PGA Pro Drivers

[Climbhard]

Why doesn't it seem anyone on tour hits a straight drive?  You can call it a fade but looks more like a slice on TV.  Just hit it straight!

[virtuoso]

Finally, someone said it!

[getitdaily]

Top tracer...should be called bottom tracer...because it's cheeks.

 

Right?

[iacas]

A ball traveling 300 yards in the air and curving 15 yards is pretty straight, my man. There's also wind, the way a fairway doglegs… etc.

 

https://www.thefriedegg.com/articles/scottie-scheffler-stats-2025-open-championship

 

Quote

Out of 52 tee shots on par 4s and 5s fully captured by Toptracer, Scottie Scheffler hit 10 with right-to-left curve. He didn’t hit a single tee shot with right-to-left curve during Friday’s round. He hit only one tee shot with right-to-left curve during Sunday’s round, his drive on No. 7, which curved 2.5 yards to the left. Exactly half of his tee shots faded between 10 and 30 yards.

 

That's pretty straight.

[Valtiel]

8 hours ago, Climbhard said:

Why doesn't it seem anyone on tour hits a straight drive?  You can call it a fade but looks more like a slice on TV.  Just hit it straight!

Edited July 22 by Valtiel

[SNIPERBBB]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

A ball traveling 300 yards in the air and curving 15 yards is pretty straight, my man. There's also wind, the way a fairway doglegs… etc.

 

https://www.thefriedegg.com/articles/scottie-scheffler-stats-2025-open-championship

 

 

That's pretty straight.

To put in a bit more perspective, that's a 2.5 degree window. 

 

Really aren't many big curvers of the ball with driver or most any clubs unless they have to or they really came out of one 

[TheDeanAbides]

12 hours ago, iacas said:

A ball traveling 300 yards in the air and curving 15 yards is pretty straight, my man. There's also wind, the way a fairway doglegs… etc.

 

https://www.thefriedegg.com/articles/scottie-scheffler-stats-2025-open-championship

 

 

That's pretty straight.

I call that a power fade. 

[SNIPERBBB]

another thing on the tv thing...every shot looks like a shank on TV till protracer pops up.

[Santiago Golf]

Drives that curve are more accurate ... I know on paper it makes no sense, but you will hit more fairways by curving the ball than trying to hit it straight 

[Climbhard]

1 hour ago, Santiago Golf said:

Drives that curve are more accurate ... I know on paper it makes no sense, but you will hit more fairways by curving the ball than trying to hit it straight 

I can understand that. You effectively double the width of a fairway.

[TheDeanAbides]

32 minutes ago, Climbhard said:

I can understand that. You effectively double the width of a fairway.

I've never understood this. It's only effective if you can guarantee that shape, and very few people can. It also only makes sense if you can control the amount of curve. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

2 hours ago, SNIPERBBB said:

another thing on the tv thing...every shot looks like a shank on TV till protracer pops up.

 

Yeah, it often seems--particularly on approach shots, that the camera is slightly to the right of the [right-handed] player. This makes the start line appear to be WAY right when it's not. 

 

And that also can make the curve on the tracer look more or less pronounced on tee shots depending on where the camera is and where the player puts a peg in the ground. 

 

And you can end up with tracer curves that look like the ball turned both ways, like this one:

 

 

I.e. it looks like it a very pronounced draw to start, but then straightens out or fades back. But if the camera had been directly behind the player, it would look like only a draw. 

 

Given that this is the instructional thread, it's yet another reason that the instructors on this forum are such sticklers for filming your swing from the correct camera angles. Because being off only a little bit can drastically change what you see. 

 

[BSI99]

57 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I've never understood this. It's only effective if you can guarantee that shape, and very few people can. It also only makes sense if you can control the amount of curve. 

I don't think guaranteeing a shape of the tee is that difficult. Most modern drivers want to fade a ton so unless you're playing it really in to out you're going to hit a fade off the tee. 

[rsballer10]

6 minutes ago, BSI99 said:

Most modern drivers want to fade a ton so unless you're playing it really in to out you're going to hit a fade off the tee. 

Most core model heads are as neutral as possible because it maximizes ball speed. Lower spinning drivers just allow better players to hit fades off the tee without sacrificing a lot of distance. It's very possible to play a draw with a modern driver, with a somewhat neutral delivery.

[TheDeanAbides]

53 minutes ago, BSI99 said:

I don't think guaranteeing a shape of the tee is that difficult. Most modern drivers want to fade a ton so unless you're playing it really in to out you're going to hit a fade off the tee. 

Doesn't stop you pulling it into the left rough, though. 

[GoGoErky]

1 minute ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Doesn't stop you pulling it into the left rough, though. 

I’ve seen lots of duck hooks with new drivers 

[Valtiel]

15 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Yeah, it often seems--particularly on approach shots, that the camera is slightly to the right of the [right-handed] player. This makes the start line appear to be WAY right when it's not. 

 

And that also can make the curve on the tracer look more or less pronounced on tee shots depending on where the camera is and where the player puts a peg in the ground. 

 

That and the effect of the focal length distortion from long lenses. You don't see it quite as much these days, but zooming in on the player from much further away has the effect of compressing the depth of field, making everything further away look closer. 150y shots look like the green is 30y away, so combine that with how the camera is aligned and it can look like the player is starting the ball 75y offline.

[TheDeanAbides]

31 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

That and the effect of the focal length distortion from long lenses. You don't see it quite as much these days, but zooming in on the player from much further away has the effect of compressing the depth of field, making everything further away look closer. 150y shots look like the green is 30y away, so combine that with how the camera is aligned and it can look like the player is starting the ball 75y offline.

I used to love taking photos of people with different focal length lenses and then showing them how different they looked. I recall seeing an article with a series of portraits of the same model taken at every focal length from 20mm to 200mm. I always shot my headshots with a 200mm because of that.

[D0ch0l1d4y]

On 7/21/2025 at 1:45 PM, Climbhard said:

Why doesn't it seem anyone on tour hits a straight drive?  You can call it a fade but looks more like a slice on TV.  Just hit it straight!

 

In no small part because in order to hit a "straight" drive, you need a square face angle and 0 degree swing path. 

If you have a slightly open face angle and a 0 degree path, push-fade.

If you have a slightly closed face angle and a 0 degree path, pull-draw.

 

Visually:

 

That's the 2-way miss that no one can be consistent with. A stock shot shape provides your tee shot a margin for error and still miss in the same way.

[me05501]

The real question is this: why do ams think they should be able to hit every fairway when the guys on TV clearly don’t? 

[SNIPERBBB]

1 hour ago, me05501 said:

The real question is this: why do ams think they should be able to hit every fairway when the guys on TV clearly don’t? 

They think their courses have bigger fairways than the pros? Definitely not the case at my home course where you're lucky to get 20yd wide fairways at the widest! Good thing it's short and open and can borrow the next fairway..or 2, over 

[bladehunter]

At any speed. Straight is hard. Driver is hardest club to hit in a way.  They may also be poorly fit and need to fix their delivery per the fitter at golf  galaxy that just fit Zach Blair. 🤣.  They handed him a club and told him it would lower his spin. He pipes one. And they claim it’s “ user error “ when it raises spin. Then the pudgy fitter tells the camera he needs to work on his swing and

gain some speed. 
 

this friends is what good players have to deal with at most fittings.  This is why most of us fit ourselves by trial and error.  
 

 

[bladehunter]

On 7/22/2025 at 7:44 AM, Santiago Golf said:

Drives that curve are more accurate ... I know on paper it makes no sense, but you will hit more fairways by curving the ball than trying to hit it straight 

Sure. But I think what drives me nuts is that those drivers are also spinny and not long. So anyone who hits 3 wood good is just as long with a 3 wood as driver.  So why not just hit 3 wood ?  

[TiScape]

10 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

At any speed. Straight is hard. Driver is hardest club to hit in a way.  They may also be poorly fit and need to fix their delivery per the fitter at golf  galaxy that just fit Zach Blair. 🤣.  They handed him a club and told him it would lower his spin. He pipes one. And they claim it’s “ user error “ when it raises spin. Then the pudgy fitter tells the camera he needs to work on his swing and

gain some speed. 
 

this friends is what good players have to deal with at most fittings.  This is why most of us fit ourselves by trial and error.  
 

 

If that fitter was “pudgy”. What we callin’ Zac? 
 

🤣

Edited July 27 by TiScape

[bladehunter]

2 hours ago, TiScape said:

If that fitter was “pudgy”. What we callin’ Zac? 
 

🤣

He’s was in costume 😉.    But really. Got me there. Both definitely like cookies and little Debbie. 

[PedronNiall]

6 hours ago, SNIPERBBB said:

They think their courses have bigger fairways than the pros? Definitely not the case at my home course where you're lucky to get 20yd wide fairways at the widest! Good thing it's short and open and can borrow the next fairway..or 2, over 

 

It's kinda brutal at times the setups average golfers face. A lot of classic courses still have relatively narrow fairways, lots of rough and mature trees between them even if they're side-by-side, tiny greens with lots of punishment in front and to the side, including modern bunkers with huge faces and ultra soft sand, OB or woods long, and surfaces that would be difficult for pros to hold, with no margin for error with all the surrounds already mentioned. Run across places on occasion with greens so narrow or so wide with no depth that you could fit three or four of them in the widest Arccos proximity circles, and even pros would miss them on average. And there are all the fun ones where the slopes between tiers take up a third or more of the surface and are so steep it's death hitting anything but perfect distance with perfect bite.

 

Tangent over, just a bit wild what some courses have regular players taking on from tee to green.

[LongNwrong27]

On 7/22/2025 at 9:20 AM, Climbhard said:

I can understand that. You effectively double the width of a fairway.

No 

[rsballer10]

On 7/28/2025 at 12:38 AM, PedronNiall said:

 

It's kinda brutal at times the setups average golfers face. A lot of classic courses still have relatively narrow fairways, lots of rough and mature trees between them even if they're side-by-side, tiny greens with lots of punishment in front and to the side, including modern bunkers with huge faces and ultra soft sand, OB or woods long, and surfaces that would be difficult for pros to hold, with no margin for error with all the surrounds already mentioned. Run across places on occasion with greens so narrow or so wide with no depth that you could fit three or four of them in the widest Arccos proximity circles, and even pros would miss them on average. And there are all the fun ones where the slopes between tiers take up a third or more of the surface and are so steep it's death hitting anything but perfect distance with perfect bite.

 

Tangent over, just a bit wild what some courses have regular players taking on from tee to green.

I've never heard someone else say this but I've noticed the same thing. It's not across the board, but I've seen the similar things in my area. I'm by no means an elite player, but there are courses in my area that are EXACTLY as you describe. One has ALL the things you list, on one course. The worst part is, the course that's damn near unplayable has a rating of 68.1/122. There are (2) other courses in the area that are stupid easy and are rated 70.7/124 and 68.1/118. What I've found playing the courses in my area is that a small handful of tracks end up defining my HC. Most muni's are rated pretty close to each other, but differ vastly in playability.

 

In total, it doesn't matter because it all averages out. It's more of an annoyance than anything.

[PedronNiall]

On 7/29/2025 at 7:55 AM, rsballer10 said:

I've never heard someone else say this but I've noticed the same thing. It's not across the board, but I've seen the similar things in my area. I'm by no means an elite player, but there are courses in my area that are EXACTLY as you describe. One has ALL the things you list, on one course. The worst part is, the course that's damn near unplayable has a rating of 68.1/122. There are (2) other courses in the area that are stupid easy and are rated 70.7/124 and 68.1/118. What I've found playing the courses in my area is that a small handful of tracks end up defining my HC. Most muni's are rated pretty close to each other, but differ vastly in playability.

 

In total, it doesn't matter because it all averages out. It's more of an annoyance than anything.

 

Agreed, mostly annoying. I do feel badly for the average player stepping onto many of them, though, because even if they don't keep a handicap they know these courses are supposed to be "easy" and end up down on themselves for playing mostly bogey golf places that many better players couldn't do much with either because aside from being short they're absurdly penal.

 

Made me curious to look and ratings "must be" updated every decade, or at the five year mark for new courses, and also "must be" after any significant changes. A lot of weighting is given to length, but they do rate the holes individually and have formulas to account for hazards and the like, so it still seems strange certain courses fall where they do IMO, but not like the RoG and associated items are supposed to be fully fair, just consistent. Haven't fully dug into the details but it seems wide fairways can also contribute to a relatively lower difficulty rating even if there's a lot of pitch or undulation to them from a quick glance.

 

Found a recent thread on here that discusses it in detail.

 

 

[Pnwpingi210]

On 7/22/2025 at 6:20 AM, Climbhard said:

I can understand that. You effectively double the width of a fairway.

How far do you hit it?