Swing Easier?

[HateTheHighDraw]

Everyone tells me I need to swing easier to avoid spraying the ball all over. It's very difficult for me to slow down my swing or swing easier as everyone suggests. Overall I can hit it pretty decently, but my instructor (as well as all of my playing partners) constantly tells me to "not swing so hard."

 

I feel frustrated because I've gone to the range before and told myself, don't swing over 50%. I go ahead trying and swinging easier and I can't make decent contact, just basically top the ball and don't feel like I can swing through the ball at all. As long as I key in on my posture and balance, a "harder" swing gets better results for me.

 

My typical swing fault is my arms getting stuck behind causing a flippy hook. I suppose this is why the "swing easier" concept is what my instructor pushes. I've worked on my pivot and have achieved better impact dynamics, but I still never feel smooth or easy with my swing.

 

Keegan Bradley said in GD to use your athleticism, and Hank Haney said something similar on Project Haney with Joe Namath.

 

I'm a bigger guy, former college football player and I know I can play good golf, I just haven't been able to pull it all together just yet.

 

 

So my questions are (1) do I really need to swing easier? and (2) if so, how do I do it?

[keygolf]

The answer to your "swing speed" question needs more info. Are you part of the 30% of the population who carry high assertive traits, or the 70% that carry low assertive traits? Players typically have trouble if they cross match those combinations, since the higher assertives are usually faster, and the lower are slower. No two will not necessarily be exactly the same, notwithstanding Tour Tempo.. The answer to your second question means knowing how motor learning helps you transform what you want to learn into habit. That may take a awhile in unfolding.

[bmellisen]

You ever try keeping the swing hard aspect with a shorter length swing? The people i play with who swing to hard are really just swing to long. I am a pretty strong guy and hit it long, i find that if i try to swing slow i can decel. Happens more with wedges, so i just swing shorter, but still swing hard. If you are not balanced at your finish though, you are swinging to hard.

[Cwing]

Change your mental approach and fIx your tempo, not slow down.

[MonteScheinblum]

I always tell people.. Anyone who says "keep your head down" or "swing easy"...don't listen to anything they say on any subject.

If the guy is your accountant, you are going to get audited. If he is your lawyer, you are going to jail. If he is your proctologist...

The issue is never swinging too hard. People mistake bad rhythm, bad balance and other things for swinging too hard. I would have to see a video to know what your issue is.

[Gator_Hater]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1328228220' post='4200269']
I always tell people.. Anyone who says "keep your head down" or "swing easy"...don't listen to anything they say on any subject.

If the guy is your accountant, you are going to get audited. If he is your lawyer, you are going to jail. If he is your proctologist...

The issue is never swinging too hard. People mistake bad rhythm, bad balance and other things for swinging too hard. I would have to see a video to know what your issue is.
[/quote]

Why would you ever tell an athlete to not do something as hard as they can? Would you tell Nolan Ryan to not throw his fastball as hard as he could? No you would tell him to sequence his motion so he can throw it as hard as he can and still hit the strike zone. Anyone who tells you to slow down doesn't really know what the body should do in a golf swing.

[HateTheHighDraw]

Thanks guys, yes I believe it is more of a tempo and rhythm thing as well. i can tell because I can 'swing easier' and still have poor timing and a rushed transition. I think that once I get the rhythm and timing, I'll actually be able to swing faster. Just have to figure out a few drills to work on my timing, tempo, and rhythm.

And Monte, I HATE when playing partners give me advice. I've only been playing for a year and guys I play with have been with the game much longer and I still shoot pretty much the same scores, nonetheless they love to tell me "keep your head down" and "don't swing so hard."

[againstthegrain]

[quote name='h0ss66' timestamp='1328211268' post='4198545']
Everyone tells me I need to swing easier to avoid spraying the ball all over. It's very difficult for me to slow down my swing or swing easier as everyone suggests. Overall I can hit it pretty decently, but my instructor (as well as all of my playing partners) constantly tells me to "not swing so hard."

I feel frustrated because I've gone to the range before and told myself, don't swing over 50%. I go ahead trying and swinging easier and I can't make decent contact, just basically top the ball and don't feel like I can swing through the ball at all. As long as I key in on my posture and balance, a "harder" swing gets better results for me.

My typical swing fault is my arms getting stuck behind causing a flippy hook. I suppose this is why the "swing easier" concept is what my instructor pushes. I've worked on my pivot and have achieved better impact dynamics, but I still never feel smooth or easy with my swing.

[b]Keegan Bradley said in GD to use your athleticism, and Hank Haney said something similar [/b]on Project Haney with Joe Namath.

I'm a bigger guy, former college football player and I know I can play good golf, I just haven't been able to pull it all together just yet.


So my questions are (1) do I really need to swing easier? and (2) if so, how do I do it?
[/quote]


Easy to say when you're a world class athlete w no idea how hard the game is for the rest of us. And well HH doesn't have a clue how to teach so that's just him putting off on the payer what he's unable to convey in his teaching.

Sounds like you're very anxious to get the clubhead on the ball. Get a solid preshot routine to put yourself in a comfort zone and the tempo will come to you.

[HateTheHighDraw]

[quote name='againstthegrain' timestamp='1328278459' post='4204211']
[quote name='h0ss66' timestamp='1328211268' post='4198545']
Everyone tells me I need to swing easier to avoid spraying the ball all over. It's very difficult for me to slow down my swing or swing easier as everyone suggests. Overall I can hit it pretty decently, but my instructor (as well as all of my playing partners) constantly tells me to "not swing so hard."

I feel frustrated because I've gone to the range before and told myself, don't swing over 50%. I go ahead trying and swinging easier and I can't make decent contact, just basically top the ball and don't feel like I can swing through the ball at all. As long as I key in on my posture and balance, a "harder" swing gets better results for me.

My typical swing fault is my arms getting stuck behind causing a flippy hook. I suppose this is why the "swing easier" concept is what my instructor pushes. I've worked on my pivot and have achieved better impact dynamics, but I still never feel smooth or easy with my swing.

[b]Keegan Bradley said in GD to use your athleticism, and Hank Haney said something similar [/b]on Project Haney with Joe Namath.

I'm a bigger guy, former college football player and I know I can play good golf, I just haven't been able to pull it all together just yet.


So my questions are (1) do I really need to swing easier? and (2) if so, how do I do it?
[/quote]


Easy to say when you're a world class athlete w no idea how hard the game is for the rest of us. And well HH doesn't have a clue how to teach so that's just him putting off on the payer what he's unable to convey in his teaching.

Sounds like you're[b] very anxious[/b] to get the clubhead on the ball. Get a solid preshot routine to put yourself in a comfort zone and the tempo will come to you.
[/quote]

Yes, I feel that often times I am very anxious, especially on my iron shots. I need a routine that works for me. I recently developed a putting routine and it helped me tremendously so I need to bring that clearly not-novel concept over to the rest of my shots.

I'm admittedly an overthinker (engineer/patent attorney) but I think an established and consistent routine will help eliminate the over thinking. I need to do less focusing on the physics of the swing and more focus on strategy, club selection, and shotmaking. Thanks for the tips again guys! Tough game, but I'm addicted after only a year!

[TheCityGame]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1328228220' post='4200269']
I always tell people.. Anyone who says "keep your head down" or "swing easy"...don't listen to anything they say on any subject.
[/quote]That is funny.

I just played with two guys this week. The one guy was terrible. . .he did like a 100% weight shift back and then forward. He wrapped his arm around his head, bending his elbow and his wrist so that the club was almost pointing straight down. He stood up, then bent back over. It was a MESS. He was tilting and shifting all over the place and hitting 6 inches behind the ball on his GOOD shots, and his partner just kept saying, "you need to swing easier. you're trying to kill it."

Also reminds me of a round I played at Alcoma near Pittsburgh once with a father & son once where every shot the son the missed, the father would start telling him to "keep his head down". He was actually almost threatening him after a while. . ."you better keep your f****** head down." I never saw the kid actually lift his head up once. I guess his dad just had to yell something. It was crazy.

[againstthegrain]

[quote name='h0ss66' timestamp='1328280163' post='4204481']
[quote name='againstthegrain' timestamp='1328278459' post='4204211']
[quote name='h0ss66' timestamp='1328211268' post='4198545']
Everyone tells me I need to swing easier to avoid spraying the ball all over. It's very difficult for me to slow down my swing or swing easier as everyone suggests. Overall I can hit it pretty decently, but my instructor (as well as all of my playing partners) constantly tells me to "not swing so hard."

I feel frustrated because I've gone to the range before and told myself, don't swing over 50%. I go ahead trying and swinging easier and I can't make decent contact, just basically top the ball and don't feel like I can swing through the ball at all. As long as I key in on my posture and balance, a "harder" swing gets better results for me.

My typical swing fault is my arms getting stuck behind causing a flippy hook. I suppose this is why the "swing easier" concept is what my instructor pushes. I've worked on my pivot and have achieved better impact dynamics, but I still never feel smooth or easy with my swing.

[b]Keegan Bradley said in GD to use your athleticism, and Hank Haney said something similar [/b]on Project Haney with Joe Namath.

I'm a bigger guy, former college football player and I know I can play good golf, I just haven't been able to pull it all together just yet.


So my questions are (1) do I really need to swing easier? and (2) if so, how do I do it?
[/quote]


Easy to say when you're a world class athlete w no idea how hard the game is for the rest of us. And well HH doesn't have a clue how to teach so that's just him putting off on the payer what he's unable to convey in his teaching.

Sounds like you're[b] very anxious[/b] to get the clubhead on the ball. Get a solid preshot routine to put yourself in a comfort zone and the tempo will come to you.
[/quote]

Yes, I feel that often times I am very anxious, especially on my iron shots. I need a routine that works for me. I recently developed a putting routine and it helped me tremendously so I need to bring that clearly not-novel concept over to the rest of my shots.

I'm admittedly an overthinker (engineer/patent attorney) but I think an established and consistent routine will help eliminate the over thinking. I need to do less focusing on the physics of the swing and more focus on strategy, club selection, and shotmaking. Thanks for the tips again guys! Tough game, but I'm addicted after only a year!
[/quote]

The Pia Nielson (Anika's coach) book is a good one for learning this phase of the game.

For those of us late to game, like myself, a certain lack of confidence along w a desire to keep up pace of play puts an inordinate amount of pressure on our games. We just need to relax and realize we're worthy of spending an appropriate amount of time playing.

[juststeve]

There is a difference between swinging fast, which is good, and swinging hard which often is bad. My advice would be to swing only as fast as you can while maintaining balance and center face contact. I wouldn't call that swinging easier, but it might feel that way when you do it.

As to the Nolan Ryan analogy, trying to throw too hard often reduced velocity. Coaches call it overthrowing. In golf and fastballs what we want is velocity.

Steve

[jabrch]

"swing easy" is too cliche...as others have said.

You need to swing "right" and right varies from golfer to golfer. It's possible that you are going at it so hard and so fast that your body can't keep up with your hands. That happens sometimes. But that just means you need to tweak your sequencing a bit to get closer to square in time, and to make sure your path is right.

Another thing with unique swings like I assume you have, is the benefit from proper fitting. As a former college football player, I'm going to speculate (and only a proper fitting can answer this) that off the shelf clubs and stock shafts may impact you adversely more than they'd impact me (5'11 - 190lbs and generally of moderate strength/skill) If you are, for example, taller, stronger and more athletic than me (which I'd imagine is the case), you may really benefit from a complete fitting (loft, lie, shaft, grip, etc.) It doesn't necesarily mean you need $300 exotic shafts in all your clubs, but maybe the stock stuff aint right either...

[HitEmTrue]

[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1328228220' post='4200269']
I always tell people.. Anyone who says "keep your head down" or "swing easy"...don't listen to anything they say on any subject.

If the guy is your accountant, you are going to get audited. If he is your lawyer, you are going to jail. If he is your proctologist...

The issue is never swinging too hard. People mistake bad rhythm, bad balance and other things for swinging too hard. I would have to see a video to know what your issue is.
[/quote]

Monte,

My (beginner) teenage son sometimes goes at it fast, with an all arms swing. Horrible pivot, all out of sync. Are you saying that I shouldn't try to slow his arms down and work on getting him in sync before speeding back up? (like 9-3 drills with slower swing). Or are you just pointing out that "swing easy" is not the cure-all band-aid, as some would spout it as blanket advice?

I'm just a guy approaching single digits, but often drive the ball best (and straightest) when I go at it as hard as I can. So I appreciate where you're coming from.

[juststeve]

HitEm:

Davis Love II trained his son Davis Love III to hit driver varying distance. One 150 yards, then 200 yards, then 250, then flat out. It helped him learn to synchronize his arms and body. Davis Love III can flat move the ball.

Steve

[HateTheHighDraw]

[quote name='jabrch' timestamp='1328287557' post='4205469']
"swing easy" is too cliche...as others have said.

You need to swing "right" and right varies from golfer to golfer. It's possible that you are going at it so hard and so fast that your body can't keep up with your hands. That happens sometimes. But that just means you need to tweak your sequencing a bit to get closer to square in time, and to make sure your path is right.

Another thing with unique swings like I assume you have, is the benefit from proper fitting. As a former college football player, I'm going to speculate (and only a proper fitting can answer this) that off the shelf clubs and stock shafts may impact you adversely more than they'd impact me (5'11 - 190lbs and generally of moderate strength/skill) If you are, for example, taller, stronger and more athletic than me (which I'd imagine is the case), you may really benefit from a complete fitting (loft, lie, shaft, grip, etc.) It doesn't necesarily mean you need $300 exotic shafts in all your clubs, but maybe the stock stuff aint right either...
[/quote]

Thanks for the comments. While I can't say that my swing is particularly unique, I believe my body type and strength do affect a lot of things. I've got broad shoulders and a thick chest w/ big biceps and arms. Therefore, I constantly have trouble with my arms crashing into my body so I suppose that's why my instructor thinks that swinging easier would help me. But the reality is, I need to find a swinging pattern that doesn't cause the arms to crash but also allows me to swing as fast I can. The arms crashing is 99% of the reason why I lose balance in my swing. My arms push into my chest and therefore cause my body to sway off the ball and then I can't get back. My instructor thus far hasn't been helpful in working with my particular body type.

As to your point about fitting, you are absolutely correct. I've got my irons dialed in (not so much a length issue, more on the flex and weight), but my woods aren't quite dialed in. Everyone tries to turn me away from heavier and short wood shafts being as I'm a beginner, so I always end up getting no where at my attempted fittings. I do believe that heavier wood shafts would help my tempo.

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='HitEmTrue' timestamp='1328287827' post='4205521']
[quote name='MonteScheinblum' timestamp='1328228220' post='4200269']
I always tell people.. Anyone who says "keep your head down" or "swing easy"...don't listen to anything they say on any subject.

If the guy is your accountant, you are going to get audited. If he is your lawyer, you are going to jail. If he is your proctologist...

The issue is never swinging too hard. People mistake bad rhythm, bad balance and other things for swinging too hard. I would have to see a video to know what your issue is.
[/quote]

Monte,

My (beginner) teenage son sometimes goes at it fast, with an all arms swing. Horrible pivot, all out of sync. Are you saying that I shouldn't try to slow his arms down and work on getting him in sync before speeding back up? (like 9-3 drills with slower swing). Or are you just pointing out that "swing easy" is not the cure-all band-aid, as some would spout it as blanket advice?

I'm just a guy approaching single digits, but often drive the ball best (and straightest) when I go at it as hard as I can. So I appreciate where you're coming from.
[/quote]

I might be arguing semantics here, but I distinguish between swinging too hard and snatching the club with the arms.

Telling someone to swing easy just makes then snatch the club at the ball with less speed, making it easier to manipulate the club even more.

It's a bandaid that doesn't help the problem and teaches people to wave at it with their arms and slow the turn down.

It's like treating an injury with painkillers. It masks the problem and likely allows it to get worse.

You teach your son how to be patient, let the weight shift (lower body goes left for a righty) and then smash it.

You don't tell him to swing easy, you tell him to wait a bit longer and then smash it.

[HateTheHighDraw]

If anyone is interested, here's my swing from a few months ago with a 7 iron. A little stuck with a flip at impact. Swinging about 90% (in my brain) here. Comments much appreciated.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTZTZVkrEHM[/media]

[station2station]

[quote name='h0ss66' timestamp='1328211268' post='4198545']
Everyone tells me I need to swing easier to avoid spraying the ball all over. ...

I feel frustrated because I've gone to the range before and told myself, don't swing over 50%. I go ahead trying and swinging easier and I can't make decent contact,

[/quote]
Evidently you aren't making decent contact as it stands, so how is slowing down a worse thing?

But in my opinion when guys say "don't swing so hard" they aren't accurately assessing the issue. You are swinging out of sequence.

Swing as fast (not hard) as you can properly time. When you swing outside of yourself the club face is ahead/behind/open/closed. You gotta be at the point of impact with all your parts in the proper place.

You may hit a few good shots from time to time using your all-out method but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

My best piece of advice to sync up your parts is to swing as [i]fast[/i] as you want remembering two things. The club [i]must[/i] settle at the top (a feeling) - not a violent change of direction. And you must swing thru and past the ball ignoring your propensity to "HIT at" the ball. Ignore where the ball is in your path and get thru it. A desire to HIT typically seizes one body part, often the hands or hips, because the body is trying to throw the clubhead at the ball (which is not the target).

hope this makes some sense. Hope it's applicable.

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='h0ss66' timestamp='1328291283' post='4205999']
If anyone is interested, here's my swing from a few months ago with a 7 iron. A little stuck with a flip at impact. Swinging about 90% (in my brain) here. Comments much appreciated.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTZTZVkrEHM[/media]
[/quote]

ROFLMAO...those guys who tell you you swing too hard need to be subjected to water boarding.

I would like to see a DTL, but from this angle it looks like you restrict your hip turn to start the takeaway and that would lead to things not lining up and being in sync.

Free those hips up.

[station2station]

[quote name='h0ss66' timestamp='1328291283' post='4205999']
If anyone is interested, here's my swing from a few months ago with a 7 iron. A little stuck with a flip at impact. Swinging about 90% (in my brain) here. Comments much appreciated.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTZTZVkrEHM[/media]
[/quote]

Looks to be proper speed/effort expenditure for a 7 iron. Hard to read anything from the H.O angle but you don't look stuck. You simply look like, from the top, your brain is thinking about starting the club down as the first move.

i.e. you look "hitty"


Rather you should leave that club up there at the top and move into your left side with your knees/hips/body and allow the club to fall and "swing" throughout the shot. Bump turn into your left heel and wait on the club - no rush. You'll sense an uncomfortable club delay if you're doing it right.

oldest adage in the book - but it's a golf swing, not a golf hit. Go youtube Fred Couples and watch his initial move from the top - (ignore his other mechanics). Note how Fred leaves it up there while he moves into his left, then it falls and swings through the ball. Seems like incidental contact as if the ball got in the way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJVnERkFS2I

[HateTheHighDraw]

Thanks Monte and station for the comments. Unfortunately don't have a down the line view of this swing (or any others really). I do feel like for the most part that I can't create separation between my lower body and my upper body/arms to initiate the downswing. I feel as if I AM initating with my hips, but that my shoulders and arms just move with and not "after" my hips start. In other words, I'm just swaying everything into the ball.

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='h0ss66' timestamp='1328293630' post='4206293']
Thanks Monte and station for the comments. Unfortunately don't have a down the line view of this swing (or any others really). I do feel like for the most part that I can't create separation between my lower body and my upper body/arms to initiate the downswing. I feel as if I AM initating with my hips, but that my shoulders and arms just move with and not "after" my hips start. In other words, I'm just swaying everything into the ball.
[/quote]

The sequence is just off and if you let them turn free off the ball, things will line up better.

[station2station]

[quote name='h0ss66' timestamp='1328293630' post='4206293']
Thanks Monte and station for the comments. Unfortunately don't have a down the line view of this swing (or any others really). I do feel like for the most part that I can't create separation between my lower body and my upper body/arms to initiate the downswing. I feel as if I AM initating with my hips, but that my shoulders and arms just move with and not "after" my hips start. In other words, I'm just swaying everything into the ball.
[/quote]

Yeah, feel vs real. All I can say is that for me, it's an extreme sensation of delay and leaving the club up there at the top for a long time while I move into the left side. It doesn't really sit up there, it drops 14 inches or so naturally while my body gets left. (turn into my left). Emphasis on [i]drop because it's happening passively.[/i] You can see this with freddy here. He isn't pulling that handle in a hitting effort. It's falling until the hip level then he "slings" it.

I use Fred not because of his mechanics but rather he is an extreme example of a point I'm trying to emphasize with the delayed hit.

Also - as with any change in the golf swing we don't truly make progress inside our comfort zone. You have to feel such extreme "different-ness" for lack of a better word. When you finally make change you will feel like a freak out there - and it will be sooo uncomfortable. Soo different.

Good luck to you - that's all I got.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wHT7jpuQCM

[mikpga]

Swing with the speed that best fits you...

Swing hard, yet keep the club more "in front of you"...

Always tell students that they are more than welcome to swing as hard as they want as long as they swing in balance...

[sjg5359]

I get the same from my playing partners as well and I even tried to slow it down with bad results. I've come to the realization that a faster swing tempo is just my swing characteristic and I am working within it rather than fighting it.

Matched my equipment to my swing and working on on hand postion and mechanics with much better results.