L.A.B. Golf sold to private equity firm

[NosajNeelik]

1 hour ago, WesternRacing said:

 

And you made a comment about whether he’ll be engaged in the business.  His perception of control and his newfound wealth are relevant to that discussion.  But thanks for the volunteer forum moderation.  Always a gift.

Seriously dude your snark isn’t appreciated. The whole idea that the quality will suffer BECAUSE he’s not involved. Seriously get off your little hill and actually read and think what people wrote. 

[mshills]

4 hours ago, dcmidnight said:

My guess is that LAB will look at the cost outlay and realize its just not worth it milling the heads at a shop down the road just so you can say they are made in the USA. You can make them in China for 1/10th the cost and maybe you still market them as "assembled" in the USA. Suddenly your margins have gone through the rood and the quality is high enough that no one can tell. Or cares.

Exactly. “…made in China = junk” is not only a myth, it goes further than that, and I will not continue down that path…  There is a reason why China is the world’s primary workshop / factory. You can have anything made that you want, at any level of precision you require. 

 

I’m a lifelong Ping player. Ping is often referred to as a good ole American family business. It still is a family business, but they’ve been making their clubheads in China for a long time now and assembling them Stateside. 

[jda]

38 minutes ago, Ger21 said:

 

Just go to Ali Express to see 100 sellers offering fake DF3's.

 

Most likely because DF3 heads are already made there.  I do find it telling that the milling/porting is already done, screws inserted and even the China copies say Made in the USA like the original.  My guess is that these are where the mass produced unit that went to the nationwide stores came from... but I don't know anything, just a guess.

 

I love that the blatant copies of IP theft do take the time to alter the fonts just a little bit when they have the capability make it match exactly, since they made the original.  Is this just mocking the rest of us?  For any of you wanting to manufacture in China, don't believe them when they say that your product is safe with them - it might be, but it might not be.  Huge brands and maybe some with long-term relationships can stop the IP theft from happening, but it is really hard for small-time companies.

 

If you see DF 2.1, MEZZ, OZ, etc. models being sold on Ali soon, then you know that those are being made there now too.

 

EDIT: It is possible that L Catterton is large enough to stop this.  I am always amazed at what is copied and sold and what is not - there is truly no rhyme or reason to it.

Edited July 30 by jda

[Duct Tape]

3 hours ago, NosajNeelik said:

The conversation is about the company and if the quality will change, not a single persons bank account 

Hmm, did I miss the announcement of a new forum moderator?   😎🤓🏌🏼‍♀️

[Pnwpingi210]

14 minutes ago, jda said:

 

Most likely because DF3 heads are already made there.  I do find it telling that the milling/porting is already done, screws inserted and even the China copies say Made in the USA like the original.  My guess is that these are where the mass produced unit that went to the nationwide stores came from... but I don't know anything, just a guess.

 

I love that the blatant copies of IP theft do take the time to alter the fonts just a little bit when they have the capability make it match exactly, since they made the original.  Is this just mocking the rest of us?  For any of you wanting to manufacture in China, don't believe them when they say that your product is safe with them - it might be, but it might not be.  Huge brands and maybe some with long-term relationships can stop the IP theft from happening, but it is really hard for small-time companies.

 

If you see DF 2.1, MEZZ, OZ, etc. models being sold on Ali soon, then you know that those are being made there now too.

 

EDIT: It is possible that L Catterton is large enough to stop this.  I am always amazed at what is copied and sold and what is not - there is truly no rhyme or reason to it.

I mean china used ( 8 years or so ago) to have “appoe” stores in the same mall as apple stores.  Even the stores looked nearly identical.  If Apple can’t stop it…..

[PNW]

2 hours ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

This x1000

wouldn't that be X7? 

[BlkNGld]

1 hour ago, mshills said:

Exactly. “…made in China = junk” is not only a myth, it goes further than that, and I will not continue down that path…  There is a reason why China is the world’s primary workshop / factory. You can have anything made that you want, at any level of precision you require. 

 

Yup.   

 

They'll build to just about any quality level that you care to specify.   The better you specify the product requirements (and penalties if they're not met) the better the quality you're likely to get.   If you leave an avenue to pocket cost savings while meeting the contract they will (just like any other source).

[Rory4Pres]

15 hours ago, 3puttavoidance said:

The days of presuming lower quality because it comes from China are long gone. Only recently we have had the CEO of Apple reaffirm their product is made in China because of quality. And then we have had the CEO of Ford say it was the most humbling experience ever to see production in China. Like it or not if we aren't already there we will soon be at the point where made in the USA actually signals poorer quality 

.

Edited July 30 by Rory4Pres

[WesternRacing]

5 hours ago, mshills said:

Thank you for bringing some sanity to this thread….that is where my head is as well. What I don’t believe:

 

Ability to scale to ~400k units

15% adj. EBITDA, unless “adj.” is quite large

 

…so I can’t squarely back into a $200M valuation.

 

However, I am not, nor would I ever, fund or invest in anything in the business of golf. 

 

A rapidly growing business selling 400k units at an average sale price of over $500 and you can’t squarely get back to a $200 million valuation?  You don’t think a rapidly growing business with strong margins would be worth more than 1x forward revenue?

 

Again, just based on what the founder said, they sold their equity for what appears to be a king’s ransom.  It’s laughable for people to speculate that things don’t add up and that the deal is less valuable than what’s been quoted.  There’s no way I would have advised LAB founders to take anything close to only 1x revenue.  I was a partner in a similar margin, lower growth business that we sold for 3x revenue to private equity three years ago.

 

Given LAB’s growth, I’d be looking at north of 3x revenue.  Even Acushnet trades at 2x revenue and while it has good margins, its revenue growth is minimal to negative.  LAB is the hottest product in golf; no way the founders just gave it away.

[mshills]

3 minutes ago, WesternRacing said:

 

A rapidly growing business selling 400k units at an average sale price of over $500 and you can’t squarely get back to a $200 million valuation?  You don’t think a rapidly growing business with strong margins would be worth more than 1x forward revenue?

 

Again, just based on what the founder said, they sold their equity for what appears to be a king’s ransom.  It’s laughable for people to speculate that things don’t add up and that the deal is less valuable than what’s been quoted.  There’s no way I would have advised LAB founders to take anything close to only 1x revenue.  I was a partner in a similar margin, lower growth business that we sold for 3x revenue to private equity three years ago.

 

Given LAB’s growth, I’d be looking at north of 3x revenue.  Even Acushnet trades at 2x revenue and while it has good margins, its revenue growth is minimal to negative.  LAB is the hottest product in golf; no way the founders just gave it away.

Read what I wrote again before any further condescension. This is not my first time doing this. 
 

Absent any other information, I simply do not believe the volume assumption of 400k units, nor do I believe the 15% margin. But someone does, that’s all that matters.

[dcmidnight]

3 minutes ago, WesternRacing said:

A rapidly growing business selling 400k units

 

Really? Its laughable? I ignore most of the revenue talk for the time being because of all the videos I've watched that Sam has done I cant even make the math work for ~160,000 units. I cant on one hand see/hear him talk about how much time and effort goes into every putter - 10x more time than their competitors - and on the other hand somehow picture 750+ units a day coming out of that shop (assuming they are closed weekends). I...dont think you can have both. Either they are *moving* putters out of there and his talk is just talk or else they really do take the time they take and maybe those sales numbers are puffed up.

 

Again, the shop to me looks like a high, high end operation so I'd lean towards the latter.

[dcmidnight]

5 minutes ago, mshills said:

Absent any other information, I simply do not believe the volume assumption of 400k units, nor do I believe the 15% margin. But someone does, that’s all that matters.

 

Bingo. It doesnt matter if it took them two years, it only takes one 'yes' signature.

[NosajNeelik]

7 hours ago, Duct Tape said:

Hmm, did I miss the announcement of a new forum moderator?   😎🤓🏌🏼‍♀️

No I’m commenting on what I said and how his comment wasn’t addressing that 

not on what can be said overall. Get it?

[SwingBlade]

First rule:   "People do things for their reasons, not ours."  Since corporations are now legally "people" this can often apply to them as well.  
 

Chinese manufacturers can be the best or the worst but that, again, depends on the people involved in such deals.  

 

Some posts herein are thoughtful speculation.  Some are stereotypical lambasts that serve little purpose.  PE can function as a greed machine or occasionally as something quite the opposite.  
 

Some people like Sam and his core group have been known to flush everything they've built down the loo for "take it and run money" while many others in the same situation refuse to play unless they achieve contractual assurances and protections for both their employees and their visionary concepts or principles.  
 

My gut feeling is that Sam is much more the latter type.  But none of us really knows anything yet.  
 

Just as with buyouts/mergers like Boeing/McDonnell Douglas or United/Continental, it can take several years to begin to fathom the underlying truths of such issues and the people involved and the accompanying secret handshakes and side deals or  manipulations that were positive or negative or were honored or betrayed and often it is a power play by others who subsequently capitalize on inherent weakness and FUBAR everything or salvage failure at the last minute.   
 

Again, at this moment, I look forward to seeing what kind of deal Sam tried to construct and where it goes.  

Edited July 31 by SwingBlade

[QuigleyDU]

SHEESH.. I step out for coffee and.. .

 

[new2g0lf]

Sam took the money, good for him.  He likely has an earnout deal over a period of time (2-5 years) where he will say the right things and help the PE make money so he gets more of his.  The key to the companies future is how much Sam got up front versus how much the earn out is.  If he got the bulk of the money up front, he won't be motivated to do much but be a cheerleader and let the PE figure out if they want to hold it or wrap it up and sell it to someone else.  The grassroot customers will likely bail on LAB, especially since Odyssey and TM are already copying their concepts.  Why buy a $500 LAB from a PE when you can get close to the same thing from someplace else at half the price.  Sam was smart to sell they were at max valuation with heavy competition headed their way.  If Sam has a real passion, I'd expect he will go the same route as Toulon.  

[StoutKing]

On 7/30/2025 at 4:34 AM, dcmidnight said:

 

Yep. Just watching some of the YouTube reviews is enough to get you to never pay 3x for an American made one.

 

My guess is that LAB will look at the cost outlay and realize its just not worth it milling the heads at a shop down the road just so you can say they are made in the USA. You can make them in China for 1/10th the cost and maybe you still market them as "assembled" in the USA. Suddenly your margins have gone through the rood and the quality is high enough that no one can tell. Or cares.

 

Just look on Ali Express/Temu or watch some reviews of the knockoffs. These putters are already being cloned to a "good enough" level - and thats without the company being involved.

If LAB starts moving things abroad I'm done with them.  Supporting American craftsmanship was one of the reasons I was willing to pay big bucks and wait.  There are people who don't care as much though.

[StoutKing]

4 minutes ago, new2g0lf said:

Sam took the money, good for him.  He likely has an earnout deal over a period of time (2-5 years) where he will say the right things and help the PE make money so he gets more of his.  The key to the companies future is how much Sam got up front versus how much the earn out is.  If he got the bulk of the money up front, he won't be motivated to do much but be a cheerleader and let the PE figure out if they want to hold it or wrap it up and sell it to someone else.  The grassroot customers will likely bail on LAB, especially since Odyssey and TM are already copying their concepts.  Why buy a $500 LAB from a PE when you can get close to the same thing from someplace else at half the price.  Sam was smart to sell they were at max valuation with heavy competition headed their way.  If Sam has a real passion, I'd expect he will go the same route as Toulon.  

One advantage they have is the TPT shaft.  It's light years better than anything from Oddy or TM.  I wonder if they can keep that exclusive.  It makes a huge difference with aluminum heads.

[snagy2000]

23 minutes ago, StoutKing said:

One advantage they have is the TPT shaft.  It's light years better than anything from Oddy or TM.  I wonder if they can keep that exclusive.  It makes a huge difference with aluminum heads.

TPT & LAB headed for divorce...Talked about in other threads...New putters and new shafts arriving in August...

[bladehunter]

29 minutes ago, StoutKing said:

If LAB starts moving things abroad I'm done with them.  Supporting American craftsmanship was one of the reasons I was willing to pay big bucks and wait.  There are people who don't care as much though.

Agree there. It definitely was a factor in price  justification.  

[Red4282]

The greatest thing in all this is I honestly don’t care what happens. I have my perfect Df3, not going anywhere, made over 100 feet of putts today including a 60 footer, 35, couple of 15s. They can be made in china for 3 cents for all I care. Carry on.

[StoutKing]

29 minutes ago, snagy2000 said:

TPT & LAB headed for divorce...Talked about in other threads...New putters and new shafts arriving in August...

Major bummer.  Onwards

[subrew]