gain knowledge on these topics, as well if there is any other information about custom built sets or irons I didn't mention that anyone thinks is important to think about or share I would love to hear more and grow my knowledge in this area.

 

thank you, apologies if this Is a really long annoying post lol 

[RogerinNewZealand]

Lie Angle Question

Was their any shot pattern eg

All irons went Definitely Left of Target with last set at 2.5 up

 

I would hit Left if 2.5 up

 

Overall the new fitting recommendations is Super Complicated. Way too Super Customised.

Nice Irons🤗

[dubg]

the shot pattern with my current clubs is a baby draw, my miss airs to the left whether that be over draw or pull draw. although I have always naturally drawn the ball and would assume its a face to path and face angle issue on my misses mostly. I do think the 2.5 up lie angle doesnt necessarily help the issue but I am nervous of going back to standard and having the toe dig into the turf which is why Im thinking about going in the middle at 1 degree up instead or 1.25 

[Jeff58]

I don’t know you, and I don’t know your fitter, but…

 

If a fitter proposes the degree of precision you’re seeing, there is the chance that they are to some degree attempting to justify the cost of the fitting and club construction, as you can’t specify that degree of granularity directly from the manufacturer or an online source.

 

It’s at least more normal to build to a more “normal” loft progression initially, and then optimize the individual clubs based on actual performance.

 

If your lies are that different, either you changed your mechanics considerably, or one solution is not optimal. The fitting environment and method of determination can also affect the outcome. A simple way of checking is the sharpie method with the club(s) on your actual playing surface. There’s no way I’d move forward without some sort of secondary assessment at any rate.

[cfmgolf]

I also agree with the previous posts.  This is an extremely sophisticated build, and while you are a good player at an 8, some of these are such nuance builds that I think only a tour player could relate to.  That being said, the lie angle does have me a bit confused, BUT you really need to know your starting point in your old irons compared to the new.  Some OEM's have different specs than others, so going up or down is really a matter of perspective and what is the starting point?  If the fitter was such a stickler on the lie angle, did he bend his fitting heads to match what he was giving you?  What was the result?  Did you hit these better or have a better dispersion than your current set?  What shafts are you playing now that you were fit into 2 years ago?  Would the shaft change make you deliver the club in a different way to account for the lie change?  

 

If these are your dream clubs, and you have this much angst with the fitting, I would recommend going to talk with them again and let them know your concerns.  If they can explain the specs in a way that make you feel more comfortable then proceed.  If they tell you they are "just a better fit" and not explain it, then I would move on to another fitter if possible.

[dubg]

17 minutes ago, cfmgolf said:

I also agree with the previous posts.  This is an extremely sophisticated build, and while you are a good player at an 8, some of these are such nuance builds that I think only a tour player could relate to.  That being said, the lie angle does have me a bit confused, BUT you really need to know your starting point in your old irons compared to the new.  Some OEM's have different specs than others, so going up or down is really a matter of perspective and what is the starting point?  If the fitter was such a stickler on the lie angle, did he bend his fitting heads to match what he was giving you?  What was the result?  Did you hit these better or have a better dispersion than your current set?  What shafts are you playing now that you were fit into 2 years ago?  Would the shaft change make you deliver the club in a different way to account for the lie change?  

 

If these are your dream clubs, and you have this much angst with the fitting, I would recommend going to talk with them again and let them know your concerns.  If they can explain the specs in a way that make you feel more comfortable then proceed.  If they tell you they are "just a better fit" and not explain it, then I would move on to another fitter if possible.

okay so firstly lets take 4 iron for comparison. stock 4 iron from my current set is 60 degrees in lie. 2 years ago I was fit to a have this 4 iron at 62.5 and the rest of my set follows a .5 lie angle progression. so this is 2.5 degrees upright.

 

so this current fitting the fitter had me .25 degrees flat other than the .5 degree flat PW, which is from standard lies of that set. which essentially means he has me 2.75-3 full degrees flat from where I currently am in my lie angles. 

 

okay now this current fitting confused me a lot so I got 2 more fittings over the course of the past few weeks to see what they say about things. one of the fitters had me .5 degree upright from standard, that set standard 7i is 63 degrees. so essentially has me .5 degrees flat from where I currently am. 

 

then today I had one more fitting because all these differences in lie angles are really frustrating me and this fitter had me 1 degree flat from a standard lie of 63 degrees. which would essentially be 2 degrees flat from where I currently am but still .5 degrees upright from where I am used to if that makes sense. 

 

the P7TW 7 iron is 61.5 degrees stock lie angle. so what I think im going to do is go .5 degrees upright from there which would be .5 degrees flat from 63 in that other fitting I had. im just thinking about splitting the difference because I do stand closer and more upright to the ball but Im also the best version of myself ball striking wise when I keep my hands just a touch lower which essentially cancels out the lie angle being flatter with me standing closer. 

 

you also pointed out shaft. I currently use steel fiber 110 gram shafts and on slow mo videos I can see a lot of droop at my swing speed of 93mph 7iron. in my opinion the droop at impact is also a reason I was 2.5 degrees upright. I think it was less about set up or fundamentals during the swing and more so to counterbalance the toe down at impact.

so these new shafts I got fit into are DG TI x100's and It feels like this shaft has counteracted some of the problems of deflection and droop on its own for my swing speed and I dont need to be as upright as I was previous. 

 

this is a long response so my apologies but what im taking from all of this now that I typed it all out is that I was fit into a shaft that worked 2 years ago but wasn't the best shaft for me. im gunna keep the name of the fitter to myself but im sure you all know this fitter who finds an up charge shaft that works fine but isn't the "best" fit just for the extra cash in their account. I have learned my lesson and will not be ordering clubs from unsaid place. 

 

 

 

this leads me to wonder where I can order custom built clubs that have really tight tolerances for the build rather than ordering though the OEM and having to pay $5-$10 a club to get lie and loft checked and adjusted where needed. any ideas?

[dubg]

2 hours ago, Jeff58 said:

I don’t know you, and I don’t know your fitter, but…

 

If a fitter proposes the degree of precision you’re seeing, there is the chance that they are to some degree attempting to justify the cost of the fitting and club construction, as you can’t specify that degree of granularity directly from the manufacturer or an online source.

 

It’s at least more normal to build to a more “normal” loft progression initially, and then optimize the individual clubs based on actual performance.

 

If your lies are that different, either you changed your mechanics considerably, or one solution is not optimal. The fitting environment and method of determination can also affect the outcome. A simple way of checking is the sharpie method with the club(s) on your actual playing surface. There’s no way I’d move forward without some sort of secondary assessment at any rate.

I will for sure be doing the sharpie test whenever I order these clubs. I replied to another comment talking through the whole process of the decision I have come to as far as specs go. last think im stuck on and why I haven't ordered yet... where do I order from? I dont want to order from OEM because their tolerances are pretty s*** from loft/lie to swing weight. so any advice on placing a custom build order? I dont mind spending a few extra bucks to have a solid custom build where im confident in the product I receive. the only place I have really seen is The Peoples Clubs. so that's an option, anywhere else have tight tolerances and quality custom builds?

 

[mjf34g]

In my golfing career in the past I've done a number of fittings with what would be considered "high end" club builder/fitters. I'll just throw my two cents in here.  I have never seen a club spec build so complicated. I don't know where you live or what you're playing capabilities are but this is way over the top. This just appears to be an upsell and a bunch of random numbers and specs to justify an over the top cost. Say Club Champion on steroids.  I think that after spending a large sum of money you're going to find little if any massive performance results vs dollars spent.  Unless of course you have the extra money to burn then go for it. Personally, I'd look for another fitter and get another opinion.  Post here for others who have done fittings in your area. You mentioned Peoples as a builder. I can think of a few more. Find a fitter/builder who deals in OEM heads.  But how committed to this mishmash of specs are you? You're going to spend a lot of money on this build. If they don't perform are going to question those over the top specs?  Is this fitter well known?  Reputation? References? Once again this is JMHO but I'd be very skeptical of this whole "fitting". 

[Jeff58]

17 hours ago, dubg said:

I dont want to order from OEM because their tolerances are pretty s*** from loft/lie to swing weight.

At least in my experience some are very good, and some literally don’t and won’t make any attempt to conform to your requests beyond length.
 

A good answer IMO is to order through a local independent retailer and have them verify and apply the appropriate corrections upon arrival. They make money off the sale, and that’s their value added portion of the transaction. Since some of these specifications need to be set after you first use the clubs, you’ll need such a source anyway.