Frequency Tested a Ventus Velocore Blue, 7s - Fairway/5-wood Shaft; Scored lower than expected, closer to a REGULAR FLEX

[Rodmike10]

I purchased a Ventus Blue, 7s shaft with the following specs:

 

Tipped 0.5” / Lamkin Sonar Wrap Standard + Grip / No Adapter; Tip Prepped 1.375” / 41.5” Grip to Tip; Plays @ 42.75” in Ping G430 5 Wood.

 

I had it frequency tested today in a Ping G425 Max 5-wood. It came in at 253 (CPM), which you can see in the chart provided it’s at higher end of regular flex. I was kind of surprised to see this, especially with a premium shaft as such.

 

Does anyone have any insight or color as to why the shaft is closer to being a regular flex as opposed to stiff? There is no serial number on the shaft, but the graphics do match up well with other Ventus images/shafts. 

[Stuart_G]

34 minutes ago, Rodmike10 said:

Does anyone have any insight or color as to why the shaft is closer to being a regular flex as opposed to stiff? There is no serial number on the shaft, but the graphics do match up well with other Ventus images/shafts. 

 

1)  THERE IS NO ONE SINGLE STANDARD FOR FLEX  and butt frequency is actually a terribly inaccurate representation of how a shaft will feel or perform.   Butt frequency can be useful but only in a very limited context - such as matching a new build to an old build that's exactly the same in every other way, checking for asymmetric bending properties of a shaft, and maybe matching stiffness for the irons within a set.

 

2) There are many different variations in how butt frequency can be measured - all of which can have significant effect on the resulting frequency.  So the details of the method used to measure frequency is VERY important before looking at any of the (many) charts that might be out there. 

• clamp size
• clamp pressure
• grip on or off (it really should always be off - yet people keep trying to get measurements with a grip still on the shaft).
• length between clamp and head
• head weight (or swing weight)

 

Even when shaft companies (or good builders) do use butt frequency as a (very) rough guide to flex, all those things above are standardized. They are NOT measuring a built club.  They are measuring the uncut shaft with no grip, a very specific clamp and clamp pressure, with the clamp in a very specific location on the butt (distance from the weight), and with a very specific weight attached to the tip.    All of which is likely very different from what was being measured with your club.   

 

So, sorry to say, the measurement was likely a waste of time - unless maybe you just wanted the value to blueprint the club to be able to reproduce it in a replacement build.   It's not telling you anything about the flex of the shaft or how it will feel or perform.  If you want that, just go hit it and see how it feels.  That's the only thing that matters.

 

 

A little more additional reading on point #1 if you're interested.

https://www.golfwrx.com/73753/wishon-shaft-frequency-can-be-misleading/

 

Edited July 23 by Stuart_G

[Howard_Jones]

43 minutes ago, Rodmike10 said:

I purchased a Ventus Blue, 7s shaft with the following specs:

 

Tipped 0.5” / Lamkin Sonar Wrap Standard + Grip / No Adapter; Tip Prepped 1.375” / 41.5” Grip to Tip; Plays @ 42.75” in Ping G430 5 Wood.

 

I had it frequency tested today in a Ping G425 Max 5-wood. It came in at 253 (CPM), which you can see in the chart provided it’s at higher end of regular flex. I was kind of surprised to see this, especially with a premium shaft as such.

 

Does anyone have any insight or color as to why the shaft is closer to being a regular flex as opposed to stiff? There is no serial number on the shaft, but the graphics do match up well with other Ventus images/shafts. 

Flex letters is only a slot/address in the actual model and weight, absolutly nothing else.
The chart you post, is by that, invalid mo matter shaft model.

But let me ask, was the club measured with, or without grips?
What calibration was used for clmp pressure, and what clamp was used?
Whats the SW value of the club`?

If we absolutly want to judge a shaft by butt CPM, we should start with the FCM system, and then convert the numbers against the average for what we see on the markedplace....

at 42.75" 253 CPM  = FCM 5.1 who makes it "R+ or FÌRM", and the lower end of S, but there is many X flex models softer than that., so the compare should be butt CPM on one model with SIMILAR EI profile as a option to that shaft. If we comparea "High vs Low launch" model from the same "series" we will often see that the high launch model has a stiffer stiffer butt section than its brother model sold as low launch, so its really within a very restricted frames we can use butt CPM to anything here.

Flex letters is simply NOT for compare of flex between different models, ONLY against its OWN model AND weight, so not even within the same brand name is there any standards for "how strong R or S is...True Temper XP 115 R is stronger than True Temper XP 95 S...in steel shafts actual measured flex strengt most often follow weight, while its not like that with graphite shafts, since its the carbonfibers who makes the flex, and they has almost no weight at all. (Resin/Eposy is what delivers weight), but we normally see the same trends, where Grafalloy Booha X (50 grams) is way softer than Grafalloy Blue (White) 65 grams as R flex. In this case NOT due to weight at all, but that one of them is from a light/soft model series, the other from a mid weight very strong shaft model series.

If you like a deep dive into that can of worms, be my guest and just follow this link...
 

 

[Rodmike10]

I appreciate the replies, and education, as I don’t know much about this topic.

 

I tested 2 Ventus Velocore shafts, one Tensei CK Pro, along with 2 Graphite Design shafts, and 4 out of 5 were consistent with expectations (stated stiffness/flex)…yes, they varied, but they were still within “range.”

 

And the 5-wood shaft was the only “outlier.” The other 4 shafts mentioned were driver shafts (fwiw). 

 

So, could it have something to do with how it was trimmed? 

 

I have one more shaft to test, hopefully tomorrow, and it’s a Ventus Velocore+, for a 3-wood. I’m more curious than anything. The cost/time isn’t significant, as the fitter has been kind enough to share his time and equipment with me. 

 

Again, thanks to both of you for your time, and insight. 

[KevCannon]

This sort of topic is definitely all Howard and Stuart.

It probably wouldn’t make a big enough difference if just the butt section was measured, but do u know how much the other shafts were tip trimmed? Generally speaking It was common practice for a 5 wood to be tipped 1.0”.  It wouldn’t bring the frequency up drastically, but was just curious.

[Stuart_G]

 

14 hours ago, Rodmike10 said:

And the 5-wood shaft was the only “outlier.” The other 4 shafts mentioned were driver shafts (fwiw). 

 

Sorry but 1 in 5 doesn't even come close to making it an outlier.    It just means it's more likely related to the different (heavier) head weight and/or shorter playing length (or combination - swing weight).

 

14 hours ago, Rodmike10 said:

So, could it have something to do with how it was trimmed? 

 

Probably not but you haven't answered Howard's questions about how the frequency was measured:

 

15 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

But let me ask, was the club measured with, or without grips?
What calibration was used for clmp pressure, and what clamp was used?
Whats the SW value of the club`?

 

That would be needed if you want to dig any deeper into why.  And even then it might just be related to the design of that particular shaft model.   Although to be honest, that's really a pointless quest.   You still seem to be putting more meaning into the results than they deserve.

Edited July 24 by Stuart_G

[Howard_Jones]

5 hours ago, KevCannon said:

This sort of topic is definitely all Howard and Stuart.

It probably wouldn’t make a big enough difference if just the butt section was measured, but do u know how much the other shafts were tip trimmed? Generally speaking It was common practice for a 5 wood to be tipped 1.0”.  It wouldn’t bring the frequency up drastically, but was just curious.

Graphite woods in general respond with only 1 CPM per 2/8" tip trim, so if we say standard tip trim is 1.0 for a5W, and this club only had 0.5 tip trim, it played 2 CPM (0.2 FCM) softer than standard (If SW value was D2-D3)

253 CPM and FCM 5.1 should have been 255 CPM and FCM 5.3 (at 1.0 tip trim)

Be aware of that all shafts has a weak and a strong side, so its normal to see plus minus 3 CPM on the same shaft model, meaning a lack of 0.5 tip trim, has such a small effect, it might be covered up by how the shaft was installed.

[KevCannon]

5 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

Graphite woods in general respond with only 1 CPM per 2/8" tip trim, so if we say standard tip trim is 1.0 for a5W, and this club only had 0.5 tip trim, it played 2 CPM (0.2 FCM) softer than standard (If SW value was D2-D3)

253 CPM and FCM 5.1 should have been 255 CPM and FCM 5.3 (at 1.0 tip trim)

Be aware of that all shafts has a weak and a strong side, so its normal to see plus minus 3 CPM on the same shaft model, meaning a lack of 0.5 tip trim, has such a small effect, it might be covered up by how the shaft was installed.

Thanks Howard. Like I said, this sort of topic is directly in your wheelhouse.