Creating space is bunk!

[jonsnow]

3 hours ago, GoGoErky said:

What data do you have to support this?

 

AMG in a recent video said they have more gears data on amateurs than they do pros.

 

again what data supports this?

 

[airjammer]

1 minute ago, dpc said:

I'll take a swing at this one.  I don't know him personally, but virtually everyone on here knows of him: Mark Crossfield - popular YouTuber.  He made a series a few years ago where he was measured with all the tech available to him.  I don't believe he used Gears specifically, but was wired up like the devices TPI uses.  Plus force plates and GC Quad.  Just by using the data feedback from this tech he went from an accurate but relatively short (270?) driver to accurate and over 300 cruising distance.

Yes I agree with that..he did a good job with the information he was given. 
 

The only push back I would say to the Mark Crossfield story is that gaining speed is the easiest thing to implement. That’s why there is tons of speed training devices that universally work if you put in the time and effort but not many if at all proven universally accuracy improving devices. 
 

What are your thoughts on the last part?

 

[Valtiel]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

The golfers had opposite feelings. (You see this sometimes when you have to work on someone getting across the line or laid off...

Or if you're Jordan Spieth, both! At various times! 

[KD1]

2 hours ago, airjammer said:

Care to expand on that comment as in what is interesting?

 

For a while now I've seen lots of AMG videos about "The Magic Move", reconnecting the trail arm to the side first move down. This is the first video I've seen where they describe how it needs to disconnect off the side again.

 

From my own perspective this feels like it was a missing piece. It's an interesting swing cue for me to not forget to launch the arm back off the ribs or continue driving through the swing... the right arms job isn't over after reconnecting. 

 

Since I first watched this video a few days ago, in my mind's eye I've been wrestling with this image of a swing plane relative to my right shoulder joint rather than just the actual swing plane and trying to reconcile it with the rest of my idea of a swing... My mind's eye tends to leads me off a cliff sometimes so as I said jury is still out.

Edited July 31 by KD1
can't spell

[MK7Golf21]

4 hours ago, GoGoErky said:

 

 

AMG in a recent video said they have more gears data on amateurs than they do pros.

 

again what data supports this?

 

If it's their own gears data from students then it's probably > 80% retired folks over 55 with money to blow, that's the demographic who can afford these guys from the live lessons I've seen. However, I did still enjoy seeing those lessons, probably only on the paid site now. 

 

[dpc]

42 minutes ago, airjammer said:

Yes I agree with that..he did a good job with the information he was given. 
 

The only push back I would say to the Mark Crossfield story is that gaining speed is the easiest thing to implement. That’s why there is tons of speed training devices that universally work if you put in the time and effort but not many if at all proven universally accuracy improving devices. 
 

What are your thoughts on the last part?

 

<Scratches head> Where'd the goalposts go?  I nailed that kick.

[GoGoErky]

41 minutes ago, airjammer said:

Yes I agree with that..he did a good job with the information he was given. 
 

The only push back I would say to the Mark Crossfield story is that gaining speed is the easiest thing to implement. That’s why there is tons of speed training devices that universally work if you put in the time and effort but not many if at all proven universally accuracy improving devices. 
 

What are your thoughts on the last part?

 

Have you read the posts about the sped training devices and how several dot see the gains on the course? The don’t see the gains because their swings are still terrible and in some cases worse after speed training.

 

People see better speed gains from improving their swing compared to just speed training. 

 

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:

If it's their own gears data from students then it's probably > 80% retired folks over 55 with money to blow, that's the demographic who can afford these guys from the live lessons I've seen. However, I did still enjoy seeing those lessons, probably only on the paid site now.

 

If only they had videos showing their lessons with real students…

 

I've seen multiple lessons in their Orlando location, and none of the golfers were over the age of 35 or so. Maybe 40 covers all of them if one in particular looked young for his age.

[GoGoErky]

6 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:

 

If it's their own gears data from students then it's probably > 80% retired folks over 55 with money to blow, that's the demographic who can afford these guys from the live lessons I've seen. However, I did still enjoy seeing those lessons, probably only on the paid site now. 

 

I don’t know if those with gears systems allows them access to all recorded swings by anyone regardless of where it was used. They have gears data for pros like Rory and DJ as examples, not sure they measured them, but based on their pros vs ams videos it appears they have a pretty large database of swings 

[Golfbeat]

22 minutes ago, KD1 said:

 

For a while now I've seen lots of AMG videos about "The Magick Move", reconnecting the trail arm to the side first move down. This is the first video I've seen where they describe how it needs to disconnect off the side again.

 

From my own perspective this feels like it was a missing piece. It's an interesting swing cue for me to not forget to launch the arm back off the ribs or continue driving through the swing... the right arms job isn't over after reconnecting. 

 

Since I first watched this video a few days ago, in my mind's eye I've been wrestling with this image of a swing plane relative to my right shoulder joint rather than just the actual swing plane and trying to reconcile it with the rest of my idea of a swing... My mind's eye tends to leads me off a cliff sometimes so as I said jury is still out.

 

This is what resonated to me as well. Disconnect, connect, disconnect. Keep the connection too long and it's not pretty.

[airjammer]

3 hours ago, GoGoErky said:

One can have their own opinion but not their own facts. We know that people have been on 3d and made success. If they weren’t then instructors who have the tools and the skills to use them wouldn’t be as successful as they are. AMG has a waitlist so that might be an indication of the results.

 

TPi has plenty of examples of golfers who got better as result.

 

Just because successes aren’t broadcast don’t mean they aren’t happening. Remember we are very small minority of the golfing population. 
 

I do know someone who has been on 3d. I also know people who have been to TPI for the full experience of getting evaluated thru their assessments.

 

There are plenty of those who has sung the praises of iteach, Monte and several other instructors who have helped them get better. There are others who don’t like to talk about their improvements or their great play. See Monte’s post about Sean.

 

I don’t know any instructors who charge more for one student compared to another. That may be different for a pro vs an amateur, but everyday lessons for the same level of instruction I have yet to see. If it happens that’s probably not a good instructor. 
 

 

Popularity doesn’t always correlate to student success. I know someone personally who took lessons from them and it wasn’t a successful lesson if you judge on improvement and obviously students as just as much influence if not more than the teacher. That’s just a one off and not an overall indication of their teaching business. I’d take a lesson from them but I’m not paying what they all currently charging. 
 

I’ve taken a lesson from Mike at his house like 9 years ago when he was about the only person I could find with Swing Catalyst pressure plates. Super nice guy, very personable and the information he gave me was correct. From the medical information he shared with me that day..he won’t be able to swing they are currently teaching imo. I think that’s part of the reason they taught a more hands in front of the sternum and stays there type of swing. That’s pure speculation on my part. Here I am double chin and all😂
 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BCYowiTnfts/?igsh=ZTR6dmtkbWw1cHR0

 

I’m not saying that all of this technology isn’t a positive which I believe it is…I believe that we are stilling learning about learning and there is something we still haven’t figured to really make it a game changer for most golfers. 
 

I must not have articulated myself correctly. What I was trying to to say is if the word gets around that xyz is a good coach, people will flock to them, making scheduling lessons harder for the students, also rightly so the teacher will start to charge more since demand has grown. All negatives for the original students. Basically the gankas situation. He was charging like $150 or $200 or whatever it was an hour at one point before he got famous. Within a very short period of time he went up to $800 an hour and months long wait list. He’s seems like a solid dude because he grandfathered in his original students to their previous rates. 

[KD1]

I'll go out on a limb here and guess they're not including Mr Havercamp's 3d data in their aggregation of elite swing models.

Edited July 31 by KD1
not* including... duh

[airjammer]

23 minutes ago, dpc said:

<Scratches head> Where'd the goalposts go?  I nailed that kick.

No, I agreed with you..point well made. 
 

I just advanced the conversation to another the other part of the performance equation…dispersion.
 

instead of playing some sort if gotcha game that I’m not playing…why not just answer the question if you have any opinion. 

[dpc]

5 minutes ago, airjammer said:

No, I agreed with you..point well made. 
 

I just advanced the conversation to another the other part of the performance equation…dispersion.
 

instead of playing some sort if gotcha game that I’m not playing…why not just answer the question if you have any opinion. 

You asked for an example.  I gave one.  You semi-dismissed it as speed is easy to gain.

[Pnwpingi210]

This thread is incredible insight to human brains….. like national geographic

[NosajNeelik]

1 hour ago, airjammer said:

Yes I agree with that..he did a good job with the information he was given. 
 

The only push back I would say to the Mark Crossfield story is that gaining speed is the easiest thing to implement. That’s why there is tons of speed training devices that universally work if you put in the time and effort but not many if at all proven universally accuracy improving devices. 
 

What are your thoughts on the last part?

 

Lol. I love that you ask a question, someone gives you a good answer and then you reply with an excuse. 
 

hello goalposts over there now. The nfl is now a 300 yard field. 

[MK7Golf21]

I'm having a hard time even following what the discussion/debate is about now. Are we still discussing the original videos content?

[NosajNeelik]

52 minutes ago, KD1 said:

For a while now I've seen lots of AMG videos about "The Magick Move",

Is Alister Crowley a golf instructor too?? Maybe he taught Young Tom Morris??

[airjammer]

8 minutes ago, dpc said:

You asked for an example.  I gave one.  You semi-dismissed it as speed is easy to gain.

According to Dana Dalhquist it’s true.
 

Even for myself it’s true…a couple years ago I made a speed journey and went from 160 to 178 with just a driver and gc2 launch monitor in a 6 month period. Never ever made such a gain in accuracy. Not saying it’s not possible,..I just haven’t come across the information or if I have, I haven’t dedicated myself to the process of implementing the information. 

It’s like lifting weights. If you stick with a program and do it long enough you will get stronger even if you don’t eat right..like people in prison. People have been swinging the same swing for years trying to hit it closer but it pretty never happens. It’s just different. 

Do you agree it is different and if so why?

[airjammer]

10 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:

I'm having a hard time even following what the discussion/debate is about now. Are we still discussing the original videos content?

Kinda but not really. It’s morphed into a general golf instruction. 

[airjammer]

13 minutes ago, NosajNeelik said:

Lol. I love that you ask a question, someone gives you a good answer and then you reply with an excuse. 
 

hello goalposts over there now. The nfl is now a 300 yard field. 

There were never goal posts as there was never a game. Just a exchange of ideas. Just like the video. 
 

Here is the some data we have gathered, this is how we interpreted, this is how we think you should implement our findings. All opinions except for some aggregate data. 

[Pnwpingi210]

[virtuoso]

8 minutes ago, airjammer said:

There were never goal posts as there was never a game. Just a exchange of ideas. Just like the video. 
 

Here is the some data we have gathered, this is how we interpreted, this is how we think you should implement our findings. All opinions except for some aggregate data. 

We're just asking questions, People!

[airjammer]

3 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

We're just asking questions, People!

That to ask questions than it is for some people to make smart-ss comments just giggles and likes as it does nothing to further any conversation. 

[virtuoso]

2 minutes ago, airjammer said:

That to ask questions than it is for some people to make smart-ss comments just giggles and likes as it does nothing to further any conversation. 

Translation?

[Pnwpingi210]

2 minutes ago, airjammer said:

That to ask questions than it is for some people to make smart-ss comments just giggles and likes as it does nothing to further any conversation. 

Does nonsense further a conversation, in your opinion?

[Pnwpingi210]

@Chunkitgood - what are your thoughts on this topic?  
 

 

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, airjammer said:

Popularity doesn’t always correlate to student success. I know someone personally who took lessons from them and it wasn’t a successful lesson if you judge on improvement and obviously students as just as much influence if not more than the teacher. That’s just a one off and not an overall indication of their teaching business. I’d take a lesson from them but I’m not paying what they all currently charging. 

Yes it’s just as much if not more on the student when it comes to improvement and not all students mesh with all coaches, it has a lot more to do with skills of teaching than popularity, but wouldn’t success also lead to instructors being popular? 

 

 

1 hour ago, airjammer said:

That’s pure speculation on my part.

As is nearly everything you post

 

1 hour ago, airjammer said:

I’m not saying that all of this technology isn’t a positive which I believe it is…I believe that we are stilling learning about learning and there is something we still haven’t figured to really make it a game changer for most golfers.

So all the positive reviews on instructors pages on skillest, the repeat customers that many instructors have and all the data available that is used to help students isn’t proof that we know about teaching and making people better. And for learning the better instructors can figure out how to get the student to learn.

 

but again it’s on the student to take the knowledge they gained to get better. Application isn’t easy other wise we would all be great golfers.

 

 

[Snarkesor]

13 hours ago, KD1 said:

Maybe we're talking about different versions of "wipe". I haven't watched much of Tyler's stuff, can you provide a video where he describes the wipe?

 

Here is more on AMG's "wipe": 

 

More on AMG's trail arm extension:

 

And some more on AMG's trail arm extension:

 

 

[KD1]

3 minutes ago, Snarkesor said:

 

 

Thanks.  So just different definitions. But I'd say amgs definition is a little more intuitive considering the use of the term in other contexts of the swing.