Do you study GRF traces to try to improve?

[getitdaily]

More and more youtube channels are showing grf traces...TPI, GRF golf, etc.

 

Do you study traces so you have an understanding of how to move and has that helped you improve? 

[virtuoso]

26 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

More and more youtube channels are showing grf traces...TPI, GRF golf, etc.

 

Do you study traces so you have an understanding of how to move and has that helped you improve? 

You know how I feel, GRF measurements are critical, but can sometimes be overrated.

[getitdaily]

11 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

You know how I feel, GRF measurements are critical, but can sometimes be overrated.

Yes, but I'm interested in how many of us avg joes actually look at that stuff and try to use it without the benefit of plates...

[sundaypins]

39 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Do you study traces so you have an understanding of how to move and has that helped you improve? 

 

No, never will either beyond possibly looking at the colorful pictures because I know how our mass mingles with ground's resistance for our benefit. 

[wagolfer7]

2 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Do you study traces so you have an understanding of how to move and has that helped you improve? 

I think I have good general understanding of pressure and GFR.  At least as good as one can be without using the tech daily and analyzing thousands of swings.    

 

I think in the beginning it hurt me.  Trying to artificially create pressure and GFR can be a bad thing, at least it was for me.  Just like anything else in golf - doing 1 thing better or correctly is not always going to end up in positive results.  Especially if you do something else incorrectly to get the result that your working on.  Looking back, I think I was so focused on pressure and GFR, that even though I was increasing pressure and feeling the right movements....I never got my COM moving forward enough.  Separating pressure in my lead side and COM was something I completely missed.  You can get lead side pressure, but your COM stays back. 

 

In the end it is now paying dividends, as I'm hitting the ball further.  But I think it's just like anything else in golf.  Knowing and being able to apply it, are 2 totally different things.  And if you can't apply it, you might not know it as well as you think.          

[rsballer10]

28 minutes ago, wagolfer7 said:

I think I have good general understanding of pressure and GFR.  At least as good as one can be without using the tech daily and analyzing thousands of swings.    

 

I think in the beginning it hurt me.  Trying to artificially create pressure and GFR can be a bad thing, at least it was for me.  Just like anything else in golf - doing 1 thing better or correctly is not always going to end up in positive results.  Especially if you do something else incorrectly to get the result that your working on.  Looking back, I think I was so focused on pressure and GFR, that even though I was increasing pressure and feeling the right movements....I never got my COM moving forward enough.  Separating pressure in my lead side and COM was something I completely missed.  You can get lead side pressure, but your COM stays back. 

 

In the end it is now paying dividends, as I'm hitting the ball further.  But I think it's just like anything else in golf.  Knowing and being able to apply it, are 2 totally different things.  And if you can't apply it, you might not know it as well as you think.          

My experience has been similar. Improving shift and sequencing with my driver has made my long game exponentially better. Some distance, but wayy more accurate and more efficient delivery with the driver. The downside is that I can accidentally step on short irons now - something that I used to never have to worry about. I've now resorted to lots of 3/4 follow throughs on the short irons to control distance better. Seems to be working, until I randomly nuke one again.

[txbadger]

I believe the GRF concept is fairly easy to understand but without some way of being able to measure pressure trace and all that, I think it has limited value or at least has limits depending on where you are in your golf swing journey as some have mentioned it has helped them even without being on plates/etc.    So, to be fair I can only speak to my own experience so here it is...

 

First of all, I had heard the basics such as...

 - you need to get pressure shifted back to your lead side earlier than you think (just after P2)

 - before you start downswing, majority of pressure is at lead side

 

There are more commonly thrown around GRF nuggets but these two I think are pretty essential to using GRF to max potential. 

 

Anyway.... I had practiced with that in mind for quite some time and thought I was doing pretty well... until I was able to measure it.      I was able to try Bal.On inserts and in true "feel ain't real" fashion, I found out that I was nowhere close to where I thought I was.   In fact I actually found out I was starting my backswing with a little shift to the lead side with pressure... never would have thought that.    I picked up a pair of inserts and after a few weeks I was able to improve my pivot quite a bit.   As a result some of the faults I had been working on improved as well.    

 

It's not new ground but for me the moral of the story is that you need to verify what you think you are doing.   That could be a qualified instructor or pressure inserts/plates (if you know how to interpret what they are telling you). 

 

[ferrispgm]

I try to pay attention to it every time I practice.  My best ball striking rounds are when I'm shifting pressure the best and don't have to think about it.  I still struggle with it on driver though.  It feels like it takes me forever to get left and when I do it earlier, I feel like I have no room to swing and I freak out and leave the face open.

 

My goal in the next year is to get the sensor edge plates that seem pretty solid portable option for the price.

[johnrobison]

3 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Do you study traces so you have an understanding of how to move

Yes. And I have shoe inserts to study trace as well.

3 hours ago, getitdaily said:

and has that helped you improve? 

Yes. Path shallower. Low point better.

[dpc]

I wish I could study GRF.  I too like many have worked on getting left early, but I fear that I'm moving everything left early.  If I could get on plates I'm certain that I could fiddle around with feel and get my pressure forward without dragging my upper body along, and without artificially dumping my shoulders right.  There's a happy medium that should be easier to find with instant feedback.

[virtuoso]

6 minutes ago, dpc said:

I wish I could study GRF.  I too like many have worked on getting left early, but I fear that I'm moving everything left early.  If I could get on plates I'm certain that I could fiddle around with feel and get my pressure forward without dragging my upper body along, and without artificially dumping my shoulders right.  There's a happy medium that should be easier to find with instant feedback.

All good players move everything left and then dump their shoulders right. This is covered in the infamous (but controversial) video series: Legends of the Fall.

[dpc]

25 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

All good players move everything left and then dump their shoulders right. This is covered in the infamous (but controversial) video series: Legends of the Fall.

Link?

[virtuoso]

13 minutes ago, dpc said:

Link?

I'll PM it to you. Don't show anyone else.

[dpc]

Just now, virtuoso said:

I'll PM it to you. Don't show anyone else.

👍

[Valtiel]

4 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Yes, but I'm interested in how many of us avg joes actually look at that stuff and try to use it without the benefit of plates...

As a means of understanding the broad and very important concept of "when" in the swing, absolutely. It's pretty straightforward to show someone a video that shows when pros shift and how that likely differs significantly from the person that struggles with sequencing. 

Actually having plates to measure the individual attempting to improve would definitely be preferable should they struggle with the actual implementation of the concept, but no one can argue that seeing it and understanding it on paper isn't a net benefit. 

[airjammer]

5 hours ago, getitdaily said:

More and more youtube channels are showing grf traces...TPI, GRF golf, etc.

 

Do you study traces so you have an understanding of how to move and has that helped you improve? 

Improve speed absolutely yes…improve accuracy not really. 

[Valtiel]

2 hours ago, airjammer said:

Improve speed absolutely yes…improve accuracy not really. 

Correcting sequencing via improving the timing of pressure shifting absolutely can and regularly does improve accuracy because to do this correctly is to better enable correct pelvic rotation which in turn reduces problems like early extension and the compensations therein that cause inconsistency. If you already sequence correctly (which most don't) then improving GRF is mostly a speed thing. But if you don't then you stand to gain a lot in both speed AND consistency. 

Edited July 31 by Valtiel

[virtuoso]

1 hour ago, airjammer said:

Improve speed absolutely yes…improve accuracy not really. 

You have to link the hand path radius to the foot pressures to get the accuracy part, so GRF's alone are incomplete.

[sundaypins]

2 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

You have to link the hand path radius to the foot pressures to get the accuracy part, so GRF's alone are incomplete.

 

What's wrong with you?

 

 

 

[virtuoso]

19 minutes ago, sundaypins said:

 

What's wrong with you?

 

 

 

All of it.

[airjammer]

49 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

You have to link the hand path radius to the foot pressures to get the accuracy part, so GRF's alone are incomplete.

Care to expand on that comment further, like an example? 
 

Far as radius in general my right arm collapses too much in transition as I increase speed. 

[BSI99]

I found that improving my swing improved my GRFs from my view. But no I have never gotten it measured and probably never will, don't really care that much. 

[bladehunter]

7 hours ago, getitdaily said:

Yes, but I'm interested in how many of us avg joes actually look at that stuff and try to use it without the benefit of plates...

I can’t find a good driver fitting.  🤣. So what do you think?  I’ve never seen a ground force plate.  Wouldnt know one if it walked up. I’m sure it’s good info. But really. I wouldn’t know where to look for one. 
 

( just jerking your chain man ). 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Valtiel said:

Correcting sequencing via improving the timing of pressure shifting absolutely can and regularly does improve accuracy because to do this correctly is to better enable correct pelvic rotation which in turn reduces problems like early extension the compensations therein that cause inconsistency.

 

Improving GRF can absolutely, as you say, improve accuracy. Pivot stalls show up on plates, for example, and are often disastrous for accuracy.

 

People who admit they know nothing about how the golf swing works and never will should post more questions or read more, not post their crackpot theories based on three points of anecdata or what they hope is true.

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, airjammer said:

Care to expand on that comment further, like an example? 
 

Far as radius in general my right arm collapses too much in transition as I increase speed. 

He's saying what i'm saying....sequencing. When and where your pressure is moving in relation to your hand/arm swing. You can spike the **** out of a ground force plate like a competitive LD and still be out of sequence, but get your pressure in the right places at the right time (relative to your hand/arm swing) and you stand a far better chance at rotating correctly and getting your low point where it needs to be, both of which reduce compensations and increase consistency/accuracy/efficiency. 

Edited July 31 by Valtiel

[rsballer10]

34 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

You can spike the **** out of a ground force plate like competitive LD and still be out of sequence, but get your pressure in the right places at the right time (relative to your hand/arm swing) you stand a far better chance at rotating correctly

I resemble that remark 🤣

 

No way to tell for sure because I don't currently have access to force plates. But just the act of gaining an understanding of where pressure needs to go and when has improved my golf swing. But your comment rings true, even doing it somewhat poorly I still hit better shots now. 

 

Results may vary, I have/had a really bad case of 'swing in a barrel'

[Valtiel]

7 minutes ago, rsballer10 said:

even doing it somewhat poorly I still hit better shots now. 

This is definitely me these days being a new dad, and was definitely me last week lol. I played like absolute dog**** by my standards while reminding myself that I hit several REALLY good shots that were purely a product of better pressure sequencing. Even the shots that feel borderline and feel yucky still produce way better results on average. I flagged a 6i from 195y with *zero* curve after hitting a drive OB left because i'm an idiot, and even though that 6i swing didn't actually feel that great, I saved par because of it. For me it's definitely a "less curvature on bad swings" kind of improvement that even during bad rounds keeps the confidence up because I know there is an anchor in there that will keep bogeys from becoming doubles. 

This is long term improvement btw, and it was based *purely* on gaining the understanding of sequencing on paper fomr a ground force/pressure trace standpoint. It took a lot of practice to correct of course after spending a lifetime as a junior golfer doing it wrong, but now it's something that I can count on even if I don't touch a club for 6+ months. My drive suffers from the layoff, but my irons don't. 

[RayPlan]

11 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

It took a lot of practice to correct of course after spending a lifetime as a junior golfer doing it wrong, but now it's something that I can count on even if I don't touch a club for 6+ months.

You heard it here first, folks, Valtiel has spent a lifetime as a junior golfer! I knew something was fishy, but he's now confirmed that he's some kind of perpetual child prodigy!

[Valtiel]

23 minutes ago, RayPlan said:

You heard it here first, folks, Valtiel has spent a lifetime as a junior golfer! I knew something was fishy, but he's now confirmed that he's some kind of perpetual child prodigy!

Hey you're a dad, you KNOW what 25-30y ago feels like these days...

[virtuoso]

2 hours ago, airjammer said:

Care to expand on that comment further, like an example? 
 

Far as radius in general my right arm collapses too much in transition as I increase speed. 

From the secret archives: if you feel like you push down on your hand path at p1.5, you will feel it in your right foot--foot gets heavier...if not, your pelvis is in the wrong spot.

 

That's all you get. ha ha