Effect of Hands Higher at Impact?

[Birdman03]

Looking at both my strike pattern on the driver face and my DTL videos I note that my hands and the club are quite a bit higher than where they were at address (see picture).  The clubhead is slightly toe-down at impact.

 

I am wondering if this is a concern and if I could improve strike quality by using a driver with a flatter lie angle and/or getting the hands lower at impact.  The impact tape in the picture is after 20 hits where I was hitting slight draws with good numbers on the LM.

 

 

[iacas]

Almost everyone returns the hands a little higher than they were at setup, and as I mentioned to Andrew Rice like 15 years ago, if that was the trick… you'd just set your hands higher at setup. 🙂 

 

This is IMO way, way down on the list of things you should worry about or work on right now.

 

Also, even at your swing speed, the head is going to droop a good bit. That's normal.

 

Edited July 27 by iacas

[DaveLeeNC]

I am going to add two more interesting lines to compare (in red). 

 

dave

Edited July 27 by DaveLeeNC

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, DaveLeeNC said:

I am going to add two more interesting lines to compare (in red). 

 

dave

 

Yes.

 

Improving that will have several other good effects, probably including the handle being a bit lower.

[MonteScheinblum]

33 minutes ago, Birdman03 said:

Looking at both my strike pattern on the driver face and my DTL videos I note that my hands and the club are quite a bit higher than where they were at address (see picture).  The clubhead is slightly toe-down at impact.

 

I am wondering if this is a concern and if I could improve strike quality by using a driver with a flatter lie angle and/or getting the hands lower at impact.  The impact tape in the picture is after 20 hits where I was hitting slight draws with good numbers on the LM.

 

 

The high hands isn’t the issue as @iacas said.  How you got there could be an issue.

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

 

Yes.

 

Improving that will have several other good effects, probably including the handle being a bit lower.

Yep…even my untrained eyes wanted to add if the op didn’t raise the handle he might whiff it off the heel with that stand up move.

[biker74]

Please listen to Monte and Iacas.Love reading their posts

[golferdude54]

I find it funny how a lot of people completely overlook what their body is doing when they’re concerned about a certain club position. It reminds me of the cross-eyed shooter in Spaceballs.
 

[Birdman03]

2 hours ago, golferdude54 said:

I find it funny how a lot of people completely overlook what their body is doing when they’re concerned about a certain club position. It reminds me of the cross-eyed shooter in Spaceballs.
 

In my case I am definitely aware that I am coming out of posture at impact.  I could focus on that, but fortunately I am able to fairly consistently put good driver hits on the ball and achieve nice trajectories with what I am doing now.

 

I had a lesson recently and was told to set up closed to the target to promote more rotation toward the trail side.  When I combine that with a good wrist set I hit the ball well.

 

It is possible that this change has caused me to stand up at impact more than I did previously.  Looking at my older videos that is what I am seeing.

[MonteScheinblum]

3 hours ago, Birdman03 said:

In my case I am definitely aware that I am coming out of posture at impact.  I could focus on that, but fortunately I am able to fairly consistently put good driver hits on the ball and achieve nice trajectories with what I am doing now.

 

I had a lesson recently and was told to set up closed to the target to promote more rotation toward the trail side.  When I combine that with a good wrist set I hit the ball well.

 

It is possible that this change has caused me to stand up at impact more than I did previously.  Looking at my older videos that is what I am seeing.

You don’t work on coming out of posture.  You address why you are.

[TheDeanAbides]

4 hours ago, Birdman03 said:

In my case I am definitely aware that I am coming out of posture at impact.  I could focus on that, but fortunately I am able to fairly consistently put good driver hits on the ball and achieve nice trajectories with what I am doing now.

 

I had a lesson recently and was told to set up closed to the target to promote more rotation toward the trail side.  When I combine that with a good wrist set I hit the ball well.

 

It is possible that this change has caused me to stand up at impact more than I did previously.  Looking at my older videos that is what I am seeing.

It sounds to me like you're getting mixed up with process focus and result focus, and that's a recipe for confusion, not really progressing and ending up with more problems down the line. You don't want to change because you're currently hitting the ball okay, but that's going to be temporary with the move you're putting on it. 

 

At some point you're going to need a new compensation or you're going to have to bite the bullet and make a better, more efficient, move. 

[GoGoErky]

6 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

At some point you're going to need a new compensation or you're going to have to bite the bullet and make a better, more efficient, move. 

Yep. Work on the mechanics and create feels from them. 

[Birdman03]

11 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Yep. Work on the mechanics and create feels from them. 

Very good advice.  I have a lesson coming up soon and I will see what he says about my posture issue.

 

I agree with the consensus here - I am making a problematic move but can still hit the ball well by "timing up" various compensations.  That won't be reliable long-term.  I have noticed that I always hit a couple of weak slicey drives during every round when I lose my timing.

[KMeloney]

17 hours ago, Birdman03 said:

I am wondering if this is a concern and if I could improve strike quality by using a driver with a flatter lie angle and/or getting the hands lower at impact.

Did you mean to say "...a driver with a more UPRIGHT lie angle..."? It's already way toe-down at impact in your swing.

 

Adjusting lie angles flatter points the loft more to the right, and adjusting them upright points the loft more to the left. Presenting the club head toe-down will point the loft more to the right -- so, it can be a concern in that regard (although the reasons why you deliver the club head like that should be your main concern).

 

It looks like your driver has an adjustable hosel. Can't you adjust the lie angle through it and see if a more upright angle helps your ball flight?

[Birdman03]

4 minutes ago, KMeloney said:

Did you mean to say "...a driver with a more UPRIGHT lie angle..."? It's already way toe-down at impact in your swing.

 

Adjusting lie angles flatter points the loft more to the right, and adjusting them upright points the loft more to the left. Presenting the club head toe-down will point the loft more to the right -- so, it can be a concern in that regard (although the reasons why you deliver the club head like that should be your main concern).

 

It looks like your driver has an adjustable hosel. Can't you adjust the lie angle through it and see if a more upright angle helps your ball flight?

Thanks for the clarification.  That driver is a Rogue 13.5 deg with the hosel on N and S settings.  It can be adjusted from -1 to +2.

 

At this point I am going to leave the settings alone and concentrate on my swing issues.

[Birdman03]

1 hour ago, Birdman03 said:

Very good advice.  I have a lesson coming up soon and I will see what he says about my posture issue.

 

I agree with the consensus here - I am making a problematic move but can still hit the ball well by "timing up" various compensations.  That won't be reliable long-term.  I have noticed that I always hit a couple of weak slicey drives during every round when I lose my timing.

Looking at the videos I sent to the pro for analysis I see that things look to be going awry in my takeaway.  My arms and the club stay close to my body so I have to stand up to create some room before impact.  This problem may be exacerbated by the closed set up.

[KMeloney]

1 hour ago, Birdman03 said:

I have noticed that I always hit a couple of weak slicey drives during every round when I lose my timing.

Incidentally, whereas your feet look closed at set up, your shoulders aren't. They might be square at best, and open at worst. That disparity probably isn't helping you.