Korean Golf

[dk10]

[quote name='LottaBalata' timestamp='1310421742' post='3383016']
[quote name='mk920' timestamp='1310412730' post='3382592']
Dude have you been to Korea??? You make it sound like Korea is a Third World Country. Korea is not poor. You are confusing the North and South bro. You need money to play golf in Korea because it is extremely expensive.
[/quote]

No, never been. Could never afford such a trip. Look guys, I completely understand what you're explaining to me. I hear stories from a 74 yr. old mom, and a 56yr old sister.

Their time in South Korea was much different. So, pardon my ignorance of the current situation over there. But, my reasoning is still the same. They want out. Its amazingly overpopulated. . .

Korea used to be a 3rd world country, its different now. I understand. But, please don't tell me I'm confusing a communist regime with South Korea, thanks.
[/quote]

No, we're telling you that you have absolutely no idea what your talking about.

[ChipDriver]

Nothing wrong with method - our girls can all hit the ball.

 

There aren't similar lucrative and respectful opportunities for Korean women - the LPGA is seen as an escape from a male dominated culture...and acts as a pretty good incentive. US women have a better quality of life here in the US and have many more equally lucrative opportunities. In other words- the LPGA isn't that much better of an opportunity and doesn't offer as much of an incentive for the US IMO.

 

WHAT??!?!?!!?!?!?

 

 

 

 

The median full time American worker's full-time income is about $45K. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States Let's say it's $50K and round it upwards. :)

 

Here is the LPGA money list: http://www.lpga.com/player_stats.aspx?mid=4&pid=5. From the dropdown menu look up 2010. The #95 player Julieta Granada made about $3K more than the median playing a full schedule (about $52K). By comparison - in 2010 Alex Cjeka at #95 on the PGA tour made than $900K in earnings alone http://www.golfweek.com/news/2009/jul/01/2009-pga-tour-money-list/.

 

Let's even assume Granada doubles her salary with another $50K in endorsements. Back out expenses for travel, food, lodging and lessons - maybe you're looking at $83K prior to taxes?

 

I'd argue that sending your daughter to college in the US will be a surer way to make $80K in the US faster and easier than trying to be a top 100 golfer in the world. Her chances increase substantially if she goes to grad school for medicine, law or business...and have an easier time getting into college or grad school than making it as a top 100 player on the LPGA.

 

However, I doubt that's the same situation for women in Korea. I know Japan very well - even if you go to college as a woman, there are not as many lucrative opportunities (in Japan for example women are still openly discriminated against in the workplace/pay scale/occupation) it is the same or worse in Korea for women. US women have it much better and easier to advance in the workplace AND be better respected. They have to leave Korea and Japan for similar opportunity.

 

Simply put - US women have more options to make better money.

[ChipDriver]

[quote name='kekoa' timestamp='1310417280' post='3382798']
[quote name='ChipDriver' timestamp='1310416358' post='3382742']<br />Nothing wrong with method - our girls can all hit the ball.<br /><br />There aren't similar lucrative and respectful opportunities for Korean women - the LPGA is seen as an escape from a male dominated culture...and acts as a pretty good incentive. US women have a better quality of life here in the US and have many more equally lucrative opportunities. In other words- the LPGA isn't that much better of an opportunity and doesn't offer as much of an incentive for the US IMO.<br />[/quote]<br /><br /><br />

So I assume you Korean (woman) touring pro living in Korea right now?
[/quote]

I am very familiar with Japan - it is worse for women in Korea. Even educated women still face open discrimination in society and workplace environments in Korea. They are not seen as equals compared to women in the US.

[charge]

One thing that is not picked up upon is that the trend and current thinking amongst the top players on the KLPGA is that they can earn as much if not more back in Korea from corporate sponsors, endorsements and prize money vs trying to make it on the LPGA in the states, learn English, adapt to a different culture and deal with the general ambivalence from US fans....



That is why we are seeing non-familiar names like Ryu so-yeon and Seo hee-kyung popping up at majors that have world class game but have been on the fence about giving up very financially comfortable lifestyle in Korea. The current top player on the KLPGA is Ahn sun-joo and it is not clear that she will transition to the LPGA...

[rony]

I think young LPGA Korean girls practice their golf. Young LPGA American girls practice putting on their make up.

[MDGolfer301]

[quote name='LottaBalata' timestamp='1310410179' post='3382448']
Mom's Korean. . .I tend to pay alot of attention to the Korean players.

They get inspired easily. You have to understand one thing, South Korea is about the size of Indiana, its one of the most populated countries in the world as far as its size.

These young women on the LPGA from Korea that are doing well, were inspired as children when Se Ri Pak (????) I think that was her. . .that won the US Open back in98 or 99.

Now, Y.E. Yang, K.J. Choi, especially Choi. He's been around for awhile, winning some lately.

[size="4"][b]There's not much money in Korea. Poor country. They Want to get good at the game and get the heck out.[/b][/size] They perservere, practice their butts off. Their work ethic is parallel to none.

Not a teaching method.
[/quote]

I am Korean and my father taught me how to play golf, I don't know if it's any different from a being taught by an American because I never took actual lessons. All I know, my father was all business and stressed immensely on practicing intelligently, not just mindlessly hitting balls.


I've been to Korea and it is NOT a poor country. Do you not know of all the Korean companies here in the U.S.? Korea used to be a very poor country a loooooooong time ago, not anymore. I don't know where you got the idea that Korea is a poor country, but then again I don't know your definition of poor.

[AFcelica]

[quote name='charge' timestamp='1310426512' post='3383235']
One thing that is not picked up upon is that the trend and current thinking amongst the top players on the KLPGA is that they can earn as much if not more back in Korea from corporate sponsors, endorsements and prize money vs trying to make it on the LPGA in the states, learn English, adapt to a different culture and deal with the general ambivalence from US fans....



That is why we are seeing non-familiar names like Ryu so-yeon and Seo hee-kyung popping up at majors that have world class game but have been on the fence about giving up very financially comfortable lifestyle in Korea. The current top player on the KLPGA is Ahn sun-joo and it is not clear that she will transition to the LPGA...
[/quote]

And apparently they'll push most anything. i liked Hee Kyoung Seo's hat with Hite on it, that's like if john daily wore a miller lite hat. which kind of wouldn't surprise me LOL.

agreed with the overcrowded about Seoul at least, not the entire ROK. Seoul is more populated than NYC in 1/3 the space. It's a really cool city tho!

[swbyps]

In 1995 I spent a year in Korea when I was in the Air Force. For vast numbers of the people there at that time, hard manual work is all they and their family ever knew. Its ingrained in their culture..its a part of their being. People their know what its like to have to work to survive. Their children grow up in that environment. That work ethic manifests itself in their education system and athletic programs. Here, we dont have that. Even though we do instill in our American children the value of a hard days work and that you get nothing for free in this world, its not the same. The attitude towards hard work and perseverance in Korea now is probably how it was in America during the 1940s and 1950s. Kids there will also see their success as a way to honor their parents, family, and country.

[gunny86]

I am from Korea, moved to the states when I was 10 years old. I think I may have some theories but like most people pointed it out in this forum, I believe it is mainly due to their work ethic and discipline.

Korea may be the 13th biggest economy today, things were much different only 20 to 30 years ago. Golf was only available to the uber elites or the top 1% of the population even only going back to the early 90's. I mean sure there were driving ranges here and there but it was/is extremely expensive and golf courses were virtually impossible for average salaried workers to visit on regular basis. The main reason for this probably is due high the demand for golf and lack of land. I also think that golf is highly demanded due to the fact that koreans love status quo and have some kind of cultural appreciation for precision based sports (look up Korean Archery).

Golf is still very expensive today, probably not as much as it did back before early 90's but still a big chunk of investment for average family to raise their child as a professional golfer. This leads to the child giving up everything in life and putting all their energy and focus in mastering golf. Social and parental pressure also plays an essential part of this formula, as if the child doesn't perform as expected, he or she is deemed as a failure.

I remember hearing about Jiyai Shin and her background. When her mother died in a car accident and the insurance money went to the family, that's all the money family had. Her dad decided that the only way out for them financially was to put all of that insurance money in to his daughter making her professional golfer. Imagine how much pressure she must have felt knowing that she was the only hope for her family's financial freedom.

Back when I was a kid in Korea there was a term for this mentality. It was called the "Hungry Mentality." This idea pretty much focused that when you are hungry enough and in a s*** hole, you can use your hunger as a motivation to excel and come out on top. I know that korea today is much richer country, but I think that this Hungry Mentality is still well ingrained us unlike the rest of content and complacent Americans.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnYrbXwTUX0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnYrbXwTUX0[/url]

[cuddytime]

I have a young Korean girl who is an incredible talent...

 

She, by far, has the best work/practice ethic than any other student I have ever taught...

 

Determined and disciplined...

 

She's succesful on a "national" level, and has had no "Korean" instruction...

 

If I could get most of my students to work half as hard as she does, they would see a significant improvement in their game...

btw, korea is not a 3rd world country. in terms of just materialistic items, it is pretty much on par with America...

 

btw, playing at a mediocre golf is on par with some of the most expensive resort courses (similar price tag)... probably because they don't allow golf carts, which gives you an amazing fairways to play on.

 

 

as a generation y-er... i agree with the posters above that say that a lot of kids my generation have been "pussified." to be honest, we're spoiled, we want nice things (ie. lexuses, bmws, audis) quickly and without putting actual work in.

 

Nothing wrong with method - our girls can all hit the ball.

 

There aren't similar lucrative and respectful opportunities for Korean women - the LPGA is seen as an escape from a male dominated culture...and acts as a pretty good incentive. US women have a better quality of life here in the US and have many more equally lucrative opportunities. In other words- the LPGA isn't that much better of an opportunity and doesn't offer as much of an incentive for the US IMO.

 

WHAT??!?!?!!?!?!?

 

 

 

 

+1

 

there is a much more plausible explanation for this. i think korean culture is all about something to prove. read up on the history of korea. this is arguably the most invaded country in the history of mankind.

 

also, poster above... what he said about the hungry mentality is 100% true.

[dlam]

Tae Kwon Do helps my golf game.
It balances golf.....just think about it golf is a lot of upper body power and the legs are for balance.
in TKD it is the exact opposite upper body and arms to balance and legs and feet exert the strength and power.

[nevets88]

Kind of off topic, but I flipped through a couple of Korean and Japanese instruction manuals in one of the NYC Korean owned golf shops. It was chock full of diagrams and I was really curious as to the explanations, what they had to say about impact, downswing, etc.... I wish I could read Korean and Japanese. I actually thought they were more compelling than your typical American instruction book.

[360_CS]

INSPIRATION

South Koreans on LPGA Tour.

1998-1
1999-2
2000-5
2001-5
2002-8
2003-12
2004-16
2005-24
2006-25
2007-33

1998 sparked the rise, why? In 1998 Se Ri Pak won the McDonalds LPGA Chapionship. Shot a record 11under par 273 to win and was the biggest sporting moment in her country for years. South Korean girls then thought they could acheive this kind of success. Inbee Park, 2008 US Open winner, said "I was vey inspired by Se RI Pak, at that time, not just me, but a lot of young girls picked up golf and wanted to be like her.....I liked what she did for the people in Korea....That's what really inspired me."

It just like why there are so many female Russian tennis players now. They were inspired by Anna Kournikova, a hot, 17 year old who reached the semi-final at Wimbledon. In her country in was the most watched event on TV that year.

[i]Information courtesy of 'Bounce' by Matthew Syed.[/i]

[BostonBob]

I remember a survey by a teacher's union years ago. American students ranked first only in hours of television watched; S. Korean children were 1st in math. American parents were asked what attributed to success in math. Almost 100% selected "aptitude". Almost all S. Koren parents (and parents in the high ranking math countries) selected "Effort".

There's a bigger lesson than just golf in there...

[JOEGOLFWRX]

[quote name='gunny86' timestamp='1310444851' post='3383820']

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnYrbXwTUX0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnYrbXwTUX0[/url]
[/quote]

lol, is that the korean version of [i]The Big Break
[/i]

[Par72]

Nothing wrong with method - our girls can all hit the ball.

 

There aren't similar lucrative and respectful opportunities for Korean women - the LPGA is seen as an escape from a male dominated culture...and acts as a pretty good incentive. US women have a better quality of life here in the US and have many more equally lucrative opportunities. In other words- the LPGA isn't that much better of an opportunity and doesn't offer as much of an incentive for the US IMO.

 

WHAT??!?!?!!?!?!?

 

 

 

 

The median full time American worker's full-time income is about $45K. http://en.wikipedia....e_United_States Let's say it's $50K and round it upwards. :)

 

Here is the LPGA money list: http://www.lpga.com/...px?mid=4&pid=5. From the dropdown menu look up 2010. The #95 player Julieta Granada made about $3K more than the median playing a full schedule (about $52K). By comparison - in 2010 Alex Cjeka at #95 on the PGA tour made than $900K in earnings alone http://www.golfweek....ur-money-list/.

 

Let's even assume Granada doubles her salary with another $50K in endorsements. Back out expenses for travel, food, lodging and lessons - maybe you're looking at $83K prior to taxes?

 

I'd argue that sending your daughter to college in the US will be a surer way to make $80K in the US faster and easier than trying to be a top 100 golfer in the world. Her chances increase substantially if she goes to grad school for medicine, law or business...and have an easier time getting into college or grad school than making it as a top 100 player on the LPGA.

 

However, I doubt that's the same situation for women in Korea. I know Japan very well - even if you go to college as a woman, there are not as many lucrative opportunities (in Japan for example women are still openly discriminated against in the workplace/pay scale/occupation) it is the same or worse in Korea for women. US women have it much better and easier to advance in the workplace AND be better respected. They have to leave Korea and Japan for similar opportunity.

 

Simply put - US women have more options to make better money.

 

Nono....I understood what you said.

 

 

 

[nepatriotsfan]

Work ethic and dedication is not something you can teach. The Koreans are willing to put in the time necessary to be great players. I was talking with an owner who owns a high end course and they are the home course for a local junior camp. He told me the dedication/work ethic between the US and Koreans kids is like night and day. They are not teaching anything special to the Korean kids. Like Ben Hogan used to say "The answers are in the dirt".

[Oldboy]

the secret is in the kimchee

[Cobragolf2010]

[quote name='zerofade' timestamp='1310489613' post='3385036']
the secret is in the kimchee
[/quote]

[reflection]

I love kimchee (and I'm not Korean). Actually, I love Korean food in general.

Seriously though, I agree with many of you that Asian cultures in general have dedicated work ethics.

My neighbor's kid is a junior. He practices everyday and is a scratch player. He consistently wins the local tournaments against other kids who are older and bigger than he is.

My neighbors are Thai.

It's great to see that dedication and hard work pays off. He deserves it.

[hoganfan924]

[quote name='nepatriotsfan' timestamp='1310488991' post='3384998']
[b]Work ethic and dedication is not something you can teach.[/b] The Koreans are willing to put in the time necessary to be great players. I was talking with an owner who owns a high end course and they are the home course for a local junior camp. He told me the dedication/work ethic between the US and Koreans kids is like night and day. They are not teaching anything special to the Korean kids. Like Ben Hogan used to say "The answers are in the dirt".
[/quote]

Well, obviously the Asians are teaching it to their children! I'm sure that we could make a case that there is a genetic component to "culture," and the culture of hard work, but I believe that at the individual level, this is largely a learned behavior.

[gators78]

[quote name='mikpga' timestamp='1310412199' post='3382555']
She's 15, and probably puts in a minimum of 40 hours a week in to her game...
[/quote]


[quote name='deakanutz' timestamp='1310415516' post='3382713']
Not what they are teaching its their work ethic, They are home schooled and spend all day on the course practicing every day, USA girls don't have the same work ethic
[/quote]


[quote name='rony' timestamp='1310436952' post='3383386']
I think young LPGA Korean girls practice their golf. Young LPGA American girls practice putting on their make up.
[/quote]

Not trying to pick a fight with anybody, but if I had a 15 year old daughter and she spent 40+ hours a week on anything outside of school I'd be worried. Truth is a lot of these girls are under immense pressure, never had a youth, and know absolutely nothing outside of a golf course.

[mikpga]

[quote name='hoganfan924' timestamp='1310415878' post='3382724']
[quote name='mikpga' timestamp='1310412199' post='3382555']
She's 15, and probably puts in a minimum of 40 hours a week in to her game...
[/quote]

Mike, I'm curious to know how much of that time is on the practice tee & green vs. the golf course.
[/quote]

I would say it is in the neighborhood of 60% with "ball striking & short game", and 40% on the course...

I remember taking her out for a practice round, and was blown away by the "thoroughness" of her practice routine on course...Detailed analysis of the green complexes, marking yardages, identifying targets, etc...

[msean]

The more i think about it, the more I feel like the difference between Korean girls and American girls is motivation. Honestly, if you had the drive, resources, and natural athleticism to be great at a sport wouldn't you pick one that your culture cared about. Being a professional female golfer in the US is about as prestigous as being a professional male bowler. You could be the greatest that ever lived and spend your entire life working at it, but at the end of the day the only people who care will be hardcore golf fans (and even a lot of them won't care) and your family.

[Stryker]

[quote name='msean' timestamp='1310495969' post='3385410']
The more i think about it, the more I feel like the difference between Korean girls and American girls is motivation. Honestly, if you had the drive, resources, and natural athleticism to be great at a sport wouldn't you pick one that your culture cared about. Being a professional female golfer in the US is about as prestigous as being a professional male bowler. You could be the greatest that ever lived and spend your entire life working at it, but at the end of the day the only people who care will be hardcore golf fans (and even a lot of them won't care) and your family.
[/quote]

lol, if you're just doing it for the fame most likely you won't have the drive to succeed anyway, pointless.

[gators78]

[quote name='Stryker' timestamp='1310497285' post='3385484']
[quote name='msean' timestamp='1310495969' post='3385410']
The more i think about it, the more I feel like the difference between Korean girls and American girls is motivation. Honestly, if you had the drive, resources, and natural athleticism to be great at a sport wouldn't you pick one that your culture cared about. Being a professional female golfer in the US is about as prestigous as being a professional male bowler. You could be the greatest that ever lived and spend your entire life working at it, but at the end of the day the only people who care will be hardcore golf fans (and even a lot of them won't care) and your family.
[/quote]

lol, if you're just doing it for the fame most likely you won't have the drive to succeed anyway, pointless.
[/quote]

Isn't the basis of trying to break major records ultimately for fame and recognition? Nobody wants to be the best anonymously.

[JOEGOLFWRX]

dont forget philosophy, psychology, religion, fate. people from the east generally are closer to bob rotella than people from the west. generally a different view on nature too and your place within it. all advantages imo.

[msean]

[quote name='gators78' timestamp='1310497783' post='3385516']
[quote name='Stryker' timestamp='1310497285' post='3385484']
[quote name='msean' timestamp='1310495969' post='3385410']
The more i think about it, the more I feel like the difference between Korean girls and American girls is motivation. Honestly, if you had the drive, resources, and natural athleticism to be great at a sport wouldn't you pick one that your culture cared about. Being a professional female golfer in the US is about as prestigous as being a professional male bowler. You could be the greatest that ever lived and spend your entire life working at it, but at the end of the day the only people who care will be hardcore golf fans (and even a lot of them won't care) and your family.
[/quote]

lol, if you're just doing it for the fame most likely you won't have the drive to succeed anyway, pointless.
[/quote]

[b]Isn't the basis of trying to break major records ultimately for fame and recognition? Nobody wants to be the best anonymously[/b].
[/quote]

Exactly. I think that recognition is what really m,otivates

[gators78]

[quote name='msean' timestamp='1310500109' post='3385677']
[quote name='gators78' timestamp='1310497783' post='3385516']
[quote name='Stryker' timestamp='1310497285' post='3385484']
[quote name='msean' timestamp='1310495969' post='3385410']
The more i think about it, the more I feel like the difference between Korean girls and American girls is motivation. Honestly, if you had the drive, resources, and natural athleticism to be great at a sport wouldn't you pick one that your culture cared about. Being a professional female golfer in the US is about as prestigous as being a professional male bowler. You could be the greatest that ever lived and spend your entire life working at it, but at the end of the day the only people who care will be hardcore golf fans (and even a lot of them won't care) and your family.
[/quote]

lol, if you're just doing it for the fame most likely you won't have the drive to succeed anyway, pointless.
[/quote]

[b]Isn't the basis of trying to break major records ultimately for fame and recognition? Nobody wants to be the best anonymously[/b].
[/quote]

Exactly. I think that recognition is what really m,otivates
[/quote]

Fame is recognition, that's what I'm saying.

[msean]

[quote name='gators78' timestamp='1310501207' post='3385762']
[quote name='msean' timestamp='1310500109' post='3385677']
[quote name='gators78' timestamp='1310497783' post='3385516']
[quote name='Stryker' timestamp='1310497285' post='3385484']
[quote name='msean' timestamp='1310495969' post='3385410']
The more i think about it, the more I feel like the difference between Korean girls and American girls is motivation. Honestly, if you had the drive, resources, and natural athleticism to be great at a sport wouldn't you pick one that your culture cared about. Being a professional female golfer in the US is about as prestigous as being a professional male bowler. You could be the greatest that ever lived and spend your entire life working at it, but at the end of the day the only people who care will be hardcore golf fans (and even a lot of them won't care) and your family.
[/quote]

lol, if you're just doing it for the fame most likely you won't have the drive to succeed anyway, pointless.
[/quote]

[b]Isn't the basis of trying to break major records ultimately for fame and recognition? Nobody wants to be the best anonymously[/b].
[/quote]

Exactly. I think that recognition is what really m,otivates
[/quote]

Fame is recognition, that's what I'm saying.
[/quote]

Right, I was agreeing with you. My last post didn't really make sense