Creating space is bunk!

[ThinkingPlus]

9 minutes ago, airjammer said:

We are all in a simulation so none of it matters

Now that is bunk...

[MonteScheinblum]

The demonstration was a little off because I didn’t understand things as well then as I do now, but this is from 13 years ago.

 

 

[Shilgy]

11 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

This video is why these two drills are so helpful.

 

Been teaching both for 10+ years.  
 

It’s so funny, the narrative has been passive arms early and shove hands in front for the ball late.  As Denis Lemieux said….”All Bad!”…….You feel shame.”

 

First one gets hands to where they should be, then rotation gats hands passed the ]ball.  When people see how much shaft lean they get with drill 1, their heads spin and say, “I never do this, I’m trying to shove my hands in front of the ball and hold off the release.”
 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CnHtR2hoW-W/?igsh=MXYwMDN2Mm1qb3k3ZQ==

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DIXBjwKzLNT/?igsh=bGVndXB5amt5aWE0

The first drill here is what an instructor I was seeing a few years back had me doing.  Partly anyways.  Guessing I was in the arms late camp and he had me take swings where it felt like the club was back to impact before the body moved. So it skipped the shift part which I may have been doing and went straight to the get the club down and then rotate.

[biker74]

1 hour ago, CTgamer said:

I know this is a bit of a joke lol, but I don’t see anything in either video as contradictory…does it come across that way to you?

Would love to see a “recommended” body degree positions by age. How far open, weight pressures,tilt,, how far to swing to the right, .. degrees recommendations by age would be prefect.At 61, I’m sure never going to be able to be as open as 20 year old.These AMG videos are great.But having a base guideline for age groups would be super beneficial  

[KMeloney]

3 hours ago, airjammer said:

At one time Amg was the one pushing that type of swing. Anyone remember the video where they described holding a students shoulders closed while asking him to get the club to the ball and he couldn’t do it until the golfer pulled his arms off his/her chest and forward in front of his/her midline? They were heavy teaching arms first..

That video was not at odds with the video at the start of this thread. In that video they just wanted to show that many ams' misconception of how to start the downswing [by moving the trail shoulder out and over] can have them literally unable to move if someone holds their shoulder back. 

[johnrobison]

50 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

The demonstration was a little off because I didn’t understand things as well then as I do now, but this is from 13 years ago.

 

 

And a very nice pressing on those trousers, my friend!

[CTgamer]

26 minutes ago, biker74 said:

Would love to see a “recommended” body degree positions by age. How far open, weight pressures,tilt,, how far to swing to the right, .. degrees recommendations by age would be prefect.At 61, I’m sure never going to be able to be as open as 20 year old.These AMG videos are great.But having a base guideline for age groups would be super beneficial  

I don’t necessarily disagree, but even if you broke it out by age group, I don’t think it would be that different. Maybe small discrepancies, that probably have more to do with muscle strength and explosiveness vs range of motion *for most.* It’s also the case that grip, wrist, and forearm strength is a MUCH MUCH more limiting factor for most golfers than their mobility. 

 

This vid does a great job at quantifying just how, or how not, mobile you need to be to make a tour level swing

 

 

[MonteScheinblum]

9 minutes ago, johnrobison said:

And a very nice pressing on those trousers, my friend!

MC Hammer called me from the 80’s and wanted his pants back.

[Scottbox]

1 hour ago, MonteScheinblum said:

The demonstration was a little off because I didn’t understand things as well then as I do now, but this is from 13 years ago.

 

 

Dude those pants are back in fashion. 

[johnrobison]

2 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

MC Hammer called me from the 80’s and wanted his pants back.

Or maybe Alex P Keaton. Those pants are choice!

1 hour ago, Scottbox said:

Dude those pants are back in fashion. 

This is true

[iacas]

Oh boy. A lot (without being much at all) to catch up on here.

 

11 hours ago, airjammer said:

Maybe for the next video they can enlighten us on why swing to the right was usually accompanied by early extension and how to fix it.

 

This video doesn't encourage you to swing to the right (not more so than to deliver a relatively neutral path), so I'm not sure what you're saying there.

 

11 hours ago, airjammer said:

Kinda interesting that the more technology we have the more it seems like the old timers without technology had it figured out just as much as we do today with technology because in the end all of this 3-D data is just putting numbers to something someone can see visually. 

 

There are dozens and dozens of things technology has proven incorrect from what people used to think. Heck, well known instructors even got the most basic things down — like the ball flight laws or that you didn't "compress the ball against the ground" were wrong for decades.

 

Why are so many people intent on trying to prove that some old dead guy was actually right about something instead of just learning what we can learn as newer and newer tech is available? The old guys weren't completely wrong… but they weren't right about everything, either.

 

10 hours ago, Hilts1969 said:

Because if you tell someone to swing to right field in the downswing that's what they will do EE and drop the right shoulder because you have to do that from the top to achieve that goal.

 

If however you connect your right elbow first the club has shallowed so youre coming from a completely different place. I dont think AMG can be held responsible for people ignoring the majority of the video they have just watched. .

 

Bingo.

 

10 hours ago, airjammer said:

💯 it can but let into what the reality of the situation is, to get to the positions they have been talking about in this video, you need your hips open 45 degrees per Shawn. That’s literally just most women, most juniors, and professionals golfers. The vast vast majority of golfers will never come close to that therefore hitting with the right side of your body is a not feasible because people run out of range of motion and just have to stall and thrust to accelerate the club to hit the ball. 

 

No they (most) don't (run out of range of motion). Most stall because they have to stall to hit the golf ball. Because their body can't keep going given how far behind the pivot their arms are, or whatever. If most golfers who do this just kept turning, they'd literally miss the ground and the golf ball.

 

10 hours ago, airjammer said:

Most pro golfers are genetic freaks in one way or another or at a minimum been hitting balls from a young age to develop and maintain important range of motion.

 

Not really. This line of thinking is way too common, and honestly, it down-plays the work they put into what they do and have done.

 

7 hours ago, CTgamer said:

Seems like a response to the “hold lag handle-draggers” and the “elbow pushing in and forward to tip the shaft behind you shallowers” - which gets ams thinking the hands have to lead coming into impact to get shaft lean

 

Yep.

 

7 hours ago, airjammer said:

At one time Amg was the one pushing that type of swing. Anyone remember the video where they described holding a students shoulders closed while asking him to get the club to the ball and he couldn’t do it until the golfer pulled his arms off his/her chest and forward in front of his/her midline? They were heavy teaching arms first..basically a Chris Kirk feeling movement imo.

 

No. Please share the link. I don't think I've ever seen anything like that from them. If they did, I feel like the context is missing (and important) here.

 

7 hours ago, airjammer said:

if anything they have went way closer to gankas/Milo than I would have ever guessed. 

 

Hard disagree there.

 

6 hours ago, joedizzy1978 said:

If your trail arm reconnects to the side seam p4-p5, lead arm adduction would increase.

 

Please demonstrate that. Let's see a video. Because I don't think it does, particularly if the elbow is widening as it drops down as they routinely share/demonstrate/teach.

 

6 hours ago, joedizzy1978 said:

Pulled this from a google search of “lead arm adduction”. Credit to kdgolf (dont know him).  Figure on the left shows more lead arm adduction than figure on the right.

 

Let's just ignore that the left avatar has his right elbow is bent like twice as much as the right avatar. 😛 

 

Edited July 28 by iacas
added paragraph

[getitdaily]

7 minutes ago, iacas said:

Oh boy. A lot (without being much at all) to catch up on here.

 

 

This video doesn't encourage you to swing to the right (not more so than to deliver a relatively neutral path), so I'm not sure what you're saying there.

 

 

There are dozens and dozens of things technology has proven incorrect from what people used to think. Heck, well known instructors even got the most basic things down — like the ball flight laws or that you didn't "compress the ball against the ground" were wrong for decades.

 

Why are so many people intent on trying to prove that some old dead guy was actually right about something instead of just learning what we can learn as newer and newer tech is available? The old guys weren't completely wrong… but they weren't right about everything, either.

 

 

Bingo.

 

 

No they (most) don't (run out of range of motion). Most stall because they have to stall to hit the golf ball. Because their body can't keep going given how far behind the pivot their arms are, or whatever. If most golfers who do this just kept turning, they'd literally miss the ground and the golf ball.

 

 

Not really. This line of thinking is way too common, and honestly, it down-plays the work they put into what they do and have done.

 

 

Yep.

 

 

No. Please share the link. I don't think I've ever seen anything like that from them. If they did, I feel like the context is missing (and important) here.

 

 

Hard disagree there.

 

 

Please demonstrate that. Let's see a video. Because I don't think it does, particularly if the elbow is widening as it drops down as they routinely share/demonstrate/teach.

 

 

Let's just ignore that the left avatar has his right elbow is bent like twice as much as the right avatar. 😛 

 

Easy big fella. You can't roll in to the buffet, starved, and engorge yourself. You'll give yourself a bellyache.

[RayPlan]

7 hours ago, joedizzy1978 said:

If your trail arm reconnects to the side seam p4-p5, lead arm adduction would increase.  

I can do that without increasing adduction

[joedizzy1978]

Agree with regard to trail arm extension providing a difference but when they discuss reconnecting the arm to the side seem, that isnt mentioned.  At 4:05 Sean demonstrates reconnecting with trail arm only, and does so without any clear demonstration of extension.  He only mentions extension after reconnecting.  

1 hour ago, iacas said:

particularly if the elbow is widening as it drops down as they routinely share/demonstrate/teach.

[iacas]

Just now, joedizzy1978 said:

Agree with regard to trail arm extension providing a difference but when they discuss reconnecting the arm to the side seem, that isnt mentioned. At 4:05 Sean demonstrates reconnecting with trail arm only, and does so without any clear demonstration of extension. He only mentions extension after reconnecting.  

 

They've done it a hundred* times. Every video doesn't need the fullest explanation of everything they talk about.

 

* Might be a slight exaggeration, but not much. I mean, you quote me as saying "as they routinely share/demonstrate/teach."

 

[joedizzy1978]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

 

They've done it a hundred* times. Every video doesn't need the fullest explanation of everything they talk about.

 

* Might be a slight exaggeration, but not much. I mean, you quote me as saying "as they routinely share/demonstrate/teach."

 

I mentioned in my post that theyre aware of information that their demonstration seems to contradict.  In my opinion, their presentation and wording in THAT video wasn’t executed well.  

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, joedizzy1978 said:

I mentioned in my post that theyre aware of information that their demonstration seems to contradict.  In my opinion, their presentation and wording in THAT video wasn’t executed well.  

 

The presentation and wording in your post with the Sportsbox avatars is not executed well, but you left that part out of your replies. 😄 

 

Here's the thing… again, they can't say everything about everything in every video. They'd be 45 minutes long and tedious as all get out. We as an audience are capable of using our brains to put together the whole piece, are we not?

 

Edited July 29 by iacas
Submitted prematurely

[joedizzy1978]

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

The presentation and wording in your post with the Sportsbox avatars is not executed well, but you left that part out of your replies. 😄 

Was that supposed to be your mike drop moment?  lol.  Moving on.

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, joedizzy1978 said:

Moving on.

 

… without an answer to the questions, or a video of you demonstrating how dropping the right elbow increases adduction as you claimed.

 

Noted.

 

[joedizzy1978]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

… without an answer to the questions, or a video of you demonstrating how dropping the right elbow increases adduction as you claimed.

 

Noted.

 

You already mentioned how trail arm extension is required to avoid increasing lead arm adduction. They failed to mention that or demonstrate that function.  As such, my original comment pertains to those executing it in the manner they demonstrated and outlined in THAT video.  You already did the work for me, so it made the video you requested unnecessary.  Thanks.

 

2 hours ago, iacas said:

particularly if the elbow is widening as it drops down as they routinely share/demonstrate/teach.

 

[iacas]

1 minute ago, joedizzy1978 said:

You already mentioned how trail arm extension is required to avoid increasing lead arm adduction. They failed to mention that or demonstrate that function.  As such, my original comment pertains to those executing it in the manner they demonstrated and outlined in THAT video.  You already did the work for me, so it made the video you requested unnecessary. Thanks.

 

No, you've misread. Here's an even shorter response to you by Ray saying a part of what I've said:

 

1 hour ago, RayPlan said:

I can do that without increasing adduction

 

I can do it too. So, show us. Keep your trail elbow from doubling the amount of flexion it has, too, unlike the Sportsbox avatar, and just lower the trail elbow downward.

 

I disagree they failed to demonstrate that function. Shaun doesn't keep his right elbow flexed 90° at all points in the video. Maybe once demonstrating ONLY the lowering-to-the-ribs part, but not at every point, and certainly not in every video.

[NosajNeelik]

5 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

MC Hammer called me from the 80’s and wanted his pants back.

Malbon on line one….they want to hire you as a fashion consultant 

[getitdaily]

Arguing arm angles and adduction by subtraction is bunk.

[joedizzy1978]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

No, you've misread

Nope, read it correctly. If you didn’t convey what you meant, thats on you.

 

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

Shaun doesn't keep his right elbow flexed 90° at all points in the video

Didn’t say he kept it flexed at all points of the video.   He mentions and demonstrates trail arm extension AFTER connecting the trail arm to the side seam.  My original comment was directed at what they performed en route to side seam connection.  You sure are jonesing for video of me bud…..there are less combative ways to get your rocks off….unless thats a prerequisite.  

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, joedizzy1978 said:

Nope, read it correctly. If you didn’t convey what you meant, thats on you.

 

Didn’t say he kept it flexed at all points of the video.   He mentions and demonstrates trail arm extension AFTER connecting the trail arm to the side seam.  My original comment was directed at what they performed en route to side seam connection.  You sure are jonesing for video of me bud…..there are less combative ways to get your rocks off….unless thats a prerequisite.

 

Nah, bud.

 

On the bright side (for both of us), you won't have to worry about me replying to your stuff much more in the future.

Cheers.

[golferdude54]

Doesn’t the lead shoulder gain flexion P4-P5? I feel that detail is overlooked a lot.
 

There’s trail elbow flexion/extension, lead arm abduction/adduction, and then there’s lead shoulder extension/flexion.

 

The hands can’t go down from where it was at P4 relative to the torso without shoulder flexion.

[Celeras]

22 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

This video is why these two drills are so helpful.

 

Been teaching both for 10+ years.  
 

It’s so funny, the narrative has been passive arms early and shove hands in front for the ball late.  As Denis Lemieux said….”All Bad!”…….You feel shame.”

 

First one gets hands to where they should be, then rotation gats hands passed the ]ball.  When people see how much shaft lean they get with drill 1, their heads spin and say, “I never do this, I’m trying to shove my hands in front of the ball and hold off the release.”
 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CnHtR2hoW-W/?igsh=MXYwMDN2Mm1qb3k3ZQ==

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DIXBjwKzLNT/?igsh=bGVndXB5amt5aWE0

 

Seems like that second reel would be a hard position to get to the ball from if you also did the "cast" from NTC when pinning your elbow to hip. 

 

How do you negotiate those two feels?

[TheDeanAbides]

5 hours ago, Celeras said:

 

Seems like that second reel would be a hard position to get to the ball from if you also did the "cast" from NTC when pinning your elbow to hip. 

 

How do you negotiate those two feels?

It isn't. The two moves work perfectly fine together. In fact, Cast A often means this move happens as an extension of it. 

Edited July 29 by TheDeanAbides

[MonteScheinblum]

1 hour ago, Celeras said:

 

Seems like that second reel would be a hard position to get to the ball from if you also did the "cast" from NTC when pinning your elbow to hip. 

 

How do you negotiate those two feels?

Actually it’s easier.  Less radial and less elbow bend requires less side bend.

[RayPlan]

7 hours ago, golferdude54 said:

Doesn’t the lead shoulder gain flexion P4-P5? I feel that detail is overlooked a lot.
 

There’s trail elbow flexion/extension, lead arm abduction/adduction, and then there’s lead shoulder extension/flexion.

 

The hands can’t go down from where it was at P4 relative to the torso without shoulder flexion.

I had to look up shoulder flexion. This?

 

(line drawing of me in my standard golf attire)