Larger Driver Heads Less Forgiving ?

[RRFireblade]

Or I might just be nuts . . .

So here's my thought . . .

I put together 2 smaller headed drivers , a 400 and a 325 and yeah , I killing them both like you would not believe. I feel like I have far more forgiviness over dispersion than with any of the 460's I have hit in the same sessions.

So I'm thinking about it and had a thought , if the squareness (face) of the club is levered down the spine of the shaft and the larger headed clubs put thier center/sweetspot farther from that lever , then any deviation from square is magnified by that distance.

What I'm saying is the amount your open or closed is greater for the same amount on the bigger head or less on the smaller head.

Factoring in as well , the fact that most people have far more trouble squaring up the club head that larger it is and it seems like the smaller head 'could' be more forgiving overall.

Thoughts ?

[Bomb and Gouge]

I think you're nuts!

 

Never before have drivers been in the bags of so many amateurs. And there's one reason for that.

[jaskanski]

If you have no trouble finding the centre of the clubface then there shouldn't be a problem with any sized driver - it won't need to be forgiving.

Those who randomly hit all over the clubface may need a larger area to find decent contact with the ball. In short, a larger, more forgiving club.

So by a process of logical progression, you are indeed nuts.

[tbowles411]

I vote nuts! ;)

[HarboursideTC]

Well, I would have to agree with all my professional colleagues that have submitted responses to your posting - You are nuts, but we love you anyways. Generally speaking, larger drivers do help most golfers, IMO.

 

On the other hand, it is possible that you (and others like you, if there are any, LOL) might be more accurate, longer, straighter with a smaller-headed driver. A smaller driver might just fit your eye better and you might hit the magical sweet spot more often, or at least get closer. That Tiger guy and his Nike buddy with the huge belt buckle have switched to the Dymo 380cc driver. Of course, they are a bitter than most of us.

[Schilly]

I think a difference though is that maybe some people (Me included) are tricked into over swinging more often with a larger head. I think there is a market for smaller heads but most people in golf forums think that's crazy.

 

PGA driving accuracy has been going down over the last 10 years or so though soo....

[goodvibes]

Big heads are harder to find in the swing and often have less correcting gear effect. They do however hit much straighter in the first place and twist less/go further on off center hits. Some guys just hit the middle more often on smaller heads because they can feel where they are from the smaller concentration of mass.

[RRFireblade]

I do agree on the forgivness of off center hits but speaking only for myself , That's never really hurt me. I have a pretty quick swing speed and when I'm off a little , squaring up the big head is my problem . . . it now seems.

 

I feel like I can feel the larger head fighting it's way thru the wind , I mean you can hear it , whereas the smaller head cuts thru effortlessly. It's like I can feel precisely where the face is unlike the 460's.

 

It all started a few weeks ago when I played a course that required me to pull 3W more often than normal. I was hitting it nearly as far as I do my driver and I've never liked that 3W. I only bought it to match the FT3 I had at the time. That said , I always hit it dead straight and at a nice medium trajectory whether off the deck , tee or where ever.

 

Got me thinking why that is. So I picked up a bulk lot of 'old' heads off the bay along with a few identical shafts and figured I'd have a weeks go at and see what happens.

 

And here I am. :) I've picked up a few more yards carry and my direction control is basically the same as my 3W. It's almost less fun now. ;)

 

Only thing is I still need to find some lower lofts to try out as with all my drivers , I still hit a pretty high ball with all carry and little roll.

[love2golf]

Do the smaller headed drivers you are using have the same length shaft as the 460cc driver heads? That would be the main question I have mainly because the newer 460cc heads are coming with 46" shafts now. If the smaller heads have 44.5" or 45" shafts then that would most likely explain why you are hitting them better.

 

If all the drivers you have tried are all the same shaft length then, yeah, you're nuts! :tongue:

[JMSDKS]

I agree with the shaft length proposal. I do much better with a shorter driver versus a longer driver regardless of head size. I think subconsciously my posture changes when I have a driver that is too long and this changes my overall spine angle (too upright). Or I could just suck at golf.

[RRFireblade]

Do the smaller headed drivers you are using have the same length shaft as the 460cc driver heads? That would be the main question I have mainly because the newer 460cc heads are coming with 46" shafts now. If the smaller heads have 44.5" or 45" shafts then that would most likely explain why you are hitting them better.

 

If all the drivers you have tried are all the same shaft length then, yeah, you're nuts! :tongue:

 

Yah , shafts all the same. I purpose shafted everything I was trying the same.

 

I guess I'm just nuts then. :) I just got back from a range session with 7.5* 983K X shafted. Pure money. :)

 

I think I'm ready to go hit the monitor and get some numbers to build my next gamer.

 

Now to find a modern tech'd small head . . .

[gpo]

BTW the way the reason PGA Tour driving accuracy has been going done is because the guys on Tour feel that they are just as good from the rough from 100 than from the fairway from 150-160. They can stop the ball with today's wedges from the rough. Right now it is hit the ball as far as you can and worry about where it ends up later. Plus they have such great short games that they are not going to take a bogey from the rough from 130. Also when they do hit the fairway and are 100 out they are so deadly many guys feel it is almost an auto-birdie.

[freddiec]

sooner or later we'll all go back to smaller headed driver. We're just waiting for the manufacturers to tell us when, right? ;) ;) ;)

[love2golf]

Do the smaller headed drivers you are using have the same length shaft as the 460cc driver heads? That would be the main question I have mainly because the newer 460cc heads are coming with 46" shafts now. If the smaller heads have 44.5" or 45" shafts then that would most likely explain why you are hitting them better.

 

If all the drivers you have tried are all the same shaft length then, yeah, you're nuts! :tongue:

 

Yah , shafts all the same. I purpose shafted everything I was trying the same.

 

I guess I'm just nuts then. :) I just got back from a range session with 7.5* 983K X shafted. Pure money. :)

 

I think I'm ready to go hit the monitor and get some numbers to build my next gamer.

 

Now to find a modern tech'd small head . . .

 

Just kidding about you being nuts. To each his own. I play a smaller head in the 420cc Bridgestone. It seems like you can really get some low spin out of the smaller heads. That's what I need because I launch it too high and with too much spin on most driver heads. But there is definitely a difference in forgiveness between this driver and 460cc heads.... The 460cc are more forgiving for me.

[laseranimal]

You're not nuts

 

We've all been sold a whole lot of marketing hype. The COR is the same folks. Theres no way any new driver is going to be ANY longer then a perfectly fitted old one and yet we continue to buy "the longest driver we've ever produced"

 

As for distance lost on misshits I don't know about the rest of you but if I've got the face 2* open or closed at impact I'd much rather the ball went shorter rather then longer cause around here 250 yards is into the jungle and I'm hitting 3 from the tee. Losing 50 yards means I'm hitting a hybrid instead of a low/mid iron

[JoeHatesSnow]

sooner or later we'll all go back to smaller headed driver. We're just waiting for the manufacturers to tell us when, right? ;) ;) ;)

 

 

Bingo.

[hypergolf]

sooner or later we'll all go back to smaller headed driver. We're just waiting for the manufacturers to tell us when, right? ;) ;) ;)

 

 

Bingo.

 

 

I agree with freddiec that most golfers these days just follow the trend blindly with what the manufactures produce out there. So I guess when the OEMs say 460cc is the way to go then most will go that way. (You could totally see the trend that people were moving towards just a few years back). Now that 460cc has reached the limit, the OEMs have to make some kind of excuse (like going down in size) and re-brain wash the general public... haha... So I guess people who are still playing with r7 425 TP or 983K etc are the ones laughing at the blind followers... hehe...

 

Anyway, my friend said a similar thing the other day so you (OP) might not be the only one thinking that way. He keeps telling me that he gets more swing speed and better contact with smaller driver heads. He is assuming it's because of the drag... Larger surface has more drag but would it make that much difference??? I kind of doubt but it does have it's logic though... Look at Adams Speedline... What do you guys think?

[weissmanjeff]

I think you could make a case for golfers with a "repeatable" swing that the better mid-size drivers of the last 5 years might provide excellent results. R510TP, R7 425 TP, J33 420, etc. are all as hot as anything out there. With more mass behind the ball and lower spin, these drivers may prove best. However, for somebody bringing 89 swings for 90 strokes, these are not the drivers for them.

[RRFireblade]

Anyway, my friend said a similar thing the other day so you (OP) might not be the only one thinking that way. He keeps telling me that he gets more swing speed and better contact with smaller driver heads. He is assuming it's because of the drag... Larger surface has more drag but would it make that much difference??? I kind of doubt but it does have it's logic though... Look at Adams Speedline... What do you guys think?

 

Well here's the deal with me , it's 2 fold. . . hang on . . . 3 fold ? :)

 

First off , I know right on the button where I hit the 325 each time. I feel like I can focus like down to the millimeter where I want to hit it on the face each time an keep that point dialed right in. The 460 , I always have to look at the mark on the face , the "on the button" feel is so broad that by the time I start actually missing it I'm off by like an inch or something.

 

Second , the smaller heads just seems to square right up without effort. I don't know if it's the wind resistance or the more centered mass. Maybe the high MOI off the big heads resists squaring as much as it resists twisting on impact ? Maybe the wind resistance is fighting the large face trying to turn it into the path of least resistance , like when you stick your hand out the window of a car like an airplane wing. IDK

 

Lastly , and this is a minor one , but I agree with prefering the lack of distance on a bad mis hit. I hit the ball a pretty long way and if I go after one and send it off line it's long gone , like way long gone. I actually prefer mising one and still having a shot from the rough somewhere rather than reloading back at the Tee. :)

[RRFireblade]

Just played my second round under par with my 'new' 8 year old driver. My misses are less dramitic with it with distance on misses is no worse than the 460. In fact , on the screws shots are a good 10 yards longer.

 

 

FWIW

[HarboursideTC]

If it works for you - then that is a very good thing and there is no point in discussing it further. Golf is a weird game and we all play differently. Peter Jacobson has also gone back to his 983. The longest hitter that I have ever played with still hits his 983. Be happy!!!!!!!

 

David

[69 another time]

Regarding smaller heads. I really wish the USGA limited volumn to 400cc`s. I think the Mfg`s can do just as much with a 400 as they have done with the 460. I`m looking forward to the heads getting smaller. For me w I wish they would produce heads at 360, that would be perfect. I think that was the size of the Titleist 983 that was perfect.

[blademan68]

Although I am not done testing the 460 heads, none of the several I've tried have been nearly as forgiving for me as either of the two 983K heads (7.5 and 9.5) I just ebayed or even a 975D I did a little experimenting with last year. It seems that if the face is not perfectly square with the 460s the mishit goes way off line whcih, I assume, must be due to lack of gear affect. Additional drag from the 460s certainly means 3-4mph less clubhead speed (I've tested it closely with a swing speed machine) but I am a high swing speed/spin player and the launch conditions are much better for me with the 460 heads so I do average at least as far with them as I do with the smaller heads.

 

The fact is that tour distance has decreased slightly after peaking about 5 years ago and accuracy has gone down as well. The fairways are probably slightly narrower but not enough to account for the drop in accuracy (about 5%) and with accuracy down shouldn't distance be up ?. The 100yds out from the rough with a wedge theory just doesn't makes sense if you actually look at the stats........

[HackerD]

Anyway, my friend said a similar thing the other day so you (OP) might not be the only one thinking that way. He keeps telling me that he gets more swing speed and better contact with smaller driver heads. He is assuming it's because of the drag... Larger surface has more drag but would it make that much difference??? I kind of doubt but it does have it's logic though... Look at Adams Speedline... What do you guys think?

 

Well here's the deal with me , it's 2 fold. . . hang on . . . 3 fold ? :)

 

First off , I know right on the button where I hit the 325 each time. I feel like I can focus like down to the millimeter where I want to hit it on the face each time an keep that point dialed right in. The 460 , I always have to look at the mark on the face , the "on the button" feel is so broad that by the time I start actually missing it I'm off by like an inch or something.

 

Second , the smaller heads just seems to square right up without effort. I don't know if it's the wind resistance or the more centered mass. Maybe the high MOI off the big heads resists squaring as much as it resists twisting on impact ? Maybe the wind resistance is fighting the large face trying to turn it into the path of least resistance , like when you stick your hand out the window of a car like an airplane wing. IDK

 

Lastly , and this is a minor one , but I agree with prefering the lack of distance on a bad mis hit. I hit the ball a pretty long way and if I go after one and send it off line it's long gone , like way long gone. I actually prefer mising one and still having a shot from the rough somewhere rather than reloading back at the Tee. :)

 

 

Your second point especially makes sense to me. More difficult to square the 460 so you leave it open on some swings and you overdo it on others and pull hook it. Swing can become too handsy. The 325 and 400 are still huge and pretty forgiving compared to old school drivers that I could never hit. One day when I was having driver trouble i borrowed my son's Launcher 400 and had a geat driving day.

[magnus7319]

I think you are right on. I recently switched from the Burner / TourBurner / 905R / 907D2 / Sumo rotation I had going on back to the 905S, 400cc. Drives were longer, and straighter. I then pulled the old 983E out, 350cc, and had the best driving day of my life. I hit the sweet spot much, much more often on the smaller headed drivers. I think back to the days of my original taylor made ti burner bubble, and all the fairways I used to hit...I liken it to this analogy - when you are putting a roof on, and drving roofing nails, you use a hammer that has a surface area not all that much larger than the nailhead, maybe 3 nailheads across - you wouldn't use a hammer with the surface area of a sledgehammer...maybe thats what 460cc is - a sledgehammer, when we just need a hammer?

[Cloran]

Anyway, my friend said a similar thing the other day so you (OP) might not be the only one thinking that way. He keeps telling me that he gets more swing speed and better contact with smaller driver heads. He is assuming it's because of the drag... Larger surface has more drag but would it make that much difference??? I kind of doubt but it does have it's logic though... Look at Adams Speedline... What do you guys think?

 

Well here's the deal with me , it's 2 fold. . . hang on . . . 3 fold ? :)

 

First off , I know right on the button where I hit the 325 each time. I feel like I can focus like down to the millimeter where I want to hit it on the face each time an keep that point dialed right in. The 460 , I always have to look at the mark on the face , the "on the button" feel is so broad that by the time I start actually missing it I'm off by like an inch or something.

 

Second , the smaller heads just seems to square right up without effort. I don't know if it's the wind resistance or the more centered mass. Maybe the high MOI off the big heads resists squaring as much as it resists twisting on impact ? Maybe the wind resistance is fighting the large face trying to turn it into the path of least resistance , like when you stick your hand out the window of a car like an airplane wing. IDK

 

Lastly , and this is a minor one , but I agree with prefering the lack of distance on a bad mis hit. I hit the ball a pretty long way and if I go after one and send it off line it's long gone , like way long gone. I actually prefer mising one and still having a shot from the rough somewhere rather than reloading back at the Tee. :)

 

 

Your second point especially makes sense to me. More difficult to square the 460 so you leave it open on some swings and you overdo it on others and pull hook it. Swing can become too handsy. The 325 and 400 are still huge and pretty forgiving compared to old school drivers that I could never hit. One day when I was having driver trouble i borrowed my son's Launcher 400 and had a geat driving day.

 

I just picked up a Launcher 400 with and Aldila NV shaft for $30 on ebay. I am away on business right now and played with a few guys this weekend. I had to borrowed set of clubs and the set came with a beat up 400... I loved it! I had forgotten just how solid that head is. I just had to Ho' one!!!

[seypat]

That point about preferring the distance loss is right on! For all the people who are trying the lastest stuff to get more distance beware. Once you get the extra distance hitting one offline means that baby is gone off the property OB. I much prefer the 200 yard mishit in the fairway or the rough over that 300 yard home run over the fence! This also applies to my irons as well. I much prefer that miss that leaves me 20 yards in front of the green instead of pin high short sided. I feel I have a better chance for par from in front of the green (unless it is a water hole) than with that short side. Also the misses seem to be more predictable.

 

Nothing worse than watching that long, straight, hammered drive heading into the jungle or clearing the OB stakes on its apex as you are screaming "get dowwwwwwnnnn" to no avail. It sure looks pretty however.

[frozen_rope]

Smaller headed drivers are easier to make square impact with than larger headed drivers.

Large headed drivers offer more playable results off mishits than do smaller headed drivers.

 

So here's my thought . . .

 

I put together 2 smaller headed drivers , a 400 and a 325 and yeah , I killing them both like you would not believe. I feel like I have far more forgiviness over dispersion than with any of the 460's I have hit in the same sessions.

 

So I'm thinking about it and had a thought , if the squareness (face) of the club is levered down the spine of the shaft and the larger headed clubs put thier center/sweetspot farther from that lever , then any deviation from square is magnified by that distance.

 

What I'm saying is the amount your open or closed is greater for the same amount on the bigger head or less on the smaller head.

 

Factoring in as well , the fact that most people have far more trouble squaring up the club head that larger it is and it seems like the smaller head 'could' be more forgiving overall.

 

Thoughts ?

[HarboursideTC]

Smaller headed drivers are easier to make square impact with than larger headed drivers.

Large headed drivers offer more playable results off mishits than do smaller headed drivers.

 

Well said, Frozen Rope