Mizuno irons, what was your last fave cb/mb.

[Mp14forlife]

23 hours ago, grochol17 said:

Forgiving means different things to different people, but the specs that Maltby measures don't back up your claims about the clubs getting less forgiving over time.  Just a few examples (you can check the numbers here:  https://store-k9nvqai7wz.mybigcommerce.com/content/PDFs/Head_MPFs/MPF_MIZUNO.pdf)

 

The MP 64s you mention as your standard for what you want from a Mizuno CB have almost the exact same specs as the blade MP 4 in terms of C dimension, MOI, and actual vertical COG, so it is safe to say that the 64 isn't really a forgiving CB. 

 

The new Pro S3 has a tiny bit higher MOI than the 64 and a longer C dimension, but the AVCOG is also a bit higher.  If you miss off the toe, the Pro S3 should play more forgiving than the 64, but the higher vertical COG might not work well for some players.

 

For the recent JPX Tours, the 921 was not "bladier" than the 919... the 921 has a longer C dim, higher MOI, and a tiny bit higher vertical COG (0.018 higher to be exact).  Unless you're sensitive that tiny COG difference, the 921 Tour should play a little more forgiving.  The 923 Tour is kind of a mixture of the two irons, but again it is not definitively less forgiving than the 919.

 

Regarding the blades, the MP 241s are the least forgiving iron on the Mizuno chart in terms of MOI, but it is unclear if that is a trend or a one off.  As for the MP 5s, those aren't particularly forgiving on paper... they are slightly less forgiving than, but comparable to, sets like the MP 4s and MP 20s.  I'll agree that they felt good and didn't seem particularly punishing on mishits, but having switched from the MP 5s to 923 Tours, I can tell that the 923 tours are more forgiving on toe hits than the 5s.  

 

For what it is worth, the MP 67 has the highest MOI of any Mizuno blade in the chart (it is the only one above 12).  The next up is @NRJyzr's MP 11 followed by the MP 32, both close to 11.8.

You think you're better than me? Get out of here with those measurements and data! This is about feelings! Totally kidding. 

 

I will say, I have hit the mp64 side by side with the s3 on the course and pretty good range sessions, and catching them both a groove or so low, the mp64 was a better performing club for me. Not to mention the confidence factor at address with the mp64. 

Edited July 30 by Mp14forlife

[grochol17]

3 minutes ago, Mp14forlife said:

You think you're better than me? Get out of here with those measurements and data! This is about feelings! Totally kidding. 

 

I will say, I have hit the mp64 side by side with the s3 on the course and pretty good range sessions, and catching them both a groove or so low, the mp64 was a better performing club for me. Not to mention the confidence factor at address with the mp64. 

 

Confidence is very important definitely not something Maltby can quantify!

[ScooterMcTavish]

My long time favourites were the MP-30,and my memory of them had me pick out my current irons.  Unsure why OP railed on the JPX 923 Tour, as this club is pretty much the classic Mizuno player's CB, and not substantially different than the cited MP-64.  Thin topline, nice sole, low but useable offset, and moderate forgiveness, especially toe-side.  There is actually a bit more perimeter weighting on the JPX 923 tour than the MP-64.

 

Also lofts were mentioned - my MP-30 had a 47º PW, and the JPX 923 Tour had a 46º PW.  No jacked lofts here.
 

Trying to understand what OP is looking for, as the JPX 923 Tour, and the newer Pro S-3 (more forgiving for heel strikers) are truly updated "classic" Mizuno player's CBs.  Only difference is they have a non-chrome finish.

 

Possibly the absence of a more forgiving CB GI option is the larger issue OP has.  Unfortunately, we now live in an era of fitting bay wars and jacked lofts, so we see clubs like the JPX925 Forged with a 43º PW.  This is unfortunately the time we're in, and I do not believe we'll ever return to the days of a more forgiving CB iron with traditional lofts.  It's not just Mizuno - it's everyone; just look at PW lofts on all more forgiving CBs or PD irons (Ping i530, 42º; Ping i240, 45º, TM P790, 44º; WS Dynapower Forged, 44º; Cally X-Forged Max, 44º).  

Edited July 30 by ScooterMcTavish

[Lord Viking]

1 hour ago, ScooterMcTavish said:

Unfortunately, we now live in an era of fitting bay wars and jacked lofts, so we see clubs like the JPX925 Forged with a 43º PW.  This is unfortunately the time we're in, and I do not believe we'll ever return to the days of a more forgiving CB iron with traditional lofts.  It's not just Mizuno - it's everyone; just look at PW lofts on all more forgiving CBs or PD irons (Ping i530, 42º; Ping i240, 45º, TM P790, 44º; WS Dynapower Forged, 44º; Cally X-Forged Max, 44º).  

Thats why most come with a set gap wedge @ 48* 

We've been through this

[ScooterMcTavish]

38 minutes ago, Lord Viking said:

Thats why most come with a set gap wedge @ 48* 

We've been through this

 

 It's really why the numbers on the bottom of the clubs have become meaningless.

But to OP's question, a GI cavity with more traditional lofts simply doesn't seem to exist right now.  Player's CB?  Yes, but not GI.

 

[Mp14forlife]

1 hour ago, ScooterMcTavish said:

My long time favourites were the MP-30,and my memory of them had me pick out my current irons.  Unsure why OP railed on the JPX 923 Tour, as this club is pretty much the classic Mizuno player's CB, and not substantially different than the cited MP-64.  Thin topline, nice sole, low but useable offset, and moderate forgiveness, especially toe-side.  There is actually a bit more perimeter weighting on the JPX 923 tour than the MP-64.

 

Also lofts were mentioned - my MP-30 had a 47º PW, and the JPX 923 Tour had a 46º PW.  No jacked lofts here.
 

Trying to understand what OP is looking for, as the JPX 923 Tour, and the newer Pro S-3 (more forgiving for heel strikers) are truly updated "classic" Mizuno player's CBs.  Only difference is they have a non-chrome finish.

 

Possibly the absence of a more forgiving CB GI option is the larger issue OP has.  Unfortunately, we now live in an era of fitting bay wars and jacked lofts, so we see clubs like the JPX925 Forged with a 43º PW.  This is unfortunately the time we're in, and I do not believe we'll ever return to the days of a more forgiving CB iron with traditional lofts.  It's not just Mizuno - it's everyone; just look at PW lofts on all more forgiving CBs or PD irons (Ping i530, 42º; Ping i240, 45º, TM P790, 44º; WS Dynapower Forged, 44º; Cally X-Forged Max, 44º).  

 I guess, why can't we have a Mizuno CB like a wilson cb? Older Mizuno players cb's seemed to have that sorta clearer distinction vs the mb/blade. The S3 is the bladiest Mizuno CB we've seen, I just don't like that direction. I would take Mizuno players cb's from 10 years ago over the newer offerings. 

[PNW]

What's an example of an older Mizuno CB that you'd like that the S3 is not? S3 is pretty close to MP64 without being a straight re-release.

 

(having said that, I was secretly hoping the S line would be modern interpretation/re-releases of their best irons over the last 30 years and would sit beside and in addition to the current MP and JPX lines). 

Edited July 30 by PNW

[Lord Helmet]

My 2 favorite Mizuno sets of all time are the MP53 and the MX200.  

[ScooterMcTavish]

23 minutes ago, Mp14forlife said:

 I guess, why can't we have a Mizuno CB like a wilson cb? Older Mizuno players cb's seemed to have that sorta clearer distinction vs the mb/blade. The S3 is the bladiest Mizuno CB we've seen, I just don't like that direction. I would take Mizuno players cb's from 10 years ago over the newer offerings. 

 

Guess I'm kind of struggling with your question, as there is very little difference between new Mizuno player's CB clubs (like the JPX 923 Tour and the S-3) versus the cavity backs of yesteryear.  You mentioned the MP-64 as an example, but the way the mass is placed low and in the middle of the head, and with a very shallow cavity, it looks closer to a blade/MB style than my JPX do.

Comparing to the Wilson is also odd, as the latest CB is a very scary club.  I looked at these in store, and they might as well be a blade due to less weight down low, and very low bounce and offset.

 

Possibly you're speaking about the design, where the cavity itself is larger in appearance?  If that is it, then certainly, aesthetic comments are very valid when comparing older and newer clubs.  But in any CB, it is important to see where the weight is placed.  In my JPX 923 Tour, there is a solid amount down low, and good bit at the toe which adds off-centre forgiveness.

 

And to the S-3 looking blade-y, I'm not sure about that.  Here is one of (IMHO) the nicest MP-series clubs that Mizuno made, the MP-52:
 

 

And here is the S-3.  What's old is new apparently:

 

 

 

Edited July 30 by ScooterMcTavish

[Lord Viking]

That MP 52 looks fantastic

[ScooterMcTavish]

2 minutes ago, Lord Viking said:

That MP 52 looks fantastic

 

Gorgeous club.  And as much as I do like the matte finish that Mizuno put on my JPX923T and the S3, there's something to be said about having nice chrome on the club, and matte in the cavity only.

Always loved the look of MP-30s as well.  Elegant and simple like the MP-52, but with a shorter head and softer lines.

 

Again, none of these are exceptionally forgiving CBs, with all having most of their mass centre and behind the ball, like a blade.

[ck800]

honestly the biggest thing hurting mizuno these days is that every iron they put out is so damn ugly, especially the "mizuno pro" script

 

the last 3 generations are awful. absolute freefall since the MP-20

[Skipperation]

I haven't seen the S3 in person so can't be 100% but my interpretation of the OP which I agree with is that generally Mizuno CB's (and Titleist etc) now all have a footprint far closer to a blade than they previously had. Yes you can look at where the weight is placed in the cavity etc and they might look similar but it really comes down to what it looks like at address. Nearly all of the modern forged CB's I've seen have a shorter blade length, thinner topline and less offset than the older Mizuno CB's referred to here such as MP64, MP52 etc. and therefore feel less forgiving in many respects. 

[Mp14forlife]

4 hours ago, Skipperation said:

I haven't seen the S3 in person so can't be 100% but my interpretation of the OP which I agree with is that generally Mizuno CB's (and Titleist etc) now all have a footprint far closer to a blade than they previously had. Yes you can look at where the weight is placed in the cavity etc and they might look similar but it really comes down to what it looks like at address. Nearly all of the modern forged CB's I've seen have a shorter blade length, thinner topline and less offset than the older Mizuno CB's referred to here such as MP64, MP52 etc. and therefore feel less forgiving in many respects. 

I mean that's what I think. But apparently according to the data I'm being mental about it I guess. My on course testing backs up my personal claim, but I know that's all anecdotal and get that, but my mp64 is an all around easier club to hit than the s-3, no matter how much "hidden" forgiveness is packed into the smaller s-3. Also the Wilson CB is easier all around than the s-3 for me. I've currently got my mp-14s in the bag right now and really find them just as easy to play as the s-3. But there's a fairly clear distinction in forgiveness for me between my mp64s and mp14s.

Call me crazy, but I want the maltby files released and won't rest until they are! This could be a manufacturer conspiracy trying to manipulate the data and sell us on all this hidden forgiveness in a smaller package. Tell the world my stor...........................................

Jk. 

[NRJyzr]

1 hour ago, Mp14forlife said:

I mean that's what I think. But apparently according to the data I'm being mental about it I guess. My on course testing backs up my personal claim, but I know that's all anecdotal and get that, but my mp64 is an all around easier club to hit than the s-3, no matter how much "hidden" forgiveness is packed into the smaller s-3. Also the Wilson CB is easier all around than the s-3 for me. I've currently got my mp-14s in the bag right now and really find them just as easy to play as the s-3. But there's a fairly clear distinction in forgiveness for me between my mp64s and mp14s.

Call me crazy, but I want the maltby files released and won't rest until they are! This could be a manufacturer conspiracy trying to manipulate the data and sell us on all this hidden forgiveness in a smaller package. Tell the world my stor...........................................

Jk. 

 

Interestingly, there's no real difference in forgiveness between the MP64 and the S-3.  The MP64's CG is a bit lower.  Not having seen either...  if the S-3 is smaller and you get better results with the 64, maybe it's just that size.  The visual component is often overlooked.

 

The Wilson CB, is this the Staff Model?  Assuming so...  Wilson seems to be using a higher CG in these irons.  Where that's relevant, the lower CG of the mp64 isn't like in play.  It hasn't been measured by GolfWorks so no MOI or CG data, so can't say specifically.  That said, it's interesting that the Staff Model blades have a higher MOI than the S-3, but they also have a higher CG.  I would expect the Staff Model CB would be similar, based on how the Wilson CBs' MOI have compared to their last few MB models.

 

Random ramblings in between meetings.

 

[Skipperation]

1 hour ago, Mp14forlife said:

I mean that's what I think. But apparently according to the data I'm being mental about it I guess. My on course testing backs up my personal claim, but I know that's all anecdotal and get that, but my mp64 is an all around easier club to hit than the s-3, no matter how much "hidden" forgiveness is packed into the smaller s-3. Also the Wilson CB is easier all around than the s-3 for me. I've currently got my mp-14s in the bag right now and really find them just as easy to play as the s-3. But there's a fairly clear distinction in forgiveness for me between my mp64s and mp14s.

Call me crazy, but I want the maltby files released and won't rest until they are! This could be a manufacturer conspiracy trying to manipulate the data and sell us on all this hidden forgiveness in a smaller package. Tell the world my stor...........................................

Jk. 

Here's a link to all the Maltby numbers;

 

https://www.golfworks.com/head-mpf-ratings/?srsltid=AfmBOopR26eG4HhIsmbF-KXQydBW0mNUds4lwZFTduRZ6szBsSJd07eH

 

Interesting reading but I'd take with a pinch of salt as there are lots of obviously very weird anomalies in there including some old clubs with negative ratings (not sure how that is possible?!).

 

It does support my theory about the 695MBs though as they have a higher MPF rating than all of Titleist's recent blades or forged cavity backs and even above all the irons from Srixon's Z/ZX/Zxi 7 series irons ............. But according to Maltby your MP14s are easier to hit than virtually of Mizuno's forged cavities from in and around the MP64 era so who knows what's actually correct?!

[herbert7890]

I adore adore my MP 20 MBs LOTS!   but hoping next year to upgrade to either the Pro S1 or S3 (or combo set) as they are now showing lots of aging signs (im going to the range 5-6 times per week since my comeback to golf earlier this year)

[NRJyzr]

1 hour ago, Skipperation said:

Interesting reading but I'd take with a pinch of salt as there are lots of obviously very weird anomalies in there including some old clubs with negative ratings (not sure how that is possible?!).

 

It's just a matter of understanding the formula.  The vast majority of that MPF score is nothing more than C Dimension minus Actual VCOG.  There are penalties applied for clubheads with a CG above 0.840", which is where you can get a negative number.

 

Especially if the CG is closer to the hosel, while also being on the high side.

 

[grochol17]

2 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

 

Interestingly, there's no real difference in forgiveness between the MP64 and the S-3.  The MP64's CG is a bit lower.  Not having seen either...  if the S-3 is smaller and you get better results with the 64, maybe it's just that size.  The visual component is often overlooked.

 

The Wilson CB, is this the Staff Model?  Assuming so...  Wilson seems to be using a higher CG in these irons.  Where that's relevant, the lower CG of the mp64 isn't like in play.  It hasn't been measured by GolfWorks so no MOI or CG data, so can't say specifically.  That said, it's interesting that the Staff Model blades have a higher MOI than the S-3, but they also have a higher CG.  I would expect the Staff Model CB would be similar, based on how the Wilson CBs' MOI have compared to their last few MB models.

 

Random ramblings in between meetings.

 

 

I think Wilson likes to put a lot of weight towards the toe, which gives their irons pretty high MOI.  It's too bad the current models are not on the Maltby list.  Last year when I was testing out irons the CBs definitely seemed more forgiving than most of the stuff I tried.

[Red4282]

On 7/30/2025 at 12:04 PM, Mp14forlife said:

 I guess, why can't we have a Mizuno CB like a wilson cb? Older Mizuno players cb's seemed to have that sorta clearer distinction vs the mb/blade. The S3 is the bladiest Mizuno CB we've seen, I just don't like that direction. I would take Mizuno players cb's from 10 years ago over the newer offerings. 

Just curious why you dont like a 243? 

 

On 7/30/2025 at 1:01 PM, ck800 said:

honestly the biggest thing hurting mizuno these days is that every iron they put out is so damn ugly, especially the "mizuno pro" script

 

the last 3 generations are awful. absolute freefall since the MP-20

This has to be satire…

[Mp14forlife]

1 hour ago, Red4282 said:

Just curious why you dont like a 243? 

 

 

The stronger lofts and it was just too hot in general. I liked the looks/feel of it tho. 

[edgibson22]

On 7/30/2025 at 11:01 AM, ck800 said:

honestly the biggest thing hurting mizuno these days is that every iron they put out is so damn ugly, especially the "mizuno pro" script

 

the last 3 generations are awful. absolute freefall since the MP-20

Especially that terrible running bird. 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Played the MP64s for a bit, then switched to the MP4s, and have pretty much been playing them ever since (from 2012 or 13, I think). 

 

I did buy the MP18s, but didn't like them as much as the MP4s (and to be honest, I owned them during a bit of a golfing slump for me). of the MBs after the MP18s, I liked the MP20s (or 120s here) the most, and may one day pick up a set.

 

Of the older irons, the MS-11 mentioned by @NRJyzr are fine irons, and very playable. They were very popular in Japan, demonstrated by the fact that the production run went on for a decade or so.

[Red4282]

1 hour ago, Mp14forlife said:

The stronger lofts and it was just too hot in general. I liked the looks/feel of it tho. 

Cant you just adjust the bag gapping accordingly though? Or maybe even better question, down to what iron are you comfortable gaming just a no frills Cb?

[Tree Levino]

1 hour ago, Mp14forlife said:

The stronger lofts and it was just too hot in general. I liked the looks/feel of it tho. 

Bent weak they are lovely. I swing it around 95 mph with 7i and I'm not the highest spin guy. I have them weak by a degree and MMT 105TX shafts. Mine is a big combo 245 4-5, 243 6-7, 241 8-PW. Best set I've owned. Over the last year (played 243 full set at the end of season and moved to this combo this year) I've had maybe 15 under par rounds with them and they've been really consistent. I like the blades in the 8-PW as they have a touch less offset and thinner soles but was happy with the full set of them too. Just really solid sticks. 

[PowerCobra98]

11 hours ago, NRJyzr said:

 

Interestingly, there's no real difference in forgiveness between the MP64 and the S-3.  The MP64's CG is a bit lower.  Not having seen either...  if the S-3 is smaller and you get better results with the 64, maybe it's just that size.  The visual component is often overlooked.

 

The Wilson CB, is this the Staff Model?  Assuming so...  Wilson seems to be using a higher CG in these irons.  Where that's relevant, the lower CG of the mp64 isn't like in play.  It hasn't been measured by GolfWorks so no MOI or CG data, so can't say specifically.  That said, it's interesting that the Staff Model blades have a higher MOI than the S-3, but they also have a higher CG.  I would expect the Staff Model CB would be similar, based on how the Wilson CBs' MOI have compared to their last few MB models.

 

Random ramblings in between meetings.

 

 

For me, I find my Staff Model Blades are way easier to hit than the S-3's.  Maltby numbers or not the Staff Model Blades are very easy blades to play, just like my MP5's.  I did not like the S-3s at all and got rid of them fairly quickly.  

 

I completely agree with the OP the direction of clubs now vs past.  At some point OEMs need to stop shrinking everything.  I don't like large heads but I also don't like tiny heads.  Hard to quantify but there is something to the visual element that contributes to how well you hit an iron.

[Red4282]

28 minutes ago, PowerCobra98 said:

 

For me, I find my Staff Model Blades are way easier to hit than the S-3's.  Maltby numbers or not the Staff Model Blades are very easy blades to play, just like my MP5's.  I did not like the S-3s at all and got rid of them fairly quickly.  

 

I completely agree with the OP the direction of clubs now vs past.  At some point OEMs need to stop shrinking everything.  I don't like large heads but I also don't like tiny heads.  Hard to quantify but there is something to the visual element that contributes to how well you hit an iron.

The big shift has been a progressive set. The older designs saw bladelength the same from 4 iron to PW. So either the long irons looked tiny or the short irons looked big. Modern designs see larger long irons and progressively get smaller as you go into short irons. Functionally it makes total sense. 

[RogerinNewZealand]

3 hours ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

Played the MP64s for a bit, then switched to the MP4s, and have pretty much been playing them ever since (from 2012 or 13, I think). 

 

I did buy the MP18s, but didn't like them as much as the MP4s (and to be honest, I owned them during a bit of a golfing slump for me). of the MBs after the MP18s, I liked the MP20s (or 120s here) the most, and may one day pick up a set.

 

Of the older irons, the MS-11 mentioned by @NRJyzr are fine irons, and very playable. They were very popular in Japan, demonstrated by the fact that the production run went on for a decade or so.

Thanks R

 

Mp 4, 5, 20 to find the next 18 months/ two Summers in New Zealand🤗

 

I bought mp18sc test 7iron ex demo in 2019?

Just nothing special to me.

But i do note Love for Mp18 Mb!

 

Cheers

Rogerinnz

[HawtElephant13]

On 7/31/2025 at 12:02 AM, ScooterMcTavish said:

 

 It's really why the numbers on the bottom of the clubs have become meaningless.

But to OP's question, a GI cavity with more traditional lofts simply doesn't seem to exist right now.  Player's CB?  Yes, but not GI.

 

Not too sure if these irons are what you are looking for but t250 star, elyte hl or g440 hl are all GI heads with traditional-ish, if not outright traditional with the t250 star having a 47 pw and 4 degree progression from there (35 7 iron)

[opensupoverthere27]

All of this S3 hate in here stiiiiiiiiings. I love mine 😅