Measuring GRF's is Overrated

[virtuoso]

This is my entry into a JV knock-off of the infamous Getitdaily's Bunk Series. I would put a request in to have him proclaim to the greater WRX community that GRF Measurements are BUNK.....but I'm sure he wouldn't do it because he's a foot pressure freak, so..

 

Just move your body correctly and the GRF's will take care of themselves.

 

(maybe once you can pretty much tear the cover off the ball, you can turn the plates on and fine tune a little if it makes you feel better.)

 

Tell me I'm wrong!

[rsballer10]

6 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Tell me I'm wrong!

You are wrong 🙂 *end thread*

[AyeAre10]

I think it’s good information from a general sense of improving the industry’s overall knowledge base. Percentages and that to be able to speak to clients about what’s happening when they move correctly.
 

Agree at an individual level that it probably just adds more fog to slow their improvement. 

[rsballer10]

I don't think measuring GRF is bunk. Part of the reason we now know how to shift correctly was because of the research done on pressure plates. Without the data, people could make baseless claims like leaving the pressure /weight on the lead leg, or to swing in a barrel.

 

Now if you are saying it's bunk to use pressure plates in teaching the general public, it's a fair criticism. The fairest one being - how do they work on their game outside of your studio where the pressure plates are? 

 

Lots of things are great research tools, but may not be necessary for instruction.

Edited July 24 by rsballer10

[MK7Golf21]

3 minutes ago, rsballer10 said:

Without the data, people could make baseless claims like leaving the pressure /weight on the lead leg, or to swing in a barrel.

 

 

SnT did that. I mean seems to work ok for short irons at least. 

[rsballer10]

6 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:

 

SnT did that. I mean seems to work ok for short irons at least. 

Yep I was referring to them. Claiming that great players didn't shift to their trail side, and then they got a dose of that science.

 

Edited July 24 by rsballer10

[golferdude54]

I’d love to see a GRF comparison of Tiger in 2000 and Jack in 1972 hitting driver.
 

Tiger jumped his entire left foot off the ground while Jack pivoted around his embedded left heel and spun the toe out.
 

IMO Jack’s was more effective as he was known for being a better driver than Tiger but it’s hard to embed the heel like he did with today’s plastic spikes.
 

That’s why there’s a lot of jumpy footwork in this generation, there’s no metal spikes to keep the heel inside the ground.

[getitdaily]

I like it.

 

I've actually been contemplating a "measured swing data is bunk" thread. So you've given me permission to head down that alley.

 

I agree that measuring grf is overrated...100%. BUT...only because of access to the measuring devices. Last I saw, there are only 32 Gears systems in the US. There are other plate systems but the cost of them basically means they're in use at high cost locations...private clubs and Sim rental venues.

 

The cost to get on gears at amg in Orlando is $500....1 lesson. 

 

It is incredibly difficult to take measured grf data and then improve upon it without an instructor who really knows it and/or constantly getting measured. Getting measured gives you the notions of feel that can send you down a chase to get them right, without the tools to measure. 

 

So, overrated...yes. I played to a +2 or better before launch monitors, before pressure plates, before camera phones and easy access to video capture. A good instructor will destroy a bad instructor who has gadgets galore.

 

However, if one has access to pressure plates and a quality instructor then improvement can be made quicker. To me, they're basically like launch monitors...very useful but not necessary but cost prohibitive (right now?) to be useful.

 

So...they're bunk...until they're not.

[getitdaily]

And yes, I'm a foot pressure freak...because I got measured once and saw what I could be.

 

To your notion of "use your body correctly..." i agree. But this is hard to do for most folks. I watch videos from grf golf on YouTube and I see how they teach body movement and I love their stuff. But I dont see any other folks who post videos of lessons where they're teaching grf through body movement and not relying on plate data much (they have them). 

 

One of the things I learned in my shallowing journey this last year is just how much the club path is guided by where the hips/CoM is going. That's probably been a bigger aha than the data I got from pressure/force plates. 

[Pnwpingi210]

It’s only overrated if you focus solely on the metric.  I think most of us could get pretty high grf if that was the goal in isolation of everything else.

 

Similar to using track man like golf tec does when they cure your slice and tell you are swinging from the inside to out.  What they don’t tell you is they now have you feet aligned 300 yards right of target two fairways over…..then you take it to the course and you realize your still over the top chopping (otherwise you would hit the ball two fairways to the right over) but trackman metrics based on where it’s aligned may not show that

Edited July 24 by Pnwpingi210

[MK7Golf21]

4 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

And yes, I'm a foot pressure freak...because I got measured once and saw what I could be.

 

To your notion of "use your body correctly..." i agree. But this is hard to do for most folks. I watch videos from grf golf on YouTube and I see how they teach body movement and I love their stuff. But I dont see any other folks who post videos of lessons where they're teaching grf through body movement and not relying on plate data much (they have them). 

 

One of the things I learned in my shallowing journey this last year is just how much the club path is guided by where the hips/CoM is going. That's probably been a bigger aha than the data I got from pressure/force plates. 

 

regarding just pressure plates, I went to some facility in Chicago around 2013 or so that had every gadget available for you to use. I think it was setup for instructors to rent and help their students, I just wanted to get on a trackman to see some stuff I was working on with my instructor.

 

However, while I was on trackman I was hitting push shots which was sort of my miss under this instructor. Tried out the pressure plates they had, which also had a dual view camera setup (dtl, face on) and noticed my pressure trace was in to out. Had no idea what I was doing but worked on making my pressure trace more linear which fixed the push shot and got me staying in posture better. I remember being pretty happy seeing the ball flight straighten and the camera angles looking so much cleaner on my rotation and posture just by working on my pressure trace.

[Mark58]

I think it can be useful for instructors when working with advanced students and high level golfers who may compete in various tours and/or tournaments. I imagine they are all being measured now with the advanced technology these days. It does appear to be the current flavor in you tube instruction.

 

For weekend chops like myself, it can be minefield. That said, I paid three different instructors and not one showed my how to move correctly, something I am now working out myself. Positions only go so far.

[Valtiel]

23 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

So, overrated...yes. I played to a +2 or better before launch monitors, before pressure plates, before camera phones and easy access to video capture.

And you drank from the hose and turned out fine! 😆

[getitdaily]

4 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:

 

regarding just pressure plates, I went to some facility in Chicago around 2013 or so that had every gadget available for you to use. I think it was setup for instructors to rent and help their students, I just wanted to get on a trackman to see some stuff I was working on with my instructor.

 

However, while I was on trackman I was hitting push shots which was sort of my miss under this instructor. Tried out the pressure plates they had, which also had a dual view camera setup (dtl, face on) and noticed my pressure trace was in to out. Had no idea what I was doing but worked on making my pressure trace more linear which fixed the push shot and got me staying in posture better. I remember being pretty happy seeing the ball flight straighten and the camera angles looking so much cleaner on my rotation and posture just by working on my pressure trace.

Yep! I ended up figuring that out the old-fashioned way...trial and error. It was validated in a couple TPI videos where Greg rose told a couple of guys to "surf the CoM left". That's what I was doing and just didn't have a term for it.

 

And actually, what started that exploration for me was seeing a pressure trace video on dj. The guy said "dj gets into his lead heel faster than anyone else". I thought..."I'm a fader, maybe I should do that". Off I went exploring. 

[getitdaily]

6 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

And you drank from the hose and turned out fine! 😆

I did. But Im super body aware. Im super coordinated. Im well above avg in ability. I think there's a certain skill level you have to be at before you can venture down that road mostly alone.

 

All.of that stuff has increased my knowledge of the swing and overall movements. But that doesn't mean doing the right stuff is any easier...

Edited July 24 by getitdaily

[MK7Golf21]

1 minute ago, getitdaily said:

Yep! I ended up figuring that out the old-fashioned way...trial and error. It was validated in a couple TPI videos where Greg rose told a couple of guys to "surf the CoM left". That's what I was doing and just didn't have a term for it.

 

And actually, what started that exploration for me was seeing a pressure trace video on dj. The guy said "dj gets into his lead heel faster than anyone else". I thought..."I'm a fader, maybe I should do that". Off I went exploring. 

 

Yeah, I have seen those TPI vid's of Greg Rose showing people who EE to pressure trace basically out to in vs. in to out with EE. I think that pressure trace will actually make one fade it if you start to have a trace like that but maybe need the exaggeration at first. I've tried it and starts to get fade biased for me, prefer more linear. 

[getitdaily]

Just now, MK7Golf21 said:

 

Yeah, I have seen those TPI vid's of Greg Rose showing people who EE to pressure trace basically out to in vs. in to out with EE. I think that pressure trace will actually make one fade it if you start to have a trace like that but maybe need the exaggeration at first. I've tried it and starts to get fade biased for me, prefer more linear. 

You've seen my old swing. Feet set way open. That's how i did it. Part of my discovery this winter to get less steep was to learn how to fire left and rotate from a more neutral setup and an on-plane takeaway....and still hit a cut.

 

CoM surfing left was CRITICAL. What resulted has just been fantastic. 

[Pnwpingi210]

26 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

I did. But Im super body aware. Im super coordinated. Im well above avg in ability. I think there's a certain skill level you have to be at before you can venture down that road mostly alone.

 

All.of that stuff has increased my knowledge of the swing and overall movements. But that doesn't mean doing the right stuff is any easier...

And super modest!

[sundaypins]

1 hour ago, virtuoso said:

Just move your body correctly and the GRF's will take care of themselves.  Tell me I'm wrong!

 

Not wrong at all, probably 95% derived from mental-intention based stimulus driving requested movements.   Golf is a hands and feet game, everything else is just a discussion and sales pitch.  

[getitdaily]

2 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

And super modest!

Im candid. I understand that I have ability that most don't. There's myopathy in that when it comes to explaining things I do to others.

[Pnwpingi210]

2 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Im candid. I understand that I have ability that most don't. There's myopathy in that when it comes to explaining things I do to others.

It was mostly a joke.

 

in serious to your responses.  It’s subjective.  I’m not certain those statements are objectively true in the post I originally responded to are true, but it’s your opinion and you are entitled to it.

[getitdaily]

4 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

It was mostly a joke.

 

in serious to your responses.  It’s subjective.  I’m not certain those statements are objectively true in the post I originally responded to are true, but it’s your opinion and you are entitled to it.

I took no offense. I dish it around here...have to be able to handle it too.

[joedizzy1978]

Have the correct ideas on how to use the club, then recruit the body and arms to execute…..

1 hour ago, virtuoso said:

and the GRF's will take care of themselves

 

 Having the information, then playing footsy is bunk

[tatertot]

1 hour ago, virtuoso said:

This is my entry into a JV knock-off of the infamous Getitdaily's Bunk Series. I would put a request in to have him proclaim to the greater WRX community that GRF Measurements are BUNK.....but I'm sure he wouldn't do it because he's a foot pressure freak, so..

 

Just move your body correctly and the GRF's will take care of themselves.

 

(maybe once you can pretty much tear the cover off the ball, you can turn the plates on and fine tune a little if it makes you feel better.)

 

Tell me I'm wrong!

I have no idea what the OP is talking about ... and I think I will continue on with my ignorance.

[virtuoso]

 

2 hours ago, getitdaily said:

One of the things I learned in my shallowing journey this last year is just how much the club path is guided by where the hips/CoM is going. That's probably been a bigger aha than the data I got from pressure/force plates. 

Oh yes....a thousand times yes.

[virtuoso]

1 hour ago, tatertot said:

I have no idea what the OP is talking about ... and I think I will continue on with my ignorance.

I once knew a guy who's last name was Tator and his nickname was "Tater" so....Tater Tator. And he would become kinda annoyed if you pronounced them exactly the same. It had to sound like Tater "taTOR". 

[virtuoso]

1 hour ago, sundaypins said:

 

Not wrong at all, probably 95% derived from mental-intention based stimulus driving requested movements.   Golf is a hands and feet game, everything else is just a discussion and sales pitch.  

You kinda dumbed down my statement, but that's fine.

[MonteScheinblum]

3 hours ago, virtuoso said:

This is my entry into a JV knock-off of the infamous Getitdaily's Bunk Series. I would put a request in to have him proclaim to the greater WRX community that GRF Measurements are BUNK.....but I'm sure he wouldn't do it because he's a foot pressure freak, so..

 

Just move your body correctly and the GRF's will take care of themselves.

 

(maybe once you can pretty much tear the cover off the ball, you can turn the plates on and fine tune a little if it makes you feel better.)

 

Tell me I'm wrong!

Correct.  Just move bettter.

[virtuoso]

15 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Correct.  Just move bettter.

I'm trying to self sabotage my technical street cred and you just ruined it.

[virtuoso]

35 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

 

Oh yes....a thousand times yes.

Furthermore, I might give someone permission to get on my plates if they said they were doing it mostly for path work.