Heavier Grips and Cutting off 1"

[ScooterMcTavish]

Good afternoon, oh wise club gurus.  I come to you with confusion and seek assistance.

 

My current irons came with a very nice set of Golf Pride MCC standard grips on them.  As someone who hates to waste things, I have left them on all season so far, even though they are too skinny for my very long fingers.  Feels like sticking my hand into a bag of pretzels when gripping the club. 

 

Clubs were also standard L/L/L which is preferred for me, though my short frame and knuckle-dragging gorilla arms can really make do with 1" short.  For now, I'm enjoying the double fun of crowding big hands together on a smaller part of the grip when I choke up.  Yikes.

 

Where I get concerned with these potential changes is on swing weight.  My understanding is shortening a club will take off 1 or 2 swing weight points.  I am also of the understanding that every 5g of grip will take off a point of swing weight.

Question I have is if these changes are done at the same time, does the added weight from the grip partially offset the loss of shaft?  I'm guessing "no" as the balance point of the club will have moved, but would appreciate confirmation.

 

Irons are currently a D2 (my typical preference), though I have swung a D0 set of irons perfectly fine before as their static weight was high enough.     

[golfschnell]

You have it backwards. Shortening shaft 1 inch will reduce swing weight by around 6 points so club would be in c6ish range. Adding heavier grips will reduce the swing weight even more, it will only increase the static weight. 
 

if you were only talking about couple swingweight points , I think you could adjust, particularly if from heavier grips. If you need irons that short, I think you are better off building from scratch, and having increased head weight.

[ScooterMcTavish]

Crikey!

 

Think that 1" is staying on the club.

Will look for midsize grips in the general weight range of the MCC.

[Stuart_G]

14 hours ago, ScooterMcTavish said:

Question I have is if these changes are done at the same time, does the added weight from the grip partially offset the loss of shaft?  I'm guessing "no" as the balance point of the club will have moved, but would appreciate confirmation.

 

The most important thing to understand is that Swing weight was never intended to manage grip weight.  So forget the rules about what grip weight will do to swing weight - they should never be used.  That's not to say changing grips can't change the weight feel - it can for some people but not others.   But the swing weight scale or it's "rules" is not a good way to figure out how it will change or how to fix it.

 

Shortening the playing length will change swing weight - but not the effective swing weight if you've already been playing the clubs choking up.  So if they were D2 at full length, playing them choked up is not playing a D2 set.   So it's possible you might not need to make any changes to the head weight.  But it's impossible to say for sure.

 

So what does that mean?  Simple, get some lead weight and go to the range, you're going to need to do some testing to get the answers you're looking for.  No one here will be able to give you any (useful) quick answers on what you need to do.

 

Start with one club and make the desired length and grip change.  Don't do anything to the head weight and forget about swing weight values or what you think your preference for swing weight might be.  Then take it to the range and (once you get warmed up) add the lead tape to the head in 2 gm increments.  Forget about swing weight values and just try and find the head weight feel that works best for you.    When you're done, now it's time to put that club with the lead tape and the desired grip and put it on a swing weight scale to get a value that can be used to build the rest of the set.  And if you want, replace the lead tape with some tip weights on the test club.

Edited July 15 by Stuart_G

[ScooterMcTavish]

2 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

Shortening the playing length will change swing weight - but not the effective swing weight if you've already been playing the clubs choking up.  So if they were D2 at full length, playing them choked up is not playing a D2 set.   So it's possible you might not need to make any changes to the head weight.  But it's impossible to say for sure.

 

Start with one club and make the desired length and grip change.  Don't do anything to the head weight and forget about swing weight values or what you think your preference for swing weight might be.  Then take it to the range and (once you get warmed up) add the lead tape to the head in 2 gm increments.  Forget about swing weight values and just try and find the head weight feel that works best for you.    When you're done, now it's time to put that club with the lead tape and the desired grip and put it on a swing weight scale to get a value that can be used to build the rest of the set.  And if you want, replace the lead tape with some tip weights on the test club.

 

Thanks Stuart,

Think I may do this in two phases - try the slightly heavier grip first (+8-10g) on one club, and see how it feels without any added weight, then can add some lead tape before I start cutting shafts (even if only by 1/2").  Also of note, I am keeping an eye on static weight, as these are the heaviest irons I've played in about 5 years.  Adding 10g of grip then another 4-8g of lead tape may be moving them into "too heavy" territory; they are already at 428g in the 7i.

 

Another option is to look at re-shafting them, and rebuild the static weight and swing weight as part of the process.  I do have great love for the $-Taper Lite and Modus Tour 105 - might be a way to "buy back" some static weight, and allow me to go heavier in grips, 1/2" shorter, yet add a tip weight to compensate.

[Stuart_G]

13 minutes ago, ScooterMcTavish said:

 

Thanks Stuart,

Think I may do this in two phases - try the slightly heavier grip first (+8-10g) on one club, and see how it feels without any added weight

 

That's fine.  Check it both at full playing length (if you want) and also at the choked up playing length.   Checking it choked up is really the same as checking it cut down (as far as the head weight is concerned that is).   It just sounded to me like you had already made up your mind to go forward with cutting them down.

 

 

 

Edited July 15 by Stuart_G

[Stuart_G]

 

14 minutes ago, ScooterMcTavish said:

Another option is to look at re-shafting them, and rebuild the static weight and swing weight as part of the process.  I do have great love for the $-Taper Lite and Modus Tour 105 - might be a way to "buy back" some static weight, and allow me to go heavier in grips, 1/2" shorter, yet add a tip weight to compensate.

 

Sorry, also

 

That's more of another branch than a completely different option as I see it.  It's certainly not a bad idea when changing grip weight to re-evaluate the shaft weight.   But sometimes just checking out how it feels with the heavier grip and the same shaft is enough for many to decide they are fine with the existing shaft so it's still usually the best first step.

 

[ScooterMcTavish]

9 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

That's fine.  Check it both at full playing length (if you want) and also at the choked up playing length.   Checking it choked up is really the same as checking it cut down (as far as the head weight is concerned that is).   It just sounded to me like you had already made up your mind to go forward with cutting them down.

 

Always the conundrum for a short guy with long arms.  If I play my irons a bit flatter (usually 1-1.5*), the excess length becomes much less of an issue.  Playing irons at standard lie gets me a little more upright, so I am able to get inside a little easier, but I do need to choke up to "shorten" the club.  

 

Think I should also get them to my local club guru and have him check the lofts and lies.  Although the Mizzys are (reportedly) 0.5* flatter than my prior W/S, I do appear to be choking up on them less than I have with other irons suggesting the lies may be even flatter than this.  

 

16 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

But sometimes just checking out how it feels with the heavier grip and the same shaft is enough for many to decide they are fine with the existing shaft so it's still usually the best first step.

 

Cutting the shaft is permanent, so I'll only do it if absolutely necessary now that I understand how much it will affect swing weight.  Was concerned about going back to midweight steel and heavier irons this year, but so far seem to be managing them OK - but they certainly seem to be close to the maximum static weight I'd like to play, especially on very hot and humid days.

[rsballer10]

18 minutes ago, ScooterMcTavish said:

If I play my irons a bit flatter (usually 1-1.5*), the excess length becomes much less of an issue.

that combined with a slightly shorter shaft (maybe 0.5" instead of 1") might get you where you need to be. -1/2" is about 3 swing weight points, so it only takes about 6g to rebalance. If you don't mind the look of it, a couple of strips of lead tape can be DIY on your own. You may not even need the full 6g of weight added back. Or any of it added back at all 🙂. But IMO try summing up some incremental changes instead of going length only, or lie angle only.

 

Grips wise, it is correct that the added weight will change the SW scale but not the MOI/heft of the club and that is correct. The only thing you have to watch out for is the total weight of the club getting too heavy. That would be where you would want to explore a lighter shaft, more head weight, heavier grip. But Obviously that's more $$$ intensive. Some of the weight can be offset by the grip you choose. Cords are heavier than rubber only grips in most cases. +4 style grips tend to be heavier as well. I clipped 2 examples - MCC +4 align, compared to a standard tour velvet. The standard MCC weights as much as the midsize tour velvet! So there are ways around grip weight - but it may depend on what your typical grip of choice is.

 

[ScooterMcTavish]

4 hours ago, rsballer10 said:

that combined with a slightly shorter shaft (maybe 0.5" instead of 1") might get you where you need to be. -1/2" is about 3 swing weight points, so it only takes about 6g to rebalance. If you don't mind the look of it, a couple of strips of lead tape can be DIY on your own. You may not even need the full 6g of weight added back. Or any of it added back at all 🙂. But IMO try summing up some incremental changes instead of going length only, or lie angle only.

 

Thanks rsballer,

 

I think I'll try the new grips first, and see how I do with just that adjustment.  Looks like the MCC that came on them are 50g, and I was able to source some midsize at a reasonable price at 55g (Karma Revolution 360) as a trial set.  Actually have always been a Tour Velvet/Crossline fan, and find the Karma are very comparable with adequate durability, especially for someone who changes their grip often.  

 

Also went and rechecked my height and wrist to floor stats.  As per Wishon, I should be playing a 37" length 7i (mine are 37.25") and around 3° flat based on how accurately I measured my wrist to floor.  In short, I should not be taking anything off my irons, and be looking to get the lies checked and/or flattened.  The Mizzys come (reportedly) 0.5º flatter than standard, so I'd likely try going to 2º flat as a starting point.

 

As an irrelevant side note, I used to have my irons adjusted to 2º flat, but then arbitrarily decided that I should play standard lie based on bad feedback from a bad fitter in 2022.  His thought was my miss right would be helped by playing irons more upright; in fact, my miss right was solved by being more intentional in my setup, and ensuring consistent ball and hand position.  In fact, this may be why my "new" miss is a toe miss, as I'm getting too inside.  Hmmmmm.  
 

4 hours ago, rsballer10 said:

The only thing you have to watch out for is the total weight of the club getting too heavy.

If I'm not shortening the club, a bump of 5g should hopefully not be noticeable.  We'll find out this weekend.  But I purchased the Mizunos knowing they were near the top of my static weight range, so glad to see a little more research suggests I will not have to start messing with weights to compensate for shortening.

Thanks to both you and Stuart for talking me off the ledge here, and I'll report back once I go through some convulsions.

[rsballer10]

48 minutes ago, ScooterMcTavish said:

Also went and rechecked my height and wrist to floor stats.  As per Wishon, I should be playing a 37" length 7i (mine are 37.25") and around 3° flat based on how accurately I measured my wrist to floor.  In short, I should not be taking anything off my irons, and be looking to get the lies checked and/or flattened.  The Mizzys come (reportedly) 0.5º flatter than standard, so I'd likely try going to 2º flat as a starting point.

I'll let @Stuart_G chime in on this one but I wouldn't fit lie to static measurements. At best they can be a starting point. If I went by static readings, my irons would be +1 at a minimum, and 2-4 degrees upright depending on the chart. I play +1/2", and 1 up at most.

 

49 minutes ago, ScooterMcTavish said:

As an irrelevant side note, I used to have my irons adjusted to 2º flat, but then arbitrarily decided that I should play standard lie based on bad feedback from a bad fitter in 2022.  His thought was my miss right would be helped by playing irons more upright; in fact, my miss right was solved by being more intentional in my setup, and ensuring consistent ball and hand position.  In fact, this may be why my "new" miss is a toe miss, as I'm getting too inside.  Hmmmmm

The sharpie line test seems to be the best method most people have access to at the moment. I found mine by hitting balls/trial and error. I also have a bending machine 🙂 so I can afford error b/c its free.

[ScooterMcTavish]

28 minutes ago, rsballer10 said:

I'll let @Stuart_G chime in on this one but I wouldn't fit lie to static measurements. At best they can be a starting point. If I went by static readings, my irons would be +1 at a minimum, and 2-4 degrees upright depending on the chart. I play +1/2", and 1 up at most.

 

The sharpie line test seems to be the best method most people have access to at the moment. I found mine by hitting balls/trial and error. I also have a bending machine 🙂 so I can afford error b/c its free.

 

Don't disagree with the above, but have had success playing 2º flat in the past, so it's likely not a bad starting spot.  When I had my Hdcp all the way down to a 6, I was playing Nickent Arc Blades bent 2º flat. 

 

I don't think your experience is all that uncommon either.  Saw a great YouTube video about why people should play clubs flatter than they think, and I agree that it is easier to adapt to a club that is too flat versus too upright.  Accidentally ordered a used green dot Ping wedge earlier this year, and found it unhittable.

Will do some ball stripe testing though before I start getting them bent.  Mind you, my local guy does it for $5/club (loft and lie) so it's not too painful.

 

Back in the day I did see a bending machine come up on local classifieds for a song.  I regret not grabbing it, as it could be a lot of fun.  Have been actually tempted to try doing a reshaft myself, but am not set up yet.

Edited July 15 by ScooterMcTavish

[Stuart_G]

17 hours ago, ScooterMcTavish said:

Also went and rechecked my height and wrist to floor stats.  As per Wishon, I should be playing a 37" length 7i (mine are 37.25") and around 3° flat based on how accurately I measured my wrist to floor.  In short, I should not be taking anything off my irons, 

 

@rsballer10 is correct.  The WTF chart doesn't mean that.  It's only a starting point and there are plenty of situations where going shorter is desirable.  If you want to hear it from the source, read this post from Tom Wishon about length fitting.

 

 

FWIW - it really doesn't take much to be setup to reshaft steel.  It's a great place to start.

Edited July 16 by Stuart_G

[ScooterMcTavish]

As mentioned I wanted to report back.

 

So went to 5g heavier grips with no noticeable difference.  If I tried to convince myself they swing weighted lighter I could, but honestly, how heavy my clubs feel is a day-to-day thing.

 

After two rounds comfortable with the grips, decided to go get the lies adjusted today via my local club guru.  Not only were most of the clubs off spec, when the lies were off spec, they were all 0.5-1.5* upright.

 

Had everything bent 1.5* flatter than spec, and what a lovely round tonight.  No choking up, no fiddling with my stance.  No issues with irons flaring right, and hit 4/4 greens on my first four holes.  Kind of scratched my head, wondering why I haven’t done this sooner, especially as I was a single digit back when I played my irons flat 2*.

 

Seems like a small thing, but it is amazing when you invest the time and effort making a set of irons “yours”, and have them adjusted to your personal specs and swing.  I am guilty of being a “club ho”, and have often played irons stock, so they’d be easier to sell.  Glad I’ve committed to this set of Mizzys, and am investing the time and money to make them work.

 

Gentlemen, appreciate the feedback as always.

[ShortGolfer]

The ease of customizing irons may be the best reason to play irons instead of hybrids.  A golfer with a consistent swing can have their irons dialed in to precisely hit targets.  That can't be done with hybrids or fairway woods.

 

Great to hear you figured out what you need for your swing! 

[is1ander]

1 hour ago, ScooterMcTavish said:

As mentioned I wanted to report back.

 

So went to 5g heavier grips with no noticeable difference.  If I tried to convince myself they swing weighted lighter I could, but honestly, how heavy my clubs feel is a day-to-day thing.

 

After two rounds comfortable with the grips, decided to go get the lies adjusted today via my local club guru.  Not only were most of the clubs off spec, when the lies were off spec, they were all 0.5-1.5* upright.

 

Had everything bent 1.5* flatter than spec, and what a lovely round tonight.  No choking up, no fiddling with my stance.  No issues with irons flaring right, and hit 4/4 greens on my first four holes.  Kind of scratched my head, wondering why I haven’t done this sooner, especially as I was a single digit back when I played my irons flat 2*.

 

Seems like a small thing, but it is amazing when you invest the time and effort making a set of irons “yours”, and have them adjusted to your personal specs and swing.  I am guilty of being a “club ho”, and have often played irons stock, so they’d be easier to sell.  Glad I’ve committed to this set of Mizzys, and am investing the time and money to make them work.

 

Gentlemen, appreciate the feedback as always.

 

Nice. I can play irons anywhere from stock to +2", D2 to E2. I think the brain and body adjust naturally. We see pros often hit amazing shots gripping down almost below the grip. I say try everything and let the results determine what you should play. Ball don't lie. 

[ScooterMcTavish]

8 hours ago, is1ander said:

Nice. I can play irons anywhere from stock to +2", D2 to E2. I think the brain and body adjust naturally. We see pros often hit amazing shots gripping down almost below the grip. I say try everything and let the results determine what you should play. Ball don't lie. 

 

I am also adaptable with irons, and honestly find a large change in static weight much more challenging than a change in swing weight.    And all things considered, I noticed last night I had better "feel" with the irons, likely as I was getting my hands on the softest part of the handle.  

 

And again, it is not as if I did not know that I needed my clubs flattened - last time I was in single digits, I was playing lie angles similar to my adjusted clubs.  Unfortunately, I think a bad encounter with a set of i15 in purple dot a few years back may have been what convinced me to move to a standard lie.

  

[is1ander]

On 7/24/2025 at 7:43 AM, ScooterMcTavish said:

 

I am also adaptable with irons, and honestly find a large change in static weight much more challenging than a change in swing weight.    And all things considered, I noticed last night I had better "feel" with the irons, likely as I was getting my hands on the softest part of the handle.  

 

And again, it is not as if I did not know that I needed my clubs flattened - last time I was in single digits, I was playing lie angles similar to my adjusted clubs.  Unfortunately, I think a bad encounter with a set of i15 in purple dot a few years back may have been what convinced me to move to a standard lie.

  

 

I just watched the new Kick Point YouTube conversation at the Kingdom with Scottie's club builder. Fascinating stuff. It really is all about the feel. Everything is blueprinted for his clubs. Everything.

[BREWMASTER95060]

Is this it?