Don't Understand Goydos 59 hype

[Dizz]

[quote name='OldSkoolTexan' date='10 July 2010 - 05:35 PM' timestamp='1278797720' post='2567337']
[quote name='tdk8180' date='10 July 2010 - 04:19 PM' timestamp='1278796783' post='2567321']
Par is relative. If you want to make 2 more Par 4's into Par 5's, and say Goydos made 2 eagles instead of 2 birdies, which then makes him (-14), on a Par 73 course, then does that make it the best 59 ever. No. It doesn't.

A birdie on a 457 yd par 4, is a lesser eagle if it's classified as a Par 5.
[/quote]

<br>Ok Glen Gary why WOULDNT the -14 be better? The score relative to par IS the point. If not, then let's call ryo's 58 the greatest professional round in the history of golf. <br><br>Even though this tourney is OBVIOUSLY some crazy birdie-fest, the course length is not the main issue. Most purists are having a problem with the lift clean place.
[/quote]

So a 59 at Oakmont at -11 isn't as good as a 59 at TPC Deere Run since its -12? Makes sense.

[Rohlio]

[quote name='Dizz' date='10 July 2010 - 06:06 PM' timestamp='1278799561' post='2567378']


So a 59 at Oakmont at -11 isn't as good as a 59 at TPC Deere Run since its -12? Makes sense.
[/quote]

Exactly right Dizz...comparing the score relative to par is silly because they are different courses entirely. By OldSchoolTexan's reasoning. A -11 59 at Pebble Beach a few weeks back is not up to snuff with the -12 59 that Goydos just shot. No one in their right mind could think this.

You can't compare apples (par at one course) to oranges (par at a completely different course).

59 is 59.

Our club championship was won at 211 strokes this year...who cares what par was...the guy who shot 211 had less strokes than the guy who shot 212.

[tdk8180]

Well, I shot a 59. It was a course that was 5,700 yds. Every Par 4 was very short, The Par 5's were regular Par 4's, and the Par 3's were the only respectable holes out there, distance wise. Par was 72, but the course rating was 65. Whoa! So basically, that means I was really only about -6 under for the day anyway.

Par is relative and is a subjective number. A 59 on a Par 70, is 11 under par. A 59 on a Par 72 is -13 under par. So the Par 72 could have 2 weak, eagleable Par 5's. IF that's the case, the course rating will be closer to 70, which is a better indicator of score, rather than the Par number itself.

Now, if the course has an extra Par 3, which takes the number of par down one or two, then I find it harder to birdie a Par 3, rather than birdie a short Par 5, that should be a Par 4 anyway.

[1puttwoods]

[quote name='Reidman' date='09 July 2010 - 08:28 PM' timestamp='1278725328' post='2565937']
Am I the only one wondering about the hype of Goydos' 59 yesterday? Its really a (-12), which translates to a 60 on a par 72 course. And you don't see anyone on the PGA Tour writing 60 on their ball, and taking pictures....since its been done many times.

I'll have to research Duval's 59...but would bet par was 72 that day....which makes a (-13). Fairly certain Annika's was on a Par 72 course also.

What you guys think.....am I in the minority?
[/quote]
Yes dude you are in the minority. It is no less an accomplishment on a par 71 or a par 70 for that matter. A 59 is a 59. In fact on a 70 or 71 it might be harder to shoot 59 because of the lack of 4 par 5's.

Only 3 dudes have pulled a 59 off on tour before Goydos, and you're trying to down play his accomplishment.

[pinhigh27]

I wish I was a good enough player, to question whether or not I feel a 59 is worthy of an insane amount of hype.

[Eazy-E]

[quote name='tbowles411' date='10 July 2010 - 01:05 AM' timestamp='1278738326' post='2566329']
You are in the minority. You still have to hit the shots and you still have to putt the ball. A 59 is a 59, no matter how it's done. To use the baseball analagy...a couple of weeks ago, there was a no-hitter. The guy threw 149 pitches, had 7 walks and hit a batter, but didn't allow a hit. So is it really a no-hitter?
[/quote]

yes its a no hitter/shutout but its not a (perfect game)

[OldSkoolTexan]

[quote name='Rohlio' date='10 July 2010 - 05:16 PM' timestamp='1278800189' post='2567398']
[quote name='Dizz' date='10 July 2010 - 06:06 PM' timestamp='1278799561' post='2567378']
So a 59 at Oakmont at -11 isn't as good as a 59 at TPC Deere Run since its -12? Makes sense.
[/quote]

Exactly right Dizz...comparing the score relative to par is silly because they are different courses entirely. By OldSchoolTexan's reasoning. A -11 59 at Pebble Beach a few weeks back is not up to snuff with the -12 59 that Goydos just shot. No one in their right mind could think this.

You can't compare apples (par at one course) to oranges (par at a completely different course).

59 is 59.

Our club championship was won at 211 strokes this year...who cares what par was...the guy who shot 211 had less strokes than the guy who shot 212.
[/quote]

<br>Well, if we want to get all into course difficulty and everything, then a 62 at Augusta matches a 59 at deer run. Im pretty sure Augusta is rated 3 strokes harder than Deer Run but I may be wrong. That's why I was trying to just compare scores relative to par NOT match course for course if you paid attention. <br><br>Who won your club championship doesnt really apply since we're talking 59s from different courses and different time frames. Now if your club had two courses at par 71 & 72, THEN two guys shot 70, the guy who shot 70 on the par 72 track would win. Like I was explaining.....

[iteachgolf]

[quote name='tdk8180' date='10 July 2010 - 04:53 PM' timestamp='1278806002' post='2567559']
Well, I shot a 59. It was a course that was 5,700 yds. Every Par 4 was very short, The Par 5's were regular Par 4's, and the Par 3's were the only respectable holes out there, distance wise. Par was 72, but the course rating was 65. Whoa! So basically, that means I was really only about -6 under for the day anyway.

Par is relative and is a subjective number. A 59 on a Par 70, is 11 under par. A 59 on a Par 72 is -13 under par. So the Par 72 could have 2 weak, eagleable Par 5's. IF that's the case, the course rating will be closer to 70, which is a better indicator of score, rather than the Par number itself.

Now, if the course has an extra Par 3, which takes the number of par down one or two, then I find it harder to birdie a Par 3, rather than birdie a short Par 5, that should be a Par 4 anyway.
[/quote]

I like this. I forgot I shot 57 from the ladies tees once in college. Used to play the ladies tees once a week as a drill to get used to shooting birdies. I never even consider it a legit round and don't count it as my lowest round. I don't think it matters what the par of the course is but the lift clean in place is the only * issue I have.

[Jameson465]

anyone who doubts the number has never shot a number.........

[OldSkoolTexan]

[quote name='iteachgolf' date='10 July 2010 - 10:26 PM' timestamp='1278818802' post='2567947']
[quote name='tdk8180' date='10 July 2010 - 04:53 PM' timestamp='1278806002' post='2567559']
Well, I shot a 59. It was a course that was 5,700 yds. Every Par 4 was very short, The Par 5's were regular Par 4's, and the Par 3's were the only respectable holes out there, distance wise. Par was 72, but the course rating was 65. Whoa! So basically, that means I was really only about -6 under for the day anyway.

Par is relative and is a subjective number. A 59 on a Par 70, is 11 under par. A 59 on a Par 72 is -13 under par. So the Par 72 could have 2 weak, eagleable Par 5's. IF that's the case, the course rating will be closer to 70, which is a better indicator of score, rather than the Par number itself.

Now, if the course has an extra Par 3, which takes the number of par down one or two, then I find it harder to birdie a Par 3, rather than birdie a short Par 5, that should be a Par 4 anyway.
[/quote]

I like this. I forgot I shot 57 from the ladies tees once in college. Used to play the ladies tees once a week as a drill to get used to shooting birdies. I never even consider it a legit round and don't count it as my lowest round. I don't think it matters what the par of the course is but the lift clean in place is the only * issue I have.
[/quote]

<br>The lift clean in place issue was the only issue that I had as well to support the * but then the "debate" got started and I do like a good debate.<br><br>I had a buddy that shot a 59 BUT from the white tees while playing with his sponsors. I called him Mr 59 after that but I KNOW he wishes it had been from the back. I dont know if they would even count it as a course record unless its from the back. A course record on a resume' never hurts when looking for new sponsorship.

[mnieman]

[quote name='Bobbers' date='10 July 2010 - 06:11 AM' timestamp='1278771104' post='2566694']

Being from Wisconsin and a Stricker fan, I cannot wait for today's round, two truly nice guys playing for the win, perfecto!
[/quote]

You will probably enjoy this video I took at pebble beach at the US Open. Justin Leonard introduces Stricker on the tee and makes fun of him haha. It was pretty good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6XxPWn5ORo

[Tighthead]

[quote name='T-Gates' date='10 July 2010 - 07:00 AM' timestamp='1278770408' post='2566670']
YGBSM.

It's a friggin' 59 folks! Did any of you actually watch the footage of it? Who cares if they played the ball up? He wasn't hitting it stiff, he was making puts from everywhere.

He shot a 59 on a level that I would say 99% of the people on this website could only dream of playing on.

Lets take a poll of how many people who are belittling his accomplishment have had a 12 bidie, bogeyless round...and we're not talking a scramble.....

*crickets*
[/quote]

Please cite one post where someone here has claimed a 12 birdie, bogey free round? I don't think anyone here is claiming to be a superior player.

It is an amazing accomplishment, but playing the ball up just isn't really golf to me. I'm not holding that against Goydos, but if playing the ball up was no advantage, they wouldn't do it.

[LottaBalata]

He was putting lights out, less than 20. He got the ball in the cup 18 times in a total of 59 strokes. I don't even understand why there's a discussion on something that's only happened 4 freakin' times. . .E V E R

[justhittheshot]

[quote name='steveh1591' date='10 July 2010 - 04:04 AM' timestamp='1278752653' post='2566451']
59 on a par 71 >>>>>> 60 on a par 72
[/quote]

Yea, and if its a par 80 he shot 68... what's the point. It took 59 strokes to get down from 7200+ yards. It wasn't a 42 at a par three course. I think the biggest issue about the 59 was that Stricker shot 60 on the same day. Almost unheard of. Unless you have shot 59 then leave PG alone and take yourself to the range.

[OldSkoolTexan]

[quote name='justhittheshot' date='10 July 2010 - 11:23 PM' timestamp='1278822235' post='2568036']
[quote name='steveh1591' date='10 July 2010 - 04:04 AM' timestamp='1278752653' post='2566451']
59 on a par 71 >>>>>> 60 on a par 72
[/quote]

Yea, and if its a par 80 he shot 68... what's the point. It took 59 strokes to get down from 7200+ yards. It wasn't a 42 at a par three course. I think the biggest issue about the 59 was that Stricker shot 60 on the same day. Almost unheard of. [b]Unless you have shot 59 then leave PG alone and take yourself to the range. [/b]
[/quote]
<br>Going by this rule we couldnt discuss atleast 90% of what we discuss here on WRX. Hell, Tiger, Nicklaus, Mickelson, etc., all couldnt have anything to say let alone the WRX collective. As Kramer would say: That's just kooky talk.

[502 to Right]

Geiberger's 59 was playing lift, clean & place. Who has placed an asterisk next to his round?

That's right--no one.

[OldSkoolTexan]

Geiberger's 59 was playing lift, clean & place. Who has placed an asterisk next to his round?

 

That's right--no one.

 

<br>Noone is going to ACTUALLY put an asterisk. If his round was shot this year, then I guess we would. Ok, we're down to Duval, Frazar(Q school) and whoever the other guy is for true, played the ball down 59s. Oh and ryo with a 58 which makes him better than these guys......

[aussiehack]

Anyone adding an asterik or putting down a 59 shot on a PGA Tour course during an event is quite frankly a tool. A commentator put it best in todays coverage when he said that put players 120 yds out on every hole and none will shoot a 59. You still need to hit a lot of greens close to the hole and then hole a heap of putts. Its not a short course, scoring is very good granted, but a 59 is a huge acheivement regardless of par for the course.

[teejaywhy]

[quote name='Reidman' date='09 July 2010 - 06:28 PM' timestamp='1278725328' post='2565937']
Am I the only one wondering about the hype of Goydos' 59 yesterday? Its really a (-12), which translates to a 60 on a par 72 course. And you don't see anyone on the PGA Tour writing 60 on their ball, and taking pictures....since its been done many times.

I'll have to research Duval's 59...but would bet par was 72 that day....which makes a (-13). Fairly certain Annika's was on a Par 72 course also.

What you guys think.....am I in the minority?
[/quote]

I think all the PGA Tour guys wish they were as awesome as you.

[teejaywhy]

[quote name='justhittheshot' date='10 July 2010 - 09:23 PM' timestamp='1278822235' post='2568036']
[quote name='steveh1591' date='10 July 2010 - 04:04 AM' timestamp='1278752653' post='2566451']
59 on a par 71 >>>>>> 60 on a par 72
[/quote]

Yea, and if its a par 80 he shot 68... what's the point.

[/quote]

Uh... wrong. If the par was 72, he shot 59. If the par was 80, he shot 59.

A golf score is achieved by the number of strokes taken.

Do any of you guys actually PLAY golf?

[justhittheshot]

[quote name='OldSkoolTexan' date='10 July 2010 - 11:44 PM' timestamp='1278823464' post='2568064']
[quote name='justhittheshot' date='10 July 2010 - 11:23 PM' timestamp='1278822235' post='2568036']
[quote name='steveh1591' date='10 July 2010 - 04:04 AM' timestamp='1278752653' post='2566451']
59 on a par 71 >>>>>> 60 on a par 72
[/quote]

Yea, and if its a par 80 he shot 68... what's the point. It took 59 strokes to get down from 7200+ yards. It wasn't a 42 at a par three course. I think the biggest issue about the 59 was that Stricker shot 60 on the same day. Almost unheard of. [b]Unless you have shot 59 then leave PG alone and take yourself to the range. [/b]
[/quote]
<br>Going by this rule we couldnt discuss atleast 90% of what we discuss here on WRX. Hell, Tiger, Nicklaus, Mickelson, etc., all couldnt have anything to say let alone the WRX collective. As Kramer would say: That's just kooky talk.


[/quote]

No one said you can't discuss it.... get of PG's nuts about it. That's what it says. Discuss what you would like, don't try to tear down a 59 because it was being played with lift clean and place. THAT'S JUST KOOKY TALK! Attempting to devalue a 59.

[justhittheshot]

[quote name='tjy355' date='11 July 2010 - 08:29 AM' timestamp='1278854954' post='2568393']
[quote name='justhittheshot' date='10 July 2010 - 09:23 PM' timestamp='1278822235' post='2568036']
[quote name='steveh1591' date='10 July 2010 - 04:04 AM' timestamp='1278752653' post='2566451']
59 on a par 71 >>>>>> 60 on a par 72
[/quote]

Yea, and if its a par 80 he shot 68... what's the point.

[/quote]

Uh... wrong. If the par was 72, he shot 59. If the par was 80, he shot 59.

A golf score is achieved by the number of strokes taken.

Do any of you guys actually PLAY golf?
[/quote]


Seriously? It was relative to par. People have been trying to say that 59 on a par 72 is better than a 59 on a par 71 because one is -13 and the other is -12. That was the point.

[nvr stsfd]

Geiberger's 59 was playing lift, clean & place. Who has placed an asterisk next to his round?

 

That's right--no one.

 

<br>Noone is going to ACTUALLY put an asterisk. If his round was shot this year, then I guess we would. Ok, we're down to Duval, Frazar(Q school) and whoever the other guy is for true, played the ball down 59s. Oh and ryo with a 58 which makes him better than these guys......

 

I believe the other guy is Chip Beck.

[MBA-J]

Geiberger's 59 was playing lift, clean & place. Who has placed an asterisk next to his round?

 

That's right--no one.

 

<br>Noone is going to ACTUALLY put an asterisk. If his round was shot this year, then I guess we would. Ok, we're down to Duval, Frazar(Q school) and whoever the other guy is for true, played the ball down 59s. Oh and ryo with a 58 which makes him better than these guys......

 

I believe the other guy is Chip Beck.

 

I believe that Shigeki Maruyama shot 58 during a US Open qualifying round as well. I know that it wasn't an official event, but that's an awesome achievement.

[Reidman]

Well....I certainly have gained some insight from this post. I am certainly not a Goydos hater....

I really started the post to help evaluate my personal best....I shot a 68 on a Par 72 this year....and wondering if it was really better than a 68 I shot last year on a Par 71.

So my old best of (-3) on Par 71 is really better than my new best of (-4) on Par 72...because I had one less Par 5? Doesn't seem to add up.

Apples to apples....-4 just sounds like a better round than -3

[helopil8]

Cool thread. I agee with oldskool and others, I can shoot a lower score when lift clean and place is in effect. That being said, a record tying tournament 59 is a suberb round of golf that is the envy of all. Now I'm getting ready to watch Stricker do one better, break the low 72 hole record.

[pga43]

[quote name='helopil8' date='11 July 2010 - 12:56 PM' timestamp='1278867387' post='2568624']
Cool thread. I agee with oldskool and others, [b]I can shoot a lower score when lift clean and place is in effect.[/b] That being said, a record tying tournament 59 is a suberb round of golf that is the envy of all. Now I'm getting ready to watch Stricker do one better, break the low 72 hole record.
[/quote]


That may be because most golf courses/players play lift, clean and place thru the green (to include the rough). The Tour only allows LCP in the fairway. Try it some time by only improving your lie in the fairway and see just how much lower your score is. Not moving the ball in the rough is going to make a huge difference.


Greg

[teejaywhy]

[quote name='Reidman' date='11 July 2010 - 09:08 AM' timestamp='1278864493' post='2568570']
Well....I certainly have gained some insight from this post. I am certainly not a Goydos hater....

I really started the post to help evaluate my personal best....I shot a 68 on a Par 72 this year....and wondering if it was really better than a 68 I shot last year on a Par 71.

So my old best of (-3) on Par 71 is really better than my new best of (-4) on Par 72...because I had one less Par 5? Doesn't seem to add up.

Apples to apples....-4 just sounds like a better round than -3
[/quote]


You should calculate your differential. (Score - course rating) * 113/slope. That would give you a better benchmark of how good your score is.

Par is meaningless. Just a number.

[pga43]

Here's a question -

I've seen golf courses where a par 4 for men is a par 5 for women. If you were playing a match with a women player and you made 4 and she made 5 would the hole be halved with pars or would your 4 beat her 5?


Greg

[MBA-J]

[quote name='pga43' date='11 July 2010 - 02:39 PM' timestamp='1278873560' post='2568774']
Here's a question -

I've seen golf courses where a par 4 for men is a par 5 for women. If you were playing a match with a women player and you made 4 and she made 5 would the hole be halved with pars or would your 4 beat her 5?


Greg
[/quote]

The hole is halved.