Specialty Pitching Wedge Distance Issue

[Birdieputt19]

I’ve been playing the Titleist 716 CB’s for the last 10 years, and have found of late that I struggle with the partial distances with my PW (47° w/x100). So I recently picked up a Mizuno T24 48° w/s400 and have been testing it out. My dispersion is so much tighter with the Mizuno, and it’s easier for me to use around the green. But I’ve found that I am consistently 5-10+ yards short on any shot.

 

Last night I played at twilight and was hitting shots from 145, my normal set wedge distance. Not a single shot with the Mizuno reached the flag/went past. Had 3 in a row all within 5 yards of each other, but were 12-17 yards short.
 

Has anyone experienced this much of a gap when switching to a specialty wedge? I have not had the loft checked yet (which is most likely the main problem), and am considering bending it strong by 1-2°, but am wondering if the S400 is causing higher spin, making the ball carry less? Im striking the ball solid and Id love to stick with the Mizuno since the dispersion is so much tighter, but am just trying to understand where I’m going wrong. 

[PowerCobra98]

I don't think you're going wrong anywhere.  A club will only go the distance it will go based on loft and delivery.  If you want it to go a tab bit further then bend it strong a degree or two.  You will add a small bit of offset, lose a degree or two of bounce, and knock off a few RPM of spin but that may be a good thing to get you the distance you're looking for.  You won't know without giving it a try. 

[Birdieputt19]

I’m okay losing bounce, the offset is where I’m not too keen on. But I would think since I’m strengthening the loft, it would open the face and create less offset?

 

would switching to an x100 lower my spin significantly? I know both shafts are very similar in weight, just not sure how much they’d impact spin

[suuch]

I'm not surprised, this has always been a personal struggle for me. As a 620CB user (i love these irons), my PW is a set cb bent to 48-48.5 degrees. I can hit one 125, but not high to stop fast. A lack of Gap wedge has me testing another vokey to see if I can gap better.

 

 

1 degree of loft, different shaft, maybe different length? more spin. Easy 5-10 yards depending on conditions.

 

As anecdotal evidence of myself:

CB pw (48) -145y total, can knock down to 125 number, but 118-120 in air for a 125 total.

Vok 47- 140y carry & total, easy knock down to 125, 122-123 carry.

 

I've now got a bigger 9i gap to PW, but maybe a weaker 9 will work? The never ending chase...

[Birdieputt19]

 

6 minutes ago, suuch said:

I'm not surprised, this has always been a personal struggle for me. As a 620CB user (i love these irons), my PW is a set cb bent to 48-48.5 degrees. I can hit one 125, but not high to stop fast. A lack of Gap wedge has me testing another vokey to see if I can gap better.

 

 

1 degree of loft, different shaft, maybe different length? more spin. Easy 5-10 yards depending on conditions.

 

As anecdotal evidence of myself:

CB pw (48) -145y total, can knock down to 125 number, but 118-120 in air for a 125 total.

Vok 47- 140y carry & total, easy knock down to 125, 122-123 carry.

 

I've now got a bigger 9i gap to PW, but maybe a weaker 9 will work? The never ending chase...

We’re pretty similar in distance for the PW. I think my avg carry is 142. Ideally I’d like to be around that number since I can take some off a 9 rather than try and muscle a pw. 
 

Seems like I need to get the loft checked, and get on a trackman to see what the spin numbers are. I know the set wedge will be less spin simply because it’s 10 yrs old. But be interesting to see how much of a gap. 
 

I’ve considered bending to 47° but I don’t know that it would make up the 5-10+ yds. Switching to the x100 may give me a few extra yards if it spins less. And I also think the lie is .5° different with the Mizuno. But can’t imagine that would make such a drastic impact. 
 

You’re correct, it is never ending. Once I’m happy with my bag. I see something new and no longer satisfied 😂

[Jeff58]

Normal. Most wedge models continue the same body configuration across the loft sequence. The only one who actively attempts to compensate is Vokey, beginning with the SM8 and further tweaked in the SM9 if I remember correctly. Ping does use a different groove layout, but doesn’t significantly alter COG, at least in my understanding.

 

Also, most tests show that stiffer shafts tend to induce more spin that higher flex models.

 

If you’re against Vokey’s, an alternative if something like a T100 PW. The Mizuno S23 wedge (cavity back) might have a been an interesting alternative, but are difficult to find now. Cleveland CBX’s obviously as well, but their sole configuration is not necessarily optimal for everyone.

[me05501]

Accuracy of both distance and direction is so much more important than raw distance. 

 

I'd say 145 yards is a long way to hit a pitching wedge. Maybe a gapping session with a good fitter would be worthwhile? 

[NNJ]

2 hours ago, Birdieputt19 said:

I’m okay losing bounce, the offset is where I’m not too keen on. But I would think since I’m strengthening the loft, it would open the face and create less offset?

 

would switching to an x100 lower my spin significantly? I know both shafts are very similar in weight, just not sure how much they’d impact spin

Lowering loft would increase offset but 1 degree likely wouldn’t make a huge difference.

 

I think for a PW, S400 to X100 may change the spin, but no guaranty you will end up with a reduction or that it would be to the extent you are thinking you would need for the exact distance gap. It would, however, give you consistent x100 shafts in your full swing clubs, which in my mind is the real benefit. You probably also will want to check the swing weight of the specialty wedge, to make sure the progression from your full swing clubs is working. Lead tape may be your friend.

 

Once you try those two things, I think you can examine tweaking the loft. 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 23 by NNJ

[Ger21]

2 hours ago, Birdieputt19 said:

But I would think since I’m strengthening the loft, it would open the face and create less offset?

Irons are not the same as woods. When you decrease loft, the bottom edge moves back, which is what increases the offset.

 

Are the shaft lengths the same on the two clubs?

[Birdieputt19]

1 hour ago, me05501 said:

Accuracy of both distance and direction is so much more important than raw distance. 

 

I'd say 145 yards is a long way to hit a pitching wedge. Maybe a gapping session with a good fitter would be worthwhile? 

While I agree that accuracy is more important, it’s also important to have clubs that have consistent carry numbers. If my 52 goes 128-132, having a pw that goes 132-138 is not an ideal progression for a full swing, especially since it creates an almost 20 yrd gap with my 9iron.

 

145 is pretty avg for scratch/+ hdcp, and it progresses seamlessly with my other irons/wedges.

Edited July 23 by Birdieputt19

[Birdieputt19]

12 minutes ago, NNJ said:

Lowering loft would increase offset but 1 degree likely wouldn’t make a huge difference.

 

I think for a PW, S400 to X100 may change the spin, but no guaranty you will end up with a reduction or that it would be to the extent you are thinking you would need for the exact distance gap. It would, however, give you consistent x100 shafts in your full swing clubs, which in my mind is the real benefit. You probably also will want to check the swing weight of the specialty wedge, to make sure the progression from your full swing clubs is working. Lead tape may be your friend.

 

Once you try those two things, I think you can examine tweaking the loft. 

 

 

 

 

Swung weight on the Mizuno is different from my set wedge. Not only is the shaft 2g heavier, it also has a much lighter grip. (Mcc @ 43g I believe, while I play TV midsized @ 65g(?). 
 

Definitely have a lot of tinkering to do

[Birdieputt19]

7 minutes ago, Ger21 said:

Irons are not the same as woods. When you decrease loft, the bottom edge moves back, which is what increases the offset.

 

Are the shaft lengths the same on the two clubs?

Got it, so if I didn’t want the offset I would have had to go with a 46° to bend weak?

 

Yes, they are both the same length. Appear to be same overall weight as well. But as I mentioned in another comment, I think the swing weights are different

[Birdieputt19]

.

Edited July 23 by Birdieputt19

[14mh]

58 minutes ago, Birdieputt19 said:

Swung weight on the Mizuno is different from my set wedge. Not only is the shaft 2g heavier, it also has a much lighter grip. (Mcc @ 43g I believe, while I play TV midsized @ 65g(?). 
 

Definitely have a lot of tinkering to do

Tour velvet midsize is 53g not 65.

[Pnwpingi210]

Changing shafts isn’t going to solve this.

 

get a 46 degree mizuno.  That should get you 6-8 yards back.

 

Hitting 145 yard 47 degree pw is huge.  Farther than even the most of the high speed (no average) professionals.  I think Justin Thomas, Xander, and Scottie are all 145 or less stock.  

[Ri_Redneck]

I second this /|\. That wedge comes in a 46° and would probably give you exactly what you're looking for. What is the loft and distance of your next wedge down?

 

BT

[Birdieputt19]

8 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

Changing shafts isn’t going to solve this.

 

get a 46 degree mizuno.  That should get you 6-8 yards back.

 

Hitting 145 yard 47 degree pw is huge.  Farther than even the most of the high speed (no average) professionals.  I think Justin Thomas, Xander, and Scottie are all 145 or less stock.  

 

5 minutes ago, Ri_Redneck said:

I second this /|\. That wedge comes in a 46° and would probably give you exactly what you're looking for. What is the loft and distance of your next wedge down?

 

BT

All my numbers are validated with sky track averaging 10 shots. I have longer arms and lots of lag, which could explain it.
 

That was my next thought process. I’m not a huge fan of offset so getting the correct wedge loft may be better. 
 

My wedge setup is 52°, 56°, 60°. 128, 114, 100 for yardage. So I’m looking for that 142 number that keeps me at +/- 14 yds per club. I’m not as worried about loft progression with wedges I.e 6° as opposed to 4°. Just want to hit my numbers

[suuch]

15 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

Hitting 145 yard 47 degree pw is huge.  Farther than even the most of the high speed (no average) professionals.  I think Justin Thomas, Xander, and Scottie are all 145 or less stock.  

 

Not to derail a thread, but I'm always puzzled by this.

 

On one hand "these guys hit it so much further than us mortals". (( Yes it's about precision with a wedge))

On the broadcast "That's a gap wedge from 148 Jim." OR "lob wedge from 107 wind off the right with 2 yards of hurt." Each of these shots will stop on a dime 

 

Which is it? Because I certainly hit a PW 140-145, but I certainly am not hitting a lob wedge from 107 and making it look like butter...

Edited July 23 by suuch

[Pnwpingi210]

Just now, suuch said:

 

Not to derail a thread, but I'm always puzzled by this.

 

On one hand "these guys hit it so much further than us mortals". (( Yes it's about precision ))

On the broadcast "That's a gap wedge from 148 Jim." OR "lob wedge from 107 wind off the right with 2 yards of hurt." Each of these shots will stop on a dime 

 

Which is it? Because I certainly hit a PW 140-145, but I certainly am not hitting a lob wedge from 107 and making it look like butter...

Temperature, Wind, lie, slope all factor in.

 

Thats why I said stock.  145 at sea level, at 80 degree with no wind on flat ground for 47 degrees is enormous and I would wager most that think they hit that really hit it about 135-maybe 140 carry on the best of the best shots

[Pnwpingi210]

4 minutes ago, Birdieputt19 said:

 

All my numbers are validated with sky track averaging 10 shots. I have longer arms and lots of lag, which could explain it.
 

That was my next thought process. I’m not a huge fan of offset so getting the correct wedge loft may be better. 
 

My wedge setup is 52°, 56°, 60°. 128, 114, 100 for yardage. So I’m looking for that 142 number that keeps me at +/- 14 yds per club. I’m not as worried about loft progression with wedges I.e 6° as opposed to 4°. Just want to hit my numbers

Sounds like 46 is the answer 

[Bye]

I would keep the X100 in your wedge, I tried going S400 and had the same issue as you, same kind of distance numbers 
 

sorry haven’t read all of the thread in case this has been mentioned. The Mizuno wedge is likely has a flatter lie angle than your Titleist’s which may be causing the face to open slightly at strike. Get it checked if you plan to keep it. The shaft might be shorter too which would explain the swingweight difference. 

 

The specialist wedges will spin a bit more, it’s why you see most people with a 46 degree Vokey. My last PW was an SM7 Vokey, I have the 620MB now bent to 48 for gapping. 

[Pepperturbo]

6 hours ago, Birdieputt19 said:

I’ve been playing the Titleist 716 CB’s for the last 10 years, and have found of late that I struggle with the partial distances with my PW (47° w/x100). So I recently picked up a Mizuno T24 48° w/s400 and have been testing it out. My dispersion is so much tighter with the Mizuno, and it’s easier for me to use around the green. But I’ve found that I am consistently 5-10+ yards short on any shot.

 

Last night I played at twilight and was hitting shots from 145, my normal set wedge distance. Not a single shot with the Mizuno reached the flag/went past. Had 3 in a row all within 5 yards of each other, but were 12-17 yards short.
 

Has anyone experienced this much of a gap when switching to a specialty wedge? I have not had the loft checked yet (which is most likely the main problem), and am considering bending it strong by 1-2°, but am wondering if the S400 is causing higher spin, making the ball carry less? Im striking the ball solid and Id love to stick with the Mizuno since the dispersion is so much tighter, but am just trying to understand where I’m going wrong. 

The difference might be tied to the CB of 716 PW vs. Mizuno T24 Blade.

 

IMO PW shaft should be the same as the rest of the clubs.  I replaced my set T100 PW (46') with Vokey SM10 46.10F, bent to 47.11 and put in the same Fuji Pro 115i Tour Spec stiff shaft @D3 sw, that's in T100, and works great. Yep, it's 2-3 yds shorter than the T100 PW, but it's consistent and feels right. Same shaft profile as the rest of my irons, only heavier.

 

PS, I had 2i-PW 716 CB in the bag from 2017-2019, before moving to 620 MB. They are fine clubs; never had any issues.

Edited July 23 by Pepperturbo

[Birdieputt19]

10 minutes ago, Bye said:

I would keep the X100 in your wedge, I tried going S400 and had the same issue as you, same kind of distance numbers 
 

sorry haven’t read all of the thread in case this has been mentioned. The Mizuno wedge is likely has a flatter lie angle than your Titleist’s which may be causing the face to open slightly at strike. Get it checked if you plan to keep it. The shaft might be shorter too which would explain the swingweight difference. 

 

The specialist wedges will spin a bit more, it’s why you see most people with a 46 degree Vokey. My last PW was an SM7 Vokey, I have the 620MB now bent to 48 for gapping. 

The Mizuno is the same length but the lie is .5° flatter. The set wedge would occasionally get jumpers to 150+ and I just really don’t want to have to worry about that, but so far I’ve liked everything about the t24 pw except the significant distance loss.

[Bye]

1 minute ago, Birdieputt19 said:

The Mizuno is the same length but the lie is .5° flatter. The set wedge would occasionally get jumpers to 150+ and I just really don’t want to have to worry about that, but so far I’ve liked everything about the t24 pw except the significant distance loss.

In that case I would expect your spin numbers with the CB wedge is on the lower side, it would explain the flyers. I had a set of the 716CB’s they were really good in the wind. I found though that they did launch high with low spin. 
 

It will be worth changing the shaft and playing around with the loft and lie angles, you should be able to make it work.

[Birdieputt19]

11 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

The difference might be tied to the CB of 716 PW vs. Mizuno T24 Blade.

 

IMO PW shaft should be the same as the rest of the clubs.  I replaced my set T100 PW (46') with Vokey SM10 46.10F, bent to 47.11 and put in the same Fuji Pro 115i Tour Spec stiff shaft @D3 sw, that's in T100, and works great. Yep, it's 2-3 yds shorter than the T100 PW, but it's consistent and feels right.

100% agree, I don’t mind losing 2-3 yards if I can hit 5 shots within a 10 yard circle. It’s when I’m loosing 10-15 yds on any given shot that is concerning.

[Ri_Redneck]

28 minutes ago, Birdieputt19 said:

 

All my numbers are validated with sky track averaging 10 shots. I have longer arms and lots of lag, which could explain it.
 

That was my next thought process. I’m not a huge fan of offset so getting the correct wedge loft may be better. 
 

My wedge setup is 52°, 56°, 60°. 128, 114, 100 for yardage. So I’m looking for that 142 number that keeps me at +/- 14 yds per club. I’m not as worried about loft progression with wedges I.e 6° as opposed to 4°. Just want to hit my numbers

I also play 52,56,60 and my next stronger one is 46. I go 52/115, 46/130, 9i/145.

 

BT

[Birdieputt19]

1 minute ago, Bye said:

In that case I would expect your spin numbers with the CB wedge is on the lower side, it would explain the flyers. I had a set of the 716CB’s they were really good in the wind. I found though that they did launch high with low spin. 
 

It will be worth changing the shaft and playing around with the loft and lie angles, you should be able to make it work.

Unfortunately I don’t remember my exact spin number since I did my averages over the winter. But I think they were around the mid 9k mark with a pro v1x. Nothing that stuck out to me as being low. Now when I get on the course and it’s 90°+ it does make more sense why they occasionally fly farther

[Pepperturbo]

5 minutes ago, Birdieputt19 said:

100% agree, I don’t mind losing 2-3 yards if I can hit 5 shots within a 10 yard circle. It’s when I’m loosing 10-15 yds on any given shot that is concerning.

Put the same shaft in the Mizuno as in 716 PW, and see.  

[knock it close]

Bend it to 47 to start and hit a small bucket out of the bunker

[Bye]

11 minutes ago, Birdieputt19 said:

Unfortunately I don’t remember my exact spin number since I did my averages over the winter. But I think they were around the mid 9k mark with a pro v1x. Nothing that stuck out to me as being low. Now when I get on the course and it’s 90°+ it does make more sense why they occasionally fly farther

From a mat, that would be fine. Off grass personally I would say that is a touch low for a PW.