When Are You Negligent If You Don't Yell Fore?

[profsmitty]

Landmark legal case in NY Court of Appeals

A NY Appeals Court may soon make a golfer's lack of courtesy an expensive act of negligence:

http://msn.foxsports.com/golf/story/Golfer-blinded-by-bad-shot-sues-pal-for-not-yelling-Fore-111510?gt1=39002

How far does the duty to yell "Fore" extend?

[SolarAegis]

Well, last time I checked, you yell "fore" AFTER the shot. In this case, given his proximity, there would have been no time. I also agree with the initial ruling that there is an inherent risk you take when you play the game. If the guy wasn't standing far enough away, or was in the wrong position, he only has himself to blame... Hope this gets thrown out because it's ludicrous and a waste of court time/money.....

[corky]

Yawn..... another US blow to personal responsibility.

It's always someone else's fault... ergo I can sue.

M O N E Y.... that's all that matters

[J-J]

Never pass a player before he's made his shot would've been even better...
Wow going to court for something like this... wow

[MtlJeff]

hey the case was dismissed, looks like your legal system is progressing. 5-10 years ago they would have awarded the guy 100 billion.

[dmbgolfer]

[quote name='J-J' timestamp='1289863874' post='2791998']
Never pass a player before he's made his shot would've been even better...
Wow going to court for something like this... wow
[/quote]

Something like this- you mean like going blind in one eye? Yeah, what a baby.

[#1Ballin]

here is a post in the comments of that news article.

[color=#5A5A5A][size=2][b]"im 55 ... been a golf pro since 74 ... seen all kinds of odd things from a 600 yrd drive off a truck side window ... to a hole in one off a turtles's shell ... seen people hit with Clubs, Balls, Carts, Bags, Flag Polls > hell by mowers ... seen a guy get stabbed off his own 4 iron after breaking it and another knock himself out from his own shot .... thats Golf ... PS > seen a Gator attack a guy and carry off his bag ... has to stop in Alaska and allows bears to cross the hole ...."[/b][/size][/color]
[color=#5A5A5A][size=2][b]
[/b][/size][/color]
[color=#5A5A5A][size=2][b]too funny.[/b][/size][/color]

[J-J]

[quote name='dmbgolfer' timestamp='1289887237' post='2792696']
[quote name='J-J' timestamp='1289863874' post='2791998']
Never pass a player before he's made his shot would've been even better...
Wow going to court for something like this... wow
[/quote]

Something like this- you mean like going blind in one eye? Yeah, what a baby.
[/quote]

No one to blame is there? So let's go to court..... this is everyday correct?
Here this would just be settled through insurance, oh well

[grabthepin]

Yes you are negligent if you don't yell Fore if you have the chance. That's really what negligence is about. It is obvious here however that the striker didn't have a chance because of the proximity and unexpected ball direction.

Hit someone in the middle of the fairway 200 yards away without yelling fore and I'd expect the law to deem you negligent.

[Sean2]

What's next, suing golf courses if we don't shoot sub-seventy rounds?

[Pweb44]

[quote name='SolarAegis' timestamp='1289862882' post='2791964']
Well, last time I checked, you yell "fore" AFTER the shot. In this case, given his proximity, there would have been no time. I also agree with the initial ruling that there is an inherent risk you take when you play the game. If the guy wasn't standing far enough away, or was in the wrong position, he only has himself to blame... Hope this gets thrown out because it ludicrous and a waste of court time/money.....
[/quote]

Your right you should yell "Fore" after you hit a shot and have a concern it is heading towards someone, but also there are alot of times I'll be setting up for a shot and I'll see that someone has walked ahead towards their ball I'll give them a heads up that I'm hitting. A simple warning before you hit can make sure people are alert, too many times people are so focused on their own shot they don't notice others around them. Although 99% of the time my shot goes nowhere near them, it is still good to give a warning before hitting for that 1% chance you might make a mistake and shank the ball or something.

In this case, if the facts as presented are correct, then awarning of fore after the fact most likely would have been too late but the other golfers need to take reasonable precautions to enure they are alert and out of possible harms way. I always want to stay slightly behind a person hitting if I can until they have made their swing therefore trying to stay out of a possible danger zone.

[Man In The Miura]

I hope Anoop and Azad i-patch things up.

[sanjuanfly]

I surprised the primary litigant didn't sue Titliest (if that was the ball in question) as well...seems that they would have much deeper pockets.

[highergr0und]

15 to 20 feet wouldn't give you enough time to hit, realize the shank, and get an F out of your mouth. Well maybe he got the F out, but it probably was followed by uck instead of ore given that terrible shot.

I'm sure it was successfully argued that even if fore was yelled, there was no chance of avoiding the collision. The guy was standing in a terrible spot.

[Dr Rangelove]

It's semi interesting.

1) the responsibility of the guy hit to stand clear of an area in which there is a chance of the ball trajectory heading has him at fault

2) the responsibility of the player hitting to request the other player to move from a possible line of fire

I would go with #1. Once you're standing over the ball that is your point of concentration so if the person in the line of fire, basically 180* in front of the hitter, is at fault if he or she has moved into that target area.

Sometimes when playing with a slow player I'll go ahead to my ball but I always keep an eye on those behind me ready to dive for cover

[tElihu]

Take 4 steps straight ahead, then 5 steps to the right. That's where the guy was basically standing (according to 2 of the 3 guys).

[OpusX20]

Brown v. Board of Education
Roe v. Wade
Marbury v. Madison
Miranda v. Arizona

and...

Anoop v. Azad

[mike03a3]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1289906174' post='2792791']
What's next, suing golf courses if we don't shoot sub-seventy rounds?
[/quote]

No, suing manufacturers not the courses. I'm gonna sue Callaway. I've upgraded drivers enough I should be up to 300 yards by now, since every new driver is worth 10-15 yards.

[Socrates]

If I remember correctly, there was a court case in the mid 80's where the courts sided with a complainant that the warning must come before the shot has been hit. I believe that they based their decision on the age old custom that players yelled "Fore" to forewarn people that a shot was being played and to bear heed. I could be wrong here, but that is my recollection. There's got to be a few lawyers here that might know or remember.

[MadGolfer76]

I blame Red Ryder.

[url="%3Cbr%20/%3Ehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENngzZdUMEM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENngzZdUMEM[/url]

[squarre]

I am an attorney, but I do workers' comp defense and not personal injury work so take my opinion for what it is worth. That also means I am coming from a defense attorney perspective, which may also skew my view of the case.

I read the Appellate Division decision and I will be surprised if the ruling is overturned at the higher court. In my opinion, the majority opinion makes very strong arguments about the assumption of risk by the plaintiff and the fact that the shot had to be so bad to hit the plaintiff that there was no foreseeable danger. Even the dissenting judge seems to insinuate that the possibility of assumption of risk is present on the part of the plaintiff. That judge just did not believe that the trial court judge should have granted the motion for summary judgment.

[varsityhacker]

The only case were a golfer was found negligent for hitting someone with a ball and causing injury was the case where a guy hit a kid in the eye. The kid let a group of men play through on the tee box. He was in the fw and hid behind his bag. He looked up at the wrong time and a drive hit him in the eye he also lost his eye. The parents sued and won because the child was a minor and the court deemed the adult was responsible for the safety of the minor and had acted negligent. Other then this case when you step on the course you except the assumption of risk inherient with golf.

[slaveofthegov]

[quote name='mike03a3' timestamp='1290034143' post='2795577']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1289906174' post='2792791']
What's next, suing golf courses if we don't shoot sub-seventy rounds?
[/quote]

No, suing manufacturers not the courses. I'm gonna sue Callaway. I've upgraded drivers enough I should be up to 300 yards by now, since every new driver is worth 10-15 yards.
[/quote]


Jeeze, don't you know that all manufacturers have a GPS tracking device in their products? For instance, when you demo a driver you can blast the hell out of it on the range hitting nothing but the sweetest shots. But when you purchase the driver you just demo'd, once the bar code is scanned into the register, it sends a signal to the manufacturer to "turn off" the GPS device, thus turning off the good shots left in the driver......I thought everybody knew this!

[IH82BOGEY]

There are two kinds of fore. The first one is the quick little yelp that something is coming your way, but no real problem. The second kind is when one is about to get one it in the ear hole and someone yells at the top of their voice......F O R E !!!!!!!!!!!!! For the attorneys, did the accused use the right inflection or intonation to distinguish these two and thus the severity of the situation. Maybe we can have different degrees of yelling fore corresponding with just plain negligence and gross negligence. Things for you attorneys to consider: The statute of limitations on yelling fore. Signing consent forms before playing golf. Safety equipment such as a helmet while playing golf. What about texting while playing golf? Lets regulate golf and require licensure before play and require a person seeking a license to demonstrate how, when and in what way to yell fore. Lets require insurance for playing too as well as monthly inspections of equipment to make sure everything is OK.

[Augster]

The court upheld the dismissal as it should. There is an inherent risk just stepping on a course.

http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,2039348,00.html

Why anyone ever stands in the "shank zone" while a guy is hitting is beyond me.

[Pweb44]

Every golfer needs to be aware of their position on the course in relation to danger zones as much as possible. In this case, the golfer who was ahead of his partner looking for his ball put himself into a danger zone. I'm sure he knew the other guy was going to be hitting from the rough. Sure you have the danger of balls coming from another group on the course, but this was his own playing partner so he should never have put himself in a position like that where he could get hit by an errant shot

Anytime I'm getting ready to hit and I see that someon has moved ahead of my position, I'll give then a reminder that I'm about to hit and ensure they have acknowledged my warning. Now 99% of the time the ball will go nowhere near them but still will give a warning incase I do mishit my shot.

[tembolo1284]

I think you are always negligent. If the guy is so close to you that you don't have to react and yell fore then fine...otherwise...it's just freaking human decency! You can hurt someone real bad for Christ's sake!

[mdgboxx]

[quote name='smith5606' timestamp='1289859963' post='2791889']
A NY Appeals Court may soon make a golfer's lack of courtesy an expensive act of negligence:

[url="http://msn.foxsports.com/golf/story/Golfer-blinded-by-bad-shot-sues-pal-for-not-yelling-Fore-111510?gt1=39002"]http://msn.foxsports...11510?gt1=39002[/url]

How far does the duty to yell "Fore" extend?


[/quote]


ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) — Slices, hooks and other errant shots are a common hazard on the links and a golfer can't expect to get a warning shout of "Fore!" every time a ball comes his way, New York's top court ruled Tuesday in dismissing a personal injury lawsuit.

Dr. Anoop Kapoor and Dr. Azad Anand were playing on a nine-hole Long Island course in October 2002 when Anand was hit in the head while looking for his ball on a fairway, blinding him in one eye. The seven judges on the state Court of Appeals, siding with lower courts, said Kapoor's failure to yell in advance of his errant shot from the rough did not amount to intentional or reckless conduct.

The court cited a judge's finding that Anand was not in the foreseeable zone of danger and, as a golfer, consented to the inherent risks of the sport.

"The manner in which Anand was injured — being hit without warning by a 'shanked' shot while one searches for one's own ball — reflects a commonly appreciated risk of golf," the judges wrote.

They also broadly outlined the test under New York case law for determining when another golfer crosses the line and could be sued.

"A person who chooses to participate in a sport or recreational activity consents to certain risks" that are inherent to that activity, the judges wrote. "However, a plaintiff 'will not be deemed to have assumed the risks of reckless or intentional conduct or concealed or unreasonably increased risks."'

Anand, a neuroradiologist, was unable to work after he was hit by Kapoor's sliced shot, said Steven Cohn, Anand's attorney. Cohn argued that the case should not be dismissed without a trial, that the foreseeable zone of danger differs with the skill of the golfer and there were disputed questions of fact in this case.

Calls to Cohn and Kapoor's attorney, William Hartlein, were not immediately returned Tuesday.

The men, frequent golf partners, were playing at the Dix Hills Park Golf Course with another friend, Balram Verma, in 2002, according to court papers. After hitting a second shot on the first hole, each set off to find his ball.

Anand testified that he was hit as soon as he found his ball and turned around, about 15 to 20 feet away from Kapoor.

Verma testified that Anand was about 20 feet away from Kapoor and about 50 degrees away from the intended line of flight for Kapoor's shot.

Kapoor testified that Anand was farther away and at an angle of 60 to 80 degrees. He said he shouted the warning when he realized the ball was headed toward Anand. Neither friend said he heard it.

[sandwedge59]

I worked with someone who hit a driver from his hole to the right in the fairway next to it and hit a older woman and broke her thumb and he had to pay all the woman's medical expenses , and he did not yell fore !