Thoughts/suggestion on how your private clubs do tee times

[Herm33]

I'm on a committee and want to suggest something...

This may or may not be in the appropriate section so please move if necessary. And this will be a little wordy so please bear with me.

I've been a member of a private club in southwest Ohio since the mid 80's, my dad joined there when I was 7 years old. Am now almost 32 and a junior member, and was asked to be on the "golf" committee at our course, which deals with things golf related, cart related, handicaps, etc.

Our place is a golf club only, no swimming pool, tennis court, no fancy restaurant, etc. and has always prided itself on being one of the most affordable values you can get in the area while also having a pretty good quality course.

Another one of the main attractions also is that our course has never done tee times. It's always been show up and put your name down and tee it up in the order you arrive. We have a ladies morning on Tuesday's and some very minor rules for youngsters, but that's about it. For many years this has worked well, as our club always had a high mix of retirees versus working members, so rounds were always spread out very well during the week and weekend. Also, for as long as I can remember, there has been a money game simply called "The game" that played at different set times during the week and at 9:30 on Sat. and Sunday mornings.

In the last 10 or so years, there has been a pretty noticeable shift in the dynamic of our club. Much younger, more families, etc. More people like me, with young kids at home and full time job, whose golf schedule pretty much involves practicing once maybe twice a week, then play once on the weekend.

Also over the last few years, the club has more or less "officially" blessed the creation of a couple other money games on the weekend. One is played right at 7am when the course opens, another at 8am where you call in ahead of time, and the longstanding "Game" at 9:30am, also a call ahead entry. Not big money, $6-$12 for each, and all are blind draws for partners and groups.

My issue, though, as I see it, is that weekends have naturally become higher priority times to play because of our changing dynamic, and we have shrunk the available times to play for people that just want to come out and play within their own group of friends. I myself have played for years in the standard 9:30 game and have started to play more in the 7am early game due to family, but sometimes I just want to play with my dad and couple other friends who are good players simply for the enjoyment of playing with people I like to play with (the money games are all blind draw and sometime you end up paired up with people that just aren't enjoyable to play with.)

So my question would be, does anyone have any experience or suggestions on how we might be able to incorporate tee times into our club while also maintaining the existence of the money games which have seemingly become a part of the normal weekend schedule. Although we aren't the most technologically advanced club, I have to believe there's a way to make this happen. On some mornings, things can move smoothly and you can tee off within 45 minutes of getting to the course, but sometimes things are very crowded, and with all the various game being played I'll end up at the course for 6 1/2 hours just to get 18 holes in.

Any thoughts are very much appreciated. And if I bored you out of your mind, please accept my apologies!!

[LHgolfer]

You usually join clubs to play in larger groups/money games. Maybe a suggestion would be to have the games moved to every other weekend and open up the tee sheet to everyone on the off week.

 

It sucks to be a member somewhere and you can only play early in the money game and not with your regular group.

[longballjs]

Why not just set a block of times that they can play their money games?

[Herm33]

Why not just set a block of times that they can play their money games?

 

Ideally, I think this is kind of how we would have to proceed. But the one thing that people seem to really like about the money games is all you have to do is call in 45 minutes to an hour before hand to "sign up" that morning. In order to block off times for the game, you would need to let people know that they need to commit earlier in the week to play on that given morning.

 

Or I guess the other thing you could do is say that each game is pre-determined to have no more than, say, 5-6 groups. Once those times are full, you need to find your own group or play outside the game. Not sure this would fly too well with the membership. But it would create some discussion at least.

 

All I'm really hoping to initially accomplish with bringing this up is to get some recognition from some of the board members that we have a changing dynamic at the club and need to think about some things for the future. We can't just stand still and live by the principles and practices of the 1980's and 90's and think that people will always be happy with the club.

[phil75070]

I belong to a club with two distinct courses. The more difficult of the two discontinued an official "money game" but there is a game run by a particular group of guys. They have to call in for their tee times like anyone else with the specific names added as people call in and "sign up". If they anticipate 12 or 16 guys based on what they have been told by those interested, they will make three or four times as appropriate times. If more than the 12 or the 16 call in to sign up they are out of luck. At the other course, they kept the game on weekends but I believe it goes off at 8:30AM and people again have to call in ahead of time to sign up and play in it. I don't know of any set games during the week.

 

A course I used to belong to basically had a "game" everyday at noon, including weekends, with a block of times set aside for them by the club. Show up and play. I think that worked very well. It gave the casual members the opportunity to play in the morning, which is important to many here in Texas in the summer.

 

I think having two games on weekends in somewhat inconsiderate, especially the one at 7:00AM.

[TheBUNKY]

First off you should be awarded some sort of award or bullet proof vest since you are now on the committee. Some of the board meetings I've attended I felt rather lucky to get out alive. There is something about implementing change in a club that tends to get the membership's dander up.

 

Tee times are your answer. Have the money guys book them every week at 7 and increments of ten minutes. That way they can all hook up on the second tee and play as they usually do. I am assuming the money games consist of more than a foursome, no?

 

Our club starts tee times at 8 am each Saturday beginning around Memorial Day week. Only on Saturdays are golfers required to have tee times between the hours of 8 am and 11. After 11 am its first to the first tee has honor. Holidays are also in there but that's only for Memorial Day, the 4th of July and Labor day. Tee times aren't required any other holiday. Our club halts the tee time requirement after September or so when it slows down.

 

Maybe that would help everyone else out. We don't allow tee times to be made for more than three days in advance.

 

The reason I made this suggestion is this. Every Saturday and Holiday, the same group of guys have the early tee time at our club. Every one of them walk and are done with 18 holes by 11 am. Our course plays 7100 yards from the tips.

[MrJones]

Our club does a dogfight that's randomly paired. All the participants do is sign up and turn in their score by the end of the day.

 

We don't have tee times either and have a couple of big groups that come out to play together but they're not out there at prime playing times.

[Herm33]

Thanks for all the good feedback so far. In all actuality, to address what you had said phil75070, it's the blessing of the 8:00am game that I think really created the problem. The 7am group is typically about 3-4 groups and they play pretty quickly, it's very usual for any of those groups not to get around in less than 4 hours. The 8:00 game can balloon to 7-8 groups on a nice day, and they can really start to slow the play down. Then once you get to the 9:30 game, the course can be really packed because groups are going off one after another as soon as the first fairway is clear, and rounds in the 9:30 game have become 4.5 hours common place. The pros try to do everything they can to get everyone off the first tee in a reasonable amount of time, but fitting 20 groups into 2 hours worth of times just doesn't work.

 

And to comment also on the last post, we really only need this in the peak season (April-Sept) for 7am-noon on Saturdays and Sundays, so it's not like we'd be turning people's worlds upside down. But there's always the element of change that gets the membership fired up!

 

I feel that some sort of combination of structured times for the money games along with the ability to advance reserve a time up to 5-7 days could really alleviate the pace of play and give you the ability to plan your round out better if you want to play within your own set group.

[migolfke]

I am not a member at a club, never have been. But, to me the appeal seemed to be that rounds wouldn't take 6 1/2 hours. You could show up play with some guys you like, practice when you want, etc.

 

Why not do tee time from like 6:45 to 8:45 and then do the money game at 9? This way those guys that want to play in the am and get home to their families can do so, and those that can stick around longer can still play their normal money game.

[Herm33]

Our club does a dogfight that's randomly paired. All the participants do is sign up and turn in their score by the end of the day.

 

We don't have tee times either and have a couple of big groups that come out to play together but they're not out there at prime playing times.

 

It really is the fact that we've jammed up the "prime playing times" as you correctly phrased it, that I think needs to be addressed.

[ijustgolf]

JW

Which course in SW Ohio?

[Adidas_23]

So my question would be, does anyone have any experience or suggestions on how we might be able to incorporate tee times into our club while also maintaining the existence of the money games which have seemingly become a part of the normal weekend schedule. Although we aren't the most technologically advanced club, I have to believe there's a way to make this happen. On some mornings, things can move smoothly and you can tee off within 45 minutes of getting to the course, but sometimes things are very crowded, and with all the various game being played I'll end up at the course for 6 1/2 hours just to get 18 holes in.

 

Any thoughts are very much appreciated. And if I bored you out of your mind, please accept my apologies!!

 

 

it sounds like your club is walking a thin line here in my opinion. if you look at it from another perspective, it sounds like what your club has effectively done is create tee-times already, perhaps unknowingly. there are weekly tee times from 7-730 (assuming 3-4 groups), a tee-times from 8-830, and tee times from 9-930. yes, they are "open" to everyone, but they are effectively closed to anyone that doesn't want to play with those people or play for money.

 

what our club does may not work for everyone, but I will throw it out there. there are no tee-times from open to 10am on weekends. first come, first served, sign up in the pro-shop, pro's, tee times every 8 min.

 

after 10am, there is a lottery system for tee times. you give your name, group size and desired time to the proshop during the week, they put all requests in a box. then friday PM they draw out all of the pieces of paper and try to line up tee-times accordingly and in the order taken out. typically you get out with 30 min of your request. we only have about 385 members so I don't know if the size is an issue. usually late morning/early PM there is no one, so you don't have to worry about it.

 

I know that I would be really pissed if I joined a club and found out that 1.5 hours (in my example) of the first 3 hours of tee times were already pre-allotted for some group (even if I could join that group). I love that fact that I can get there at 6am, before anyone else, wait for the shop to open, and choose my time. maybe it will be 7am, maybe it will be 9am. there of course games you can join, but in my opinion those people should have to play by the rules like everyone else. they should send 2-3 people early to secure the times they want. if they get there before you, and grab the times, then more power to them. but it gives you chance to get a quality time if you want to play with your dad, or bring a guest, or whatever.

 

just my $0.02 cents, my $0.10 is free

[againstthegrain]

I've been in 2 clubs and have been part of "the game." The first one is a small club w declining membership that had to cater to us. It wasn't fair that we monopolized the same time every week, but we got away w it.

 

My current club has tee times from 7am till noon or so on weekends and holidays. You can get t times by contacting the starter starting on Monday for the week. There are several games that go on and they have their contact book all the 4 somes at once just like everyone else. It's the only fair way.

[DLiver]

When I first read your post, I thought you might be a member at my club! We, too, have seen a very significant change in our membership. We also have seen a large influx of younger members who are more family oriented and tend to have constraints on their time. We have neither tee times, nor do we have any sanctioned money games, so that's where the similarity ends.

 

It does sound to me like you have too many money games acting as a roadblock during the prime playing hours--there should be a simple solution, but nothing comes harder than change at an old-style private club.

 

I belong to another club that has tee times. You sign up by via the web (or by calling the pro shop). The system has its strengths and weaknesses, but overall it works very well.

 

Good luck with your efforts.

[ijustgolf]

Which clubs are we talking about in SW Ohio? Just wondering. Want to see if the one i belong to is in this mix.

[phil75070]

I forgot to mention, our club, both courses are private clubs and have tee times all the time. At the course that is full membership, has 27 holes and is more family oriented, one can book tee times for the coming weekend starting at 6:00PM the previous Sunday or a week ahead for other days. At the more difficult of the two, calls can start at 7:30AM on Tuesday for Saturday and 7:30 AM on Wednesday for Sunday. Basically, the earliest you can call ahead is four days. However, that doesn't mean that you can't get off as the pros will try their best to get anyone who wants to play out on the course in a reasonable time. That is one of the benefits of NOT being at full membership.

 

All players that show up must register in the pro shop and they are handed an "official" scorecard. The handicap committee, to reduce sandbagging, checks against the tee time sheet for the returned cards. They are strict and adamant about ALL scores being turned in. As a result, the club has a great reputation as an honest "player's club". The only time issues arise are when there is a member guest as they have no way of knowing how legitimate the handicap at the guest's home course might be even though they call to verify them.

[I A N]

ouch it sounds like your in a bit of a tough situation, it looks like their money game will have to be moved, thats the only fix i can really see..

[jmmsports]

Not having tee times is a double edged sword. It's great because you never have to call ahead to find out what is available, but if the whole world wants to play at the same time you do then you could be in for a loooonnnng wait. Standing behind the counter at a club that doesn't have tee times I've learned what is and is not "prime time" Weekend mornings are "prime time" and I've seen it happen. Players who want to get out early will show up before the tee opens (6:30 Memorial Day through Labor Day) and get right out. By 8:00 or so the tee gets backed up a bit (volume will do that) but not much on an average day. Players showing up at 8:00 planning to play at 8:30-9:00 hardly get out when they plan. I've learned that if you want to play fast...Play early. The 6:30 players are usually done by 9:30-10:00 but the 9:00 players are usually lucky to be done by 1:30. IMO your club made a mistake "blessing" the money games taking specific blocks of time. The players in those games paid the same dues that the non-money players did and have no more right to play at a specific time than any other member. Maybe going to tee times (weekend mornings only) might help, but only if everyone has the same chance of getting the tee times. If you choose to stay tee time free you still need to do away with preferred tratment for the money games and tell tell "Get in line like everyone else" Although if you do that, you may need the bullet proof vest someone else mentioned. :help:

 

Good luck!

[Herm33]

All players that show up must register in the pro shop and they are handed an "official" scorecard. The handicap committee, to reduce sandbagging, checks against the tee time sheet for the returned cards. They are strict and adamant about ALL scores being turned in. As a result, the club has a great reputation as an honest "player's club". The only time issues arise are when there is a member guest as they have no way of knowing how legitimate the handicap at the guest's home course might be even though they call to verify them.

 

As I mentioned in my initial post, part of what the 4 person "golf" committee that I will be part of addresses is handicaps as well, and this little tidbit above is outstanding. Thanks phil.

 

Again guys, great stuff and thanks a lot. I was a little hesitant in starting the topic thinking I might get flamed a little bit for whining about the situation, but I do feel pretty strongly that our club has made a few mistakes in the last few years, albeit maybe unknowingly.

 

My wife's job is in IT project management, and as I was discussing this with her this evening she said it really wouldn't be all that difficult to set up a system either through our club's website or at least something in the pro shop that the pros can use that would make the tee time system user friendly and could still allow for the "games" on the weekend.

 

Got some great ideas and thoughts here, next step I guess will be to have a chat with the head of our golf committee, who is on the board, to get his thoughts.

 

meyer, I'll pm you the club name as I wouldn't want to necessarily put that out in the open.

[againstthegrain]

We can use the club website to get times. Easy on the member and easier for the starter. (I don't ever think it's ever easy for the starter.)

 

FWIW there is almost always a bet on matches at our place whether you're part of your regular group or not. I don't think the distinction should be the bet I think it should be that a regular group monopolizes the same time week after week. If I were the op I'd keep that out of the discussion as it will just bring up more nonsense to distract and deflect from the changes that should be made.

[Double Gee]

whatever happens, you will make some one or persons unhappy!! DAMNED IF YOU DO; DAMNED IF YOU DON'T.

 

 

My old club had an identical situation - it was solved by getting the 'GAME' personnel organised (we called them Swindles). Having one person a sort of captain/secretary of the group who organised how many tee times would be needed. So, as a matter of course 5 tee times were ALWAYS booked and if the GAME needed a few more, they were sort of squeezed in .. if far less, then the times were given back to the course.

 

If too many turned up without informing the captain, then it was hard luck .... we are fully booked.. you should have told me.

 

After the initial problems, it all has gone well .. in fact the GAME people now have their own internal h/c and competitions ON TOP of the Club's official ones.

[LHgolfer]

At a very exclusive club here in Houston, one of the assitants would sit on the 1st tee at 7. The assistant would pass out score cards, collect money and keep track of who is in what game or any game at all. Everyone would turn in their card after the round and the money would be paid out either same day or there were envelopes in the pro shop for the players who won and they could pick them up next time they are out.

[Sam-Tee-Time]

whatever happens, you will make some one or persons unhappy!! DAMNED IF YOU DO; DAMNED IF YOU DON'T.

 

 

My old club had an identical situation - it was solved by getting the 'GAME' personnel organised (we called them Swindles). Having one person a sort of captain/secretary of the group who organised how many tee times would be needed. So, as a matter of course 5 tee times were ALWAYS booked and if the GAME needed a few more, they were sort of squeezed in .. if far less, then the times were given back to the course.

 

If too many turned up without informing the captain, then it was hard luck .... we are fully booked.. you should have told me.

 

After the initial problems, it all has gone well .. in fact the GAME people now have their own internal h/c and competitions ON TOP of the Club's official ones.

 

Very well said, you can't please everybody, but my $.02 is to not let any specific demographic takeover the tee times. Try to keep a balance, and accomodate everyone, within reason. Balance it with blocks of reserved time, but scatter open spots to allow for walk-ups.

 

EXAMPLE: My previous club was full of gamblers, drunks, and carousers. It was VERY common on busy Sat/sun mornings, to see groups of 5, 6, 7 golfers, and sometimes in the evenings, I've seen TEN/TWELVE-SOMES! Yes, that's correct - I've seen 6-7 carts full of drinker/gamblers out there in a single group!

 

however - they are instructed to allow singles and faster groups to play thru, and they keep their carousing within their group. As a single walker, they always let me play thru, and did not disrupt my play. I'm not a fan of big groups on crowded mornings, but otherwise - it worked OK for everyone.

[againstthegrain]

whatever happens, you will make some one or persons unhappy!! DAMNED IF YOU DO; DAMNED IF YOU DON'T.

 

 

My old club had an identical situation - it was solved by getting the 'GAME' personnel organised (we called them Swindles). Having one person a sort of captain/secretary of the group who organised how many tee times would be needed. So, as a matter of course 5 tee times were ALWAYS booked and if the GAME needed a few more, they were sort of squeezed in .. if far less, then the times were given back to the course.

 

If too many turned up without informing the captain, then it was hard luck .... we are fully booked.. you should have told me.

 

After the initial problems, it all has gone well .. in fact the GAME people now have their own internal h/c and competitions ON TOP of the Club's official ones.

 

This is exactly how the "game" has been handled at both clubs although at the first club it was always the same time(which is unfair to the general membership) and my 2nd club the "games" have to compete w the general membership for specific tee times.

[Openwater22]

Send a limited amount of groups off #10.

[hbear]

This is why most private clubs I know of have gone to a ballot system.

Everybody puts their preferred times in for the weekends/holidays and the computer randomly assigns (but tracks) times based on your preference and other groups preferences.

E.g. if you are the only group wanting the 6:30 time....it's yours. If 10 groups want it....they it's random draw. The kicker is that the group that got the time this week, has less of a chance to get it next week. I suppose it would be similar to the NBA/NHL lottery...but I honestly don't know the inner workings of the ballot draw.

 

Needless to say it's a fair system, and 95% of the time you get your draw within 30mins of your preferred time.

[ArnieTX]

Shotgun everyone off at 0730 on Saturdays. Enforce fall behind rule.

 

Sunday use tee time system.

 

or vice versa.....

 

Shotgun is effective, have 2 groups per hole on a few extra holes (like Par 4 after par 5) and you can stuff everyone in early. 84 golfers simultaneously starting golf and finishing before noon.

[hbear]

Yeah but it only works if everybody can play at 7:30am for a shotgun....I'd be pissed (and finding another course to play) if we were forced to play a 7:30a shotgun EVERY Saturday....

I'm ok with the time, but IMO shotguns are not as much fun to play, nevermind you aren't really playing the course the way it was designed.

Designers layout a course a certain way....e.g. ease a player into their round (vs. putting the #1 handicap hole as the starting one), etc.

 

To add, part of the reason many of us pay extra to play a private course is so we DO NOT have to play 4.5 hour rounds.....if I'm teeing off at 7:30am we are done in 3.5 hours and I'm back home by 11:30am....not still on the course till noon.