Clubmakers and handicaps....

Grum · June 8, 2008

odd question, i know.

Building clubs, tweaking, repairing, etc is something that I really enjoy. its something I enjoy so much that at somepoint, I wouldn't mind trying to get a job somewhere doing it. I realise there are classes and certification, etc aswell as experience that is required, I have no issue with that. The issue I have is that realistically, I'm never going to be able to play to the standard I can go pro and get into it that way. I'm curious to know if there are many club builders out that make a living in the business without being a pro, and if you're one of them, what do you play off and do you think it is of any relevance?

Thanks ;)

bigstunnerdude · June 8, 2008

I think if you have a solid understanding of the mechanical and engineering principles behind Golf Clubs and their properties and how changes to components will effect the end product then you should have no problem. If you play the game and have a solid idea of how changing things in or on the club can help a golfer change something about their typical shot pattern again you should have no problem.

I'm a 16 handicap Golfer and have been working as a Pro-Shop Assitant for 2 years now. I do a lot of club repairs and have no recognised PGA or Clubfitting Qualifications, only carry a certificate to show I've done Ping's Custom Fitting Course. What I am is a fully served Engineering Apprentice and alot of what you do with clubs is basic engineering at best. Limited Workshop skills is all thats really required for adjusting clubs. As I say the hardest part is being sure you understand what effects the tweaks or changes you make will have.

I'm pretty sure a number of years ago Karsten Solheim was in the same position as you and look how that worked out for him in time.

Grum · June 8, 2008

Practical skills aren't an issue really, i've done all the every day things. I've even bent a couple of hybrids and a couple of FW's recently. I have a pretty good understanding of the effects of adjustments. I have dabbled in clubfitting with my friends. Sat down one night in the club, and over a few pints we came up with a(drunken, but sound) plan of action for his irons, wedges and his putter. A couple of hours the next morning hitting balls and back and forth from the bending machine we had his irons and wedges set up and ready to go. Had the pleasure of watching him shoot a smooth 68 that afternoon in the medal for a career low. Gives you an awesome feeling knowing your work had something to do with that.

Clubtuner · June 8, 2008

I for one do not think that you need to be a pro anything provided you have good mechanical skills.

If you can surround yourself with some knowledgable individuals and, or make some connections with

someone with a good reputation and learn from them you should be OK.

I carry about a 10 handicap, (although I feel as though I couldn't break 100 right now)

I have spent a number of years in a different industry, but I have excellent mechanical, problem solving skills because of my background. Therefore it made it quite easy for me to move over to something I love to do. I should also let you know that I worked for a reputable golf retailer, and was an assistant for 5 years prior to starting my own business, but made a lot of quality connections through those years.

The only problem I have now is TIME, I don't have any. Running the shop is full time, plus I do a lot of fittings for Cobra and Titleist, as well as my own private fittings. That makes for a full schedule, especially during this time of season. Now add that I have a 4 year old at home and now you know why I never have time to play anymore.

It is very rewarding to see some of the people that you do work for go and play exceptionally well and win tournaments , etc. I kind of feel that is my role now, not so much for me top play well, but to help others

play well. I now have a few guys on tour that I have done work for over the years, and it feels pretty good to see there success.

I hope this answers some of your questions, and concerns.

JCAG · June 8, 2008

Me..a 10.6 index.

Once belonged to a club where another fulltime clubmaker also belonged. He was a terrible golfer. Many asked me how can he do what he does and play so bad. I just shrugged my shoulders and took the business.

An aside but not related to his playing ability, he was a hack clubmaker.

A good clubmaker that does not even play is not an issue.

Fitting is another issue. I maintain a good fitter has to have a practical understanding of the swing that only a player can/does have.

K2_2 · June 9, 2008

If you like working on clubs and can master it, I wouldn't care what your handicap was. Put another way, let me answer your question with a question.

Who would you rather have building your next set: Tiger Woods, world #1 player, or someone like Don White (MacGregor), Joe Kwok, or Carlton from Chikara? Now the really difficult part will be coming up with a cool logo like Joe or Carlton - good luck with that bit, and have fun with whatever level of club building that you continue on to!

scotgolfer1977 · June 9, 2008

Hey!

Couldn't agree more with bigstunnerdude my friends!

Most PGA Head Professionals do not have the time or the inclination to do most of the repair work that comes into their fine emporiums!

I have lived and breathed the Golf Industry since the age of 4 (My family have all been involved in the game for a long time, some famous, most just hard workers like us all!) Have done repairs for years (Hell i even started regripping when i was about 12! Always loved the smell of white spirit!) :clapping: I think it really is a case of basic engineering for the most part.

Repair work, clubfitting, club building can sometimes be just too time costly for guys that make a very good living at teaching! I have worked for the same Head Pro for over 6 years now and quite frankly he leaves all the repair work for me. I enjoy it! Generally what you tend to find, unless that particular professional has a passion for these aspects, or has a reputation for fine, quality work. It is the assistants (whether qualified or not) who tend to do the work needed.

If they are going through their PGA training (which I am at the ripe old age of 300!) it is not only experience for their qualifications it is also extra cash, moula, spondoolicks (call it whatever!!?) for their back pockets! And trust me!! you need that extra cash!

So my friend i say go for it! Get yourself a job in a shop, work hard and ask the guy or gal you are working for "Hey boss! How do i regrip a club?, how do I grind a wedge? How do i pull a shaft? How do I do a blind bore?"

Trust me! If you ask enough they will get fed up and just show you!

Job done. 5 years later you will find yourself in a tour van as a technician.

10 years later you will be selling your own clubs to the market at large.

20 years later you will be lying on a beach, earning 20 percent!!!

Go for it!!!

Dyno · June 9, 2008

Lots of good clubmakers suck at golf. Lots of bad clubmakers are real good at golf.

To problem solve, you do need alittle ability with the club but I can attest you don't need much :clapping:

Really it comes down to how analytical you are. If you can break down problems into definable pieces, you will be fine.

Just be aware there's not a ton of money in the biz in general. There's some things you can't put a price on though.

thewitt · June 9, 2008

Be sure you ask the guys "making a living" as a golf club jockey how many of them rely on their wive's income to pay the mortgage, grocery and heat bills and provide medical insurance...

The number of people actually making a living building or repairing golf clubs is very small relative to the number of guys who have a hobby-for-profit playing around with golf clubs...

I would have a hard time leaving the business at this point, but it's not because I'm getting rich at it...

-t

joey3108 · June 10, 2008

You don't need to be a good golfer to understand a golf club on the technical side of it, but to be a complete fitter who understand the swing mechanics to marry it with the right set up golf club, You will need some what good enough to relate when you talk to your customers...especially on a pro level.

In addition, You have to be good at what to say and not to say...this game full of mental aspect of it. :clapping:

One thing for sure, the one that is good at it didn't come over night! Lots of flying time under their belt.

Keep your good one, you'll spend less at the end of the day. I've seen to many trying to be cheap and end up spending more due to how screwed up they've end up with.

Just my opinions!

Joe

handmadeaddicted · June 10, 2008

Joe would be playing to a plus 23 handicap and challenging tiger on a daily basis by the logic that you have to be good to be a good club maker.

thewitt · June 10, 2008

I think it's paramount to take your game seriously to be a good fitter, but I'm not sure you have to have a single digit handicap.

Serious students of the game can understand the golf swing, understand the nature of the interactions between golfer and golf clubs, and still not shoot in the 70s.

I have a hard time with the guys who play once in a blue moon and don't take their game seriously, then use hardware with digital readouts to fit a player into a set of clubs. There is much more to fitting that watching a video screen and making a recommendation on spin rate and launch angle...

If your goal is to put a player into clubs that will allow HIM to score lower, you should be able to understand what aspects of his game you can help him improve with equipment changes - which may or may not mean a new driver...

-t

Clubtuner · June 10, 2008

Totally agree that you need to have an understanding of the golf swing, not just the computers and toys as reference.

As Joe said, there is soooooo much flying time under your belt so you are able to understand, cause and effect with ball flight, etc.

joey3108 · June 10, 2008

Remember one thing, Golf club are static and Golf swing is dynamic...The more consistent our swing is the easier we can find the problem. What i'm saying here is that there are limit you can do with golf club and no limit of how good or how bad you can do with your swing. Bare in mind, a Feel players is a tough one to relate...these guys need a club makers/fitter that some what is a junkies who've tested a lot of equipments and some what good enough to do all that testing, not to mention the money and time they have to spend to do all that.

So for an average joe, our job is harder to find that FAIR spot to give the best result on fitting. Not to mention that most fitter are base on the ideal number that the LM company gave them or base on Tour players and tour course ideal condition. We average joe hardly play like them nor their course condition. Plus certain region on the country will totally give a differrent result too. Basically so many variation and factors need to be calculate to get the best result. Base on your fitter expertise and experiences, it will be different result...not to mention if maybe they are having a certain agenda to push a certain products in his stock to just make a sell. Here in the bay are if I gave you 14* LA at 100MP SS, you ball will end up no where...especially on a windy day.

Back to the topic again, I do believe somewhat they have to be that good in all areas if they want to reach a certain level. Not to mention a skill to handle a PITA customers :clapping: So a bad fit club a lot of times doesn't not come from a fitter...It's from the customer it self. :)

Edit:

I forgot to mentioned, just be careful when you came in the shop with all those fancy machines...Those machine only usefull with the right operators, so at the end of the day is the operator whom you are gonna rely on.