Kevin Na?

[MtlJeff]

i actually think the posted link of TW looks more like a whiff then Kevin Na's. I mentioned in the other thread about it and i'll say it here, Na has a pretty bad rap for being a slow player and a bit of a headcase, and he's heavily critisized on this board. Generally we love to pile on guys like that, my feeling is he could've missed the ball by 3 feet and the same people would have been saying it's a swing. I've never seen a 10 handicap miss a ball with a 460cc driver by that much. It's just not possible it was a swing. If Steve Stricker did the same thing there would not even be a thread about it

[Blixten]

[quote name='Drijver' timestamp='1317583046' post='3615677']
[quote name='Potatohead' timestamp='1317582601' post='3615653']


You take his word for it. If he's lying, he's a jerk, but the stroke is based in intent. He either meant to hit, or he didn't and only he knows.

Also, there is no way a PGA Tour player would ever whiff a ball that badly while trying to hit it, period.
[/quote]

I would also think there is no way a PGA tour player would card a 16 at a par 4 .
[/quote]


20 under par after 59 holes, i guess he knows how to hit a golfball.

[OldTomMorris]

it could be a yip with a driver, why is that not possible?

[Doublebuck]

I never find myself hoping against someone, that is until now. Painful to watch.

[Drijver]

[quote]


20 under par after 59 holes, i guess he knows how to hit a golfball.
[/quote]

I'm not questioning his all round ability, I'm merely stating that he does some erratic unpredictable stuff from time to time.

[QEight]

[quote name='Drijver' timestamp='1317583575' post='3615711']And if this is a question of ethics and etiquette (to abuse or not abuse the rules) then I have a hard time accepting someone's word who is not known for his professional attitude and his personality in general.
[/quote]


Have you ever played with someone you do not know at all? If so, do you suspect them all the time of wrong doing? What about the other way around, why do you think your fellow competitors would trust you, when you say coming back from the woods that you hit only once and the other sounds they heard were only practice shots?

Or do you mean, that Na is known for not obeying rules?

[Nashy]

If he has addressed the ball and then makes a swing but doesn't hit the ball he should be given a penalty, he knows it causes problems so why keep doing it? Idiot! give him a penalty once and he wont do it again!

[BNich0622]

Seems like a whiny little baby.

I guess finishing the swing without hitting it would be the equivalent to a pitcher finishing his pitch after time has been called to reduce risk of injury but suddenly stopping in the middle of the pitch. I would imagine the thinking is similar in this situation. Although I thought that still counts as a stroke though.

[QEight]

If he has addressed the ball and then makes a swing but doesn't hit the ball he should be given a penalty, he knows it causes problems so why keep doing it? Idiot! give him a penalty once and he wont do it again!

 

On what grounds he should be given the penalty, because it causes problems on GolfWRX?

 

14/1.5 Intent to Strike Ball Ceases During Downswing; Club Not Stopped But Path of Clubhead Altered to Avoid Striking Ball

 

Q. A player begins his downswing with the intention of striking the ball but decides during the downswing not to strike the ball. The player is unable to stop the club before it reaches the ball, but he is able to swing intentionally over the top of the ball. Is the player deemed to have made a stroke?

 

A. No. The player is considered to have checked his downswing voluntarily by altering the path of his downswing and missing the ball even though the swing carried the clubhead beyond the ball.

 

If the player had not successfully checked his downswing (i.e., he had struck the ball), he is considered to have made a stroke.

 

Any doubt regarding the player's intent must be resolved against the player.

[Potatohead]

[quote name='Drijver' timestamp='1317583046' post='3615677']
I would also think there is no way a PGA tour player would card a 16 at a par 4 .
[/quote]


I didn't realize that 16 included a whiff from the tee box.

[MtlJeff]

is anyone watching the coverage? They just showed Na taking a "practice" swing before hitting an iron shot. Personally i think he was trying to hit the ball and it's a joke he hasn't been penalized for it.

as i'm typing this he just took 2 "practice" swings before hitting the ball out of the rough. What a joke. Obviously both times he was trying to hit the ball and he's just a liar for pretending he isn't. That's like 3-4 whiffs already this round. I can't wait to see his press conference where he denies all of these "practice swings" were really attempts to hit the ball. What a loser

[moonshine]

It is evident to me in the video he was distracted and pulled off the path in order to miss. Within the rules and weird at the same time. I would only play with a guy like him once. He does seem to need a bit of help, and there is nothing wrong with that.

[Drijver]

[quote name='Potatohead' timestamp='1317585771' post='3615845']
[quote name='Drijver' timestamp='1317583046' post='3615677']
I would also think there is no way a PGA tour player would card a 16 at a par 4 .
[/quote]


I didn't realize that 16 included a whiff from the tee box.
[/quote]

I'll repeat what I said earlier, I'm stating that as an example of an incident where he has done things out of the ordinary of what we expect..

[KevCarter]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1317585883' post='3615857']
is anyone watching the coverage? They just showed Na taking a "practice" swing before hitting an iron shot. Personally i think he was trying to hit the ball and it's a joke he hasn't been penalized for it.

as i'm typing this he just took 2 "practice" swings before hitting the ball out of the rough. What a joke. Obviously both times he was trying to hit the ball and he's just a liar for pretending he isn't. That's like 3-4 whiffs already this round. I can't wait to see his press conference where he denies all of these "practice swings" were really attempts to hit the ball. What a loser
[/quote]

I think we should take him out back and give him a whoopin'. :-)

[MtlJeff]

just typing his name into youtube reveals how crazy slow he is aswell. It's really crazy the tour hasn't kicked him out yet. Just take a look at how long it takes him to swing the club. 28 seconds for a full swing, most golfer do it 10 times quicker than this. It's no wonder he plays so slow

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8foiZj4_7TA"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=8foiZj4_7TA[/url]

[Cwing]

[quote name='Drijver' timestamp='1317583575' post='3615711']
[quote name='kevcarter ' timestamp='1317581649' post='3615619']


Wow, you learned it incorrectly, hence, the Tour should apply it incorrectly. Does that really make sense to you? If it does, you're right, very sad...

Kevin
[/quote]

I have been taught a whiff shot is a stroke, to not intentionally hit the ball would either mean stopping the swing or taking a swing in any other location other than at address.

And if this is a question of ethics and etiquette (to abuse or not abuse the rules) then I have a hard time accepting someone's word who is not known for his professional attitude and his personality in general.
[/quote]



If he swung and missed the ball but intended to hit the ball then yes, that would be a stroke.


The rules are posted in this thread. If you become distracted you can stop your swing or change your clubpath to not hit the ball and you are playing with in the rules of golf. There is no breach and there is no issue and it is the players call as only he knows what was intended.

[gators78]

If he has addressed the ball and then makes a swing but doesn't hit the ball he should be given a penalty, he knows it causes problems so why keep doing it? Idiot! give him a penalty once and he wont do it again!

 

On what grounds he should be given the penalty, because it causes problems on GolfWRX?

 

14/1.5 Intent to Strike Ball Ceases During Downswing; Club Not Stopped But Path of Clubhead Altered to Avoid Striking Ball

 

Q. A player begins his downswing with the intention of striking the ball but decides during the downswing not to strike the ball. The player is unable to stop the club before it reaches the ball, but he is able to swing intentionally over the top of the ball. Is the player deemed to have made a stroke?

 

A. No. The player is considered to have checked his downswing voluntarily by altering the path of his downswing and missing the ball even though the swing carried the clubhead beyond the ball.

 

If the player had not successfully checked his downswing (i.e., he had struck the ball), he is considered to have made a stroke.

 

Any doubt regarding the player's intent must be resolved against the player.

 

WIth regards to the answer they touched upon this on the telecast, apparently from Kevin Na and the Tour Officials if he DOES attempt to check/alter/stop his swing and he for some reason still hit the ball he WOULD NOT be penalized for it. Never realized it but that's pretty wild.

[melo]

[quote name='PGArox' timestamp='1317530955' post='3614137']
[quote name='PGArox' timestamp='1317528411' post='3614023']
It is the only time I have ever seen a male pro golfer crying over a loss.
[/quote]

Check that. On second thought, there was Brandt Snedeker at The Masters, and Hunter Mahan at the Ryder Cup. All embarrassing displays.
[/quote]

I see nothing whatsoever embarrassing about either of these circumstances. If you've ever been to a Ryder cup as a fan, you know that it is the most charged atmosphere in all of golf, and that winning for your country is every bit as important or more-so for these guys than winning majors. Seve always said he was just as proud of his Ryder cup record as he was for his majors. Hunter crying because he felt like he let down an ENTIRE COUNTRY shows that he is patriotic, a competitor, and human. Snedeker at the Master's was no different. I remember Jordan crying when he won his first title after his father died, Carl Lewis crying at the olympics, many players weeping openly when they win OR LOSE the superbowl, world series, etc. The only thing it tells me when an athlete cries after losing is that they want to win so badly it physically and emotionally pains them not to. It's one of the reasons they are professional athletes to begin with. Passion, determination, and talent = success.

Do a quick google search of "athletes crying" and you'll get Kobe, Hines Ward, Tom Brady, Adrian Peterson and the list goes on. If anything, losing a golf tournament is more emotionally devastating bc it isn't a team sport, the blame is all on you.

[minhjn]

well, he earned it today

[raymo]

[quote name='minhjn' timestamp='1317596625' post='3616399']
well, he earned it today
[/quote]

Good for him. Maybe winning will quiet his mind a little bit now that he's over the hump?

[Bob57]

Kevin now has 1 more PGA tour win than anybody on this thread will ever have... But they do know the rules......

[rafal]

Kevin now has 1 more PGA tour win than anybody on this thread will ever have... But they do know the rules......

 

They still think they drive past him and in their world that tops all else.

[Doublebuck]

He sure can roll his rock. Gutsy performance, I even tried pulling for him. Difficult.

[scotto69]

Weird. Can't say I like him, but he plays great and he's is now a PGA tour winner in the same year he was miked live and made one of the worst scores in professional golf history.

There are a ton of quality golfers out there, but 99 percent of them really aren't that interesting to pay attention to. At least he is different.

[Maliboothby]

If he has addressed the ball and then makes a swing but doesn't hit the ball he should be given a penalty, he knows it causes problems so why keep doing it? Idiot! give him a penalty once and he wont do it again!

 

On what grounds he should be given the penalty, because it causes problems on GolfWRX?

 

14/1.5 Intent to Strike Ball Ceases During Downswing; Club Not Stopped But Path of Clubhead Altered to Avoid Striking Ball

 

Q. A player begins his downswing with the intention of striking the ball but decides during the downswing not to strike the ball. The player is unable to stop the club before it reaches the ball, but he is able to swing intentionally over the top of the ball. Is the player deemed to have made a stroke?

 

A. No. The player is considered to have checked his downswing voluntarily by altering the path of his downswing and missing the ball even though the swing carried the clubhead beyond the ball.

 

If the player had not successfully checked his downswing (i.e., he had struck the ball), he is considered to have made a stroke.

 

Any doubt regarding the player's intent must be resolved against the player.

 

WIth regards to the answer they touched upon this on the telecast, apparently from Kevin Na and the Tour Officials if he DOES attempt to check/alter/stop his swing and he for some reason still hit the ball he WOULD NOT be penalized for it. Never realized it but that's pretty wild.

So if he had accidentally hit the ball a couple of hundred yards out, this would be treated the same as tapping the ball off the tee?

 

What about a ball that is not on the tee and is in play and is moved in such a way?

[DocChoi]

If he has addressed the ball and then makes a swing but doesn't hit the ball he should be given a penalty, he knows it causes problems so why keep doing it? Idiot! give him a penalty once and he wont do it again!

 

On what grounds he should be given the penalty, because it causes problems on GolfWRX?

 

14/1.5 Intent to Strike Ball Ceases During Downswing; Club Not Stopped But Path of Clubhead Altered to Avoid Striking Ball

 

Q. A player begins his downswing with the intention of striking the ball but decides during the downswing not to strike the ball. The player is unable to stop the club before it reaches the ball, but he is able to swing intentionally over the top of the ball. Is the player deemed to have made a stroke?

 

A. No. The player is considered to have checked his downswing voluntarily by altering the path of his downswing and missing the ball even though the swing carried the clubhead beyond the ball.

 

If the player had not successfully checked his downswing (i.e., he had struck the ball), he is considered to have made a stroke.

 

Any doubt regarding the player's intent must be resolved against the player.

 

WIth regards to the answer they touched upon this on the telecast, apparently from Kevin Na and the Tour Officials if he DOES attempt to check/alter/stop his swing and he for some reason still hit the ball he WOULD NOT be penalized for it. Never realized it but that's pretty wild.

So if he had accidentally hit the ball a couple of hundred yards out, this would be treated the same as tapping the ball off the tee?

 

What about a ball that is not on the tee and is in play and is moved in such a way?

 

When the ball is on the Tee box it is NOT in play as of yet. If you accidentally hit it with a practice swing, or addressing the ball, it does not count as a stroke. You may re-tee it, no stroke, no penalty. If the player swings and never intended to hit it, it is not a stroke, even if he accidentally hits it.

 

Once the ball is swung at intentionally, it is in play. If you you now hit it while the ball is in play, it counts even if it was by mistake. If you hit your tee shot, the ball is in play. Any accidental touching of the ball at that point would count as a stroke.

[zp13]

Judging by his actions, He's going to end up pulling a Ron Artest on his caddy one day. If I were looping for him, I'd keep that 9-iron handy. I'm just saying.

[Maliboothby]

I think Na would have faced a much harder time if he had come extremely close to hitting the ball and there would have been outrage if he had actually hit the ball and he claimed it was a check swing.

"any doubt" sounds like a subjective opinion rather than any sort of burden of proof.


[size="3"]If the player had not successfully checked his downswing [b](i.e., he had struck the ball),[/b] he is considered to have made a stroke.
[/size][size="4"][b][size="5"]Any doubt[/size][/b] regarding the player's intent must be resolved [b][size="5"]against[/size][/b] the player.[/size]

[jeepin01]

I've been reading this topic with interest the last couple days because everyone seems to make comments on Na based on watching him on TV. I'll readily admit he comes off as a PITA. That being said, I went to the 2010 Masters and watched practice rounds for a couple days. There were two guys that stuck out as being super friendly to the fans. One was Miguel Angel Jimenez and the other was Kevin Na. I distinctly remember leaving the course on Tuesday with the other 3 guys I was with and we were discussing the day. One of the stories that came up multiple times was Na on the 4th tee joking around with fans, smiling, and making a couple of self-deprecating jokes before striping a couple of hybrids. I recognize this is a pretty short length of time to make an accurate assessment of someone, but it's worth noting that not everyone has a negative view of him. I was rooting for him down the stretch even though I like Nick Watney.

[noblades4me]

I love watching golf but when I switched it on and saw him in contention I switched it off and didn't watch it again. The guy is a complete tool and I don't know any golfer who thinks differently. As for the topic, it doesn't look good in my view.