A few questions regarding club building

[HJK60]

Hi all, I have some straightforward yes/no questions and some not so straightforward questions. Any help is greatly appreciated.

1) To get a club to a certain swing weight, what is your preference on how to add weight? I recently had an iron set built, and the builder added tungsten powder to the epoxy in the head, which I feel like is really the best way to do it. Do shaft weights not affect flexion? 
2) In terms of swing weight, is the number supposed to be "dead on"? For example, if you had an iron come in at D4.67, would you call that a D5 club? How close can you really get?

3) Is there such a thing as "slow-setting epoxy"? Why use that over..."fast-setting" (?)

4) Can you get all of the epoxy out of a shaft without taking the grip off? Would you just need a long/thin drill bit?
5) With lead tape, a 4" long piece of 1/2" wide lead tape equals one full swing weight point, correct?

Thanks in advance... for those wondering, I put 130g C-Taper Xstiff shafts into my 2021 T100 heads. ~D5 swing weight. This was really the first time I dove into the building ins-and-outs and the builder has been really cool with me. I just don't want to bother him too much.
Hank

[Ger21]

1) tip weights

2) The closer the better, but it depends on how sensitive you are to the swingweight.  I don't even own a swingweight scale.

3) Slower setting is usually stronger. I use Brampton's 20/20 long cure.

4) There shouldn't be much epoxy in the shaft, and I drill it out from the tip. Are you trying to drill it out after assembly?

5) Depends on the shaft balance point, actual head weight, and where you put the tape.

[gdb99]

1. I use tip weights. Adding tungsten powder to epoxy, I don’t get how that could be accurate. You need very little epoxy to glue clubs together. How can you measure and be accurate using that method? I have heard of adding tungsten powder down the shaft and using a cork to keep it in place. Tip weights do not affect shaft flex.

 

2. Most people can’t feel a difference between D2 or D3…. 

I try to get within a point when I’m dry fitting. I don’t have a digital scale, so I have no idea how accurate it is. I just get close enough.

 

3. I use fast set, because I’m impatient. Slow setting is good. You have more time to make adjustments when putting everything together, you can squeeze out enough epoxy to get all your clubs built at the same time. With the quick cure stuff, you can build a few clubs, then have to mix some more.

 

4. Is this after the build? It would be hard to get the epoxy dust out. You could get a piece break loose and it would rattle in the shaft.
If you are talking used shafts, you drill and clean out before the build. 

5. Depends on what tape you are using. Golfworks High Density tape is 1” = 1 gram. 

[NosajNeelik]

Tip weights 

 

I have a cheap Golfwrx SW scale it’s good enough and I can feel the difference. One of my best investments 

[Socrates]

2 hours ago, HJK60 said:

Hi all, I have some straightforward yes/no questions and some not so straightforward questions. Any help is greatly appreciated.

1) To get a club to a certain swing weight, what is your preference on how to add weight? I recently had an iron set built, and the builder added tungsten powder to the epoxy in the head, which I feel like is really the best way to do it. Do shaft weights not affect flexion? 
2) In terms of swing weight, is the number supposed to be "dead on"? For example, if you had an iron come in at D4.67, would you call that a D5 club? How close can you really get?

3) Is there such a thing as "slow-setting epoxy"? Why use that over..."fast-setting" (?)

4) Can you get all of the epoxy out of a shaft without taking the grip off? Would you just need a long/thin drill bit?
5) With lead tape, a 4" long piece of 1/2" wide lead tape equals one full swing weight point, correct?

Thanks in advance... for those wondering, I put 130g C-Taper Xstiff shafts into my 2021 T100 heads. ~D5 swing weight. This was really the first time I dove into the building ins-and-outs and the builder has been really cool with me. I just don't want to bother him too much.
Hank

1.) Tungsten powder is not the best way.  Leads to using too much epoxy which usually goes up the shaft.  Tip weights are used by every OEM now.  I really like using lead tape.  Tip weights do NOT affect flex.  Too much substrate (tungsten, beads, sugar, whatever) in the epoxy can weaken the epoxy and lead to problems.

 

2.) Really hard to get to an exact swing weight which is why I like lead tape,  Then it is easy.

 

3.) If there is an option, you should always used long cure epoxy.  Short cure epoxy is usually more brittle and doesn't have the elasticity of a 24hr cure epoxy.  If need be, you can heat cure a 24 hr epoxy so that it cures in under an hour.  Typically long cure has greater shear strength.

 

4.) You can get the epoxy out of a shaft without taking off the grip.  I use a long piece of brass rod that you can insert into the vent hole.  The drawback is that sometimes it doesn't work and then you end up cutting off the grip to get the rod out.

 

5.) Length of the club changes the amount of weight needed to achieve one SW point.  Takes less on a driver than it does on a PW.

[RogerinNewZealand]

Buy a small digital scale

 

Buy a swingvweight scale

 

Buy golfworks tip weights

 

Epoxy. Two pot mix

Slow set, at least 24hr to set.

Tip..assemble at 7 to 8pm

So 7am you pick em up tgey are ok to handle.

But stilk wait till next day to put grips on.so 24 + 12 hrs minimum

Especially in winter.

 

Heat gun eg bigger hair dryer to melt your epoxy mix so you can pull apart.

 

Weigh all items, keep notes🤗

[Howard_Jones]

7 hours ago, HJK60 said:

Hi all, I have some straightforward yes/no questions and some not so straightforward questions. Any help is greatly appreciated.

1) To get a club to a certain swing weight, what is your preference on how to add weight? I recently had an iron set built, and the builder added tungsten powder to the epoxy in the head, which I feel like is really the best way to do it. Do shaft weights not affect flexion? 

Tip weights.
- Lead tape is good for testing and tunging, to figure out how much weight is needed.
SW values shall ONLY be target AFTER a "blind tune up test" is done. (add or remove weight untill it feels right and impact is good...wiithout a clue about who much we added, untill we are done and back  home to measure that) We should never add tungsten powder to the epoxy, its a "back alley method" thats no good. Compared to the shafts design, TRUE SW below D2 makes the shaft to play stronger with 1 CPM per 1 SWP and opposite. Example, D2 is standard, our blind test tune up brings us to D6 (dont happen very ofrten). We are now adding 4 SWP the shaft must handle, who weakens flex 4 CPM or equal to soft stepped once.

 

 

7 hours ago, HJK60 said:

2) In terms of swing weight, is the number supposed to be "dead on"? For example, if you had an iron come in at D4.67, would you call that a D5 club? How close can you really get?

 

We shall try to duplicate the "blind tested tuned up club" as best as we can, so ideal is "spot on", so it boild down to how lrge tolerances is accepable? That will vary from OEM to OEM and club builder to club builder, and my own standard was "within 0.25 SWP from target (plus minus 0.25 SWP)
D4.67 is expressed like that value is, or as D4 2/3, NOT as D5. (we use exact values, and judge them by comparing them to our accepted tolerances, but the value remains as it is.

 

 

7 hours ago, HJK60 said:

3) Is there such a thing as "slow-setting epoxy"? Why use that over..."fast-setting" (?)

4) Can you get all of the epoxy out of a shaft without taking the grip off? Would you just need a long/thin drill bit?

5) With lead tape, a 4" long piece of 1/2" wide lead tape equals one full swing weight point, 

#3 . Slow = 24h / Fast 30 minutes, the last shall only be used for "test clubs" in a fitting studio.

#4 - If install is done right, there is most often no epoxy in the shaft tip to be removed when pulling, so its more a question of how we use epoxy and how much. We can and should avoid to fill the shaft tip wth epoxy, it got no job to do there. The method to use to avoid epoxy in the shaft tip goes like this: . Mix 0.5 grams per club, expect NET use to be about 0.35 grams (0.15 lost on the mixing paper and as wipe off). Add epoxy in stripes, from the ferrule to the tip. Add epoxy to ONLY the upper 1/3 of the hosel, install the shaft UP (hold the head upside down) into the hosel while you rotate it. This will make a full epoxy bound between the hosel from the ferrule to the tip, but hardly no if any epoxy will find its way into the shaft tip. (those who "fill the hosel" with epoxy does this all wrong, and ends up with most of the epoxy indside of the shaft tip.)

#5 - 1 SWP to grams vary with play lenght, so the answer is NO
If we have a 45" long driver 1SWP is only 1.6 grams, but if the club is a 10 inch shorter LOB edge, we are up at 2.36 grams per SWP....all other clubs on a fluid progression between thos 2 points, so FORGET the rule of thumb who say 2 grams is 1 SWP, its usleess 

END NOTE
- There is MANY factors that have a ifluence on SW values, lie angles, presice cut of play lengths to mention 2, and SW should really be tuned up UN-GRIPPED, so we dont fool ourself and adjust head wgt, due to tolerances in grip wgt who only fools the SW scale. A good build starts with the Blind test tune up", where we later measure, UN.gripped, so we get the correct dry fit value. Then we shall adjust loft and lie for all heads, since later changes moves SW. If SW values is off on the play redy clubs, our measurements and notes will explain why, example grip wgt.

Tolerances and its effect on SW value
- Lie angles, 4 = 1 SWP, so a later adjustment (after build is done) by only 1.0" moves SW with 0.25 SWP. Play leghts moves SW with 0.75 SWP fo each 1/8", and since 1/8" is right above 3 mm, we can use rounded numbers and say 1 mm off on PL = 0.25 SWP. Converted to "grams head wgt" it will vary, but for irons who need 2.0 to 2.3 Grams per SWP, 0.25" SWP off due to PL or Lie angles, is equal to 0.5 to 0,55 grams of head wgt. That means during the build prosess, EVERYTHING must be done correct, if not we will have 1 or more parameters that combined can move our target specs for SW way off, even if we did our best to get head wgt right....

So...what level of club making are you willing to pay for, and what tolerances?
To make sets where the tolerances combined gives us clubs where SW values is within 0.25 SWP is NOT a "10 minute per cub" job, its takes about 1 hour per club, where 3_PW is a full day job. (Blueprint of all specs)

[ShortGolfer]

The big benefit of assembling your own clubs is the ability to spend as much time as you need to get it right.

Lead tape can be added to the head to determine the exact swing weight required.  The shaft can then be pulled and the lead tape replaced with tip weight.

My XXIO iron heads have a convenient flat shelf to affix lead weight.  I add hot melt to over the tape, and use a heat gun to reflow the hot melt.  Hot melt can be used to increase SW by a tiny amont.

 

I strongly recommend getting an air compressor to blow grips on and off.  That will make it easier to experiment with ideas like counter-balance weights in the butt end of the shaft.

 

My eight iron is 1/8 inch long.  I may look into that during the winter.

Edited July 30 by ShortGolfer

[Golf Pig]

4) As mentioned it’s best to swingweight a club that’s ungripped. If you absolutely need to drill out the epoxy with the grip on, this tool will let you easily remove the bits of epoxy so you don’t end up with it rattling inside the shaft. It also gives you access to drill from the grip end although drilling from the shaft tip end is the most common method.

 

https://www.golfworks.com/the-golfworks-grip-saver/p/saver/

[HJK60]

Thanks all for the help. Did not expect this level of detail.

Just a quick story for all of you below. This happened today. I feel bad about this one.

I went to Club Champion to put my C-Tapers in my T100 heads. Upon picking them up, we learned he didn't orient the shafts correctly (the shafts are pured), and the 8-iron is in the hosel at a very obvious acute angle, with an almost diagonal ferrule. Swing weight of the 7-iron was D1.2, 9-iron was D5.1 and the rest of the clubs were around D3.5. The 4-iron was the only club he nailed in terms of swing weight and shaft orientation/ferrule grinding. After about 10-minutes of chatting about this or that, the other kid working there said he'd take care of the 7-iron and 9-iron (the ones that were way off in swing weight) and I could come back later today to pick those up. We kind of agree'd that the few where the shafts weren't seated in line with the pure line were splitting hairs (the faces were a little open when squared), so I just kind of hung my hat on those few clubs and took it on the chin. My favorite line from the guy was "what's square to you may look closed or open to me." Then the kid offered to check lies and lofts. All was going OK there until he put my wedge in thinking it was my 9, and bent my wedge from 45 to 40 degrees, then goes "whoops, that was your wedge." 

At this point I'm just like, what is happening...But I decided to leave my 7 and 9 for the kid to re-shaft and re-weight them, shook his hand and walked out. No arguments, no raising voices or anything, just a sort of vibe like "hey man, you really f*cked this up" and "we know it's f*cked up, but we aren't going to apologize or admit anything to you." Then when I got to my car, I remembered I forgot to ask for a refund for a different shaft I ordered with them (another mistake, they overcharge on shafts). So I walk back in.... the same kid that just shook my hand and said he'd do it right... is in the simulator just banging balls. I can't make this up. Maybe they were all high?

I went straight to Edwin Watts to have them look at the clubs I did have. That's when we discovered the 8-iron wasn't even in the hosel correctly and the swing weights were all off. So, I decide that the whole set was a wash, and drove back to Club C to get the 7 and 9. When I walked in... the guy didn't even acknowledge me after I politely said "hey [name] I'm just gonna grab the rest of my clubs" ... Guy straight up didn't even look at me. I didn't make a scene about it, walked into the build room, grabbed my clubs, and just quietly walked out. No one tried to stop me, nothing.

Look, no one really wins in this situation, but I am $160 cash in the hole. I'm not here to knock anyone, but man this one felt weird. I really felt like I got screwed. Learning is expensive. I mean this was crazy. I mean, are there really people out there like this?

I don't want to make this sound like an advertisement but I did take them to some guys I trust at Edwin Watts to pull the shafts again, drill epoxy, save grips, and clean heads. I will report back with their findings - he said he'll have them done by this evening. I hope nothings bent or something bad like that. I should've just went there first, but got impatient because their builder was on vacation.

Anyways, sheesh. Had to share that one. I was really cool about the whole thing. Have to give myself a pat on the back there. Most people would've blown their top off. I'm not one of those guys, but a part of me just can't believe there are people out there like this. And honestly it's my mistake for going there in the first place, but sometimes you get that bubbly warm feeling and think things will be all sunshine and rainbows until you're $160 in the hole with nothing to show for it. I gave them the benefit of the doubt and got screwed. s*** happens, but this was too weird not to share.



 

Edited July 30 by HJK60

[Socrates]

1 hour ago, HJK60 said:

Thanks all for the help. Did not expect this level of detail.

Just a quick story for all of you below. This happened today. I feel bad about this one.

I went to Club Champion to put my C-Tapers in my T100 heads. Upon picking them up, we learned he didn't orient the shafts correctly (the shafts are pured), and the 8-iron is in the hosel at a very obvious acute angle, with an almost diagonal ferrule. Swing weight of the 7-iron was D1.2, 9-iron was D5.1 and the rest of the clubs were around D3.5. The 4-iron was the only club he nailed in terms of swing weight and shaft orientation/ferrule grinding. After about 10-minutes of chatting about this or that, the other kid working there said he'd take care of the 7-iron and 9-iron (the ones that were way off in swing weight) and I could come back later today to pick those up. We kind of agree'd that the few where the shafts weren't seated in line with the pure line were splitting hairs (the faces were a little open when squared), so I just kind of hung my hat on those few clubs and took it on the chin. My favorite line from the guy was "what's square to you may look closed or open to me." Then the kid offered to check lies and lofts. All was going OK there until he put my wedge in thinking it was my 9, and bent my wedge from 45 to 40 degrees, then goes "whoops, that was your wedge." 

At this point I'm just like, what is happening...But I decided to leave my 7 and 9 for the kid to re-shaft and re-weight them, shook his hand and walked out. No arguments, no raising voices or anything, just a sort of vibe like "hey man, you really f*cked this up" and "we know it's f*cked up, but we aren't going to apologize or admit anything to you." Then when I got to my car, I remembered I forgot to ask for a refund for a different shaft I ordered with them (another mistake, they overcharge on shafts). So I walk back in.... the same kid that just shook my hand and said he'd do it right... is in the simulator just banging balls. I can't make this up. Maybe they were all high?

I went straight to Edwin Watts to have them look at the clubs I did have. That's when we discovered the 8-iron wasn't even in the hosel correctly and the swing weights were all off. So, I decide that the whole set was a wash, and drove back to Club C to get the 7 and 9. When I walked in... the guy didn't even acknowledge me after I politely said "hey [name] I'm just gonna grab the rest of my clubs" ... Guy straight up didn't even look at me. I didn't make a scene about it, walked into the build room, grabbed my clubs, and just quietly walked out. No one tried to stop me, nothing.

Look, no one really wins in this situation, but I am $160 cash in the hole. I'm not here to knock anyone, but man this one felt weird. I really felt like I got screwed. Learning is expensive. I mean this was crazy. I mean, are there really people out there like this?

I don't want to make this sound like an advertisement but I did take them to some guys I trust at Edwin Watts to pull the shafts again, drill epoxy, save grips, and clean heads. I will report back with their findings - he said he'll have them done by this evening. I hope nothings bent or something bad like that. I should've just went there first, but got impatient because their builder was on vacation.

Anyways, sheesh. Had to share that one. I was really cool about the whole thing. Have to give myself a pat on the back there. Most people would've blown their top off. I'm not one of those guys, but a part of me just can't believe there are people out there like this. And honestly it's my mistake for going there in the first place, but sometimes you get that bubbly warm feeling and think things will be all sunshine and rainbows until you're $160 in the hole with nothing to show for it. I gave them the benefit of the doubt and got screwed. s*** happens, but this was too weird not to share.
 

Sorry that you had a hack assembling your clubs.  Hope you have better luck at EW.  I would ask for all my money back and ask for a new PW or a complete whole new set of heads.  Go right past the young twerp and straight to the manager.  They might just be hoping you go away but I wouldn't go away.  I hope you took pictures.

[HJK60]

It's all good man. Live and learn. I just got back from EW. The guy at EW was awesome. Didn't even charge me he felt so bad. I threw him 20 bucks. Lifetime customer earned. 

 

What we learned is my 7-iron was shorter than my 8-iron and was tipped. And, they tried corking the 7i shaft instead of taking the head off to get the swing weight up from that D1-ish number. Guy at EW thinks someone maybe mixed the shafts up during install and tried tipping one or the other. I'm not sure. I didn't quite follow him there.

Anyways we come to find out they ordered the wrong shaft (because it was parallel tipped, as I understand it - and just from looking at it), and they cut it a half inch too short, so it was actually a hair shorter than my 8i shaft. This had to of happened maybe a week ago (when I had to order the 7i shaft, because that's the shaft I was missing from the set - the C-tapers were resurrected because I've been missing the 7i shaft for ~5 years), but just learned this today with the shafts finally pulled / for me to see with no heads.

Just an overall diabolical/rare situation. But I've learned a ton.

I did go back today around 5:30 and just explained everything (I brought the shafts in and showed them the tip of the 7i and how it was actually shorter than the 8i). Guy tried giving me a hard time again, but ultimately, I am getting my $160 back and they are going to re-order an uncut, pure'd 7i length C-taper. Which is still a complete waste of my $180 I paid for that (want to clarify I didn't repay for this, he just ordered the correct 7i this time). But, dignity = intact, wallet = slightly lighter.
 

Edited July 30 by HJK60

[Lefty Mondegreen]

We've heard all the stories from the assembly line days, wrong shaft, shafts trimmed straight across at a cutting bench, instead of trimmed in the 1/2" (or 9/16"!!) progression, "made for" shafts wildly out of spec ....  It's sad that this happens at a place that should offer better (reminds me of the fast talker who installed my windshield using the old broken trim anchors ... whistled like a kettle).  My builder who charged $5 a pull moved back to the countryside.  So, I have to roll up my sleeves and light up the Bernzomatic, unless I want to interrupt a helpful hard working shop owner with my latest Goodwill find.  

 

Have we mentioned the drill/brushes to remove epoxy from the hosel and shaft?  Also, some times you'll be pleasantly surprised as heat and drilling breaks down the epoxy with friction once you get in there.

 

https://www.golfworks.com/wire-hosel-cleaning-bits/p/gw0160/ 

 

Even if your shaft is clean, make sure to push a tee through any old tape at the grip to make a hole so air pressure can escape.  Finally, I love the trick to cut 25 2" squares of shop towel and wet them with rubbing alcohol for easy clean up as you work. 

 

Keep digging.  Lots to learn here.  

Edited July 30 by Lefty Mondegreen

[HJK60]

31 minutes ago, Lefty Mondegreen said:

We've heard all the stories from the assembly line days, wrong shaft, shafts trimmed straight across at a cutting bench, instead of trimmed in the 1/2" (or 9/16"!!) progression, "made for" shafts wildly out of spec ....  It's sad that this happens at a place that should offer better (reminds me of the fast talker who installed my windshield using the old broken trim anchors ... whistled like a kettle).  My builder who charged $5 a pull moved back to the countryside.  So, I have to roll up my sleeves and light up the Bernzomatic, unless I want to interrupt a helpful hard working shop owner with my latest Goodwill find.  

 

Have we mentioned the drill/brushes to remove epoxy from the hosel and shaft?  Also, some times you'll be pleasantly surprised as heat and drilling breaks down the epoxy with friction once you get in there.

 

https://www.golfworks.com/wire-hosel-cleaning-bits/p/gw0160/ 

 

Even if your shaft is clean, make sure to push a tee through any old tape at the grip to make a hole so air pressure can escape.  Finally, I love the trick to cut 25 2" squares of shop towel and wet them with rubbing alcohol for easy clean up as you work. 

 

Keep digging.  Lots to learn here.  

Appreciate this man. Lots of good tips and tricks here. Would've never thought of the air pressure after putting on a head / grip. Only have heard people doing that to get grip solvent out faster and drying faster. 

That's where this all started for me about a year ago...doing my grips. I was using the PGA tour superstore grip solvent and it doesn't dry fast at all. No joke you need to wait like a week with the new stuff there. Spent close to a grand trying different grips because I wanted something close to a TV midsize because I couldn't get the TV midsize to stop spinning near the butt. Drove me nuts. Finally bought some mineral spirits and never had the problem again. 

Edited July 31 by HJK60

[HJK60]

I do have another question...and am going to use a tooth/root canal analogy to explain it. 

When I got the heads back from EW today, some of the heads (in the hosel) looked like they had total root canals, and others looked like the epoxy was just drilled out and the base ("root") was still there. Does this make sense? Like, some of the hosels looked deep, while others had that "base"...unless that was just epoxy too. 

There does look to be a slight rim to prevent the shaft from going all the way down the clubhead, if that makes sense. So maybe some of them he just got all of the epoxy out (the root canal), and others he just pulled the tooth (epoxy drilled out only to the "rim" where the shaft eventually stops). 

I will post pics if ya'll need.

Edited July 31 by HJK60

[Lefty Mondegreen]

Some clubs have "weight ports" in the hosel, TM, Wishon, Maltby, Golfsmith ... but I haven't heard that T100 is one of them.  There can be varying depths and tolerances for machining in there below that rim (and drilling can lower head/singweight for overlength builds).  

 

Sometimes the shaft comes out clean, and sometimes clean up is needed.  It's handy to keep a drill with a brush or drill bit with scotch brite to clear out the hosels as you pull each shaft ... but it doesn't always happen.  I use hosel plugs to avoid build up below the rim. 

 

Also, unscented, clear hairspray in a pump container can be used to install a grip when time is short.  Two hours before tee time is my record.  

[HJK60]

9 minutes ago, Lefty Mondegreen said:

Some clubs have "weight ports" in the hosel, TM, Wishon, Maltby, Golfsmith ... but I haven't heard that T100 is one of them.  There can be varying depths and tolerances for machining in there below that rim (and drilling can lower head/singweight for overlength builds).  

 

Sometimes the shaft comes out clean, and sometimes clean up is needed.  It's handy to keep a drill with a brush or drill bit with scotch brite to clear out the hosels as you pull each shaft ... but it doesn't always happen.  I use hosel plugs to avoid build up below the rim. 

 

Also, unscented, clear hairspray in a pump container can be used to install a grip when time is short.  Two hours before tee time is my record.  

 

Right, so I should clarify. I'm talking about some of the heads looking like there is another inch long hole after that rim where the shaft would stop. So call it two inches total. And some of the heads look like there is a base there and the whole thing is just a little over an inch deep. The epoxy is all drilled out for sure, there just seems to be another deep hole in two of the heads versus the rest. It's hard to explain. And yeah I've heard that. You're being generous with 2 hours. That thing is ready to rip in 30 minutes with mineral spirits.

[Lefty Mondegreen]

Don't see any pics on line of what I'm looking for ... but sounds like you could have some drilling, if its not just extra machining (do they drill hosels in steps at the factory?)  Again, I cap the void to keep stray epoxy out ... but at this point, I wonder if I'm tidy enough to do without the plug, following Howard's method ... 

There is a thread or three on drilling to lower head weight for longer or lightweight clubs.

[gdb99]

Crazy story. Stories like makes me happy that I can do my own club work. Hope everything works out for you.

[HJK60]

42 minutes ago, gdb99 said:

Crazy story. Stories like makes me happy that I can do my own club work. Hope everything works out for you.

Thanks brother. I have a cart going on golfworks as we speak... 

 

This thread is going to end with me building my own irons and taking apart my wedges/woods and rebuilding them. At this point I don't trust anybody but myself. I even just went out to my garage and looked at an old set of shelf-bought 712 MB's and wouldn't you know the 6 and 7 iron shafts are not centered...albeit maybe years of use there. But I feel that would affect lie, not the shaft being off center....

 

Anyways...

 

***if anyone has any serious tips or tricks, please, please share them. For ex lefty above saying to poke a hole in grip tape, not for solvent, but for air to escape is a good one. Would have never thought of that.

I went through hell regripping my clubs with solvent from PGA Tour Superstore, for example. The stuff just doesn't dry. Finally ended up using mineral spirits and my grip spinning issue went away completely. I'm talking about stupid stuff like that. Guys that have ran into dumb problems that have ran you up a wall until you figured it out. Please share.

 

tools (gonna hit home depot tomorrow)
1) hosel wire brushes (drill bit form)
2) HSS drill bit 12" 1/8 size (the grips are all off as-is (incl. tape) so should make epoxy drilling in the shaft easy)
^Any thoughts on drilling/"grooving" the inside of the shaft by accident? Thoughts on using bare drill bit inside the head / problems there?
3) quick center (anyone have an opinion on this over glass shafting beads? There are two options on the site). - need to 1-day this from golfworks.
^Anyone free handing this part with just epoxy?

4) mixing cups

6) high density tungsten powder and brass shaft weights (thinking of doing 2g weights with a bit of powder for 4-7 irons) - 1-day shipping these on golfworks

7) collared ferrule tool and ferrules - 1-day shipping these on golfworks

 

This thread is going to end with pics of my clubs assembled in DIY fashion. Turning down the ferrules will be tricky but I have an idea. I mean, I'm almost positive I can do a better job than the guy at CC, and this time I'll be putting my DG X100's in my T100 heads. The DG's are not pured so I don't have to worry about orientation...right?
 

other notes: 
EW has in store lie/loft machine they let public use with a few bucks. good there.

 

Edited July 31 by HJK60

[HJK60]

Easier to break this up...

1) Do I need head plugs of some sort for those clubs I told you about that look like they have deeper than normal holes in the hosel? Or do I just put epoxy down there? Or do nothing with it?
2) Epoxy goes inside the head hosel, on the swing weight, and a little on the prepped tip, correct?
3) Will the shaft only go so far into the hosel? Is it best to let the shaft seat fully into the bottom (no epoxy there, only on the in-sides (literally) of the hosel and around the shaft tip?
4) Best practice on how to orient clubs to dry?

[gdb99]

33 minutes ago, HJK60 said:

Thanks brother. I have a cart going on golfworks as we speak... 

 

This thread is going to end with me building my own irons and taking apart my wedges/woods and rebuilding them. At this point I don't trust anybody but myself. I even just went out to my garage and looked at an old set of shelf-bought 712 MB's and wouldn't you know the 6 and 7 iron shafts are not centered...albeit maybe years of use there. But I feel that would affect lie, not the shaft being off center....

 

Anyways...

 

***if anyone has any serious tips or tricks, please, please share them. For ex lefty above saying to poke a hole in grip tape, not for solvent, but for air to escape is a good one. Would have never thought of that.

I went through hell regripping my clubs with solvent from PGA Tour Superstore, for example. The stuff just doesn't dry. Finally ended up using mineral spirits and my grip spinning issue went away completely. I'm talking about stupid stuff like that. Guys that have ran into dumb problems that have ran you up a wall until you figured it out. Please share.

 

tools (gonna hit home depot tomorrow)
1) hosel wire brushes (drill bit form)
2) HSS drill bit 12" 1/8 size (the grips are all off as-is (incl. tape) so should make epoxy drilling in the shaft easy)
^Any thoughts on drilling/"grooving" the inside of the shaft by accident? Thoughts on using bare drill bit inside the head / problems there?
3) quick center (anyone have an opinion on this over glass shafting beads? There are two options on the site). - need to 1-day this from golfworks.
^Anyone free handing this part with just epoxy?

4) mixing cups

6) high density tungsten powder and brass shaft weights (thinking of doing 2g weights with a bit of powder for 4-7 irons) - 1-day shipping these on golfworks

7) collared ferrule tool and ferrules - 1-day shipping these on golfworks

 

This thread is going to end with pics of my clubs assembled in DIY fashion. Turning down the ferrules will be tricky but I have an idea. I mean, I'm almost positive I can do a better job than the guy at CC, and this time I'll be putting my DG X100's in my T100 heads. The DG's are not pured so I don't have to worry about orientation...right?
 

other notes: 
EW has in store lie/loft machine they let public use with a few bucks. good there.

 

Hosel brushes are good to have. I also have a dremel tool with different bits to clean out old epoxy. Just a good flat screw driver can remove epoxy when it’s still warm from removing a head is good. 
I don’t understand #2. The only time I have ever needed a 12” 1/8” drill bill is when a friend of mine bought a used shaft, and there was a ton of epoxy up the tip. Once in the 40 years I have been tinkering with club building. 
You do not need quick center or shafting beads. Ever. If the shaft isn’t tight enough, use a shim.

I use an old Golfworks catalog for mixing epoxy. It’s free.

 have never used tungsten powder. I have an assortment of brass tip weights, for steel and graphite shafts.

Some irons and woods need collard ferrules. Not all. I buy them when I need them. Certain OEM’s drivers, irons, hybrids, need a special ferrule. Most irons I have used don’t need collard ferrules. 
A graphite shafts puller I have has saved friends and me a lot of money. I have a hydraulic one. 
 

This tool can be handy. I have a couple that were given to me:

 

https://www.golfworks.com/44-1-2-heavy-duty-heating-rod-rr-445/p/rr-445/

Edited July 31 by gdb99

[HJK60]

34 minutes ago, gdb99 said:

Hosel brushes are good to have. I also have a dremel tool with different bits to clean out old epoxy. Just a good flat screw driver can remove epoxy when it’s still warm from removing a head is good. 
I don’t understand #2. The only time I have ever needed a 12” 1/8” drill bill is when a friend of mine bought a used shaft, and there was a ton of epoxy up the tip. Once in the 40 years I have been tinkering with club building. 
You do not need quick center or shafting beads. Ever. If the shaft isn’t tight enough, use a shim.

I use an old Golfworks catalog for mixing epoxy. It’s free.

 have never used tungsten powder. I have an assortment of brass tip weights, for steel and graphite shafts.

Some irons and woods need collard ferrules. Not all. I buy them when I need them. Certain OEM’s drivers, irons, hybrids, need a special ferrule. Most irons I have used don’t need collard ferrules. 
A graphite shafts puller I have has saved friends and me a lot of money. I have a hydraulic one. 
 

This tool can be handy. I have a couple that were given to me:

 

https://www.golfworks.com/44-1-2-heavy-duty-heating-rod-rr-445/p/rr-445/

Thanks dude. Didn't realize there were two different ferrule tools. I switched it from the collared one to the standard one (black writing on the side instead of red). I'm going to dry fit the ferrules first. I guess if you nail it, there's no turning down needed, only sanding. 

A part of me feels I'm over-complicating this... and yeah I axed the drill bit too. I actually just drilled out the epoxy in my X100s and did it with a small bit at first, then went up a bit. The shafts are clear. Also found my 6i shaft to be ever so slightly bent. I think I'm going to orient that one opposite of flexion for the time being while I get one in the mail. It's very, very slight.

 

So you're saying the shaft should just center itself with the epoxy around it? It would really irk me if it's off a hair. I want it to be perfect. When I dry fit the club, it feels pretty snug as-is so I see what you're saying.

 

Will probably buy the ram rod because I was thinking of old epoxy breaking off in the shaft post-assembly. That would drive me nuts, especially if it happened mid-round. I feel the brushed wire tip would really take care of that too. I drilled out the epoxy without heating it up....?

I still need the brass weights, epoxy, and ferrules. Other than that I mean I think I'm good. I can use a pair of hand clamps to hold the face to the edge of my bench while I insert the shaft. That's what she said.

Edited July 31 by HJK60

[HJK60]

Alright, can you chime in here? So this is what I was talking about with my wedge. This and another iron is like this. I forget which one. See how deep this looks? What do I put down there, because the shaft doesn't go far enough down, so there'll be a pocket of air there. Do I just fill it with epoxy? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And here's two shots of normal heads, same set obviously: 
 

 

 

 

[HJK60]

This is the other head (8i) like the wedge. Has that same deep gap after the ridge. It's looks like a half an inch. None of the other heads except the wedge and 8i are like this.

What do I do with this?

 

 

[Howard_Jones]

What we see down there is a hosel weight port, they are most often 7mm wide x 15mm deep and can take a 9 gr tungsten wgt.

...seems like some mods ha been done to the hosel top too, some heads look like made for collared ferrules, the others dont?

[gdb99]

4 hours ago, HJK60 said:

I guess if you nail it, there's no turning down needed, only sanding. 

A part of me feels I'm over-complicating this...

 

So you're saying the shaft should just center itself with the epoxy around it? It would really irk me if it's off a hair. I want it to be perfect. When I dry fit the club, it feels pretty snug as-is so I see what you're saying.

 

Will probably buy the ram rod because I was thinking of old epoxy breaking off in the shaft post-assembly. That would drive me nuts, especially if it happened mid-round. I feel the brushed wire tip would really take care of that too. I drilled out the epoxy without heating it up....?

I still need the brass weights, epoxy, and ferrules. Other than that I mean I think I'm good. I can use a pair of hand clamps to hold the face to the edge of my bench while I insert the shaft. That's what she said.

You can’t just sand the ferrules. You need to wipe them down with acetone after sanding to get smooth again. That’s why I buy ferrules that are as close as I can to the hosel size. 
 

There are some great videos on YouTube that show club building. That would help you a lot. Do some research.

 

You don’t use a lot of epoxy. It shouldn’t be breaking off, you don’t drill it out after assembly. The only time I’ve have epoxy break off is when buying used clubs, and they used way too much epoxy when assembling. You need very little. 
 

Clamps? You need the head in one hand and the shaft in the other… Put them together, tap on the floor to seat the head, wipe excess epoxy off, stand up to dry. 

Edited July 31 by gdb99

[Lefty Mondegreen]

6 hours ago, HJK60 said:

What do I do with this?

 

That's where the hosel plug would go.  I have a piece of steel shaft of the right diameter that I sharpened to use as a punch for aluminum cans.  They say to sand the paint/sealant off first.  I don't see them for irons, I guess I am the only one using them!! 

 

What do they do to the head weight progression?

 

Filling the cavity with epoxy throws off your swing weight and hides the fact that they are there.  Golfsmith used to be the standard (and their alumni Maltby and Wishon), but ... kaput.  Don't see the weights for sale much any more, but builders must have a source ... Others report success with fishing tackle.  

[Ty_Guy]

9 hours ago, HJK60 said:

Thanks dude. Didn't realize there were two different ferrule tools. I switched it from the collared one to the standard one (black writing on the side instead of red). I'm going to dry fit the ferrules first. I guess if you nail it, there's no turning down needed, only sanding. 

A part of me feels I'm over-complicating this... and yeah I axed the drill bit too. I actually just drilled out the epoxy in my X100s and did it with a small bit at first, then went up a bit. The shafts are clear. Also found my 6i shaft to be ever so slightly bent. I think I'm going to orient that one opposite of flexion for the time being while I get one in the mail. It's very, very slight.

 

So you're saying the shaft should just center itself with the epoxy around it? It would really irk me if it's off a hair. I want it to be perfect. When I dry fit the club, it feels pretty snug as-is so I see what you're saying.

 

Will probably buy the ram rod because I was thinking of old epoxy breaking off in the shaft post-assembly. That would drive me nuts, especially if it happened mid-round. I feel the brushed wire tip would really take care of that too. I drilled out the epoxy without heating it up....?

I still need the brass weights, epoxy, and ferrules. Other than that I mean I think I'm good. I can use a pair of hand clamps to hold the face to the edge of my bench while I insert the shaft. That's what she said.

 

There are quite a bit of tools needed to to it perfectly, but if you're happy going back to your local shop for tricky situations, you can get away with a fairly small build setup:

 

General Use:

Clamp/vise with rubber shaft holder

Painter's tape

48" Ruler with 60 degree block/guide to measure clubs

 

Shaft and Clubhead Prep:

Hacksaw w/ 24tpi or finer blade

Sandpaper - I use lower grits

Drill and bits (a quick sweep around with 5/16 gets out enough old epoxy)

Circular Metal file - easy to prep adapters/clubheads

 

Club Install:

24 hour epoxy

Grip tape and grips

Matching ferrule

 

Assuming you already have a drill, these will be less than $150 and cover nearly all your installs. Most importantly, it will take up very little space.

 

Bits like lead tape are always handy to nail down SW. A heat gun and grip knife utility blade become very useful as you change out grips. You can buy ferrules as needed per project or I'm sure you local shop will sell them for a dollar or two if you need one immediately.

 

This will do everything except for the obvious shaft extraction. Again, spend $220 on a shaft extractor for yourself or bring in a club to your shop and have them pop it off for ~$15. I will build the club, add lead tape to find the SW (if needed), then get it extracted and rebuild with the appropriate tip weight. This process sort of forces me to test SW for a week before committing to the rebuild. Things like removing SW (reaming out clubhead material), smoothing out custom ferrules, shaft shims, and other unique situations is where I would rely on a shop to help or go ahead and dive in and purchase all the club building goodies.

 

Loft and lie bending is a bigger expense. I have not purchased on of these machines and am perfectly happy relying on a shop for this.

[Golf Pig]

12 hours ago, HJK60 said:

2) HSS drill bit 12" 1/8 size (the grips are all off as-is (incl. tape) so should make epoxy drilling in the shaft easy)
^Any thoughts on drilling/"grooving" the inside of the shaft by accident?

 

You can use a larger diameter bit to drill out the epoxy from a pulled steel shaft. As long as you're not really careless I wouldn't worry about damaging the inside of the shaft. However, for graphite I'd recommend this self-centering chuck for drilling out tips. It comes with a short 1/8" drill bit but I found some Bosch 6" bits that work way better. The 5/32 bit (BL2637) fits the self-centering hole perfectly.

 

https://www.golfworks.com/self-centering-graphite-shaft-tip-cleaner/p/gw1110/