Drugs in LD

[ekin]

Tabu....but just asking a Q

Do u guys think there is drug use in LD comps??
There is drug use in so many sports now. Is it stupid to ask that Q in a sport where its all about power and speed?

[T-Rex]

[quote name='ekin' timestamp='1282070198' post='2645188']
Do u guys think there is drug use in LD comps??
There is drug use in so many sports now. Is it stupid to ask that Q in a sport where its all about power and speed?
[/quote]

It's not a stupid question to ask but other than alcohol at non-LDA events, I don't think so. The LDA now tests and the fact that the designer drugs far out way the prize money it wouldn't be worth it. Most LDers come from other sports and already have a workout routine that fits their body type.

[BPavlet]

They are as prevalent in LD as they are in any other sport, whether professional or amateur. Prize money has nothing to do with it, pride has everything to do with it. Yes we are tested, but there are always ways around that.

[Evolved]

The word you wanted is taboo.

[KiloYankee]

I have heard stories.

I won't tell them but. Does JS look like he does drugs?

The military division you know doesn't use drugs and look what numbers the top guys there post.

[Insidious2]

[quote name='ekin' timestamp='1282070198' post='2645188']
Do u guys think there is drug use in LD comps??
There is drug use in so many sports now. Is it stupid to ask that Q in a sport where its all about power and speed?
[/quote]

Absolutely. There are certain steroids you can buy online, take for 3-4 weeks and expect to gain AT LEAST 10 pounds. They'll be out of your system shortly after you stop using them. How do you think college football players get away with it?.....Summer months...

[hoganfan924]

Frankly, I don't care what they take. Drug testing in the LDA is like drug testing the WWE. HGH and many anabolic steroids are not illegal and are available with a prescription. BTW, the most famous LD'r of all time is a pharmacist. But even the most jacked up gorillas still can't beat a 160 lb. Sadlowski.

[BPavlet]

He's 170

[Insidious2]

Steroids don't just make you a jacked up gorilla. Cyclists use steroids and most of them don't top 150#

[KiloYankee]

Well I don't use them, and we will see how I do this year.

[the700level]

[quote name='Rugger' timestamp='1282264096' post='2650101']
Steroids don't just make you a jacked up gorilla. Cyclists use steroids and most of them don't top 150#
[/quote]

get outta here cyclists don't use anabolics. they are usually accused of "blood doping" which is basically taking substances such as EPO or clen to increase oxygen to the bloodstream.

I'm all for the argument that steroids will not help a LD competition, in my opinion muscle strength =/= distance. flexbility, torque, etc. do. look at bubba watson - i don't think he could bench 105lbs, and he can crush the ball 340 yards

[all4's]

[quote name='KiloYankee' timestamp='1282189248' post='2648421']
I have heard stories.

I won't tell them but. Does JS look like he does drugs?

The military division you know doesn't use drugs and look what numbers the top guys there post.
[/quote]

Yes he does a little. Anymore it is tough to tell if someone uses them properly. Only those who abuse are easy to spot.

There lots and lots of types to choose from, that do different things. I'm sure like any other sport there will be those who see what they can get away with.

[justinp766]

[quote name='KiloYankee' timestamp='1282189248' post='2648421']
I have heard stories.

I won't tell them but. Does JS look like he does drugs?

The military division you know doesn't use drugs and look what numbers the top guys there post.
[/quote]

Having been in the military for 4 years , I can definitely say they do not test your for PE drugs unless you punch a superior officer in the face and yell out IM ON ROIDS!!!!

[andrewchrisitan]

LOL have you seen Zuback's roid gut, and those veins he has, the guys had like 5 hernias, a lot more than you think are on test, growth, etc.

[andrewchrisitan]

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1282231907' post='2649052']
Frankly, I don't care what they take. Drug testing in the LDA is like drug testing the WWE. HGH and many anabolic steroids are not illegal and are available with a prescription. BTW, the most famous LD'r of all time is a pharmacist. But even the most jacked up gorillas still can't beat a 160 lb. Sadlowski.
[/quote]


Funny story actually, I was working at a range about 4 yrs ago, a long drive guy used to come at night and I used to overhear stories like this, and one of the stories ended with "yeah he's, a pharmacist, what do you think"

[boxerjoe2011]

anyone that knows anything about the golf swing knows that a large muscle mass isn't necessary to hit the ball long, have you seen Jamie? I think Bubba Watson's chest is actually concave. I find the whole concept of testing for drugs in golf completely pointless. I am 26 years old and I hit it longer when I was in high school when I was 20 pounds lighter.

[Yepyukon]

I heard Jack Hamm uses Zolex but had to quit the LDA because every time he shot up, he yelled "POW" and was easily caught.

[SpinMill75]

I thought yelling "POW" had the same overpowering effect that roids gives?

[justinp766]

[quote name='boxerjoe2011' timestamp='1300332923' post='3062767']
anyone that knows anything about the golf swing knows that a large muscle mass isn't necessary to hit the ball long, have you seen Jamie? I think Bubba Watson's chest is actually concave. I find the whole concept of testing for drugs in golf completely pointless. I am 26 years old and I hit it longer when I was in high school when I was 20 pounds lighter.
[/quote]

Its not that fact that large muscle mass helps a swing; Its a fact that high test levels and other PED's help one create a faster swing speed.

[boxerjoe2011]

[quote name='justinp766' timestamp='1300375915' post='3063808']
[quote name='boxerjoe2011' timestamp='1300332923' post='3062767']
anyone that knows anything about the golf swing knows that a large muscle mass isn't necessary to hit the ball long, have you seen Jamie? I think Bubba Watson's chest is actually concave. I find the whole concept of testing for drugs in golf completely pointless. I am 26 years old and I hit it longer when I was in high school when I was 20 pounds lighter.
[/quote]

Its not that fact that large muscle mass helps a swing; Its a fact that high test levels and other PED's help one create a faster swing speed.
[/quote]



I would challenge you to explain how ligaments and tendons become stronger and how one would become more flexible under steroid use to create a faster swing speed. Like I said, I am stronger now, but swing slower and I am sure as hell not trying to. In fact, connective tissue actually breaks down with extended use of PED's. It makes you wonder about Tiger's knee. In an anonymous poll, over 60% of tour players said they didn't necessarily think he was using PED's, but that something wasn't quite right there.

[justinp766]

Study before you start making assumptions about steroids and tendons.

Actually what steroids do is increase protein synthesis which results in extremely fast hypertrophy.
When you overload your tendons and ligaments trying to create hypertrophy they have no choice but to grow stronger to keep up with the overloading on your muscles.
But most of the time your hypertrophy would beat the tendons+ligaments getting stronger in a race and then thats where an injury might occur.
Your probally not doing power cleans or heavy barbell rows. You need explosive strength to swing faster.
So get off the smith machine and into a power rack.

Look at this video of this long driver,
This kid was a bit skinnier in the first video and he figured he should bulk up to increase his swing speed.
So he bulked up to 220 from 170 I believe
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93_XSkymDzc&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.c...feature=related[/url] <-------{ Him at 170 lbs.
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVYSxlByvkk&feature=related"]
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related[/url] <----------{ Same kid at 220 lbs. Different angle to really show the speed in this swing.

[boxerjoe2011]

[quote name='justinp766' timestamp='1300405473' post='3065230']
Study before you start making assumptions about steroids and tendons.

Actually what steroids do is increase protein synthesis which results in extremely fast hypertrophy.
When you overload your tendons and ligaments trying to create hypertrophy they have no choice but to grow stronger to keep up with the overloading on your muscles.
But most of the time your hypertrophy would beat the tendons+ligaments getting stronger in a race and then thats where an injury might occur.
Your probally not doing power cleans or heavy barbell rows. You need explosive strength to swing faster.
So get off the smith machine and into a power rack.

Look at this video of this long driver,
This kid was a bit skinnier in the first video and he figured he should bulk up to increase his swing speed.
So he bulked up to 220 from 170 I believe
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93_XSkymDzc&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.c...feature=related[/url] <-------{ Him at 170 lbs.
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVYSxlByvkk&feature=related"]
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related[/url] <----------{ Same kid at 220 lbs. Different angle to really show the speed in this swing.
[/quote]


Are you arguing about 5-10 mph increases in swing speed? Besides, as you grow large, you can't produce as large of a turn which decreases clubhead speed. These videos you posted don't really help your argument either, I have seen better swings at a playground. I hope those aren't videos of yourself haha

[justinp766]

[quote name='boxerjoe2011' timestamp='1300478045' post='3067281']
[quote name='justinp766' timestamp='1300405473' post='3065230']
Study before you start making assumptions about steroids and tendons.

Actually what steroids do is increase protein synthesis which results in extremely fast hypertrophy.
When you overload your tendons and ligaments trying to create hypertrophy they have no choice but to grow stronger to keep up with the overloading on your muscles.
But most of the time your hypertrophy would beat the tendons+ligaments getting stronger in a race and then thats where an injury might occur.
Your probally not doing power cleans or heavy barbell rows. You need explosive strength to swing faster.
So get off the smith machine and into a power rack.

Look at this video of this long driver,
This kid was a bit skinnier in the first video and he figured he should bulk up to increase his swing speed.
So he bulked up to 220 from 170 I believe
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93_XSkymDzc&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.c...feature=related[/url] <-------{ Him at 170 lbs.
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVYSxlByvkk&feature=related"]
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related[/url] <----------{ Same kid at 220 lbs. Different angle to really show the speed in this swing.
[/quote]


Are you arguing about 5-10 mph increases in swing speed? Besides, as you grow large, you can't produce as large of a turn which decreases clubhead speed. These videos you posted don't really help your argument either, I have seen better swings at a playground. I hope those aren't videos of yourself haha


[/quote]

The kid increased his overall distance by 50-60 yards. So he put on about 50 lbs , and he probally did it without roids, so it 1/3 of the 50 lbs was mostly muscle mass while the 2/3 was fat. The kid put on 16-17 lbs of muscle. And also increased his strength dramatically in all three of the compound movements. You are absolutely crazy to think that this increase in muscle mass , strength did not help him achieve a faster swing with more torque.

[cavemeister]

Being big has nothing to do with making a turn. Jason Zuback made sure he stretched like crazy. He's super flexible and super strong.
Look at roids in baseball--you hit the ball farther.
Flexibility and speed exercises and roids(strength) will make you hit the ball farther.
[quote name='boxerjoe2011' timestamp='1300478045' post='3067281']
[quote name='justinp766' timestamp='1300405473' post='3065230']
Study before you start making assumptions about steroids and tendons.

Actually what steroids do is increase protein synthesis which results in extremely fast hypertrophy.
When you overload your tendons and ligaments trying to create hypertrophy they have no choice but to grow stronger to keep up with the overloading on your muscles.
But most of the time your hypertrophy would beat the tendons+ligaments getting stronger in a race and then thats where an injury might occur.
Your probally not doing power cleans or heavy barbell rows. You need explosive strength to swing faster.
So get off the smith machine and into a power rack.

Look at this video of this long driver,
This kid was a bit skinnier in the first video and he figured he should bulk up to increase his swing speed.
So he bulked up to 220 from 170 I believe
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93_XSkymDzc&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.c...feature=related[/url] <-------{ Him at 170 lbs.
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVYSxlByvkk&feature=related"]
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related[/url] <----------{ Same kid at 220 lbs. Different angle to really show the speed in this swing.
[/quote]


Are you arguing about 5-10 mph increases in swing speed? Besides, as you grow large, you can't produce as large of a turn which decreases clubhead speed. These videos you posted don't really help your argument either, I have seen better swings at a playground. I hope those aren't videos of yourself haha


[/quote]

[justinp766]

[quote name='cavemeister' timestamp='1300517577' post='3068603']
Being big has nothing to do with making a turn. Jason Zuback made sure he stretched like crazy. He's super flexible and super strong.
Look at roids in baseball--you hit the ball farther.
Flexibility and speed exercises and roids(strength) will make you hit the ball farther.
[quote name='boxerjoe2011' timestamp='1300478045' post='3067281']
[quote name='justinp766' timestamp='1300405473' post='3065230']
Study before you start making assumptions about steroids and tendons.

Actually what steroids do is increase protein synthesis which results in extremely fast hypertrophy.
When you overload your tendons and ligaments trying to create hypertrophy they have no choice but to grow stronger to keep up with the overloading on your muscles.
But most of the time your hypertrophy would beat the tendons+ligaments getting stronger in a race and then thats where an injury might occur.
Your probally not doing power cleans or heavy barbell rows. You need explosive strength to swing faster.
So get off the smith machine and into a power rack.

Look at this video of this long driver,
This kid was a bit skinnier in the first video and he figured he should bulk up to increase his swing speed.
So he bulked up to 220 from 170 I believe
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93_XSkymDzc&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.c...feature=related[/url] <-------{ Him at 170 lbs.
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVYSxlByvkk&feature=related"]
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related[/url] <----------{ Same kid at 220 lbs. Different angle to really show the speed in this swing.
[/quote]


Are you arguing about 5-10 mph increases in swing speed? Besides, as you grow large, you can't produce as large of a turn which decreases clubhead speed. These videos you posted don't really help your argument either, I have seen better swings at a playground. I hope those aren't videos of yourself haha


[/quote]
[/quote]


CASE CLOSED! Thankyou Cave!

[boxerjoe2011]

[quote name='justinp766' timestamp='1300518250' post='3068616']
[quote name='cavemeister' timestamp='1300517577' post='3068603']
Being big has nothing to do with making a turn. Jason Zuback made sure he stretched like crazy. He's super flexible and super strong.
Look at roids in baseball--you hit the ball farther.
Flexibility and speed exercises and roids(strength) will make you hit the ball farther.
[quote name='boxerjoe2011' timestamp='1300478045' post='3067281']
[quote name='justinp766' timestamp='1300405473' post='3065230']
Study before you start making assumptions about steroids and tendons.

Actually what steroids do is increase protein synthesis which results in extremely fast hypertrophy.
When you overload your tendons and ligaments trying to create hypertrophy they have no choice but to grow stronger to keep up with the overloading on your muscles.
But most of the time your hypertrophy would beat the tendons+ligaments getting stronger in a race and then thats where an injury might occur.
Your probally not doing power cleans or heavy barbell rows. You need explosive strength to swing faster.
So get off the smith machine and into a power rack.

Look at this video of this long driver,
This kid was a bit skinnier in the first video and he figured he should bulk up to increase his swing speed.
So he bulked up to 220 from 170 I believe
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93_XSkymDzc&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.c...feature=related[/url] <-------{ Him at 170 lbs.
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVYSxlByvkk&feature=related"]
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related[/url] <----------{ Same kid at 220 lbs. Different angle to really show the speed in this swing.
[/quote]


Are you arguing about 5-10 mph increases in swing speed? Besides, as you grow large, you can't produce as large of a turn which decreases clubhead speed. These videos you posted don't really help your argument either, I have seen better swings at a playground. I hope those aren't videos of yourself haha


[/quote]
[/quote]


CASE CLOSED! Thankyou Cave!
[/quote]

Holy moly, Force = mass x acceleration. You can't compare baseball to golf, the difference between a 95 mph fastball and 100 mph fastball is HUGE. The difference between a shot to left field that hits the warning track compared to out of the park is HUGE, those margins are game changers. It's not the same difference in golf. It's my mistake for trying to talk sense into the people on the long drive forum, it's like talking to chimps. If you think adding 20 pounds of muscle is so important to adding distance, how come more guys on tour aren't roiding? I'm not arguing that being stronger means you have the potential to hit it farther, but the difference is minimal. You need strong and fast hips, not a chest or biceps. Guys aren't roiding on tour because golf has moral athletes or they care about the purity of the game, or they are finally getting tested for it? Gimme a break. If it made a real difference, guys would be doing it. But it's not necessary. Being fit and flexible and being roided out are two completely different things. Villegas is one of the most fit guys on tour and for his size, he hits it a long way, but it has little to do with his upper body strength. I am not advocating being a fat slob, but being able to bench 300 pounds is a waste of time. Going back to F=mxa, a large man (regardless of his muscle mass) doesn't have to swing with has much acceleration to get the same force behind the ball (Ernie Els) vs. a small man who will have to turn his hips quicker to produce more clubhead speed to get the same force on the ball. I don't even know why I am arguing this point any longer. I weigh 160 pounds and average 280 off the tee. If i took a lesson from one of you fellas, you would simply tell me to get stronger for more distance? That's your easy fix? It boggles me that you think golf (or physics for that matter) is always that simple.

[gatorman2k6]

[quote name='boxerjoe2011' timestamp='1300609634' post='3070986']
[quote name='justinp766' timestamp='1300518250' post='3068616']
[quote name='cavemeister' timestamp='1300517577' post='3068603']
Being big has nothing to do with making a turn. Jason Zuback made sure he stretched like crazy. He's super flexible and super strong.
Look at roids in baseball--you hit the ball farther.
Flexibility and speed exercises and roids(strength) will make you hit the ball farther.
[quote name='boxerjoe2011' timestamp='1300478045' post='3067281']
[quote name='justinp766' timestamp='1300405473' post='3065230']
Study before you start making assumptions about steroids and tendons.

Actually what steroids do is increase protein synthesis which results in extremely fast hypertrophy.
When you overload your tendons and ligaments trying to create hypertrophy they have no choice but to grow stronger to keep up with the overloading on your muscles.
But most of the time your hypertrophy would beat the tendons+ligaments getting stronger in a race and then thats where an injury might occur.
Your probally not doing power cleans or heavy barbell rows. You need explosive strength to swing faster.
So get off the smith machine and into a power rack.

Look at this video of this long driver,
This kid was a bit skinnier in the first video and he figured he should bulk up to increase his swing speed.
So he bulked up to 220 from 170 I believe
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93_XSkymDzc&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.c...feature=related[/url] <-------{ Him at 170 lbs.
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVYSxlByvkk&feature=related"]
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related[/url] <----------{ Same kid at 220 lbs. Different angle to really show the speed in this swing.
[/quote]


Are you arguing about 5-10 mph increases in swing speed? Besides, as you grow large, you can't produce as large of a turn which decreases clubhead speed. These videos you posted don't really help your argument either, I have seen better swings at a playground. I hope those aren't videos of yourself haha


[/quote]
[/quote]


CASE CLOSED! Thankyou Cave!
[/quote]

Holy moly, Force = mass x acceleration. You can't compare baseball to golf, the difference between a 95 mph fastball and 100 mph fastball is HUGE. The difference between a shot to left field that hits the warning track compared to out of the park is HUGE, those margins are game changers. It's not the same difference in golf. It's my mistake for trying to talk sense into the people on the long drive forum, it's like talking to chimps. If you think adding 20 pounds of muscle is so important to adding distance, how come more guys on tour aren't roiding? I'm not arguing that being stronger means you have the potential to hit it farther, but the difference is minimal. You need strong and fast hips, not a chest or biceps. Guys aren't roiding on tour because golf has moral athletes or they care about the purity of the game, or they are finally getting tested for it? Gimme a break. If it made a real difference, guys would be doing it. But it's not necessary. Being fit and flexible and being roided out are two completely different things. Villegas is one of the most fit guys on tour and for his size, he hits it a long way, but it has little to do with his upper body strength. I am not advocating being a fat slob, but being able to bench 300 pounds is a waste of time. Going back to F=mxa, a large man (regardless of his muscle mass) doesn't have to swing with has much acceleration to get the same force behind the ball (Ernie Els) vs. a small man who will have to turn his hips quicker to produce more clubhead speed to get the same force on the ball. I don't even know why I am arguing this point any longer. I weigh 160 pounds and average 280 off the tee. If i took a lesson from one of you fellas, you would simply tell me to get stronger for more distance? That's your easy fix? It boggles me that you think golf (or physics for that matter) is always that simple.
[/quote]

First off, I have to say that this thread has been pretty amusing, so I think I'll chime in. I'd have to say that you are both right. To hit the ball further, you need 3 things: a good swing/contact (most important), speed, and strength. By improving your swing, you will increase your distance the most. Why does it always seem like non-LD guys are so anti-lifting?? Lifting weights will increase your distance, so long as, you have a good swing and remain flexible. boxerjoe, you are proving that you don't know too much about lifting and how it relates to golf, because nobody here is saying, "let's get a big bench and do curls so that we have a big chest and biceps". Everyone here should be smart enough to know that the back/core/legs are what will help the most, which is why justin is big on suggesting people do rows, deadlifts, powercleans (help build speed), squats, and ab work. He knows what type of lifting you should be doing. I still think it is funny when people say a big chest will hurt you; it would take a pretty big chest to slow your swing down that much. When I was at a golf show a couple months ago, I asked Brian Pavlet what he thought was more important, strength or flexibility and he summed it up perfectly; he said that if you are young, and or are flexible, that you need to focus on increasing your strength to hit the ball further, but don't slack on the stretching. He said if you are starting to get older or less flexible, tone down the lifting and primarily focus on flexibility by stretching a lot and doing different exercises. The bottom line is that weight lifting WILL DEFINITELY increase your distance, SO LONG AS, you remain flexible and have a decent swing....why is this so hard to understand???

[justinp766]

First off, I have to say that this thread has been pretty amusing, so I think I'll chime in. I'd have to say that you are both right. To hit the ball further, you need 3 things: a good swing/contact (most important), speed, and strength. By improving your swing, you will increase your distance the most. Why does it always seem like non-LD guys are so anti-lifting?? Lifting weights will increase your distance, so long as, you have a good swing and remain flexible. boxerjoe, you are proving that you don't know too much about lifting and how it relates to golf, because nobody here is saying, "let's get a big bench and do curls so that we have a big chest and biceps". Everyone here should be smart enough to know that the back/core/legs are what will help the most, which is why justin is big on suggesting people do rows, deadlifts, powercleans (help build speed), squats, and ab work. He knows what type of lifting you should be doing. I still think it is funny when people say a big chest will hurt you; it would take a pretty big chest to slow your swing down that much. When I was at a golf show a couple months ago, I asked Brian Pavlet what he thought was more important, strength or flexibility and he summed it up perfectly; he said that if you are young, and or are flexible, that you need to focus on increasing your strength to hit the ball further, but don't slack on the stretching. He said if you are starting to get older or less flexible, tone down the lifting and primarily focus on flexibility by stretching a lot and doing different exercises. The bottom line is that weight lifting WILL DEFINITELY increase your distance, SO LONG AS, you remain flexible and have a decent swing....why is this so hard to understand???
[/quote]


Great conclusion, lol this should be a sticky.

[Mr. Herbert]

[quote name='the700level' timestamp='1285945365' post='2723285']
[quote name='Rugger' timestamp='1282264096' post='2650101']
Steroids don't just make you a jacked up gorilla. Cyclists use steroids and most of them don't top 150#
[/quote]

get outta here cyclists don't use anabolics. they are usually accused of "blood doping" which is basically taking substances such as EPO or clen to increase oxygen to the bloodstream.
[/quote]

Floyd Landis might disagree with your statement.

[QuickHook]

[quote name='Mr. Herbert' timestamp='1300679035' post='3073316']
[quote name='the700level' timestamp='1285945365' post='2723285']
[quote name='Rugger' timestamp='1282264096' post='2650101']
Steroids don't just make you a jacked up gorilla. Cyclists use steroids and most of them don't top 150#
[/quote]

get outta here cyclists don't use anabolics. they are usually accused of "blood doping" which is basically taking substances such as EPO or clen to increase oxygen to the bloodstream.
[/quote]

Floyd Landis might disagree with your statement.
[/quote]

Many cyclists have been catched using steroids, but they have completely different reasons.
Rumour ist that steroids multiply the effects of epo, help regeneration, etc. Road cyclists certainly don't want to gain weight.