Aaron Baddeley picks up 30-50 yards?

[iteachgolf]

Yea 3.5 greens over 4 days, huge difference between 1st and 99th

[petter7]

[quote name='MacBooky' timestamp='1284154953' post='2689873']
[quote name='justhittheshot' timestamp='1284143422' post='2689580']
I'm glad someone with some knowledge contributed. s&t is a joke.

EDIT: Checked the top 5 in GIR: Matteson, Sutherland, Trahan, Senden, and Druant. s&t golfers?

Charlie Wi is 99 and Axley is not a tour member anymore.
[/quote]

Stats ehhhhh

Matteson - S&T - nr 1. 70.51% = 12.87 greens in regulation per round
Wi - S&T - nr 99. 66.59% = 11.99 greens in regulation per round

Yeah, Wi really sucks ....
[/quote]

Tour stats; always a good laugh when someone starts making ball striking comparisons.

The top 100 on the tour know how to hit a golf ball well. If anyone of them gets hot with
the putter along with a decent week from tee to green has a good chance of winning.

[stoic]

Stack and Tilt seems like such a b/t (h swing to me. I'm sorry. I'd quit the game before I ever bought into that voodoo. Seems like all the same kinda guys go to it too. I bet there's a lot of S&T swingers in MLS.

[petter7]

[quote name='stoic' timestamp='1284160284' post='2690001']
Stack and Tilt seems like such a b/t (h swing to me. I'm sorry. I'd quit the game before I ever bought into that voodoo. Seems like all the same kinda guys go to it too. I bet there's a lot of S&T swingers in MLS.
[/quote]

Have you read the book??

[scores]

Whats his distance this week? Not affilated with any swing technique?

[bscinstnct]

I remember a 3wood Badds hit, I think it was a 3w, against Tiger in the Accenture a few years back.

Off the deck on a par 5. Sorry if I am incorrect.

Man, he smoked it.

I recall how short his swing was and it was like, where did all the power come from?

He hit a nice shot and maybe did a twirl.

Tiger beat him, but Badds played great.

Then he left snt and I still don't know why.

[logan91201]

[quote name='justhittheshot' timestamp='1284143422' post='2689580']
[quote name='cwang' timestamp='1284137113' post='2689417']
So being curious and a huge nerd I whipped up the numbers from the PGA website. A few observations:

[list][*]Badds has never, ever been a good ballstriker, despite half of the people on this forum having huge raging equipment boners for the tiny forged blades in his WITB. He has never cracked the top 150 in GIR. Not exactly a poster child for S&T.[*]He did happen to win twice on the PGA using S&T, in 2006 and 2007 (Verizon Heritage and the FBR).[*]He has gained distance in 2010. Before 2010 he was about average length by Tour standards but now he is ranked 14.[*][b]His real strength is and always has been his putter. He is INSANELY good on the greens, converting the birdies.[/b][*][b]Consider that when hitting the green in regulation, despite being ranked 183rd in proximity to the hole (averaging 38' 1"), he is ranked [i]4th[/i] in putts per GIR at 1.738. That is astonishingly good putting.[/b][/list]
Aaron's one of my favorite players on tour, so I'm not knocking him at all - but it begs the question, maybe, just [i]maybe[/i], he should at least try a cavity back? There are plenty of better ballstrikers on the PGA playing more forgiving clubs than he plays. If he could be average in GIR, like top 75, and keep putting like he does, he would be a real force.

Numbers speak for themselves. In the words of Bubba Watson..."your welcome!" (He's a golfer, not a speller).

[attachment=653992:Baddeley Stats.png]

PS - story about how awesome Aaron is - I played in a children's charity event a year ago where one of the auction items was a round with Badds at Whisper Rock. Two bidders far wealthier than I got in a contest, and the price got up to several thousands. Aaron's rep was there, so he called up Aaron on his cell phone and asked if he could do two rounds, one with each guy, and Aaron of course said "No problem at all!" Great guy.
[/quote]

I'm glad someone with some knowledge contributed. s&t is a joke.

EDIT: Checked the top 5 in GIR: Matteson, Sutherland, Trahan, Senden, and Druant. s&t golfers?

Charlie Wi is 99 and Axley is not a tour member anymore.
[/quote]


In response to your edit. Troy Matteson, the guy at #1 has been working with Andy and Mike for a while now. Even when he set the PGA Tour 36 hole record last year and won the event.

I haven't looked recently but Garrett Willis was top 10 as well.

[scores]

[quote name='MP60dude' timestamp='1284162435' post='2690056']
Quoting distance stats is a bit goofy, they don't always hit driver. Dale Lynch is a great teacher, period.
[/quote]

MP60dude

I know nothing about dale lynch and very little about Stack and tilt but to challenge his old teachers is wrong Baddley to me has always been a poor driver of the ball and its more or less a comfort area when driving bthe ball in tournament golf..

Why cause issues I watch wi hit balls last week he is not a big guy physically and moves the ball fine its a piercing ball flight that works well in the fall.

Two different people two different builds period. If the statck tilt guys are not for Baddley then it is what it is,.....

[freshprince99]

[quote name='stoic' timestamp='1284160284' post='2690001']
Stack and Tilt seems like such a b/t (h swing to me. I'm sorry. I'd quit the game before I ever bought into that voodoo. Seems like all the same kinda guys go to it too. I bet there's a lot of S&T swingers in MLS.
[/quote]

i too thought it was a joke before i bought the book and studied it several times over. i adopted the system recently because it makes good sense, much more sense than what i was working on before. im a former mini tour player, and while struggling i worked with several golf magazine top 100 teachers, and while i learned a lot from them i didnt really see any results. the results ive gotten from stack and tilt in a very short period of time are so encouraging im seriously considering competing again next year, which is a joy considering golf was so miserable after i stopped competing that i quit for two years. i would highly reccomend you read the book with an open mind before you discount stack and tilt as mere "voodo", i think if you did you would see the value on what it teaches, even if you dont decide to go to it. and by the way, im quite sure someone like yourself would think that i look quite stupid on the range with my "voodo" method, but i couldnt care less, i care about shooting good scores and enjoying golf.

[justhittheshot]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1284159029' post='2689967']
Yea 3.5 greens over 4 days, huge difference between 1st and 99th
[/quote]

You asked for stats, correct? You got them. And Dean Wilson is also outside the top 100. 3.5 greens over 4 days could mean four or five shots. If s&t is built around accuracy and your saying four greens a tournament doesn't matter? Matteson is the only s&t guy (his face should be plastered all over that dvd) to win since feb of 2007. Garrett Willis is 16th right now.

[stoic]

[quote name='freshprince99' timestamp='1284173517' post='2690365']


i too thought it was a joke before i bought the book and studied it several times over. i adopted the system recently because it makes good sense, much more sense than what i was working on before. im a former mini tour player, and while struggling i worked with several golf magazine top 100 teachers, and while i learned a lot from them i didnt really see any results. the results ive gotten from stack and tilt in a very short period of time are so encouraging im seriously considering competing again next year, which is a joy considering golf was so miserable after i stopped competing that i quit for two years. i would highly reccomend you read the book with an open mind before you discount stack and tilt as mere "voodo", i think if you did you would see the value on what it teaches, even if you dont decide to go to it. and by the way, im quite sure someone like yourself would think that i look quite stupid on the range with my "voodo" method, but i couldnt care less, i care about shooting good scores and enjoying golf.
[/quote]


I know more than anyone you gotta go with what works for you. But like most people, I emulate the swings of pros I like. Charlie Wi and Bads aren't on my radar. I can't stand Mike Weir...never could. I think he's my least favorite pro, actually. The fact he can't hit earth with his driver these days doesn't really make me want to go on a S&T google marathon either. Now you got Baddeley throwing in the S&T towel...etc etc. I've read debates about it from people who know a lot more about golf than me also. For me..that's enough. I kind of look at S&T like Rick Ankiel having to learn to play outfield. He couldn't get over his case of the Knoblauchs. Granted, he's making millions...but I bet he still looks at the mound on his way to centerfield and gets pissed at himself from time to time.
When I see major winner after major winner going S&T...or 75% of the long drive guys doing it...I'll study up.

[stoic]

[quote name='logan91201' timestamp='1284177488' post='2690450']

Mike and Aaron have been off S&T for more than a year now. Any driver issues Weir is currently experiencing have nothing to do with what Andy & Mike teach.

But I get it. You don't like it. You don't think it is for you. Good to know. Now we can move on.

If you care to come to a thread like this one and make valid points about what is wrong with S&T then we can discuss. Like what specific pieces you dont like? Of those pieces what misses do they cause? What would you do differently?
[/quote]


An oversensitive S&T devotee...in a golf forum? I think my house just shook. And I usually relegate my distaste for S&T aesthetics to the"hacks without swing doctorates" forum, but I didn't think I'd be excommunicated for heresy for posting it here. Since I am here though....The swing's ugly. The dip is ugly. The pros who do it suck and are little judy hitters who never win. I don't need to know the science.

[freshprince99]

[quote name='stoic' timestamp='1284177003' post='2690443']



I know more than anyone you gotta go with what works for you. But like most people, I emulate the swings of pros I like. Charlie Wi and Bads aren't on my radar. I can't stand Mike Weir...never could. I think he's my least favorite pro, actually. The fact he can't hit earth with his driver these days doesn't really make me want to go on a S&T google marathon either. Now you got Baddeley throwing in the S&T towel...etc etc. I've read debates about it from people who know a lot more about golf than me also. For me..that's enough. I kind of look at S&T like Rick Ankiel having to learn to play outfield. He couldn't get over his case of the Knoblauchs. Granted, he's making millions...but I bet he still looks at the mound on his way to centerfield and gets pissed at himself from time to time.
When I see major winner after major winner going S&T...or 75% of the long drive guys doing it...I'll study up.


[/quote]



"But like most people, I emulate the swings of pros I like"

i too would love to swing like ernie els, or charles howell, or trevor immelman, but unfourtunately i am none of those people, and as far as ballstriking goes i am just not that talented. what i am willing to do is learn as much as i can about the golf swing from as many sources as possible and work as hard as i can on what works, and through my study of stack and tilt i have found plenty of merit in this system. if you would like to do some research about stack and tilt and have a conversation about why you do not think it has value i think that is fantastic, and i would love to be a part of that debate. but what i am not going to do is argue with you when the only point you have made is insulting some really good players eg:

charlie wie has over 5.5 million in earnings in 125+ tour starts
mike weir has a masters jacket and is a multiple tour winner
aaron baddely is a multiple pga tour champion

on top of the fact that the latter two guys left stack and tilt a year ago so it makes no sense that you would cite their recent performance. you are clearly not here to have a discussion about the golf swing, you are simply here to argue, and i for one have no interest in doing that with someone who cant even take the time to go down to the library or bookstore and read a 200 page book so his points in the discussion have some merit behind them. i will not be responding to any more of your posts on this matter, take care.

[chris_golf]

<object width="640" height="505"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZLRvOL8NevE?fs=1&hl=de_DE&rel=0"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ZLRvOL8NevE?fs=1&hl=de_DE&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="505"></object> [b]Aaron Baddeley must had 2008 at the matchplay against Tiger a good day. Can´t see there bad ballstriking...[/b] [b]He doesnt´t need to pickup 10 yards with his driver - hopefully he will find a teacher or system who teaches him more control... with whatever system - but without a doubt at 2008 with s+t he was closer to control his swing... Chris[/b]

[MacBooky]

[quote name='justhittheshot' timestamp='1284176278' post='2690426']


You asked for stats, correct? You got them. And Dean Wilson is also outside the top 100. 3.5 greens over 4 days could mean four or five shots. If s&t is built around accuracy and your saying four greens a tournament doesn't matter? Matteson is the only s&t guy (his face should be plastered all over that dvd) to win since feb of 2007. Garrett Willis is 16th right now.
[/quote]

So you're saying Bill Lunde didn't win Turning Stone this year (where JJ Henry came second and Cejka was T3)?
Stats do not show where these guys would have been if they hadn't gotten on the S&T wagon .. using them to compare players is pretty useless anyway ..... they should be used to compare the same player

[Donly]

I do not get the hatred for the S&T. Seems like a viable way too me.

[JD3]

[quote name='chris_golf' timestamp='1284193965' post='2690608']
> [b]Aaron Baddeley must had 2008 at the matchplay against Tiger a good day. Can´t see there bad ballstriking...[/b] [b]He doesnt´t need to pickup 10 yards with his driver - hopefully he will find a teacher or system who teaches him more control... with whatever system - but without a doubt at 2008 with s+t he was closer to control his swing... Chris[/b]
[/quote]
Epic match. Thanks for posting Chris. Had Badds lived up to his putting reputation he would have won.

[BabyFades]

[quote name='JD3' timestamp='1284205566' post='2690702']
[quote name='chris_golf' timestamp='1284193965' post='2690608']
[b]Aaron Baddeley must had 2008 at the matchplay against Tiger a good day. Can´t see there bad ballstriking...[/b] [b]He doesnt´t need to pickup 10 yards with his driver - hopefully he will find a teacher or system who teaches him more control... with whatever system - but without a doubt at 2008 with s+t he was closer to control his swing... Chris[/b]
[/quote]
Epic match. Thanks for posting Chris. Had Badds lived up to his putting reputation he would have won.
[/quote]

He starts taking off his hat before the ball is even in the cup, that's a winner move.

[Clugnut]

Man, I love Stack and Tilt arguments. Kinda like Ford and Chevy.

[justhittheshot]

Did anyone see Brandel's analysis of s&t during the golf channel pregame today?

[ABgolfer2]

[quote name='Clugnut' timestamp='1284209879' post='2690756']
Man, I love Stack and Tilt arguments. Kinda like Ford and Chevy.
[/quote]


Remember when Nissan upgraded the Titan and all the N. American auto magazines were having wet dreams about it? Then a year later it was named the worst truck of the year? Ford and Chevy rule.

[mattwood]

[quote name='justhittheshot' timestamp='1284220774' post='2690952']
Did anyone see Brandel's analysis of s&t during the golf channel pregame today?
[/quote]




I just saw that a little while ago.  He obviously is not a fan of SnT although I'm not sure if his opinions will actually match the stats.  I was wondering if there is anyplace online to watch it again as I missed the first part?  Time to get the popcorn ready

[D'KRUSHER]

Tommy Armour's book- from 60 or so years ago - it had you "do" S n T with 7 iron thru wedges.... and I think this makes sense. You dont care to crush the ball - you want a clean strike at the ball and consistency.

BRANDLEBIRD CHARDONNAY ( Brandle Chamblies) just totally dissed
S n T !!! Totally dumped on Charlie Wie ! - After Wie dumped on Sean Foley.

The great S N T debate continues.

[MacBooky]

[quote name='D'KRUSHER' timestamp='1284222612' post='2690979']
Tommy Armour's book- from 60 or so years ago - it had you "do" S n T with 7 iron thru wedges.... and I think this makes sense. You dont care to crush the ball - you want a clean strike at the ball and consistency.

BRANDLEBIRD CHARDONNAY ( Brandle Chamblies) just totally dissed
S n T !!! Totally dumped on Charlie Wie ! - After Wie dumped on Sean Foley.

The great S N T debate continues.
[/quote]


which basically shows how much Brandle and you know about S&T ..... have another Chablis

[petter7]

[quote name='stoic' timestamp='1284179049' post='2690480']
An oversensitive S&T devotee...in a golf forum? I think my house just shook. And I usually relegate my distaste for S&T aesthetics to the"hacks without swing doctorates" forum, but I didn't think I'd be excommunicated for heresy for posting it here. Since I am here though....The swing's ugly. The dip is ugly. [b]The pros who do it suck and are little judy hitters who never win. I don't need to know the science. [/b]

[/quote]

How does a harmless jab post like mine get taken down and crap like this
is allowed to remain. BTW stoic, those little judy hitters do win and there's
no question they would pound you into submission on the golf course. The
fact that you admit to having no true understanding of S&T undermines any
negative comments you make.

There are so many teachers and methods that players have worked with and
then abandoned it's silly to even keep a count. No problem with you feeling
S&T looks ugly, there are many, many ugly swings on tour other than S&T
players also, so that doesn't matter much. But, to bash S&T and say players
who are doing it suck, can't hit it very far, and don't win, without any effort on
your part to get your facts straight or understand what S&T is all about isn't
exactly being smart. Read the book and you'll be surprised what's in there.

[justhittheshot]

I think everyone should get off s&ts jock until someone [size="4"][u][b]wins a major[/b][/u][/size] with bennett and plummer in their ear. Until then, take it for what it is. Another gimmick. I don't care who wins the fry's.com open.

[rexfan]

[quote name='justhittheshot' timestamp='1284261036' post='2691800']
I think everyone should get off s&ts jock until someone [size="4"][u][b]wins a major[/b][/u][/size] with bennett and plummer in their ear. Until then, take it for what it is. Another gimmick. I don't care who wins the fry's.com open.
[/quote]

How many majors have Foley's clients won? Hank Haney has had students(Tiger, O'Meara) win Majors and he teaches junk. Your point does not make sense.

[yedi015]

Theirs a lot more to winning majors than hitting the ball straight. S & T isn't a putting system or chipping system or for that fact a nerve's system. You may hit the ball great with S&T but cant put worth a sh!t. That's not going to give you too many majors if any. You cant say the S&T sucks cause it hasn't won any majors.Also if your going by the fact that Weir and Baddeley left it then I guess Butch Harmon sucks cause didn't Tiger Leave him. The ones that knock the system either don't know anything about it or are threatened by it.

[petter7]

[quote name='justhittheshot' timestamp='1284261036' post='2691800']
I think everyone should get off s&ts jock until someone [size="4"][u][b]wins a major[/b][/u][/size] with bennett and plummer in their ear. Until then, take it for what it is. Another gimmick. I don't care who wins the fry's.com open.
[/quote]

The talent a player possesses has more to do with winning a major championship than any swing method.

If you read the book, you'll discover S&T is definitely not a gimmick; far from it.

[justhittheshot]

[quote name='rexfan' timestamp='1284261746' post='2691824']

How many majors have Foley's clients won? Hank Haney has had students(Tiger, O'Meara) win Majors and he teaches junk. Your point does not make sense.
[/quote]


Hank Haney teaches junk? HAHAHAHHAHA!