PGCC or PGM

[progolf4life]

I am currently a senior in HS and graduate in a couple of months. I am currently looking at either attending the NC Myrtle Beach PGCC or a state school with a PGM accredited program. I don't have the grades to get into Penn State (3.2GPA and average ACT score) or any school like that. My goal is to become a head pro, the only other thing I would like to even think about doing is to become a Club Designer/Sales Rep. I'm not going to stray off of my main goal if I don't have to.

 

I like the fact that PGCC I'd be able to play 7 days a week and work at getting better in order to pass my PAT. I'd also work with a professional instructor at least once a week which would be a bonus. They also have a placement program which puts you in your desired job and can even set you up with club deals/contracts. The only downfall is that they are not associated with the PGA...but what benefits would that bring me? They said this program could be completed in under a year and a half.

 

The PGM program is a four year program and I've heard it runs relatively slow. I wouldn't be able to play golf at a state school as of now because my scores aren't quite that good. So I feel I wouldn't get enough practice time in order to pass the PATs. I will be graduating at the age of 17 so I'm relatively young.

 

Would you get paid more for going through a PGM program rather than a PGCC program?

 

Any opinions would be helpful and this is going to be a pretty quick decision that I have to make. I'd like to get the degree and not have to go back to college if at all possible but I NEED a decent salary and would like to live 'comfortably'.

 

Opinions?

[steverum]

PGCC is good in the short term, but PGA is the way to go for the long haul.

 

It would not be a bad idea to do PGCC and get a job and then start the PGA Program once you have an established job.

 

I would not recommend going to a 4 year school for a normal degree and then start the PGA Program. That is what I did, and frankly the PGA does not give someone with a business degree enough credits in the Apprentice Program.

 

I would say that in most cases your better courses (private) are only looking for PGA Members. Your public courses and resorts are much more open to the PGCC Program. So you might want to consider that.

[DRGJR72]

Use the golfwrx search thingy for PGCC and there will be a myriad of topics on here about PGCC vs. PGM.

 

In a nutshell:

 

1. PGM will give you a 4 year degree that you can use if you opt out of the industry. PGCC gives you a two year associates degree (mine was unaccredited at the time so not transferable) that will not do much for you if you opt to leave the golf industry (i.e. I am back in school finishing my degree)

2. PGCC is shorter (16 months to 2 years) and you can work on your PGA requirements in a similar manner, maybe even faster. There were guys in my class that took their PAT while they were in school and starting on their apprentice aspect of the PGA program. PGM is 3-5 years depending on your class load in college.

3. PGCC allowed me to play a large amount of golf, foster amazing connections/relationships with people in the business, hands on experience pertaining to specific areas of the golf industry (ex. Techniques of teaching class), access to excellent instruction, class out by 12:30, etc. I am not sure how the PGM program is with regard to that, but I do know that it is similar to a regular college schedule. Maybe someone can chime in on the playing, practicing, and lesson aspect of it.

 

Ultimately do your research and see which is a better fit for you. I too thought I would be in the golf industry forever, but it did not work out like that and I am back in school trying to get my ticket to get back into the race. The golf industry is a difficult and demanding career, but can reward those who are good at what they do, and in the right place at the right time.

 

Good luck with whatever you decide and feel free to PM me with any questions you may have.

 

Dan

[banderson22]

I am a first year PGM student at the University of Maryland Eastern Shore and have to agree with the person above me about this being the way to go.

 

With a PGM degree, you not only have certification and memebership to the PGA, but you are also getting a business degree. Anyone can be a head pro, but PGM graduates can also bring those business and management skills to the table, which looks better on a resume than say someone who just has a basic understanding of the game of golf.

 

Most courses in our area let us play for free (walking) and you can play every day like you had said. We have had several companies offer us personal use discounts on equiptment, and that's another up-side.

 

I couldn't be happier with my decision to enroll in a PGM program and wish you the best of luck.

[iteachgolf]

I am currently a senior in HS and graduate in a couple of months. I am currently looking at either attending the NC Myrtle Beach PGCC or a state school with a PGM accredited program. I don't have the grades to get into Penn State (3.2GPA and average ACT score) or any school like that. My goal is to become a head pro, the only other thing I would like to even think about doing is to become a Club Designer/Sales Rep. I'm not going to stray off of my main goal if I don't have to.

 

I like the fact that PGCC I'd be able to play 7 days a week and work at getting better in order to pass my PAT. I'd also work with a professional instructor at least once a week which would be a bonus. They also have a placement program which puts you in your desired job and can even set you up with club deals/contracts. The only downfall is that they are not associated with the PGA...but what benefits would that bring me? They said this program could be completed in under a year and a half.

 

The PGM program is a four year program and I've heard it runs relatively slow. I wouldn't be able to play golf at a state school as of now because my scores aren't quite that good. So I feel I wouldn't get enough practice time in order to pass the PATs. I will be graduating at the age of 17 so I'm relatively young.

 

Would you get paid more for going through a PGM program rather than a PGCC program?

 

Any opinions would be helpful and this is going to be a pretty quick decision that I have to make. I'd like to get the degree and not have to go back to college if at all possible but I NEED a decent salary and would like to live 'comfortably'.

 

Opinions?

 

Like I said you will honestly start at about the same pay scale and I personally believe the extra 2-3 years work experience would be valued more than someone coming right out of a PGM program. You can go to PGCC and become a PGA member in less time than the PGM guys if you work hard and couple that with the extra work experience you'd be ahead in my book. Once you are a PGA member in the golf industry it won't matter how you did it. They will look at work experience and skills so whoever said long term the PGM is better I'd disagree as long as you don't leave the golf industry.

[Hack84]

so

[Jaylasvegas]

Why not take a job at a course since you cant get into the program at 17 anyhow, see if you still want to be in the golf business after working in it for awhile.

[herbygolf21]

Do yourself a huge favor and skip the PGCC experience. I did not go to PGCC, so this opinion is not based on experience, but look into some golf jobs. If you have a friend who has access to the PGA Jobfinder, have him/her look for some jobs at some of the top courses around. You will soon find that a lot of TPC courses are requiring a bachelor's degree to become a head professional. The PGCC is only good to get your foot in the door. The skills you learn there are not as valuable as the skills you would learn in 1 year on the job as an apprentice.

 

For example. I used to work at a very high volume club shop in Tucson. We had a couple of employees (1 from PGCC and the other from SDGA). They were both in the second year of their respective programs and the knowledge they had of club repair was ridiculous! YOu could have learned what they knew from reading a golfsmith clubmaker's catalog. I do not mean to trash either of those schools because they do work for some people. I just think in the long run (which truly is what matters) you will be better served by going to a 4 year school and getting a business degree. ASU offers this program and there are hundreds of golf courses in the area where you could work on the weekends so you could get the experience while going to school. Just my thoughts on the topic. Good luck in whatever decision you make. And remember one thing, KEEP GOLF FUN!! Do not turn your passion into something you loath getting up and going to.

[Jaylasvegas]

I see alot of threads on here about getting into a PGM Program or SDGA or PGCC, hopefully those posters understand you can get into the PGA program and become an Apprentice by working under a Class A professional and working in the golf business, you can do the program at your own pace, because they give you 2 years per level, and your also working and getting experience that the classroom atmosphere cant touch. not to mention make money.

I would hire someone that took this route almost every time over the student who went through those other programs

[cpyne]

I'd try getting into a PGM program somewhere, you're young enough where you should be able to graduate with that PGM and a Business degree by the time you're like 22. And if you decide not to continue in the golf industry you've still got that business degree. If you go to PGCC and then decide that its not for you, you'll be starting college at 20 or 21. But it's your choice. Lots of golf either way....

[DRGJR72]

I'd try getting into a PGM program somewhere, you're young enough where you should be able to graduate with that PGM and a Business degree by the time you're like 22. And if you decide not to continue in the golf industry you've still got that business degree. If you go to PGCC and then decide that its not for you, you'll be starting college at 20 or 21. But it's your choice. Lots of golf either way....

 

I went to PGCC, decided to leave the industry after 14 years and am finishing college at 37. I still recommend to do whatever works best for the individual. But if there is anyone that is a posterboy for going to a traditional college so you don't have to go back to school to get your degree if you decide the golf industry is not for you any longer, that would be me..... :beruo:

[progolf4life]

I've worked at a golf course the past two years and have a pretty good idea on how things are run at that course. How often do you get to play while in a PGM program?

 

The PGCC sounded like a good idea but w/places requiring degrees it seems the PGM program might be the better way to go.

 

Edit:

 

I've been looking at the schools that are accredited and it seems that Ferris State is probably my best bet and I wouldn't mind going there. I already have a good enough cumulative and ACT score but I've found another situation which would need to be addressed for just about any of these schools. I don't have a legit handicap and at Ferris state it requires you to be an 8 or less. I could get my handicap down that low within a few months of this upcoming season but that would mean I couldn't start this year.

 

What in YOUR opinion would be the best route to go. I'd like to go full bore at this and so the PGM looks more promising. Should I just wait to enroll and work on getting a legit handicap this year as well as getting it down as low as possible?

 

Edit 2:

I've thought of a couple more things.

 

1) The weather in MI is COLD for the most part. How often would you actually get to play and what about in the winter? This is a big concern to me but since I grew up in MI I would love to go back into the state. At places like NC you'd be able to play year round for the most part (but I can't get into that school).

 

2) I could come in to Ferris state after the first or second semester and work on getting my USGA handicap down to an 8 in the meantime with the help of my local Pro at the course I work at.

 

Opinions?

[Jaylasvegas]

Biggest question is

 

What do you want to do in this business?

[dat dude]

i went to saint peters college and ended up transfering back to community college becuse i hated saint peters college. i got such a hard on for pgcc it was not even funny...1 year later i cant believe i was so stupid. i stayed at home for a year to save money so i could go down to hilton head island, but i started questioning my decision and then i started calling courses and asking them about the pgcc and they all said the same thing. it will get you a job, but not one that you would want. i called oakmont, augusta, torey pines, and atlanta athletic club those were my sources. you can go with what you feel is right. all i know is i wasted a year of school to do nothing. it helped me in a way that i appreciate school more. working full time is cool, but it never ends and you dont get breaks. pm me for more. to answer your question you take classes from 8-12 or 1 and then you go play golf. either way you cant loose. its school though...its all about work.

[iteachgolf]

You don't come out of a college PGM school and get a job at Augusta or Oakmont either. Once you're a PGA member nobody ask how you got there. At the pointe where you'd be considered for the job at places such as those your experience would matter way more than where you went to school.

[progolf4life]

Opinions keep varying here... If I can't start PGCC at the age of 17 then I'd rather not wait. I won't be able to get into Ferris the first year either though, but I will be able to go to a college where I live for a year while I get my handicap down. Once that's done I can transfer my credits towards the business degree and other GEC class credits for Ferris.

 

I would like to become a head teaching pro as my main goal.

[fridsdotcom]

Opinions keep varying here... If I can't start PGCC at the age of 17 then I'd rather not wait. I won't be able to get into Ferris the first year either though, but I will be able to go to a college where I live for a year while I get my handicap down. Once that's done I can transfer my credits towards the business degree and other GEC class credits for Ferris.

 

I would like to become a head teaching pro as my main goal.

 

 

Do some research on this one bud...if I remember correctly, the PGM program is a little different then your typical degree when trying to transfer credits. I graduated from a PGM accredited university about 6 years ago. When I was in school, you had to start the program as a freshman...you couldn't do a year or two at a community college and transfer in. I feel like that policy was pretty universal as well (all PGM programs), but I could certainly be wrong. I wouldn't worry about the PAT too much. It's obviously important as you have to pass it to become a PGA member, but I believe you have a lot of time to get it done. When I started the GPTP (Golf Professional Trainging Program...that's what the PGA called it back then) you had to pass the PAT before you started anything. Now, you just have to pass it before you complete Level III. Depending on how quickly you move through the program, you're looking at three years. As long as you don't go to school and trade in your clubs for beer money, you'll be fine. PM me if you have any other specific questions that I could help with. Good luck.

 

Just noticed that you said you has aspirations to become a teaching professional. One of my good friends (and classmates) had the same goal and did internships with Jim Mclean at Doral, Doc Suttie up in Chicago, and the Academy at the Pinehurst Resort. I'm not trying to trash the PGCC or SDGA in anyway (and I realize the PGM program takes more time)...but I think there are very few PGCC grads that come out with work experience like that. Just my .02

[lhsgolfer2]

PGM is a better investment. You get help with all your books, take specific classes related to the industry, get to do 4 internships at some really nice facilities, and get a degree. A degree is important in todays environment, it will only help you. Just be careful when researching schools on what degree is offered with the PGM program, i belive ASU is Agribusiness, Clemson is Liesure Studies, Ferris is Business, and Methodist is Business/Marketing/Accounting.

 

In addition, you will play plenty of golf being a PGM student, once you get your PGA affiliation card you can play most courses for free or just a cart fee, and a lot of schools have specific practice facilities just for PGM students. Either schedule your classes early and play late or late and play early.

 

Somebody else said it correctly about the PAT if you go to a PGM school, you get 8 years to pass it after you enroll, so you could theoretically pass all 3 checkpoints and then work as an apprentice until you pass.

 

But, if being a head pro is all your after, 25000 of the 28000 members got their Class A status by working under a PGA member and completing the program on their own. To each their own i guess.

 

 

mike

[Jaylasvegas]

Opinions keep varying here... If I can't start PGCC at the age of 17 then I'd rather not wait. I won't be able to get into Ferris the first year either though, but I will be able to go to a college where I live for a year while I get my handicap down. Once that's done I can transfer my credits towards the business degree and other GEC class credits for Ferris.

 

I would like to become a head teaching pro as my main goal.

 

 

Do some research on this one bud...if I remember correctly, the PGM program is a little different then your typical degree when trying to transfer credits. I graduated from a PGM accredited university about 6 years ago. When I was in school, you had to start the program as a freshman...you couldn't do a year or two at a community college and transfer in. I feel like that policy was pretty universal as well (all PGM programs), but I could certainly be wrong. I wouldn't worry about the PAT too much. It's obviously important as you have to pass it to become a PGA member, but I believe you have a lot of time to get it done. When I started the GPTP (Golf Professional Trainging Program...that's what the PGA called it back then) you had to pass the PAT before you started anything. Now, you just have to pass it before you complete Level III. Depending on how quickly you move through the program, you're looking at three years. As long as you don't go to school and trade in your clubs for beer money, you'll be fine. PM me if you have any other specific questions that I could help with. Good luck.

 

Just noticed that you said you has aspirations to become a teaching professional. One of my good friends (and classmates) had the same goal and did internships with Jim Mclean at Doral, Doc Suttie up in Chicago, and the Academy at the Pinehurst Resort. I'm not trying to trash the PGCC or SDGA in anyway (and I realize the PGM program takes more time)...but I think there are very few PGCC grads that come out with work experience like that. Just my .02

They changed the PAT, you must pass it or try 2x and fail it, then before sending in your money for your level one books and starting the Apprentice program

but at some point you must pass it before getting to level 3

[progolf4life]

If I'm going to go to Ferris then it looks like I'll need to have applied by June. This still gives me some time. I'm going to talk to my golf coach and head pro about signing the handicap verification and then I'll be able to go there next year if I'm accepted. I meet all the other requirements as well. The only downfall to Ferris would be the lack of play because of weather.

[irishfight4it]

You don't come out of a college PGM school and get a job at Augusta or Oakmont either. Once you're a PGA member nobody ask how you got there. At the pointe where you'd be considered for the job at places such as those your experience would matter way more than where you went to school.

 

 

That is actually not true. I am in school with a senior now who is a head professional for next summer which would be his final internship. I also have had friends that became assistants at Oakmont and other prestigious clubs the summer of their senior year.

[iteachgolf]

You don't come out of a college PGM school and get a job at Augusta or Oakmont either. Once you're a PGA member nobody ask how you got there. At the pointe where you'd be considered for the job at places such as those your experience would matter way more than where you went to school.

 

 

That is actually not true. I am in school with a senior now who is a head professional for next summer which would be his final internship. I also have had friends that became assistants at Oakmont and other prestigious clubs the summer of their senior year.

And I got a job at tpc sawgrass. You get the job not your degree. The interview is what wins not the resume and I can assure you my resume would get me an interview.

[Jaylasvegas]

You don't come out of a college PGM school and get a job at Augusta or Oakmont either. Once you're a PGA member nobody ask how you got there. At the pointe where you'd be considered for the job at places such as those your experience would matter way more than where you went to school.

 

 

That is actually not true. I am in school with a senior now who is a head professional for next summer which would be his final internship. I also have had friends that became assistants at Oakmont and other prestigious clubs the summer of their senior year.

What kinda course would have a Student as a Head Professional?

[DRGJR72]

You don't come out of a college PGM school and get a job at Augusta or Oakmont either. Once you're a PGA member nobody ask how you got there. At the pointe where you'd be considered for the job at places such as those your experience would matter way more than where you went to school.

 

 

That is actually not true. I am in school with a senior now who is a head professional for next summer which would be his final internship. I also have had friends that became assistants at Oakmont and other prestigious clubs the summer of their senior year.

What kinda course would have a Student as a Head Professional?

 

One that was trying to save money or did not care about their business very much. No offense but there are very few 21-23 year old young men that could be successful as a Head Professional, IMO. There are always exceptions to the rule, but I would highly doubt any high end or exclusive private track will be hiring a graduating senior from a PGM school to be their HP, even if they have one or two summer internship at a nice track.......just a thought.

[Jaylasvegas]

You don't come out of a college PGM school and get a job at Augusta or Oakmont either. Once you're a PGA member nobody ask how you got there. At the pointe where you'd be considered for the job at places such as those your experience would matter way more than where you went to school.

 

 

That is actually not true. I am in school with a senior now who is a head professional for next summer which would be his final internship. I also have had friends that became assistants at Oakmont and other prestigious clubs the summer of their senior year.

What kinda course would have a Student as a Head Professional?

 

One that was trying to save money or did not care about their business very much. No offense but there are very few 21-23 year old young men that could be successful as a Head Professional, IMO. There are always exceptions to the rule, but I would highly doubt any high end or exclusive private track will be hiring a graduating senior from a PGM school to be their HP, even if they have one or two summer internship at a nice track.......just a thought.

I agree, there are way to many variables in the business that it would take a few years of work experience to grasp just the normal day to day operations.

It also should be mentioned that someone working an internship at a course and someone that is a full time employee are completely different

[irishfight4it]

I agree with everything said, but it is tough to explain if you arent actually in the situation. Good PGM students are highly qualified through their degrees and work experience because many clubs don't treat interns as interns. Also, the final internship is 7 months long, and it often isnt an internship, the individual is frequently hired as an assistant, not just an intern

[Jaylasvegas]

I agree with everything said, but it is tough to explain if you arent actually in the situation. Good PGM students are highly qualified through their degrees and work experience because many clubs don't treat interns as interns. Also, the final internship is 7 months long, and it often isnt an internship, the individual is frequently hired as an assistant, not just an intern

I know that both myself and Iteach are in the situation as we are both in the business

Depending on the property many will have the interns work the bad shift, or will not hire them at all because it cost's us money to invest in an employee, and its not a smart move if its a temp gig for them. I guess I cant understand why someone would want to pay so much money to go thru a PGM course instead of just doing it on there own while working in the industry. Money in this business is never very good, so why spend triple the amount going thru that program when you can do it on your own for around 9K

[irishfight4it]

because you have the business degree if you want to leave the industry for better money. or to move up into a GM position, maybe run a resort, start a teaching business, etc.

[Jaylasvegas]

because you have the business degree if you want to leave the industry for better money. or to move up into a GM position, maybe run a resort, start a teaching business, etc.

Its a bachelors which today can be had online for cheap.

every position you mention is a part of the PGA program, you choose the path and classification you want to take.

[progolf4life]

Going to a college is a must for me...I don't think my parents would have it any other way. The PGCC was an option but you guys said that wasn't the best way to go..