The Post "Tiger-gate" World

[juansky]

[quote name='sandman' post='2126880' date='Dec 15 2009, 02:40 PM']Just another broken "bubble" situation.

We've had the dot-com bubble, the housing bubble and now the Tiger bubble. All based on too much hype and taking profits based not in reality. We will now see the same results seen in the other bubbles. Value drops and market corrections.

Once again, we find the old adage of "the bigger they are, the harder they fall" coming into play.

It was fun while it lasted and made a lot of people rich, but reality is rearing it's ugly head, once again. [/quote]

I'm scratching my head and trying to figure out how many more bubbles are out there that haven't popped yet?

[mike03a3]

[quote name='clc55' post='2126780' date='Dec 15 2009, 01:57 PM']1. [b]The sport of golf [/b]- I would expect there to be a significant and immediate fall off of viewership/participation by casual golf fans and players. It's kind of like LA and the Tour de France. When he was racing at his peak I remember seeing tons of people out riding bikes in July with his team uniform on. After his retirement I recall their being less and less people out. The casual fan / player will not have an icon (as long as he is off) to latch on to and will lose interest.[/quote]
Agree - most fans are "lightweight" and jump on a superstar's bandwagon, and jump off just as fast. More to the point, the sport of golf has long been perceived (right or wrong) as a "gentleman's sport". This image will certainly be tarnished.

[quote]2. [b]The profession of golf (ie. the PGA tour)[/b] - Sponsors dont want to be tied to more PR problems right now than they already have, (Northern Trust, Wachovia/Wells, etc). If golf gets a bad image from this is could cost the player an unbelievalbe ammount of $$[/quote]
Agree again. The PGA and the PGA pros will probably be the big losers. Sponsors were already bailing because of the economy. This will worsen the situation. Coupled with the loss of the "fans" who were Tiger fans more than golf fans, there will be a lot less money to go around.

[quote]3. [b]The business of golf[/b] - Big fall off. If the casual fan/golfer loses interest than they wont go buy merchandise, play rounds, etc. This coupled with the recession and am american pull back on spending could be the end for already struggling courses and companies.[/quote]
I'm not so sure about this one. I think golfers will continue to play. The Nike and TW brands may take a hit (short term in the case of Nike), but I don't think people PLAY golf because of Tiger. You either golf or you don't. Of course, the courses and companies are already struggling because of the economy, but I really don't think this will make a significant difference.

[quote][b]4. Tiger himself[/b] - Never been a big Tiger guy. He probably comes back wins a major and then everyone moves on. You will here the jokes from time to time but if he cleans up his act and stays out of trouble then all will be forgiven and most will forget. He will never be as big as he was from a marketing perspective and the celebration if he breaks Jack's record wont be as big. I am sure someone will shoot me for saying this but I wouldnt be surprised if this really causes his play to falter. Everyone always talks about how mentally tough he is, I guess we might really find out if he can handle the scrutiny and pressure that his past decisions will now bring.[/quote]
I guess it depends how long he's off. Certainly he will probably never regain the fan and sponsor support he had before November. This may also make it a lot easier for people to play against him if he doesn't have the huge galleries and his aura of invincibility is punctured. But, if he keeps up the fitness and practice, and can come back with enough focus and mental toughness, he may be able to put the pieces together and regain his number one ranking. He'll have to deal with a lot of people on and off the course who want to kick him while he's down.

[quote][b]5. The American perspective on professional athletes - [/b]I think this has been shattered long ago. The public always acts shocked and appauled whenever an athlete gets in trouble with the law and or has a fall from grace. The american public loves this stuff and works at tearing down its athletes as fast as they build them up.[/quote]
Agree 100%

[Redhill]

If Tiger and his wife stay together until after the holidays, as mentioned in the media, and then divorce to be followed by his quick return to the PGA tour how will this be perceived by the golfing world???? We may not be in a "Post Tiger gate world" for very long if this happens.

Also if these rumors about PED use hold up and he is found to have used them, will his records particularly in the Majors have that little asterisk by them like many of the baseball power/homerun hitters have??????

How will his many tour victories be viewed if the PED use is true??????

Poor John Daly got hosed!!!!!!

[sandman]

[quote name='juansky' post='2126900' date='Dec 15 2009, 02:49 PM']I'm scratching my head and trying to figure out how many more bubbles are out there that haven't popped yet?[/quote]

Anywhere you see soaring values, marketing mania and quick money would be a good place to start looking.

Tiger is just indicative of the current value system in this country. Nobody wants to grow the proven steady ways anymore, but looking for any shortcut they can find and are throwing moral values aside to to it.

[Cberry]

Tiger has said multiple times at tournaments that the tour has shown up right after a round for a drug test, i guarentee he gets drug tested the most of any golfer out there even tho they are "random". I think he probaly is addicted to painkillers, and he probaly is in rehab, who knows where the guy is.

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='Cberry' post='2126928' date='Dec 15 2009, 03:01 PM'][b]Tiger has said multiple times at tournaments that the tour has shown up right after a round for a drug test,[/b] i guarentee he gets drug tested the most of any golfer out there even tho they are "random". I think he probaly is addicted to painkillers, and he probaly is in rehab, who knows where the guy is.[/quote]

Really? I did not know that.

In the times article, I think it said that HGH is not tested for much because you need a blood test.

Does the tour test for HGH?

I still think, and appeal to team Tiger, to get in front of the media on this before the weekend.

[Tighthead]

If players lose some endorsement and corporate money, they just might have to play more tour events, which would be welcome. The top guys like Phil and Tiger do loads of private engagements as part of their sponsor deals. It's easy money. Most players have some of these arrangements. If they dry up, play 3-4 more events maybe?

[BuckFlo]

Second, Tiger hasn't pinned any gear (steroids). Anybody that knows anything about the human body and synthetics knows Tiger isn't using any designer steroid. Lastly, HGH taken by itself would yield minuscule results beyond some improved cartilage and soft tissue healing. HGH used standalone wouldn't make tiger any stronger, faster, or "Sunday" recovery time any better than at the body's baseline of HGH secretion. All the idiots who give HGH the stigma as a huge PED are thinking of the bodybuilders who use a concoction of HGH synergistic-ally with exogenous testosterone and exogenous insulin. He may have been laying down randoms left and right, but his golfing feats are attested to him and his abilities. America is so sensitive and wants to kick him while he is down even on the golf side of things. It is utterly preposterous to think if he took 2 IUs of HGH while he was recovering from knee surgery that it catapulted him beyond his already super-human abilities. Hypothetically speaking, if he did take HGH, it was to heal the knee faster where all the hypocritical ba***rds could watch him back playing competitive golf. But, like always, the once fan-boys that watched tiger every Sunday and now claim how disgusted and repelled they are by his behavior will eventually, once again, be hiding behind their TVs silently cheering him on while their wives nag how much they hate him every time they see his face on the screen.

[Smack Daddy]

Based on the report last night of a cover up of a road side tryst in his car, many years ago, with yet another cocktail waitress I grew very, very sad for Tiger. Sounds as if this has been going on forever. Someone above mentioned the possibility that he may be a sociopath. Sadly, if he was doing this long before Elin then that really makes it possible that he has been a long term sociopath.

Never been a fan due to his on course behavior however I really hope he gets professional treatment. Brilliant golfer but the image has all been a sham if only half of what is printed is true. If you want to break Wilt's record then "just do it". Don't be a coward hiding behind money buying people off....use that money to help feed kids not to waste on trollops.

As for the PED's, these types would never show up on a tour drug test. The ones mentioned that can even be detected would require a blood test which the PGA doesn't do at this time. The NFL has been interested in this doc for awhile. The great worry is that his assistant is working with the Feds, likely to get out of charges. Likely also knows everything.

(Whoever had the "Under 1 1/2 hour" in the how long until someone posts more than twice in 24 hours contest won)

[meroj]

In theory, if Tiger stays away from the game for an extended period, the business of the Tour will suffer because of lower TV viewership. However, that effect will not be immedeate. The networks have contracts with the tour that will remain in effect for some time. I am sure there are those on this board that can tell us when the current agreements will expire. But if Tiger comes back in six months, viewership will remain unchanged or go higher because of the curiosity factor.

I am not sold on the fact that the game of golf will suffer. Tiger seems to have brought a larger number of golf VIEWERS to the game, but how many players has he brought to the game. Undoubtedly he has brought some, but he did not double the number of players. I would love to see research on the number of rounds played per year pre Tiger vs. the past five years. I not sure that we would see an appreciable difference. The game of golf is driven by golfers, not Tiger fans, so I have to beleive that the game will not suffer because of Tiger issues; the economy, yes that can and will have a much larger impact than Tiger.

[micha]

Sports always has a way of replacing its stars once they retire, get injured, or self implode like Tiger. Golf has been in a downtrend lately anyways according to all the numbers so we will probably enter a down cycle for golf. Sports like golf and tennis seem to go in cycles of popularity and participation and golf's bubble is beginning to burst.

That being said golf is bigger than Tiger and I'll still watch and play just as much if not more. It will probably weed out those who just liked golf cause it was the cool thing this decade. But its a definite downtrend for the business of golf from the Club Pro giving lessons to the future purses of pro events.

[frozen_rope]

For the sport of golf it's a non issue. Tiger is a professional golfer who has done his job of playing golf , very well.
The recent news only exposes the so called "golf fans" who truly don't care about or know golf. Sadly, some people have such a sorry life themselves they spend their time prying into another persons personal life. Pathetic.

[quote name='smith5606' post='2126735' date='Dec 15 2009, 01:28 PM'][b]Now that "Tiger-gate" has had time to sink into our collective psyches, what do you think its long term impact will be on one or more of the following:

[/b]1. The sport of golf
2. The profession of golf (ie. the PGA tour)
3. The business of golf
4. Tiger himself
5. The American perspective on professional athletes[/quote]

[e-dog9]

I know the HGH thing has been mentioned here already but did anyone catch this nugget from the NY Times.

"Dr. Galea said Mr. Woods was referred to him by the golfer’s agents at Cleveland-based International Management Group, who were alarmed at the slow pace of Mr. Woods’s rehabilitation after knee surgery in June 2008. The doctor said he flew to Orlando, Fla., at least four times to give Mr. Woods the platelet therapy at his home in Windermere, Fla., in February and March of this year. When asked for comment about Mr. Woods’s involvement with Dr. Galea, Mark Steinberg, of I.M.G., responded in an e-mail message: “I would really ask that you guys don’t write this? If Tiger is NOT implicated, and won’t be, let’s please give the kid a break.”"

I love seeing the IMG jerks twist. I can’t believe this idiot put that in an email, and sent it to a reporter!

That they were quoted this way shows that the reporters do not respect these guys. Tough roads ahead!

[micha]

[quote name='sandman' post='2126880' date='Dec 15 2009, 11:40 AM']Just another broken "bubble" situation.

We've had the dot-com bubble, the housing bubble and now the Tiger bubble. All based on too much hype and taking profits based not in reality. We will now see the same results seen in the other bubbles. Value drops and market corrections.

Once again, we find the old adage of "the bigger they are, the harder they fall" coming into play.

It was fun while it lasted and made a lot of people rich, but reality is rearing it's ugly head, once again. [/quote]

Excellent post. I think you could even call it a Golf Bubble. We all remember all those courses built in the past 15 years that now sit empty surronded by foreclosed homes. The bubble had bursted before Tiger gate but this just makes things worse.

[KevCarter]

[quote name='frozen_rope' post='2126975' date='Dec 15 2009, 02:34 PM']For the sport of golf it's a non issue. Tiger is a professional golfer who has done his job of playing golf , very well.
The recent news only exposes the so called "golf fans" who truly don't care about or know golf. Sadly, some people have such a sorry life themselves they spend their time prying into another persons personal life. Pathetic.[/quote]

I agree rope. I also feel the same way about spreading vicious gossip about Arnold Palmer. Neither has a place here.

Kevin

[Tighthead]

[quote name='kevcarter ' post='2126987' date='Dec 15 2009, 12:42 PM'][quote name='frozen_rope' post='2126975' date='Dec 15 2009, 02:34 PM']For the sport of golf it's a non issue. Tiger is a professional golfer who has done his job of playing golf , very well.
The recent news only exposes the so called "golf fans" who truly don't care about or know golf. Sadly, some people have such a sorry life themselves they spend their time prying into another persons personal life. Pathetic.[/quote]

I agree rope. I also feel the same way about spreading vicious gossip about Arnold Palmer. Neither has a place here.

Kevin
[/quote]


Arnold Palmer did not invent the iced tea/lemondade drink and has deceived his fans for years!

[QueenCityGolfer]

[b]1. The sport of golf[/b]

I see it having little to no effect at all. People who play golf because they love the game, will still play no matter what Tiger Woods does. It might effect younger kids, who don't see Tiger Woods on TV around the time they become interested in pursuing a sport or hobby, but that won't apply when he returns to the Tour, and all of this is forgotten.

[b]2. The profession of golf (ie. the PGA tour)
[/b]
I think all of this is [b][i]great[/i][/b] for professional golf long-term. The PGA Tour, The Golf Channel... all they have done since Tiger Woods said "Hello world", is ram his image down our collective throats. What they apparently fail to realize is that Tiger Woods is not everybody's favorite player, nor is he the reason why the vast majority of amateur golfers in the world play the game. Tiger Woods has grown the game, be he is not [b][i]the[/i][/b] game. The ratings drop when Tiger isn't playing, because people don't see validity in big wins when Tiger is not in the field. It's not because everybody watching wants to see him win.

The Tour will lose a ton of money over this scandal, but that's the price they pay for hanging the entire sport on one man's shoulders. Maybe now, the general public will start to look at other players to follow. Maybe now, there might be a chance at developing a post-Tiger product that is actually viable. The way things were going, golf as a commerical/TV product was going to all but die the moment Tiger Woods hung up the spikes.

[b]3. The business of golf[/b]

No effect on the retail side, save for maybe a backlash against Nike. People are still going to play golf, buy clubs, clothes, shoes and everything else we think will help us improve or enjoy the game more.

[b]4. Tiger himself[/b]

Nothing. Tiger Will come back, win the majors he wants, and most of the public will cheer him the whole way there. It's clear he doesn't really appreciate his wife, so even if she leaves, it's not like it's going to destroy his life. He will move on.

[b]5. The American perspective on professional athletes

[/b]I'm pretty sure it was largely negative well before Tiger Woods came along. This is just another tack on the board.

[profsmitty]

[size=3][color="#ff0000"]Please note the topic of this thread. Please note the special rules for this forum, only.
[/color][/size]
[quote name='smith5606' post='2126735' date='Dec 15 2009, 12:28 PM'][b]Now that "Tiger-gate" has had time to sink into our collective psyches, what do you think its long term impact will be on one or more of the following:

[/b]1. The sport of golf
2. The profession of golf (ie. the PGA tour)
3. The business of golf
4. Tiger himself
5. The American perspective on professional athletes

[b][u]Rules for this forum only

[/u][/b]1. Limit your comments to one or more of the questions above, only.
2. Please limit your responses to no more than 2 posts in a 24 hour period
3. No "stacking" of posts
4. No links to or copiy/pastes from outside media or websites
5. All other general forum rules will be strictly enforced, no exceptions
6. Be thoughtful and incisive.

[b][u]Have fun.[/u][/b][/quote]

[bogeyk]

It will be interesting to see if Nike moves away from naming products after Tiger(victory red). I can't see them dumping him, but I can see them moving away from using his logo on product. Given the time of year I could see a short term drop with some people not buying Nike gear for Christmas. There are many aunts, uncles, grandparents, etc.. who buy golf products not based on quality, but rather on the advertising and perceived popularity(Tiger or Phil uses it) of the product.

[fats]

[quote name='hoganfan924' post='2126742' date='Dec 15 2009, 01:33 PM']I think that there is a possibility that his infidelity may just be the tip of the iceberg and other character related issues may be revealing in the coming weeks/months. So "Tiger-gate" might just be getting started.[/quote]


Gheez...I agree...this thing is starting to explode bigtime with this Canadian doctor being questioned by the FBI...I really hope this part of it is bogus as it will really hurt the PGA Tour. There is no letup in sight.

[TML]

of all the sponsors, Nike is the only one that built products based around Tiger Woods the brand. I doubt they will change anything and will just hope he gets back to golf sooner rather than later.

[thenation48]

i think the game will suffer. sponsors pull out, tv contract is smaller, purses smaller and so on. bad bad bad. SHAME ON YOU TIGER. SHAME

[Tighthead]

[quote name='TML' post='2127014' date='Dec 15 2009, 01:01 PM']of all the sponsors, Nike is the only one that built products based around Tiger Woods the brand. I doubt they will change anything and will just hope he gets back to golf sooner rather than later.[/quote]

Nike is also the one that I would argue is most linked to his performance and dominance. The non-sports sponsors market his larger image - hard work, focus, committment, etc.

No matter what he does in person (short of the old line about a dead girl or a live boy), people will always want to use his clubs and balls. His watch isn't such a big part of his performance, just jis image.

[hoganfan924]

Fats,

I've wondered for a while if the falling out with Butch and Fluff might have had something to do with what they perceived as character issues. Maybe they weren't willing to be "enablers" or yes men. Seems like Tiger surrounded himself with those types. Any insights?

[TML]

I think in Fluff's case, Tiger was unhappy that he was doing interviews and telling the public how much money Tiger pays. For Butch, he has always been vocal about John Daly cleaning himself up and has never held his opinion. So, yeah, you could be right.

[scotchblade]

[quote name='QueenCityGolfer' post='2126998' date='Dec 15 2009, 04:50 PM'][b]...but that won't apply when he returns to the Tour, and all of this is forgotten.[/b][/quote]

I'm not so sure this mess will ever be forgotten, time will tell. People bring up Sergio spitting in the cup all the time and vow to never forgive him.

[arcticreaver]

tiger him self is a business and unfortunately for nike, they've basically arrived in the golf industry with tiger woods. he's a brand name for them like the air jordans from michael jordan. nike CAN'T just part ways, like they did with Kobe because with Kobe, they slapped a shoe and some shoe commercials, with tiger, he's basically a one man corporation that just so happens to represent Nike Golf.

for the sport, he will impact everything from ratings to purses. face it, he's the face of golf and now that face is tainted and blotched with sin. golf needs him badly, especially in a time like this but the sport will move on with or without him.

as a person, he failed in every aspect, as a person, a role model, a husband, and as a father. he needs to fix these issues before he even thinks about golf, my personal opinion.

[Tighthead]

[quote name='hoganfan924' post='2127032' date='Dec 15 2009, 01:09 PM']Fats,

I've wondered for a while if the falling out with Butch and Fluff might have had something to do with what they perceived as character issues. Maybe they weren't willing to be "enablers" or yes men. Seems like Tiger surrounded himself with those types. Any insights?[/quote]
Tiger was single back then. I think they just traded on their Tiger connections too much. Butch was everywhere for awhile.

[redfirebird08]

Yeah, Butch had a lot of endorsements that bragged about his association with Woods front and center. He was making quite a bit of money on the side just from Woods' name. Apparently he didn't ask for Woods' permission because from what I remember reading, this was the main reason Woods fired him.

[golfproj71]

It all comes down to this. If anyone has already said what I feel, then I apologize.

IMO.

We already know about the secret lifestyle with the many woman. Now the possibility of using HGH.
[b]
Does anybody in this thread really thinks that it will affect him?

I don't think it will. He'll come back and win majors and high profile events like nothing ever happened.

People say he is not bigger than the game. But when you think about it, he is bigger![/b]I do not condone what he has done. I truly believe that things will get worse for him before they get better.

People. He is above everyone else. They will bow to him and suck up to him because of what he is.

Nothing will change.

I used to respect him as a golfer, not a person. Now he is just another Phony.

And people accuse Phil for being a Phony. At least he aknowledges people when they say hello to him.