So Indecisive. So, so indecisive.

[ScooterMcTavish]

As I'm having my every two years putting crisis (which comes now twice a year), I went to the big box store for an hour the other day and rolled putters with no preconceptions of what I'd like.

 

For some background, I happily played a Spider X short slant happily for two years (also purchased with no preconceptions).  Loved the insert, and the bit of toe hang and small offset suited my eye.  However, my eyesight changed last year (right eye becoming less dominant) and I kept losing alignment and started missing everything left.  Switched to a Ping Sigma 2 Kushin C centre-shafted putter, and started making everything.

 

Well, a few months into this year, my eyesight seemed to have changed again, and I started missing everything right with the Kushin.  Looks like I need a short slant neck again.

 

At the store, I tried all variety of mallets and blades.  Crank hosels I pulled left.  Straight shafts I pushed right.  And at the end of my trials, there were two clear "best" putters for me, but I am now a bit confused.

 

The absolute best was the Odyssey Ai-One Wingback (only comes in a DB) which felt lovely and rolled smooth.  Balls almost seemed to be drawn to the hole like there was a magnet.  Not truly a slant hosel, but only appears to have about 1/2 a shaft width offset like a short slant.

 

The very close runner up was the Cleveland Frontline Elite Rho in a short slant.  It only rolled marginally worse than the Odyssey, surprising as it does have some toe-hang vs the Odyssey.  Both had great distance control.

In trying to make a decision, I did make a list of Pros and Cons for each as follows:

Odyssey:

Pros: Best performance, Ai-ONE insert is fantastic, good stock grip

Cons: Ugly, I mean will never get any chicks with this putter.  Looks like a wounded turtle or 2/3rds of an airplane drawn by a 5 year old.

 

Cleveland:

Pros: Excellent performance, $90 CAD cheaper than the Odyssey, slightly better looking

Cons: Grip not as nice, still ugly though not as ugly as the Odyssey

 

I'm kind of torn, as I seem to do OK with some toe hang (Cleveland) but also do well with face balanced putters.  I've also noticed my SBST stroke is now a little more ABAT, which seems to work well with either design.  Plus they both have changeable toe weights, which should allow me to add or remove toe hang if necessary.

 

 

Welcome the thoughts of others on these two as possible candidates.  Also of note, I am price-point conscious, and the $350 CAD ($250 USD) for the Ai-ONE putters right now is about my spending max.

 

 

 

 

[MattM97]

I think you answered which to get on your last paragraph. 

[BombsIntoTheWoods]

If you think they are both ugly, I wouldnt get either of them personally. If you dont actually like it, it wont last.

[ScooterMcTavish]

58 minutes ago, MattM97 said:

I think you answered which to get on your last paragraph. 

 

I wish I had.  Unless you are suggesting the second-last paragraph, where a bit more arc on my stroke may make the Cleveland a better choice (at least in stock form). 

 

44 minutes ago, BombsIntoTheWoods said:

If you think they are both ugly, I wouldnt get either of them personally. If you dont actually like it, it wont last.

 

I've learned over the years that aesthetics are important to me as a golfer.  That being said, my preferred putter (shiny double-wide blade) simply doesn't work for me, regardless of toe hang or hosel.  Currently playing an old Sabretooth right now; if I can game that, pretty sure I can game anything.

 

Honestly the Rho isn't horrible.  Just not sure I can get past the looks of the Odyssey.

[ScooterMcTavish]

I gave this some further thought yesterday, and realized my indecisiveness related directly to the fact that I wasn't sold on either putter.

17 hours ago, BombsIntoTheWoods said:

If you think they are both ugly, I wouldnt get either of them personally. If you dont actually like it, it wont last.

 

This is the important part here.  Although we all say "play what works", I believe every serious golfer has a slight bit of vanity towards their bag, and will generally golf better with clubs they like.  And when they like them, they will actually invest the time and effort to make them work, and do whatever adjustments are necessary.  I recently committed to a long-term set of irons after switching sets annually, and invested the time and money in regripping and having the lies adjusted.

 

17 hours ago, MattM97 said:

I think you answered which to get on your last paragraph. 

 

Still find this rather cryptic @MattM97, so I took this to mean that neither was really the right putter, or either would have been fine.

So I took this as the first, that neither was the right putter.  To me, it was apparent that something similar to my old Spider X might be the best possible fit, in terms of toe hang, weight, and lie.  And since I absolutely love the Ai-ONE insert, I did the logical thing, and ordered an Ai-ONE Jailbird Mini S even though I've never stroked one.  

 

Jailbird is the only Odyssey mallet head I like the look of, and I have hit it a few times.  However, I did not like the Sq2Sq (forward press caused aiming issues), did not like it as a face-balanced model (would lose face angle), and did not like the crank hosel (too much offset).  But versus the Spider X, the toe hang is within 2º (32º vs 30º), weight is within 5g (360g vs 355g), and lie (70º) and loft (3º) are identical.   

 

Sometimes thinking out loud to the Wrx community is helpful, and I believe this is one of those times.. 

[rsballer10]

I would say find a place that has motion capture/putt lab kind of fitting tools. A lot of times what works in the store is by happenstance and doesn't translate to the course. If you can find something you align and stroke on target, you at least have a reasonable expectation that it can be replicated on real grass.

[MattM97]

1 hour ago, ScooterMcTavish said:

I gave this some further thought yesterday, and realized my indecisiveness related directly to the fact that I wasn't sold on either putter.

 

This is the important part here.  Although we all say "play what works", I believe every serious golfer has a slight bit of vanity towards their bag, and will generally golf better with clubs they like.  And when they like them, they will actually invest the time and effort to make them work, and do whatever adjustments are necessary.  I recently committed to a long-term set of irons after switching sets annually, and invested the time and money in regripping and having the lies adjusted.

 

 

Still find this rather cryptic @MattM97, so I took this to mean that neither was really the right putter, or either would have been fine.

So I took this as the first, that neither was the right putter.  To me, it was apparent that something similar to my old Spider X might be the best possible fit, in terms of toe hang, weight, and lie.  And since I absolutely love the Ai-ONE insert, I did the logical thing, and ordered an Ai-ONE Jailbird Mini S even though I've never stroked one.  

 

Jailbird is the only Odyssey mallet head I like the look of, and I have hit it a few times.  However, I did not like the Sq2Sq (forward press caused aiming issues), did not like it as a face-balanced model (would lose face angle), and did not like the crank hosel (too much offset).  But versus the Spider X, the toe hang is within 2º (32º vs 30º), weight is within 5g (360g vs 355g), and lie (70º) and loft (3º) are identical.   

 

Sometimes thinking out loud to the Wrx community is helpful, and I believe this is one of those times.. 

 

It's not really cryptic, you said the Odyssey is out of your budget and you're extremely price conscious so that would obviously eliminate it from your decision. If you still like it then the price limit has to be broken. 

 

A lot of the time people here think out loud in their posts and post the answer they're looking for without realizing it. Thats how I'm seeing it here with price point. If that wasn't a factor I wouldn't have mentioned it. 

[ScooterMcTavish]

1 minute ago, MattM97 said:

 

It's not really cryptic, you said the Odyssey is out of your budget and you're extremely price conscious so that would obviously eliminate it from your decision. If you still like it then the price limit has to be broken. 

 

A lot of the time people here think out loud in their posts and post the answer they're looking for without realizing it. Thats how I'm seeing it here with price point. If that wasn't a factor I wouldn't have mentioned it. 

 

Hi Matt, sorry I must not have been clear.  I wanted to cap my budget at $350 CAD (Odyssey price), lest someone come in and suggest I needed a Spider Tour X, L.A.B., Scottie, or Bettinardi.  Budget is a artificial construct for gear regardless, but I find that setting a number makes me really question if going over it actually returns equivalent value.

And although $90 is still $90, it is actually small dollars overall in playing this sport.  And as I reminded myself when pulling the trigger, I'd rather spend $90 versus wondering "what if".  This game is mental enough as it is.

[MattM97]

Just now, ScooterMcTavish said:

 

Hi Matt, sorry I must not have been clear.  I wanted to cap my budget at $350 CAD (Odyssey price), lest someone come in and suggest I needed a Spider Tour X, L.A.B., Scottie, or Bettinardi.  Budget is a artificial construct for gear regardless, but I find that setting a number makes me really question if going over it actually returns equivalent value.

And although $90 is still $90, it is actually small dollars overall in playing this sport.  And as I reminded myself when pulling the trigger, I'd rather spend $90 versus wondering "what if".  This game is mental enough as it is.

 

Gotcha, then my original comment was irrelevant if the Odyssey is your max price. 

 

I get that what if part, if you can go back to the store at random, just roll both again and see which one you roll well without much thought or effort. 

[ScooterMcTavish]

59 minutes ago, rsballer10 said:

I would say find a place that has motion capture/putt lab kind of fitting tools. A lot of times what works in the store is by happenstance and doesn't translate to the course. If you can find something you align and stroke on target, you at least have a reasonable expectation that it can be replicated on real grass.

 

Read a suggestion on this board to go look at Bruce Rearick's Blog regarding the nine types of putting strokes (Burnt Edges Consulting).  A very light read, and there's a lot of good stuff in there.

 

What stuck out to me was one post where he discussed two types of putters - engineers and artists.  Engineers are locked into tech, specs, etc.  Artists are less locked into stats and metrics, and more into feel. 

 

 https://bargolfinstruction.blogspot.com/2019/01/putting-strategies-artist-or-engineer.html

 

I am certainly more on the artist side, and have finally set up a bag where I am happy with the combination of aesthetics, feel, and performance.  Could I tweak a few clubs/shafts to get better numbers?  Sure, but after a decade of futzing, I'm finally at a point where I genuinely like my bag, and love the feel of every club in it. 

For the final purchase decision, it was made due to a comfort level with the aesthetics and feel.  There is a "spec" consideration as well, but this is mainly ensuring the club fits in the general wheelhouse of one I've enjoyed in the past (like using CPM as a gauge for trying a shaft).  

 

Optimistic about the choice made, but will report back when it arrives next week.

 

[Ben B]

To me, both of those putters look nearly the same. And if it is truly boiled down to those two, and you don't like the way they look, I'd spend the least amount of money. 

 

That being said, have you eliminated the possibility that your head position has not creeper in one direction or the other? Certainly eye dominance plays a significant role in aligment, but head position can exacerbate or even imitate eye dominance. 

 

I have occasional issues with my upper back/should blade on my left side and it pulls on my neck. This causes my head to slightly lean and twist to my left side. I did not notice this until I was watching a video (face on) of my swing as I was also having some issues with hitting some shots left that I felt were good swings. At the same time I was struggling a bit on the greens, particularly from short range. Low and behold, it was all stemming from this subtle change in my head position which was also pulling my shoulders out of alignment. 

 

I now check this quite often. Video and putting mirrors are such great tools to use. 

[ScooterMcTavish]

6 minutes ago, MattM97 said:

Gotcha, then my original comment was irrelevant if the Odyssey is your max price. 

 

I get that what if part, if you can go back to the store at random, just roll both again and see which one you roll well without much thought or effort. 

 

As you might have missed, I did drop an order for a Jailbird Mini S last night, which was not one of the two original choices.  @BombsIntoTheWoods reminded me that I have to like the aesthetics of any club I am going to play.

As @rsballer10 also highlighted, putting on a flat mat in the store does not always translate to on course performance.  It is easy to "pick a line" at the store, and much tougher in real life.  So unfortunately, the only way to really test this out is to take a leap of faith that I know enough about the club to like it (insert, head shape, grip, specs) and try to translate this into performance.  Being in my 50s, I'm learning to be a little more accepting of physical changes and how they change what works on course.  

Looking very much forward to getting the putter here and out next week, as even a change in look and feel is sorely needed to stave off the "y" word.  After missing 3 makeable (10', straight) birdie putts last week, and after three-putting two greens due to missing badly lagged 4' putts, I need to do something.  

[ScooterMcTavish]

7 minutes ago, Ben B said:

That being said, have you eliminated the possibility that your head position has not creeper in one direction or the other? Certainly eye dominance plays a significant role in aligment, but head position can exacerbate or even imitate eye dominance. 

 

I try to be very diligent about my setup, and follow the tip of setting the club first and feet second.  However, I do feel like I am manipulating the face angle when over the ball as my eyes may want me to slightly adjust my line.

 

What has made this especially challenging is that it is variable on a day-to-day basis.  Have I been doing a lot of close-up computer work?  If yes, my right eye is clearly dominant.  Have I been doing very little close-up work or reading?  If yes, my eyes are more ambi-dominant. 

 

Unfortunately I may be getting to the point where I have to wear prescription glasses 100% of the time, even though I technically only "need" glasses for reading. 
 

[rsballer10]

20 minutes ago, ScooterMcTavish said:

 

I try to be very diligent about my setup, and follow the tip of setting the club first and feet second.  However, I do feel like I am manipulating the face angle when over the ball as my eyes may want me to slightly adjust my line.

 

What has made this especially challenging is that it is variable on a day-to-day basis.  Have I been doing a lot of close-up computer work?  If yes, my right eye is clearly dominant.  Have I been doing very little close-up work or reading?  If yes, my eyes are more ambi-dominant. 

 

Unfortunately I may be getting to the point where I have to wear prescription glasses 100% of the time, even though I technically only "need" glasses for reading. 
 

Have you tried some of Brad Faxon's putting tips? Seems like you could stand to be freed up over the ball on the greens.

[ScooterMcTavish]

1 hour ago, rsballer10 said:

Have you tried some of Brad Faxon's putting tips? Seems like you could stand to be freed up over the ball on the greens.

 

Interestingly enough, back when I played the Spider X I had done exactly this.  Didn't worry as much about having my SBST be as "S" as possible, which allowed me to relax the arms and shoulders.  Trying to hold a perfect SBST stroke when you're clutching the putter for dear life is not going to result in a good stroke.

Will go review his tips and try some out on the putting green.  

[ScooterMcTavish]

Just updating the thread with the general degeneracy all WRXers seem to have.

 

As mentioned above, I ordered the Ai-ONE Jailbird Mini S from a Canadian retailer.  They offer a 10% discount off of pretty much everything, so picked it up for $315 CAD/$230 USD.  Should be arriving Wednesday.

 

And as of today, I get an e-mail from my local big box that the Frontline Elite has now dropped to $199 CAD/$145 USD.  So of course, I ordered one of these.  But since I ordered the Odyssey in a slant neck (instead of DB), I ordered the Cleveland in a face-balanced single bend to provide some contrast.  Actually prefer this model with the thicker alignment line and thicker grip.

 

Looking forward to testing the two of them out, and sharing the results.  

[ScooterMcTavish]

First update.

 

Despite ordering the Frontline last, it arrived yesterday, just in time for a league round last night.

 

First impressions were good.  Although I thought I'd prefer the thicker alignment line, it is a bit visually jarring, and I may lay some pinstripes or something on it to black it out a bit.

 

 

Positives:

- Very stable with a clearly high MOI

- The sink-fit oversize pistol grip is fantastic, and helps quiet the hands. 

- Good shape for alignment

- Insert is a nice "just right", not too soft, not too firm

- Strikes feel consistently good, even if the ball is not in the centre of the face

 

Negatives:

- The putter feels a bit lightweight, so I felt I had to swing it more firmly than I am used to

- The alignment "line" is a bit much

 

Results:

Total of 15 putts for 9 holes, versus the 21 I hung up last week.  No 3-putts, and all but one lag putt was in "pick it up" distance.  Had two putts under 8' which I felt I should have made but didn't, but I did make the third 8', likely as I saw I was missing left and adjusted my aim.

 

Special thanks to @rsballer10 as I certainly felt more loose on the greens last night.  Having a new putter with low expectations certainly helps.  But I also quit obsessing about my form and staying SBST, and just let the swing flow freely while concentrating on distance.  And I wasn't far off, as I left three putts of 15' and over within one inch of the cup with good weight, just slightly offline. 

 

Will also order some heavier weights, and try experimenting in making the putter heavier, and adding some toe hang.

 

Not a bad start.

[rsballer10]

14 minutes ago, ScooterMcTavish said:

Special thanks to @rsballer10 as I certainly felt more loose on the greens last night.  Having a new putter with low expectations certainly helps.  But I also quit obsessing about my form and staying SBST, and just let the swing flow freely while concentrating on distance.  And I wasn't far off, as I left three putts of 15' and over within one inch of the cup with good weight, just slightly offline

Glad it's working out for you!