US Junior T202, T251, 256, T258 all exempt

[LOB-Dwight]

Granted a few US teenagers shot worse than the above kids, however, all the US kids earned their spot by playing well in an 18 hole event. Those 4 kids were all exempt and ages 13,14,15, and 18.  Absolutely ridiculous that they were exempt and the USGA should be ashamed of themselves for allowing WAGR's algorithm to allow this to happen. Our states qualifier had 78 kids for 3 spots.  Some of the kids in our qualifier that just missed are a current D1 golfer that just Q'd for the US AM, a 2026 that is a late bloomer and could use the exposure (still un committed) and several 2025's signed to D1 schools.   BE BETTER USGA.  Peace out on Jr. Golf!!!!

[leezer99]

Aren’t there a bunch of wagr exempt kids near the top as well?

[golferdad8]

Plus many kids flying to “easier” states to qualify for this event. It feels like this event has become a bit of a one day lottery, along w some international exemptions for high wagr? We shall see what happens w the cut & the match play, but I think this event could use some tweaking. 

[Tugu]

Weren't there voices that said that they loved the fact that Charlie Woods got exemptions to invitationals on the grounds that this represented "real life?" 

 

Similar voices were also OK with JGS #1 guy paying for entry because this again was replicating how real life functioned?

 

Any protesting voices were put down with taunts of weakness for supposed unwillingness to go hard against the obvious differing standards.

 

I do wonder why now the same voices dont pipe up and love how the current situation again replicates real life. Or are 4 (or maybe even more) possibly unworthy kids hardly the stuff gross inequity?

 

Seems strange to me that some inequities are in fact positive and should be met with grit or resilience via some double down methodology; whilst other inequities need administrative oversight and intervention for remedy.

[Golfquant]

It's the *US* Junior Amateur Championship

 

UNITED STATES players should be given priority

[Tugu]

32 minutes ago, Golfquant said:

It's the *US* Junior Amateur Championship

 

UNITED STATES players should be given priority

That'd be one way to stop a Canadian Chinese beating a People's Republic of China based out of Singapore and a Filipino from winning the "US" Junior girls.😁

Edited July 22 by Tugu

[wegobomber31]

3 hours ago, Tugu said:

Weren't there voices that said that they loved the fact that Charlie Woods got exemptions to invitationals on the grounds that this represented "real life?" 

 

Similar voices were also OK with JGS #1 guy paying for entry because this again was replicating how real life functioned?

 

Any protesting voices were put down with taunts of weakness for supposed unwillingness to go hard against the obvious differing standards.

 

I do wonder why now the same voices dont pipe up and love how the current situation again replicates real life. Or are 4 (or maybe even more) possibly unworthy kids hardly the stuff gross inequity?

 

Seems strange to me that some inequities are in fact positive and should be met with grit or resilience via some double down methodology; whilst other inequities need administrative oversight and intervention for remedy.

 

This is not so thinly veiled directed at me, I'll just say that I think accountability to published standards is fair game.  I've been pretty consistent with that.

 

AJGA says every tournament has spots for sponsors, host clubs, etc.  This is laid out clear as day, so I don't know how anyone can get bent out of shape about it.

 

This is the mission statement of WAGR: 

 

 

WAGR® Mission Statement
The World Amateur Golf Ranking® / WAGR®, which comprises a women’s ranking and a men’s ranking for elite amateur players, is offered by The R&A and the USGA® as a global service to golf. 

Our purpose is to

Accurately rank players as they compete in competitions
To provide a ranking system that enables players to compare with each other even though they may not directly compete against each other in events
To stimulate ambition in players and federations to succeed in development of their game and golfing ability
Through incorporation and assessment worldwide of both amateur and professional events, WAGR aims to be globally recognised as the ultimate ranking system for amateur golf.

 

 

I think they do need avenues to spark interest and provide pathways into the game, but that could easily come through a qualifying exemption from a country and region.  Give the Jordanian Golf federation that chance to identify and send their best golfer.  U.S. golfers basically have 3 ways to get in (WAGR exemption, win your state junior, or qualify) whereas most international players only have one -- and some do a pretty good job of gaming a flawed system to get in.

[MahalNeneng]

Its always been a 1 day lottery on off the wall courses that are never indicative of where the tourney will be held. Nothing new to see here.not sure without the usga dropping big coin to ever fix that. 
the us open quals follow the same recipe but tend for the most part to step the venue up a notch.  

[jigsaw1011]

1 hour ago, wegobomber31 said:

AJGA says every tournament has spots for sponsors, host clubs, etc.  This is laid out clear as day, so I don't know how anyone can get bent out of shape about it.

Actually I don’t think it is laid out clear as day for the AJGA. For regular Open and Junior All Stars the tournament info page says how many PBE s were needed for entry. It doesn’t state some spots will be held for sponsor exemptions. To me that would be “clear as day”. Early on when my son first started playing AJGA tournaments I didn’t understand why he didn’t get into a field even though it seemed like he had enough stars. I called the AJGA and was told the sponsoring pro wanted 10 spots for his people. It was as close to 20% of the field. Yet another AJGA held at our home course did not allow any sponsor’s exemptions as told to the head pro at the course. You can also try alternate route for your kids if you have enough money and buy a whole tournament so your kid can gain entry. It seems the AJGA bows to other influences besides their written policies.    

As for the US junior am why not go to the model of other USGA championships  and have a final qualifying stage? It could eliminate some of the “one hit wonders”.

[LawGenius305]

1 hour ago, MahalNeneng said:

Its always been a 1 day lottery on off the wall courses that are never indicative of where the tourney will be held. Nothing new to see here.not sure without the usga dropping big coin to ever fix that. 
the us open quals follow the same recipe but tend for the most part to step the venue up a notch.  

Nope. It used to be 36 hole qualifier, which it still should be. The biggest Junior golf tournament in the world and they play a 1 day qualifier. SMH!

[kcap]

I agree. This should be a 2 round/stage qualifying.  That is my biggest frustration with this tournament.  A two round qualifying would make this field so much stronger and not top heavy. 

[Tugu]

3 hours ago, wegobomber31 said:

 

This is not so thinly veiled directed at me, I'll just say that I think accountability to published standards is fair game.  I've been pretty consistent with that.

 

AJGA says every tournament has spots for sponsors, host clubs, etc.  This is laid out clear as day, so I don't know how anyone can get bent out of shape about it.

 

This is the mission statement of WAGR: 

 

 

WAGR® Mission Statement
The World Amateur Golf Ranking® / WAGR®, which comprises a women’s ranking and a men’s ranking for elite amateur players, is offered by The R&A and the USGA® as a global service to golf. 

Our purpose is to

Accurately rank players as they compete in competitions
To provide a ranking system that enables players to compare with each other even though they may not directly compete against each other in events
To stimulate ambition in players and federations to succeed in development of their game and golfing ability
Through incorporation and assessment worldwide of both amateur and professional events, WAGR aims to be globally recognised as the ultimate ranking system for amateur golf.

 

 

I think they do need avenues to spark interest and provide pathways into the game, but that could easily come through a qualifying exemption from a country and region.  Give the Jordanian Golf federation that chance to identify and send their best golfer.  U.S. golfers basically have 3 ways to get in (WAGR exemption, win your state junior, or qualify) whereas most international players only have one -- and some do a pretty good job of gaming a flawed system to get in.

If it were I'd be saying how weak it was to complain and that one should respond correctly and double down against life's inequities.

 

Citing mission statements as reasons to rally against one inequity and allow other inequality that one finds palatable to slide is playing a game of poltics and semantics. 

 

So if WAGR's mission statement gave themselves a loophole, we'd all be good now?

Edited July 22 by Tugu

[golferdad8]

7 hours ago, Golfquant said:

It's the *US* Junior Amateur Championship

 

UNITED STATES players should be given priority

What a great idea. I’ve thought the same for a while about AJGA also & the need to have more spots for US players. 
 

Does anyone know if Americans are allowed to play in Canadian Am, or compete in the various Asian & European based tournaments? 

[leezer99]

8 minutes ago, golferdad8 said:

What a great idea. I’ve thought the same for a while about AJGA also & the need to have more spots for US players. &nbsp
 

Does anyone know if Americans are allowed to play in Canadian Am, or compete in the various Asian & European based tournaments? 

I would wager that 90% of us junior players don’t have a valid passport. 

[LOB-Dwight]

8 minutes ago, golferdad8 said:

What a great idea. I’ve thought the same for a while about AJGA also & the need to have more spots for US players. 
 

Does anyone know if Americans are allowed to play in Canadian Am, or compete in the various Asian & European based tournaments? 

Tyler Mawhinney won the Canadian AM last year

https://www.golfgenius.com/pages/10147522902942075374

[LOB-Dwight]

36 minutes ago, Tugu said:

If it were I'd be saying how weak it was to complain and that one should respond correctly and double down against life's inequities.

 

Citing mission statements as reasons to rally against one inequity and allow other inequality that one finds palatable to slide is playing a game of poltics and semantics. 

 

So if WAGR's mission statement gave themselves a loophole, we'd all be good now?

The post wasn't about whether exemptions being offered for the US AM are okay or not, it is okay.  I'm sure 99% of golf tournaments played have exemptions.  The fact that Jordan is so easily able to get 4 juniors in the biggest Junior event in the world by fairly easy manipulation of WAGR is the point. 

[golferdad8]

22 minutes ago, LOB-Dwight said:

Tyler Mawhinney won the Canadian AM last year

https://www.golfgenius.com/pages/10147522902942075374

 

...in the category of "learning to play the (ranking) game) if the US Junior Am/USGA isn't willing to have a better system and if they keep saving "spots" for inferior players. Below is from an article on Tyler winning the Canadian Am.

 

All of this came after the disappointment of Tyler being the only U.S. National Junior Team member not to qualify for the U.S. Junior Amateur two weeks earlier at Oakland Hills Country Club. 

[ATXGolferGuy]

1 hour ago, LawGenius305 said:

Nope. It used to be 36 hole qualifier, which it still should be. The biggest Junior golf tournament in the world and they play a 1 day qualifier. SMH!

THIS right here!  I qualified once back in 95 on a course in San Antonio that was sold at foreclosure auction in 2013 and is now shuttered (being turned into a park). Woodlake Golf course, held the Texas Open and was where Ben Crenshaw won his first professional event.  

 

36 holes but it was all on one day.  I do like how they give an exemption to most states JR Champion, but hate how they give exemptions based on rankings.

 

Moral of the story is just play better I guess!

[Tugu]

45 minutes ago, LOB-Dwight said:

The post wasn't about whether exemptions being offered for the US AM are okay or not, it is okay.  I'm sure 99% of golf tournaments played have exemptions.  The fact that Jordan is so easily able to get 4 juniors in the biggest Junior event in the world by fairly easy manipulation of WAGR is the point. 

Yes. It's an obvious unequal process. As is paying for entry into invitationals or using ones station in life to get somewhere others need to earn.

 

If people are up in arms, so be it. But some are fine with one set of inequity and not fine with others. That's the point of MY post.

Edited July 22 by Tugu

[Tugu]

22 minutes ago, ATXGolferGuy said:

THIS right here!  I qualified once back in 95 on a course in San Antonio that was sold at foreclosure auction in 2013 and is now shuttered (being turned into a park). Woodlake Golf course, held the Texas Open and was where Ben Crenshaw won his first professional event.  

 

36 holes but it was all on one day.  I do like how they give an exemption to most states JR Champion, but hate how they give exemptions based on rankings.

 

Moral of the story is just play better I guess!

Alot of state junior events are closed events. Meaning only for residents. But places like California, the state events are open to all. 

 

Is this fair? I don't know. But it definitely serves to protect certain people.

[jigsaw1011]

46 minutes ago, LOB-Dwight said:

The post wasn't about whether exemptions being offered for the US AM are okay or not, it is okay.  I'm sure 99% of golf tournaments played have exemptions.  The fact that Jordan is so easily able to get 4 juniors in the biggest Junior event in the world by fairly easy manipulation of WAGR is the point. 

But why is one ok and manipulation of WAGR not? Why is the line drawn there?

[LOB-Dwight]

22 minutes ago, jigsaw1011 said:

But why is one ok and manipulation of WAGR not? Why is the line drawn there?

Manipulation of WAGR is what it is, it's the fact that the USGA/R&A seem to not care that it appears to be fairly easy for a country's federation to do it, get 4 players in three of which are 15 or younger. This isn't pay for play, which, let's face it how a lot of exemptions are handed out all the way up to the highest levels.   

[rule_6]

I had totally forgotten it used to be 36 hole qualifying. If you look at some of these score, it is clear that those at the bottom caught "lightening in a bottle" and qualified. I'm sorry but players in this field should not be shooting anywhere close to 90. 

[ATXGolferGuy]

22 minutes ago, Tugu said:

But places like California, the state events are open to all. 

So a resident of TX (or wherever) can enter the Cali State Jr. Am?

[nickosnickos]

i am sympathetic to non-Americans being able to gain WAGR points much easier but the logic that signed D1 players should be able to qualify for the US junior is just very flawed. There's about 3000 active Division 1 golfers. I bet you at least half have never sniffed qualifying for it. Is it fair that some internationals take advantage of their WAGR ranking to get into the tournament? maybe. are there PLENTY of internationals who are just as good if not better than their american peers that can only get in through WAGR? also maybe. 

the system is flawed but i dont think there is a much better way unfortunately.

[Tugu]

19 minutes ago, ATXGolferGuy said:

So a resident of TX (or wherever) can enter the Cali State Jr. Am?

Yes

[Tugu]

48 minutes ago, LOB-Dwight said:

Manipulation of WAGR is what it is, it's the fact that the USGA/R&A seem to not care that it appears to be fairly easy for a country's federation to do it, get 4 players in three of which are 15 or younger. This isn't pay for play, which, let's face it how a lot of exemptions are handed out all the way up to the highest levels.   

I can get behind everything you have just stated.

 

Pay for play or using status to gain advantage is not something you care about. Noone says you have to think it an important issue. But at least you aren't attacking people who care about the above issues as being somehow inherently weak.

 

From my perspective, 4 kids out of a few hundred is ho hum. JGS and the entire Invitational system where kids don't even need to break actual par or win to get low differentials is something I personally believe is alot more egregious than WAGR issues. But I won't attack you for seeing it another way.

 

[LawGenius305]

1 hour ago, ATXGolferGuy said:

THIS right here!  I qualified once back in 95 on a course in San Antonio that was sold at foreclosure auction in 2013 and is now shuttered (being turned into a park). Woodlake Golf course, held the Texas Open and was where Ben Crenshaw won his first professional event.  

 

36 holes but it was all on one day.  I do like how they give an exemption to most states JR Champion, but hate how they give exemptions based on rankings.

 

Moral of the story is just play better I guess!

36 hole qualifier it is highly unlikely a player catches lightning in a botte and advances. Kid qualified from Florida a couple of years ago that never shot under par in any round in his life. Couldn't even catch on to a bottom end NAIA. He wins medalist and ends up bottom 5 of stroke play.

[jholz]

Seems like y'all just got off the boat. Love to see the complaints. Welcome to the world of competitive sports. 

 

At the end of the day, no one cares about your kid any more than the money they think they can pump out of them. Don't trust coaches. Don't trust statistical rankings. Don't trust tours. They will all let you down. 

 

The simple fact is...if your kid is good enough to do it - they will find a way. You can't find it for them.

 

 

[kcap]

6 minutes ago, jholz said:

Seems like y'all just got off the boat. Love to see the complaints. Welcome to the world of competitive sports. 

 

At the end of the day, no one cares about your kid any more than the money they think they can pump out of them. Don't trust coaches. Don't trust statistical rankings. Don't trust tours. They will all let you down. 

 

The simple fact is...if your kid is good enough to do it - they will find a way. You can't find it for them.

 

 

I do not see your posts as relevant to the topic.   And frankly most the parent here are pretty well grounded and not off the boat. 

There is frustration with WAGR ranking due to manipulation and the 1 round qualification. 

 

This is the most important and frankly most enjoyable junior tournament. The USGA does a fantastic job and the kids feel so special.

We missed out this year.  Lost to a couple of birdies in a playoff. It is what it is but this tournament deserves a 2 round qualifying.