Putter head sole weight question

[raymo]

Lighter vs Heavier

I have been playing with an SC fastback with 20 gram weights in the sole. This has worked good for me so far. I like the weight and feel but I wondered what lighter weights vs heavier would mean performance wise.

Would lighter weights in the head make it easier to roll the ball on long putts? Would heavier weights help with swing path?

I am curious to hear your thoughts and opinions.

Thanks

[CO_Hacker]

Great question. I just bought a Never Compromise putter with weights as well and was curious about the same thing. Currently it is at 350 grams but wonder about making it heavier. The instruction sheet that came with it shows examples where if you are pushing right or left than adjust by lighter or heavier weights but for now, I've just got to get used to hitting it before I start tinkering.

[raymo]

Yeah I am wondering if I have a tendency to get the line right but leave the ball short then maybe lighter weights might help?

I know there are more underling stroke issues there but I am curious about different weights.

[frozen_rope]

35 length with 330 head weight is ideal. This gives the correct sound/feeback and also creates a swing weight of about D1-D3 for promoting good playing swing rhythm/tempo/timing.
As heads get heavier to 340, 350, even 360 grams, the sound/feeback of the putter diminishes. With heavier heads there is little to no sound difference between a solidly struck putt and a mishit.
If you like a 34" putter, then for that shorter length a 340 gram head is best, but going heavier in head weight than 340 grams, or shorter in shaft length than 34", becomes counter productive.

[quote name='raymo' post='2071971' date='Nov 18 2009, 05:17 PM']I have been playing with an SC fastback with 20 gram weights in the sole. This has worked good for me so far. I like the weight and feel but I wondered what lighter weights vs heavier would mean performance wise.

Would lighter weights in the head make it easier to roll the ball on long putts? Would heavier weights help with swing path?

I am curious to hear your thoughts and opinions.

Thanks[/quote]

[mister2cool]

I can't totally agree with the previous post. While (33\350, 34\340, 35\330) has been accepted as the standard preferred weight combo. It kinda came to be because SC made it so on their earlier popular models. Even SC upped the weight standard in its new lines such as Select and California to 33\360, 34\350 and 35\340.

The sound and feel vary from putter to putter, and also depends on the person using it. I have two Studio Select, both 34", one is standard at 350g and the other one is heavy at 360g, and they do not feel or sound any different at all. I have played with weights in my GM2 and going from 350 to 360, it became a completely different putter in both sound and feel. The GM2 actually felt quite nice with no weight inside at 330g.

Generally speaking a heavier head helps to keep putter head online with its momentum. This may be good for people who tend to have too much hand motion in putting stroke. A lighter head requires a slightly longer stroke but provides more feedback, and good for people with more stable stroke and prefer more feel.

If you are leaving putts short, you should try to increase the weight and make the same stroke. Tiger adds lead tape on the sole of his putter on slower greens so he wouldn't have to adjust length of the stroke. I didn't make this up, it's in an article written by Tiger in Golf magazine.

[frozen_rope]

I've heard the belief that heavy head weight somehow helps a putter "stay stable" throughout the stroke, but I disagree.
More important, I think, and true for any golf swing, including a putting stroke, is that the player address the ball with square alignment. This alignment, together with grip technique, promotes the correct swing path.
Sure an extraordinarily heavy object will tend to gain momentum easier than a lighter object, but if the path is off line that momentum is misplaced.
For years Cameron was adamant that 35/330 or 34/340 was the proper length to weight ratio for a putter. Specifically, these numbers offered a playable swing weight which helped achieve good putting swing transition, tempo, timing. When the custom boutique shops as well as major brands like Ping and Odyssey all switched to 35/340 as their standard, I think for business reasons Cameron reluctantly had to follow suit.

[quote name='mister2cool' post='2077466' date='Nov 21 2009, 06:30 PM']I can't totally agree with the previous post. While (33\350, 34\340, 35\330) has been accepted as the standard preferred weight combo. It kinda came to be because SC made it so on their earlier popular models. Even SC upped the weight standard in its new lines such as Select and California to 33\360, 34\350 and 35\340.

The sound and feel vary from putter to putter, and also depends on the person using it. I have two Studio Select, both 34", one is standard at 350g and the other one is heavy at 360g, and they do not feel or sound any different at all. I have played with weights in my GM2 and going from 350 to 360, it became a completely different putter in both sound and feel. The GM2 actually felt quite nice with no weight inside at 330g.

Generally speaking a heavier head helps to keep putter head online with its momentum. This may be good for people who tend to have too much hand motion in putting stroke. A lighter head requires a slightly longer stroke but provides more feedback, and good for people with more stable stroke and prefer more feel.

If you are leaving putts short, you should try to increase the weight and make the same stroke. Tiger adds lead tape on the sole of his putter on slower greens so he wouldn't have to adjust length of the stroke. I didn't make this up, it's in an article written by Tiger in Golf magazine.[/quote]

[502 to Right]

[quote name='frozen_rope' post='2077658' date='Nov 21 2009, 06:35 PM']When the custom boutique shops as well as major brands like Ping and Odyssey all switched to 35/340 as their standard, I think for business reasons Cameron reluctantly had to follow suit.[/quote]

Cameron started the whole heavyweight craze with his 350 gram Tour Only putters. At the time very few professionals played with a weight that heavy but because 350 became associated with a so-called "tour weight" they became popular with the collectors.

[frozen_rope]

You may be right about that. Years ago Cameron introduced a couple of 33/350 putters because he wanted to offer guys who wanted extra short length putters of 33" something they would like. Then custom order collectors started requesting 350 gram weight heads and Cameron agreed to make these and sell them for high prices to collectors.
My guess is that the collectors just liked having something stanped "350 grams" because it was different from what was available off the rack.
As far as I know few if any Tour players ever used these heavy heads.
Tiger's putter head is about 325 grams. All the majors won with Ping were heads of about 310 to 320 grams.
I am baffled why anybody likes using these extra heavy putter heads of more than 340 grams, unless they are playing a short shaft length of 33" and need the head weight to get the swing weight up to a playable level.

[quote name='502 to Right' post='2077666' date='Nov 21 2009, 08:40 PM'][quote name='frozen_rope' post='2077658' date='Nov 21 2009, 06:35 PM']When the custom boutique shops as well as major brands like Ping and Odyssey all switched to 35/340 as their standard, I think for business reasons Cameron reluctantly had to follow suit.[/quote]

Cameron started the whole heavyweight craze with his 350 gram Tour Only putters. At the time very few professionals played with a weight that heavy but because 350 became associated with a so-called "tour weight" they became popular with the collectors.
[/quote]

[mister2cool]

[quote name='frozen_rope' post='2077658' date='Nov 21 2009, 07:35 PM']I've heard the belief that heavy head weight somehow helps a putter "stay stable" throughout the stroke, but I disagree.
More important, I think, and true for any golf swing, including a putting stroke, is that the player address the ball with square alignment. This alignment, together with grip technique, promotes the correct swing path.
Sure an extraordinarily heavy object will tend to gain momentum easier than a lighter object, but if the path is off line that momentum is misplaced.
For years Cameron was adamant that 35/330 or 34/340 was the proper length to weight ratio for a putter. Specifically, these numbers offered a playable swing weight which helped achieve good putting swing transition, tempo, timing. When the custom boutique shops as well as major brands like Ping and Odyssey all switched to 35/340 as their standard, I think for business reasons Cameron reluctantly had to follow suit.[/quote]

No doubt that a heavier head would not correct a faulty swing path or alignment. What it can do is lessen the effect of an overactive hand\wrist would cause during the stroke. Note that I said lessen, not eliminate. There really is only so much 10 or even 20 extra grams can do. You'd have to go to Heavy Putter to almost completely take hands out of play.

I could be wrong, but I don't think Odyssey ever led the way in the "heavy" trend. Their flagship Black series has always been between 330-340, and they do not use different weight for different length. I think 502 is right about the "tour weight" craze from SC being 350g, and everyone else followed suit.

[raymo]

Thanks Gents for your feedback.

[atlanta golfer]

I've got the ping iwi series anser with replaceable weights, and no question in my mind, the heavier weights get you a little more stability for shorter putts, while the lighter weights get you more feel and feedback on longer putts. I ended up in the middle, which for this putter, is actually 360 grams at 35 inches long. Heavier than most, I know, but my putts 10 feet and closer have never been better. And even for the longer lag putts, the direction control is excellent with the slightly heavier weights. I also improved my grip and stroke, so there are certainly other things in play here as well.

[wedge1]

I would have think that a heavier head would be definitely add more stability to staying on a straight back and straight forward swingpath. (Takes more effort to pull it off line). Heavy, face balanced putters would seem to be optimal for this swingpath. If you putt with an arc, the physics probably work against you having a head that's too heavy (wants to fall inside the swingpath more than a lighter one). The same reason you would want a non face-balanced putter in that circumstance.

I produce (try at least) more of a straight back and forward stroke (Really just less takeaway) on putts where the hole is in sight while putting (about 7' or less). On longer putts I get more pendulum and more inside but still produce a straight follow toward my target. In my case, I would think going that a slightly heavier putter (Than Cameron Standard) would be effective since I never produce a true arc. The previous SS putters I had always felt a little "Snake-ee" to me on takeaway...both were 34/350. I have one on order (2.5) 34/360 to see how that works. I need to weigh the Oil Can Classic NP 2 I just found as I am knocking the lights out with that one.