Hitting 7W Almost as Far as Driver

[Birdman03]

I suspect what I have observed is limited to those of us with low CHS, but even with that I am a bit surprised.

 

I hit two different drivers and measured the ball speeds and other parameters using my SC300i launch monitor.  After that I hit 20 balls with a 22 deg G430 7W off a low tee.  The ball speed difference for quality hits was only 6 mph (105 vs 111 mph).  In contrast I note LPGA Trackman data shows 18 mph average ball speed difference between their drivers and hybrids (I assume that is similar to my 7W).

 

My results I think are somewhat due to consistency of center contact, which is significantly better with my 7W (see attached picture).  I can swing as about as hard as I want with 7W, hit it on the center, and get a nice tight dispersion pattern.  I can't do that with driver.  The smaller head of the 7W seems to promote more center contact.

 

This brings up the possibility that an optimal tee club for me (or maybe others with my low CHS) could be something in between driver and 7W in length and loft.  

 

[Valtiel]

43 minutes ago, Birdman03 said:

My results I think are somewhat due to consistency of center contact, which is significantly better with my 7W (see attached picture). I can swing as about as hard as I want with 7W, hit it on the center, and get a nice tight dispersion pattern.

Agreed, that's definitely a big part of it. 
 

Quote

 I can't do that with driver.  The smaller head of the 7W seems to promote more center contact.

Disagreed...the longer length of the driver is exacerbating your swing flaws and compromising both speed AND contact. The right to left low heel/high toe pattern is indicative of a significant (and common) club path issue related to your swing as detailed in your previous thread. I'm not sure how you're swinging your driver now, but the sucked inside takeaway and the out/over compensation which got you steep and cutting across the ball produces this exact strike pattern:



It's common enough that it's literally the first Google Image Search result for "driver face wear". Correcting the flaw would have your strike pattern looking more like your 7w and this increasing speed and efficiency. 

Edited July 19 by Valtiel

[Birdman03]

4 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Agreed, that's definitely a big part of it. 
 

Disagreed...the longer length of the driver is exacerbating your swing flaws and compromising both speed AND contact. The right to left low heel/high toe pattern is indicative of a significant (and common) club path issue related to your swing as detailed in your previous thread. I'm not sure how you're swinging your driver now, but the sucked inside takeaway and the out/over compensation which got you steep and cutting across the ball produces this exact strike pattern:



It's common enough that it's literally the first Google Image Search result for "driver face wear". Correcting the flaw would have your strike pattern looking more like your 7w and this increasing speed and efficiency. 

Excellent analysis, thanks.  I will try again after a bit more swing work with video.

 

In the meantime I will try swinging under an alignment stick to force an inside-out path and see what the strike pattern looks like. 

[TheDeanAbides]

I'm pretty sure that you need more loft on your driver to begin with. 

[Birdman03]

48 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I'm pretty sure that you need more loft on your driver to begin with. 

I have been hitting two different drivers to test that, after seeing a lot of advice for low CHS seniors to use more lofted drivers.

 

One driver is a Callaway with an R shaft set at 14.5 degrees and the other is a G430 Max with a Sr shaft set at 13.0 degrees.

 

What are you seeing that makes you think I need more loft? I am launching both at 16 to 17 degrees.

[TheDeanAbides]

32 minutes ago, Birdman03 said:

I have been hitting two different drivers to test that, after seeing a lot of advice for low CHS seniors to use more lofted drivers.

 

One driver is a Callaway with an R shaft set at 14.5 degrees and the other is a G430 Max with a Sr shaft set at 13.0 degrees.

 

What are you seeing that makes you think I need more loft? I am launching both at 16 to 17 degrees.

I should have asked. That's a decent amount of loft. 

[ChaosTheory]

1 hour ago, Birdman03 said:

I am launching both at 16 to 17 degrees.

 

That might be a little higher than needed.  Try turning them down a little and see what happens to your ball speed and distance.  

[brucestats]

you might do well with a mini driver. You probably get thru the ball more with the 7 wood with a better technical swing. I think big headed drivers dont promote the best swing thoughts!

[joedizzy1978]

The difference in strike will surely account for the small differential in ball speed but also consider that the amount of dynamic loft could be similar as well. Starting as high as 14.5 and hitting up versus “21” and hitting down could also contribute the lack of difference. 

[Birdman03]

37 minutes ago, joedizzy1978 said:

The difference in strike will surely account for the small differential in ball speed but also consider that the amount of dynamic loft could be similar as well. Starting as high as 14.5 and hitting up versus “21” and hitting down could also contribute the lack of difference. 

Normally I would hit 7W off the ground, but for this exercise I used a low tee and hit up on it to simulate a driver swing.  Launch angle was 18 degrees.

[joedizzy1978]

6 minutes ago, Birdman03 said:

Normally I would hit 7W off the ground, but for this exercise I used a low tee and hit up on it to simulate a driver swing.  Launch angle was 18 degrees.

What was driver launch?

[Birdman03]

Just now, joedizzy1978 said:

What was driver launch?

Sixteen to 17 degrees.

[joedizzy1978]

Was aoa confirmed or are you going off of intent? If unconfirmed, lack of substantial differential in dynamic loft is still a high possibility

Edited July 19 by joedizzy1978

[Birdman03]

45 minutes ago, joedizzy1978 said:

Was aoa confirmed or are you going off of intent? If unconfirmed, lack of substantial differential in dynamic loft is still a high possibility

No I don't have actual AoA meaurements. I am assuming driver AoA is reasonable because I don't hit high on the face or launch any sky balls.  Those are signs of too much downward AoA in my experience.

[Hawkeye77]

1 hour ago, Birdman03 said:

Normally I would hit 7W off the ground, but for this exercise I used a low tee and hit up on it to simulate a driver swing.  Launch angle was 18 degrees.

Low tee and hitting up on 7w? No! 

[Birdman03]

34 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Low tee and hitting up on 7w? No! 

Yes, not normally of course.  For this experiment I was testing what would happen if I did swing 7W like driver.

[Hawkeye77]

28 minutes ago, Birdman03 said:

Yes, not normally of course.  For this experiment I was testing what would happen if I did swing 7W like driver.

 

Why? How does teeing your 7w low and trying to hit up on hit help determine what club you should use off the tee boxes? Makes no sense.

[Birdman03]

45 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

Why? How does teeing your 7w low and trying to hit up on hit help determine what club you should use off the tee boxes? Makes no sense.

It doesn't.  However I think there is a lesson to be learned from the consistency of center strikes I got doing that vs lack of same with driver.

 

I think Valtiel diagnosed what is happening quite nicely back in the first reply to my post.

Edited July 20 by Birdman03
Added

[Birdman03]

When I did this exercise a key learning was that my driver swing flaws were showing clearly in the strike patterns as pointed out by @Valtiel.  I did some practice with video and was able to find the center of the face much more consistently.

 

I did it by moving away from the ball a bit and getting my back less rounded at address.  I then bowed my wrists at the top, which has the effect of flattening the shaft and getting it more on plane in my downswing.  I also delayed and reduced my lower body turn in the downswing.

 

I am not able yet to do all this at full speed, but the progress is encouraging.

 

[iacas]

13 hours ago, Birdman03 said:

 

Be careful there. Those aren't the same camera angles. Moving that camera a few inches left or right in the top view is going to change where that line seems to point quite a bit.

[RayPlan]

13 hours ago, Birdman03 said:

When I did this exercise a key learning was that my driver swing flaws were showing clearly in the strike patterns as pointed out by @Valtiel.  I did some practice with video and was able to find the center of the face much more consistently.

 

I did it by moving away from the ball a bit and getting my back less rounded at address.  I then bowed my wrists at the top, which has the effect of flattening the shaft and getting it more on plane in my downswing.  I also delayed and reduced my lower body turn in the downswing.

 

I am not able yet to do all this at full speed, but the progress is encouraging.

 

What's the alignment stick for? Why is it pointing way right? Why don't you line the camera up with the stick?

[Birdman03]

2 hours ago, RayPlan said:

What's the alignment stick for? Why is it pointing way right? Why don't you line the camera up with the stick?

In my recent lessons I have been told to set up closed to promote more rotation to the trail side.  That stick is there as a guide for that.

[RayPlan]

45 minutes ago, Birdman03 said:

In my recent lessons I have been told to set up closed to promote more rotation to the trail side.  That stick is there as a guide for that.

Consider using one alignment stick (or a club) for that, and another to align the center of camera. 

[Birdman03]

Just now, RayPlan said:

Consider using one alignment stick (or a club) for that, and another to align the center of camera. 

Good advice, thanks.