Miura, Kyoei Golf, Epon

[vertigo88]

I'll be bold (and may catch some flak for this) and say it right here, right now: these three companies are the triforce of Japanese forged golf clubs.

 

The question is, whose offerings have you tried, and who do you like the best.

[Chris The Bird]

Only tried Miura's and they are absolutely fantastic!!
Would be interested in trying the others... but then again, don't see how anything could beat the Miura'a!!!

[golfasaurus]

Tried all 3. Miura just feels and plays better. My favorite club would be my Miura putter.

[mizguy]

Have hit Miura and Vega only, both excellent clubs. Really a matter of personal opinion of which is better. Miura for me, but not by much.

[appilags]

Haven't hit any Vegas, but my signature will tell you which way I lean between Epon and Miura. Properly fitted, you can't go wrong with either.

[idrive]

It comes down to the model you want/like to play. Or the model you should play.

Being fit properly. They are all outstanding and you really can't go wrong if it looks right to you, sets up correctly and is the right "model" for your game.

My personal choice is Epon. BUT like I said, you can't go wrong with any of them if fit properly.

And yes, I've tried them all.

[My2Dogs]

only tried Miura's but I have heard the Epon's are very nice. I also heard the Vega's and Scratch irons are made at the same forging mill. So why pay the extra $ and get a set of Scratch if you want the feel of a Vega. Like Idrive says go get fit properly and that will make every bit of difference.

[bastey]

I've hit vega and miura. The miuras have a very unique feel, there is nothing else on the market that feels like them IMO.
Vega is also super soft and their irons look even better than miura. Like others said before: You can't go wrong with either!

But Vega wedges are the best money can buy

PS. I'm almost sure, that Scratch irons are not forged by Kyoei.

[exotics]

I currently play the Miura's and they are clearly the best forged irons I have ever hit. I have never tried Epon or Kyoei but Mizzies are a close second to my Miura's.

[prairiegolfer]

Since the KZG forgings are from Kyoei, I feel I got the best of both worlds. Great forging from Japan with a local clubfitter that really knows my swing...KZG evolutions...

[vertigo88]

[quote name='prairiegolfer' post='2119286' date='Dec 11 2009, 07:27 PM']Since the KZG forgings are from Kyoei, I feel I got the best of both worlds. Great forging from Japan with a local clubfitter that really knows my swing...KZG evolutions...[/quote]

Where do you get the information that KZG is from Kyoei?

Come to think of it, Kyoei does several other lines of high end Japanese golf products.

[Scuderia]

I currently play the epon af tours and absolutely love them. I had the Miura blades but the Epons are more forgiving, feel softer and simply look better.

[prairiegolfer]

I've worked for 12 years for ocean container lines. Hyundai for 10 and Maersk for 2..have access to the U.S. Customs manifest system that show all ocean import bills of lading...you can find vendors for everyone...Callaway forged..made in Thailand...KZG..made by Kyoei. Titleist, by O-TA Manufacturing in Taiwan along with some Ping heads. Most golf gloves are in Thailand, hats and other canvas softgoods are from various vendors in China...pretty interesting info. Sometimes requires a bit more digging, like the HQ is one area, but the factory has opened in another country. A number of the ball mfg started in Taiwan and then moved to mainland China.

[arcticreaver]

wait, so titleist iron heads are from taiwan??

[deakanutz]

Yes, most if not all the big OEM's use Taiwan cause of the cost and they are not true Forgings they are basically cast if you see how they are made, they are not stamped from a billet of steel they are poured into a mold.

[prairiegolfer]

For Titleist, the manifest data would show the 'forged' heads are Taiwan and the lower end 'cast' heads are made in mainland China.

If you google 'endo golf', you can see the golf mfg location in Thailand. (Callaway)

I think you can find O-Ta manufacturing..'O-Ta.Precision.com.tw
They are also listed as the vendor in the database for much of the Titleist product.

[Geohans]

So who/where are Mizuno forgings from? And who does Scratch? And Vega?

[Shoutout33]

Now you've gone and done it! LOL! Let people know that their prized forged clubs...aren't really forged ( Or something like that...) If I remember correctly, Keoyi and Mirua are two of a limited number of companies, that do TRUE forgings. Epon does a lot, but because of demand, some of their stuff is done in China. Also, the reason that some forgings FEEL better than others is because of using a softer steel. Now, I'm now expert, just learned this recently myself. I plan on getting some of Guage Designs blades that they have out now, and they are forged in S25C steel at the Keoyi plant. Can't wait!

[gofer]

I'm on my second set of Muira's (the 301s) and absolutley love them. Also real happy with the Yururi wedges. Only other irons that come close for me is my old 1982 Hogan Radials

[arcticreaver]

[quote name='prairiegolfer' post='2143946' date='Dec 25 2009, 07:03 PM']For Titleist, the manifest data would show the 'forged' heads are Taiwan and the lower end 'cast' heads are made in mainland China.

If you google 'endo golf', you can see the golf mfg location in Thailand. (Callaway)

I think you can find O-Ta manufacturing..'O-Ta.Precision.com.tw
They are also listed as the vendor in the database for much of the Titleist product.[/quote]

googled and went on their website and damn, they do make for titleist, honma, mizuno, callaway, nike, cobra, bridgestone, kasco, touredge, odyssey, and macgregor.

[deakanutz]

I don't know if I consider Miura True Forgings, there clubs are two pieces and welded together. I consider a True forging coming from one piece of steel and crafted into an art form.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='My2Dogs' post='2106554' date='Dec 5 2009, 11:40 PM']only tried Miura's but I have heard the Epon's are very nice. I also heard the Vega's and Scratch irons are made at the same forging mill. So why pay the extra $ and get a set of Scratch if you want the feel of a Vega. Like Idrive says go get fit properly and that will make every bit of difference.[/quote]
Kyoei does not forge our irons

[quote name='Geohans' post='2144058' date='Dec 25 2009, 11:39 PM']So who/where are Mizuno forgings from? And who does Scratch? And Vega?[/quote]
Scratch are forged in Ishihara-Shoten in Hemiji Japan

Vega are forged by Kyoei

Mizuno is forged in the Chuo forging house

[Shoutout33]

[quote name='deakanutz' post='2149503' date='Dec 29 2009, 05:51 PM']I don't know if I consider Miura True Forgings, there clubs are two pieces and welded together. I consider a True forging coming from one piece of steel and crafted into an art form.[/quote]


From what I have seen and have been told, a true forging is done when the steel rod is stamped out (usually 4 to 5 times...) to create the head, instead for poured. Doesn't have anything to do with if the hosel is welded or not. For the record, in case no one has figured out yet, Mizuno is the only OEM golf company, that does a true golf forging.

[prairiegolfer]

So, how do you find the Taylormade product that was quietly made by Miura..? I do not see any distinguishing marks, or serial numbers?? Was that a 'tour only' set up with Miura??
I've seen the 300 irons and some of the rac products. Does Miura make some of the Japan issue Taylormade product??

I have seen some videos of the forging company which Mizuno utilizes and I understand this company also makes some precision parts for the bullet trains in Japan. I read that Titleist asked Mizuno for access to the billets of steel for their product and would not 'copy' designs and the Mizuno family passed on the request.
It's not that the 1025 billets are so unique, rather the supplier provides an amazing consistency in the billets. The 7 iron will always have the identical consistency as the 4 iron, set after set, after set, after set...

But lots of people are making great quality product..

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='Shoutout33' post='2150466' date='Dec 30 2009, 09:56 AM'][quote name='deakanutz' post='2149503' date='Dec 29 2009, 05:51 PM']I don't know if I consider Miura True Forgings, there clubs are two pieces and welded together. I consider a True forging coming from one piece of steel and crafted into an art form.[/quote]


From what I have seen and have been told, a true forging is done when the steel rod is stamped out (usually 4 to 5 times...) to create the head, instead for poured. Doesn't have anything to do with if the hosel is welded or not. For the record, in case no one has figured out yet, Mizuno is the only OEM golf company, that does a true golf forging.
[/quote]
Please explain what you mean by Mizuno is the only OEM the makes a "true forging".

Our forging house as well as Endo, Kyoei, and Muira would argue against that

[B Keller]

[quote name='iteachgolf ' post='2151949' date='Dec 30 2009, 10:02 PM']Please explain what you mean by Mizuno is the only OEM the makes a "true forging".

Our forging house as well as Endo, Kyeoi, and Muira would argue against that[/quote]
I didn't post that and don't know what the poster meant, but when I think OEM I think the giant companies like Callaway, Nike, etc.

I know that they offer good products, but operations like Scratch, Miura, Kyoei, Epon, Vega, etc. I consider somewhat a premium company and not your standard OEM.

[iteachgolf]

Endo(epon) forges the irons for Callaway, Bridgestone/Tourstage, Titleist, and other OEMs. Muira has made irons for Taylormade, MacGregor, Titleist and many others. Kyoei makes heads for several OEMs and other companies including Gauge, Yururi, JL, and others. Their lines may not be a major OEM but they make the clubs for all the major OEMs

[OutOfBounds]

DOES THIS NOW MEAN, THAT SCRATCH IRONS & WEDGES ARE NOT FORGED ?

How would one KNOW that IRONS are actually FORGED - okay, okay - besides the FEEL ?

[FairwayFred]

[quote name='OutOfBounds' post='2152541' date='Dec 31 2009, 10:31 AM'] DOES THIS NOW MEAN, THAT SCRATCH IRONS & WEDGES ARE NOT FORGED ?

How would one KNOW that IRONS are actually FORGED - okay, okay - besides the FEEL ?[/quote]

All of our clubs are true forged from 1018 carbon steel in Hemiji Japan except the 8620 wedges which are cast from 8620 carbon steel in China.

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='OutOfBounds' post='2152541' date='Dec 31 2009, 10:31 AM'] DOES THIS NOW MEAN, THAT SCRATCH IRONS & WEDGES ARE NOT FORGED ?

How would one KNOW that IRONS are actually FORGED - okay, okay - besides the FEEL ?[/quote]
Scratch irons and wedges are forged by Ishihara-Shoten in Hemiji Japan, all our clubs say forged 1018 or forged in Japan right on them .

The material for one is a good way to tell. True carbon steel is virtually always forged. The stuff made from 8620 is "form forged" and closer to casting than a true forging. Adams is the only major OEM I believe "forging" 8620 irons currently, Cleveland has in the past. While not truly forged they will still feel pretty good. All other irons made by Major OEMs that say forged are forged.