Snap hooks

[darkhelmet]

What causes them / leads to them???

Is there a standard swing fault that leads to snap hooks? I got a wicked case of them on Saturday with my driver.

The guy I got paired up with mentioned at one point on the back 9 that it sometimes happens to him when he gets too quick -- I went back to my old "trick" of pausing fractionally longer at the top of my backswing and I definitely got settled down over the last 5 holes. Hit the fairway on all 4 par 4's coming in, and with maximum distance on every hole.

I don't have any video of my swing -- just hoping to understand what might be going on from a mechanical point of view that would lead to this. If it helps any, my normal miss with the driver is a block/fade, and my best swings seem to result in a slight draw. Also, I've only been playing sporadically this summer because of a problem with tennis elbow, so there's a chance that the injury could be playing some small part.

To be honest, I don't even know why the extra pause seems to help -- maybe gets my lower body moving before my arms and gets everything back to (somewhat) on-plane?

If anybody has any suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

Thanks.

[golfsavvy]

There may be many things that cause them, but the 3 that come to my mind first are

1) a driver with a loft that is too low that is not hit at the bottom of the arc, or slightly on the upswing if you're in that camp...

2) the clubface not square to the hands but is closed to the hand positions. Significantly severe hooks start with the clubface - hands relationship.

3) standing too far from the ball creating an over-extension and roll of the wrists. There should be an angle created by the arms and shaft at address, suggesting that you are not too far away...

[fireguyfrank58]

[quote name='golfsavvy' timestamp='1316443081' post='3573708']
There may be many things that cause them, but the 3 that come to my mind first are

1) a driver with a loft that is too low that is not hit at the bottom of the arc, or slightly on the upswing if you're in that camp...

2) the clubface not square to the hands but is closed to the hand positions. Significantly severe hooks start with the clubface - hands relationship.

3) standing too far from the ball creating an over-extension and roll of the wrists. There should be an angle created by the arms and shaft at address, suggesting that you are not too far away...
[/quote]
+1 sound like exactly everything I do to cause my hooks! So easy to diagnose, so hard to change!

[golfsavvy]

[quote name='fireguyfrank58' timestamp='1316444643' post='3573756']<br />[quote name='golfsavvy' timestamp='1316443081' post='3573708']<br />There may be many things that cause them, but the 3 that come to my mind first are <br /><br />1)  a driver with a loft that is too low that is not hit at the bottom of the arc, or slightly on the upswing if you're in that camp...<br /><br />2)  the clubface not square to the hands but is closed to the hand positions.  Significantly severe hooks start with the clubface - hands relationship. <br /><br />3) standing too far from the ball creating an over-extension and roll of the wrists.  There should be an angle created by the arms and shaft at address, suggesting that you are not too far away...<br />[/quote]<br />+1 sound like exactly everything I do to cause my hooks! So easy to diagnose, so hard to change!<br />[/quote]<br /><br /><br />]

First, try spinning the grip in your hands to open the clubface before you swing. Then, tee the ball somewhat higher and learn to hit it higher -- adding trajectory is easier than subtracting it with a driver as this will help you find the lowest part of the arc if not slightly on the upswing. Hitting the high bomb is easier than hitting the low bullet.

[darkhelmet]

[quote name='golfsavvy' timestamp='1316444889' post='3573766']
[quote name='fireguyfrank58' timestamp='1316444643' post='3573756']<br />[quote name='golfsavvy' timestamp='1316443081' post='3573708']<br />There may be many things that cause them, but the 3 that come to my mind first are <br /><br />1) a driver with a loft that is too low that is not hit at the bottom of the arc, or slightly on the upswing if you're in that camp...<br /><br />2) the clubface not square to the hands but is closed to the hand positions. Significantly severe hooks start with the clubface - hands relationship. <br /><br />3) standing too far from the ball creating an over-extension and roll of the wrists. There should be an angle created by the arms and shaft at address, suggesting that you are not too far away...<br />[/quote]<br />+1 sound like exactly everything I do to cause my hooks! So easy to diagnose, so hard to change!<br />[/quote]<br /><br /><br />]

First, try spinning the grip in your hands to open the clubface before you swing. Then, tee the ball somewhat higher and learn to hit it higher -- adding trajectory is easier than subtracting it with a driver as this will help you find the lowest part of the arc if not slightly on the upswing. Hitting the high bomb is easier than hitting the low bullet.
[/quote]


I think you guys may be on to something with the hands/face relationship. Playing so infrequently lately, I've been finding myself feeling uncomfortable standing over a lot of shots, leading to constantly regripping at address.

My last time out before this snap-hooking fiasco (over 3 weeks ago), I was trying to go through a pre-shot routine of taking my grip away from the ball, making sure I was comfortable, then addressing the ball and hitting without letting myself adjust my grip. Shot 75 -- on a very easy course (6400-yd par 70 with almost no trouble), but still my best score ever.

This last round, however, I guess I was back into more of my standard address-grip-hit routine, and I didn't even keep score after the first few holes because I was so inconsistent. Just went back over my round, and on the holes I hit driver I went:

[list][*]block right OB[*]bomb down the middle (3rd shot after previous OB)[*]block OB right[*]block right (3rd shot after previous OB)[*]hook[*]snap hook OB[*]bomb (3rd shot after previous OB)[*]hook[*]snap hook[*]snap hook[*]and then the last 4 were all fantastic drives -- straight or very slight draw (and these were all the longest, toughest par 4s on the course)[/list]So, overall, of the 11 holes on which I hit driver, only on the last 4 did I have a good first tee shot. I also seem to remember adjusting to having the ball a little further back in my stance for those last 4 holes -- can playing the ball too far forward with your driver also lead to hooks (similar to the suggestion above about standing too far from the ball)?

Thanks for all the suggestions so far.

[mr75204]

You are severly off plane and your hands are trying to play catchup. This causes your wrists to turn over very quickly at the bottom of the arc

[fireguyfrank58]

[quote name='darkhelmet' timestamp='1316449596' post='3573963']
[quote name='golfsavvy' timestamp='1316444889' post='3573766']
[quote name='fireguyfrank58' timestamp='1316444643' post='3573756']<br />[quote name='golfsavvy' timestamp='1316443081' post='3573708']<br />There may be many things that cause them, but the 3 that come to my mind first are <br /><br />1) a driver with a loft that is too low that is not hit at the bottom of the arc, or slightly on the upswing if you're in that camp...<br /><br />2) the clubface not square to the hands but is closed to the hand positions. Significantly severe hooks start with the clubface - hands relationship. <br /><br />3) standing too far from the ball creating an over-extension and roll of the wrists. There should be an angle created by the arms and shaft at address, suggesting that you are not too far away...<br />[/quote]<br />+1 sound like exactly everything I do to cause my hooks! So easy to diagnose, so hard to change!<br />[/quote]<br /><br /><br />]

First, try spinning the grip in your hands to open the clubface before you swing. Then, tee the ball somewhat higher and learn to hit it higher -- adding trajectory is easier than subtracting it with a driver as this will help you find the lowest part of the arc if not slightly on the upswing. Hitting the high bomb is easier than hitting the low bullet.
[/quote]



I think you guys may be on to something with the hands/face relationship. Playing so infrequently lately, I've been finding myself feeling uncomfortable standing over a lot of shots, leading to constantly regripping at address.

My last time out before this snap-hooking fiasco (over 3 weeks ago), I was trying to go through a pre-shot routine of taking my grip away from the ball, making sure I was comfortable, then addressing the ball and hitting without letting myself adjust my grip. Shot 75 -- on a very easy course (6400-yd par 70 with almost no trouble), but still my best score ever.

This last round, however, I guess I was back into more of my standard address-grip-hit routine, and I didn't even keep score after the first few holes because I was so inconsistent. Just went back over my round, and on the holes I hit driver I went:

[list][*]block right OB[*]bomb down the middle (3rd shot after previous OB)[*]block OB right[*]block right (3rd shot after previous OB)[*]hook[*]snap hook OB[*]bomb (3rd shot after previous OB)[*]hook[*]snap hook[*]snap hook[*]and then the last 4 were all fantastic drives -- straight or very slight draw (and these were all the longest, toughest par 4s on the course)[/list]So, overall, of the 11 holes on which I hit driver, only on the last 4 did I have a good first tee shot. I also seem to remember adjusting to having the ball a little further back in my stance for those last 4 holes -- can playing the ball too far forward with your driver also lead to hooks (similar to the suggestion above about standing too far from the ball)?

Thanks for all the suggestions so far.
[/quote]
Your description of your round sounds alot like my bad rounds. I know it's the old duct tape/ bandade fix but I went to the SF TP 2.0 for it's strong fade bias and 5 wraps of tape on my grips to help. I wish I could play a non fade bias square diver but right now I just know I can't. I bombed the G20 today in the sim but I know in my heart I'd hook it so far left it would hit me in the back of the head!

[TM Superdeep]

Have had same issues. Have been gaming the Burner 2.0TP with 5 wraps under right hand. To be honest its a bomb. Can still work it either way but seems to have eliminated hooks. Although it wasnt purely a club issue. Now im going to Tip the Matrix HD6 3/4 inch and get it playing 45.25 and slighty stronger. Just a note. I play all my clubs with 5 wraps under right hand and 2 under left. It elimintes the taper which helps the right hand release better.[quote name='fireguyfrank58' timestamp='1316458323' post='3574438']
[quote name='darkhelmet' timestamp='1316449596' post='3573963']
[quote name='golfsavvy' timestamp='1316444889' post='3573766']
[quote name='fireguyfrank58' timestamp='1316444643' post='3573756']<br />[quote name='golfsavvy' timestamp='1316443081' post='3573708']<br />There may be many things that cause them, but the 3 that come to my mind first are <br /><br />1) a driver with a loft that is too low that is not hit at the bottom of the arc, or slightly on the upswing if you're in that camp...<br /><br />2) the clubface not square to the hands but is closed to the hand positions. Significantly severe hooks start with the clubface - hands relationship. <br /><br />3) standing too far from the ball creating an over-extension and roll of the wrists. There should be an angle created by the arms and shaft at address, suggesting that you are not too far away...<br />[/quote]<br />+1 sound like exactly everything I do to cause my hooks! So easy to diagnose, so hard to change!<br />[/quote]<br /><br /><br />]

First, try spinning the grip in your hands to open the clubface before you swing. Then, tee the ball somewhat higher and learn to hit it higher -- adding trajectory is easier than subtracting it with a driver as this will help you find the lowest part of the arc if not slightly on the upswing. Hitting the high bomb is easier than hitting the low bullet.
[/quote]



I think you guys may be on to something with the hands/face relationship. Playing so infrequently lately, I've been finding myself feeling uncomfortable standing over a lot of shots, leading to constantly regripping at address.

My last time out before this snap-hooking fiasco (over 3 weeks ago), I was trying to go through a pre-shot routine of taking my grip away from the ball, making sure I was comfortable, then addressing the ball and hitting without letting myself adjust my grip. Shot 75 -- on a very easy course (6400-yd par 70 with almost no trouble), but still my best score ever.

This last round, however, I guess I was back into more of my standard address-grip-hit routine, and I didn't even keep score after the first few holes because I was so inconsistent. Just went back over my round, and on the holes I hit driver I went:

[list][*]block right OB[*]bomb down the middle (3rd shot after previous OB)[*]block OB right[*]block right (3rd shot after previous OB)[*]hook[*]snap hook OB[*]bomb (3rd shot after previous OB)[*]hook[*]snap hook[*]snap hook[*]and then the last 4 were all fantastic drives -- straight or very slight draw (and these were all the longest, toughest par 4s on the course)[/list]So, overall, of the 11 holes on which I hit driver, only on the last 4 did I have a good first tee shot. I also seem to remember adjusting to having the ball a little further back in my stance for those last 4 holes -- can playing the ball too far forward with your driver also lead to hooks (similar to the suggestion above about standing too far from the ball)?

Thanks for all the suggestions so far.
[/quote]
Your description of your round sounds alot like my bad rounds. I know it's the old duct tape/ bandade fix but I went to the SF TP 2.0 for it's strong fade bias and 5 wraps of tape on my grips to help. I wish I could play a non fade bias square diver but right now I just know I can't. I bombed the G20 today in the sim but I know in my heart I'd hook it so far left it would hit me in the back of the head!
[/quote]

[silver77]

I hate snap hooks.. i have fixed then bye starting the downswing with the hips first and the arms will follow and cure the hook mid round

[abc]

Rather than adopt the Golfwrx-way of blaming the equipment used and finding a magical cure in the form of a new club or stiffer shaft, I prefer to focus on the golfer's swing flaws itself.

I find that snap hooks are usually the result of quick arms and a quick flipping over of the hands. These actions usually result when the golfer has a weak core, poor torso rotation, and sloppy weight transition to the left side of the body preceding the downswing. Lack of a proper weight shift and torso rotation usually result in a golfer swinging quickly with his arms and flipping his hands over to generate clubhead speed. What the golfer usually generates instead is a snap hook.

[shankapotamus]

[quote name='abc' timestamp='1316492824' post='3576305']
Rather than adopt the Golfwrx-way of blaming the equipment used and finding a magical cure in the form of a new club or stiffer shaft, I prefer to focus on the golfer's swing flaws itself.

I find that snap hooks are usually the result of quick arms and quick flipping over of the hands. These actions usually result when the golfer has a weak core, poor torso rotation, and sloppy weight transition to the left side of the body preceding the downswing. Lack of a proper weight shift and torso rotation usually result in a golfer swinging quickly with his arms and flipping his hands over to generate clubhead speed. What the golfer usually generates instead is a snap hook.
[/quote]


The truth really hurts.........the swing is the thing!!

[darkhelmet]

[quote name='abc' timestamp='1316492824' post='3576305']
Rather than adopt the Golfwrx-way of blaming the equipment used and finding a magical cure in the form of a new club or stiffer shaft, I prefer to focus on the golfer's swing flaws itself.

I find that snap hooks are usually the result of quick arms and a quick flipping over of the hands. These actions usually result when the golfer has a weak core, poor torso rotation, and sloppy weight transition to the left side of the body preceding the downswing. Lack of a proper weight shift and torso rotation usually result in a golfer swinging quickly with his arms and flipping his hands over to generate clubhead speed. What the golfer usually generates instead is a snap hook.
[/quote]

I'm with you on the equipment comment -- I went through a fitting on the range this spring and ended up with a setup that works great for me when I put a halfway decent swing on the ball (910 D2 9.5 w/ MFT ahina 82s). I don't need to change equipment, as evidenced by the last 5 holes of my round. Got the driver settled down and hit the ball in the fairway anywhere between 280 and 310 on the 4 longest par 4s on the course (but only hit 1 green, which is a whole different conversation)

OK, so if I'm getting sloppy in my transition, what might I be able to do to tighten that up? The two main things I think about with the driver are setting up with a bit of spine tilt away from the ball and making a full shoulder turn. From that point on I generally just try to hit the ball. I do notice that if I consciously pause at the top for a second, things seem to work out better.

Problem is, I don't understand what that pause is doing for me. I would think that it somehow allows my lower body to start working before my upper body starts down, but I'm not sure.

I understand that it's difficult to give advice without video of my swing, but would I be better off to just keep going with that "pause at the top" thought since it seems to help? Or should I focus on what that pause leads to and understand the underlying problem? If it is an issue of sloppy weight shift and torso rotation, is there a drill or a trigger that I can use to start my downswing more consistently?

Thanks.

[abc]

I think that pause at the top of your backswing allows you time to first shift your hips laterally to the left towards the target and then fire your hips and turn your waist to the left. All this allows your arms and hands to drop into the "slot", which in turn leads to the proper impact position.

The key to tightening up your swing is to work on building a strong core. A weak core will result in your relying on other body mechanics (fast arms, flipping of hands) to generate clubhead speed. Problem is these things also lead to duck hooks and a host of swing flaws.

Once the proper body mechanics are ingrained in your swing, you can eliminate the pause completely.

It's all quite simple when given some thought. And, it doesn't require buying new clubs every 3-6 months or so.

[Cmartingolf]

[quote name='darkhelmet' timestamp='1316442264' post='3573670']
Is there a standard swing fault that leads to snap hooks? I got a wicked case of them on Saturday with my driver.

The guy I got paired up with mentioned at one point on the back 9 that it sometimes happens to him when he gets too quick -- I went back to my old "trick" of pausing fractionally longer at the top of my backswing and I definitely got settled down over the last 5 holes. Hit the fairway on all 4 par 4's coming in, and with maximum distance on every hole.

I don't have any video of my swing -- just hoping to understand what might be going on from a mechanical point of view that would lead to this. If it helps any, my normal miss with the driver is a block/fade, and my best swings seem to result in a slight draw. Also, I've only been playing sporadically this summer because of a problem with tennis elbow, so there's a chance that the injury could be playing some small part.

To be honest, I don't even know why the extra pause seems to help -- maybe gets my lower body moving before my arms and gets everything back to (somewhat) on-plane?

If anybody has any suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

Thanks.


[/quote]

As simple and stupid as this answer is, the club face is too closed to the path.

Why?

Grip: too strong to face or too weak to face (rare; wicked over-rotation of the face to compensate)
Path: too inside out
Sequence: ground up, which is good. But...the club's mass (head) can get trapped behind you and creates an inside out path.

Net: snap hookers [b][u]generally[/u][/b] are strong people with strong legs and strong cores. I can snap the daylights out of it on occasion and contrary to one posters comments, my abs and core are strong.

Their sequence gets whacked per above, the club drops under the plane (orientation way inside out) and rather than hit it high and right, they over rotate the face and the ball goes low and left because the face is King.

[Cmartingolf]

btw... your pause helps sync your arms to your body so you don't get too inside out. Good luck.

[Hifade]

[quote name='Cmartingolf' timestamp='1316558517' post='3578368']
[quote name='darkhelmet' timestamp='1316442264' post='3573670']
Is there a standard swing fault that leads to snap hooks? I got a wicked case of them on Saturday with my driver.

The guy I got paired up with mentioned at one point on the back 9 that it sometimes happens to him when he gets too quick -- I went back to my old "trick" of pausing fractionally longer at the top of my backswing and I definitely got settled down over the last 5 holes. Hit the fairway on all 4 par 4's coming in, and with maximum distance on every hole.

I don't have any video of my swing -- just hoping to understand what might be going on from a mechanical point of view that would lead to this. If it helps any, my normal miss with the driver is a block/fade, and my best swings seem to result in a slight draw. Also, I've only been playing sporadically this summer because of a problem with tennis elbow, so there's a chance that the injury could be playing some small part.

To be honest, I don't even know why the extra pause seems to help -- maybe gets my lower body moving before my arms and gets everything back to (somewhat) on-plane?

If anybody has any suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

Thanks.


[/quote]

As simple and stupid as this answer is, the club face is too closed to the path.

Why?

Grip: too strong to face or too weak to face (rare; wicked over-rotation of the face to compensate)
Path: too inside out
Sequence: ground up, which is good. But...the club's mass (head) can get trapped behind you and creates an inside out path.

Net: snap hookers [b][u]generally[/u][/b] are strong people with strong legs and strong cores. I can snap the daylights out of it on occasion and contrary to one posters comments, my abs and core are strong.

Their sequence gets whacked per above, the club drops under the plane (orientation way inside out) and rather than hit it high and right, they over rotate the face and the ball goes low and left because the face is King.
[/quote]


[quote name='Cmartingolf' timestamp='1316558582' post='3578369']
btw... your pause helps sync your arms to your body so you don't get too inside out. Good luck.
[/quote]

cmartin is SPOT ON!

[QCart]

Swing plane problem. You might be taking the club to inside on the takeaway. If you were to video your swing, from a down the line view, draw a line from the shaft up through the body. On the takeaway the club should stay on that line and not come to the inside. If it does, you could end up with a blocked shot, or if your wrist over correct you will get the snap hook.

[Tour50]

[quote name='abc' timestamp='1316492824' post='3576305']
Rather than adopt the Golfwrx-way of blaming the equipment used and finding a magical cure in the form of a new club or stiffer shaft, I prefer to focus on the golfer's swing flaws itself.

I find that snap hooks are usually the result of quick arms and a quick flipping over of the hands. These actions usually result when the golfer has a weak core, poor torso rotation, and sloppy weight transition to the left side of the body preceding the downswing. Lack of a proper weight shift and torso rotation usually result in a golfer swinging quickly with his arms and flipping his hands over to generate clubhead speed. What the golfer usually generates instead is a snap hook.
[/quote]

I went through a bad run of snap hooks and other than the above being true the main culprit was,
[quote]standing too far from the ball creating an over-extension and roll of the wrists. There should be an angle created by the arms and shaft at address, suggesting that you are not too far away...

[/quote]

Regards,
Dan