New England Golf Monthly's "Top 25"

[dartboss04]

Really?

In their latest issue New England Golf Monthly ranks the top 25 public courses (listed below). I'm not sure what the criteria was, but the rankings seem a little off to me. Granted I've only played 5 of the courses so far (Meadowbrook, Wintonbury, Bass River, Dennis Pines, Lake of Isles), but have plans to play at 4-5 more this year (Newport National, CT National, The Ranch, Red Tail, Cranberry Valley). My problem with this list is Lake of Isles at #23. Besides price, it blows the other 4 courses I've played away. If they rank LOI at 23, it makes me question the validity of the whole list. BTW, Where's Crumpin Fox or Fox Hopyard?!?!

Anyone else play a bunch of these and have any thoughts, missing courses, etc? Obviously these lists are super subjective and probably just fronts for advertising, but it's fun to discuss anyway.

1. Newport National (RI)
2. CT National (CT)
3. The Ranch (MA)
4. Green Mountain National (VT)
5. Meadowbrook (RI)
6. Red Tail (MA)
7. Belgrade Lakes (ME)
8. Granite Links (MA)
9. Shining Rock (MA)
10. Portsmouth (NH)
11. Stowe Acres (MA)
12. The Ledges (ME)
13. Wintonbury Hills (CT)
14. Waverly Oaks (MA)
15. Farm Neck (MA)
16. Old Marsh (ME)
17. Bass River (MA)
18. Green Meadow (NH)
19. Triggs (RI)
20. Pinehills (MA)
21. Cranberry Valley (MA)
22. Dennis Pines (MA)
23. Lake of Isles North (CT)
24. Olde Scotland Links (MA)
25. Wentworth Hills (MA)

[MadGolfer76]

Belgrade is spot on. I live in Maine and I haven't heard of Old Marsh. Samoset Resort might be missing.


edit: Old Marsh is in Kennebunkport, which explains why I haven't heard of it - I'm too poor!

[raynorfan1]

[quote name='dartboss04' timestamp='1337019966' post='4912756']
I'm not sure what the criteria was, but the rankings seem a little off to me.[/quote]

Given the list they put out, I have to assume the criteria was: "How much advertising $$$ has the course spent with NEGM in the past 12 months..."

It's easy to quibble with where one course ranks vs. others, but the omissions and inclusions are just weird.

Crumpin Fox (and Fox Hopyard)?
Taconic?

And then they include some really marginal places like Green Meadow? Bass River? Dennis Pines? Really?

[Imp]

Played LOI-N today. Fairways were plugged, a couple of the black tees (played the golds) were canabalized for turf to be used elsewhere, and the bunkers are filled with good sized rocks 1/2" - 1". Also, the narrow fairways don't help those that are not good enough to hit straight.

IMHO? If it weren't for the credits being used to play there, I wouldn't pay $150 for it. Meadowbrook, CT National, and Newport National are better courses for the lower prices.

--kC

[dartboss04]

I agree on the bunker issue. That's always been a problem for me, but I wouldn't factor in punched fairways in spring.

Meadowbrook is nice but it's not as memorable as LOI. I just feel like LOI is an experience.

[quote name='Imp' timestamp='1337037730' post='4914740']
Played LOI-N today. Fairways were plugged, a couple of the black tees (played the golds) were canabalized for turf to be used elsewhere, and the bunkers are filled with good sized rocks 1/2" - 1". Also, the narrow fairways don't help those that are not good enough to hit straight.

IMHO? If it weren't for the credits being used to play there, I wouldn't pay $150 for it. Meadowbrook, CT National, and Newport National are better courses for the lower prices.

--kC
[/quote]

[JJK947]

They must have really done something with CT National for it to be that high on the list. I played it once a year for high school matches back just before the renovation and the layout of the front nine wasn't really anything special. I have played the 3 from CT and I would rank them the exact opposite of the order they have them on the list.

The obvious omissions for me are crumpin fox and fox hopyard, both are really tough, in great shape and have great layouts. Being from CT, I don't recognize a lot of the courses from ME, NH, and VT but it seems like a lot of the ones from Mass are out of place or shouldn't be even on the list.

Really making a point of playing Meadowbrook this year though. There are a lot of nice courses right in that area of RI, Fenner Hill and Richmond are within 5 miles of Meadowbrook.

It is sad to hear about the condition at LOI. I haven't played there since graduating high school when I was playing it weekly and I never encountered any of the conditions that I have been hearing about recently.

[dartboss04]

I don't think LOI is as bad as it's made out but at that price point you expect the best. They need to punch so I will not take anything away for that but they should address the bunkers. The scenery and condition 9 times out of 10 are top notch at least in my experience.

Completely agree with JJK's CT reversal.

[Sean2]

I'd rank Pinehills above Granite Links and Waverly Oaks. Also, Olde Scotland Links and not Crosswinds?

[Fore_Man]

Green Meadow? Really? The fact that it makes the top 20 makes the whole list bunk IMHO. Was this a reader choice list? Was it based on sales? What's the criteria here?

[Imp]

Agreed that they do need to do aeration, and at least it wasn't on the greens...

I do plan on playing there again as the scenery and the elevation changes from the golds (combined with a southerly wind) adds a completely new dimension that isn't regularly found in the 'flatlands' of SE New England.

Now that I've slept on it, the greens rolled true and they are slick. Being an overcast day it was really hard to see the slightest break.

--kC
(I would still put them low on the list due to the rocky bunkers, 175 yd+ cart standoff range from the greens, and cannabalized tee boxes, they have more $$ than Trump, so anything less than almost perfect is a tick against them.)

[raynorfan1]

[quote name='Imp' timestamp='1337080377' post='4917046']
(they have more $ than Trump, so anything less than almost perfect is a tick against them.)
[/quote]

They're actually teetering on the edge of insolvency (and they can't declare bankruptcy to clean up their balance sheet), which might explain some of the maintenance issues.

[drwalmer]

A bunch of great courses on the list but definitely subjective. The fact that neither Sunday River nor Sugarloaf up in Maine are on this list, despite the fact that both should arguably be in the top 5 is a complete joke. Fun to debate though.

[twtolley]

I played Newport Nat'l a few weeks ago, and although its not my cup of tea, I can understand why it would take the top spot. That being said, this list has some blatant exclusions and poorly placed inclusions. Pinehills should be nowhere near 20th, and certainly not as far off from Granite Links as it is. IMHO, PH Jones course can't be beat.. playing Red Tail this weekend for the first time, pretty pumped about it.

[DLiver]

[quote name='Fore_Man' timestamp='1337047781' post='4915764']
Green Meadow? Really? The fact that it makes the top 20 makes the whole list bunk IMHO. Was this a reader choice list? Was it based on sales? What's the criteria here?
[/quote]

Yeah Green Meadow is a goat track. It's inclusion diminishes the entire list.

[jbrunone]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1337045983' post='4915582']
I'd rank Pinehills above Granite Links and Waverly Oaks. Also, Olde Scotland Links and not Crosswinds?
[/quote]

agree sean, Im sorry but see no reason newport that high and farm neck and pinehills that low for public course.... but what do I know

[Sean2]

[quote name='jbrunone' timestamp='1337121688' post='4920974']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1337045983' post='4915582']
I'd rank Pinehills above Granite Links and Waverly Oaks. Also, Olde Scotland Links and not Crosswinds?
[/quote]

agree sean, Im sorry but see no reason newport that high and farm neck and pinehills that low for public course.... but what do I know
[/quote]
More than the guys who put the list together J!

[dhamz]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1337045983' post='4915582']
I'd rank Pinehills above Granite Links and Waverly Oaks. Also, Olde Scotland Links and not Crosswinds?
[/quote]

I can't speak to The Ranch as it is the 1 Mass course on the list I haven't played but I'd put Pinehills behind Red Tail and ahead of every other Mass course on the list.

I find Granite Links (which i live about 5 minutes from) to be overrated. The views are great and the course is kept in great condition but the actual golf course layout isn't anything special in my opinion.

Stow Acres and Waverly are too high based on past reputation. Neither is the course they once were. Waverly in particular can't seem to decide what it is since it was going to close for Hollywood Plymouth. If it still wants to compete with Pinehills and charge $100 a round they need to return it to the top condition it was in back then. If they aren't going to have those conditions they need to drop the price. The layout is still very good.

Agree 100% on Crosswinds. Very nice course that I think suffers significantly in these discussions because of the lack of a clubhouse. I know a lot of folks who simply don't want to play there because there is nowhere to grab beers after.

[connecticutgolfer]

I guess I am far behind the times because like other members have mentioned, CT national was a freakin dump at one point not very long ago. Can someone tell me if it really is as nice as the rankings say it is.

[DCSerafin]

[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1337020771' post='4912868']
Belgrade is spot on. I live in Maine and I haven't heard of Old Marsh. Samoset Resort might be missing.


edit: Old Marsh is in Kennebunkport, which explains why I haven't heard of it - I'm too poor!
[/quote]
Old Marsh is in Wells and is actually pretty reasonably priced. You can actually get a full membership there for under $1600 and I think greens fees are $70 with cart but it is very walk able. It's got an interesting layout with some very tough par fours and threes.

Now, I think the Ledges in York is one of the better couses in NE with some of the best and certainly fastest greens public or private that I have played.
Some courses I thnk that were missed include Blackstone National and Blisful Meadows. For the money! The conditions are excellent at blissful and the staff is great. You'll use every club in the bag. Blackstone had a tough go with the drought but has come back nicely and lowered there fees. Courses to drop for these, Bass River, Dennis Pines. Over-rated and Ross and prices that take advantage of the vacationer..., i would also put Worcester's Green Hill against Triggs any day, again, some of the better greens around, and this is a muni we're talking about.

I like shining rock, but a course that is just not walk able and that can't be played in under 5 hours just doesn't make my list. I will play it a couple times a year, it is fun, but those are two severe negatives. People talk about Cyprian being target golf, well shining rock is worse, I would put the keyes on the list before shining rock. You can walk it and finish in 4 to 4:30

I know some will disagree, but that's what makes these lists fun. Hearing different arguments from people with different reasons and different games that help form the opinions.

[Imp]

I played CT National about 3 weeks ago. They've added a few new bunkers to 18 to make it a bit more challenging, they moved the tee boxes on 8 to take the tees from 3 out of play now. Also moved a couple more tee boxes and removed the tips off the rock on 4 (I think until they build legitimate stairs). The fairways were in good condition, the trees trimmed back a bit more (there wasn't any foliage on them, just buds).

YMMV of course. I liked it.

--kC

[raynorfan1]

[quote name='DCSerafin' timestamp='1337225117' post='4929214']
I know some will disagree, but that's what makes these lists fun. Hearing different arguments from people with different reasons and different games that help form the opinions.
[/quote]

It's what makes the lists fun if they're credible. But I can't argue with somebody who ranks Green Meadow ahead of Pinehills, because I have no idea what criteria they could possibly be using to judge.

[Judge Smails]

Newport Nat is my favorite and the best course I have played in NE. I am happy to see they got that right.

It always makes me laugh when Granite Links is highly rated. I love going there to practice, despite that they waste the grass range and never let anyone use it., but the layout itself is and always will be an overpriced joke. I can't imagine how great it would be if a legit architect were commission to build 18 holes instead of 27 on that same plot of land. It would have been amazing.

[festivus_01]

[quote name='dartboss04' timestamp='1337019966' post='4912756']
In their latest issue New England Golf Monthly ranks the top 25 public courses (listed below). I'm not sure what the criteria was, but the rankings seem a little off to me. Granted I've only played 5 of the courses so far (Meadowbrook, Wintonbury, Bass River, Dennis Pines, Lake of Isles), but have plans to play at 4-5 more this year (Newport National, CT National, The Ranch, Red Tail, Cranberry Valley). My problem with this list is Lake of Isles at #23. Besides price, it blows the other 4 courses I've played away. If they rank LOI at 23, it makes me question the validity of the whole list. BTW, Where's Crumpin Fox or Fox Hopyard?!?!

Anyone else play a bunch of these and have any thoughts, missing courses, etc? Obviously these lists are super subjective and probably just fronts for advertising, but it's fun to discuss anyway.

[list=1][*]Newport National (RI)[*]CT National (CT)[*]The Ranch (MA)[*]Green Mountain National (VT)[*]Meadowbrook (RI)[*]Red Tail (MA)[*]Belgrade Lakes (ME)[*]Granite Links (MA)[*]Shining Rock (MA)[*]Portsmouth (NH)[*]Stowe Acres (MA)[*]The Ledges (ME)[*]Wintonbury Hills (CT)[*]Waverly Oaks (MA)[*]Farm Neck (MA)[*]Old Marsh (ME)[*]Bass River (MA)[*]Green Meadow (NH)[*]Triggs (RI)[*]Pinehills (MA)[*]Cranberry Valley (MA)[*]Dennis Pines (MA)[*]Lake of Isles North (CT)[*]Olde Scotland Links (MA)[*]Wentworth Hills (MA)[/list]
[/quote]

this is a terrible list IMO. Played most if not all and would not put the Ranch or Green Mountain in the top 20 let alone top 5. Triggs is often a disaster (poor drainage). I'd put Pinehills, Lake of Isles, Taconic, Portsmouth, Yale, Cranberry Valley, Crumpin-Fox, The Ledges, and Red Tail in the tops. Taconic and Yale are easily the best IMO.

[raynorfan1]

[quote name='festivus_01' timestamp='1337962252' post='4976794']this is a terrible list IMO. Played most if not all and would not put the Ranch or Green Mountain in the top 20 let alone top 5. Triggs is often a disaster (poor drainage). I'd put Pinehills, Lake of Isles, Taconic, Portsmouth, Yale, Cranberry Valley, Crumpin-Fox, The Ledges, and Red Tail in the tops. Taconic and Yale are easily the best IMO.
[/quote]

Is Yale now open to the public?

I'm interested to hear comments on the Ranch - I've been eager to get out there, but was assuming it was in the Crumpin-Fox league.

[kc10]

Yale is semi-private (mostly private) public can play for $130...about half that, less for some with affliation to Yale

[tinman17]

Waverly Oaks doesn't crack the top three in Plymouth alone. Pinehills, Crosswinds, and Atlantic all better tracks, no question.
Waverly a glorified resort layout, way overrated....

[MadGolfer76]

Belgrade is spot on. I live in Maine and I haven't heard of Old Marsh. Samoset Resort might be missing.

 

 

edit: Old Marsh is in Kennebunkport, which explains why I haven't heard of it - I'm too poor!

Old Marsh is in Wells and is actually pretty reasonably priced. You can actually get a full membership there for under $1600 and I think greens fees are $70 with cart but it is very walk able. It's got an interesting layout with some very tough par fours and threes.

 

Now, I think the Ledges in York is one of the better couses in NE with some of the best and certainly fastest greens public or private that I have played.

Some courses I thnk that were missed include Blackstone National and Blisful Meadows. For the money! The conditions are excellent at blissful and the staff is great. You'll use every club in the bag. Blackstone had a tough go with the drought but has come back nicely and lowered there fees. Courses to drop for these, Bass River, Dennis Pines. Over-rated and Ross and prices that take advantage of the vacationer..., i would also put Worcester's Green Hill against Triggs any day, again, some of the better greens around, and this is a muni we're talking about.

 

I like shining rock, but a course that is just not walk able and that can't be played in under 5 hours just doesn't make my list. I will play it a couple times a year, it is fun, but those are two severe negatives. People talk about Cyprian being target golf, well shining rock is worse, I would put the keyes on the list before shining rock. You can walk it and finish in 4 to 4:30

 

I know some will disagree, but that's what makes these lists fun. Hearing different arguments from people with different reasons and different games that help form the opinions.

 

I don't know where I got the Old Marsh info from. Good to know!

 

I played the Ledges last week and the greens were nice and fast! Love fast greens and the course was very nice, if a little soggy in places. Lots of rain the the prior weeks. Would love to come back and play the course when everything was dry. Not really a course where huge drives gets you much of an advantage. Definitely more of a strategist's course. Need to make sure your putting is in order, for sure.

[DCSerafin]

What tees did you play from. If the blues, next time you do make it up there, it's fun on No.'s 8 and 18 a whirl from the blacks. Just totally ridiculous, lol.

[MadGolfer76]

[quote name='DCSerafin' timestamp='1339636106' post='5088190']
What tees did you play from. If the blues, next time you do make it up there, it's fun on No.'s 8 and 18 a whirl from the blacks. Just totally ridiculous, lol.
[/quote]

Ha! Yeah, I remember those. The course isn't really that long, but I figure first time = conservative. Tee shots weren't very good that week anyway.

[celticlt]

[quote name='dartboss04' timestamp='1337019966' post='4912756']
In their latest issue New England Golf Monthly ranks the top 25 public courses (listed below). I'm not sure what the criteria was, but the rankings seem a little off to me. Granted I've only played 5 of the courses so far (Meadowbrook, Wintonbury, Bass River, Dennis Pines, Lake of Isles), but have plans to play at 4-5 more this year (Newport National, CT National, The Ranch, Red Tail, Cranberry Valley). My problem with this list is Lake of Isles at #23. Besides price, it blows the other 4 courses I've played away. If they rank LOI at 23, it makes me question the validity of the whole list. BTW, Where's Crumpin Fox or Fox Hopyard?!?!

Anyone else play a bunch of these and have any thoughts, missing courses, etc? Obviously these lists are super subjective and probably just fronts for advertising, but it's fun to discuss anyway.

[list=1]
[*]Newport National (RI)
[*]CT National (CT)
[*]The Ranch (MA)
[*]Green Mountain National (VT)
[*]Meadowbrook (RI)
[*]Red Tail (MA)
[*]Belgrade Lakes (ME)
[*]Granite Links (MA)
[*]Shining Rock (MA)
[*]Portsmouth (NH)
[*]Stowe Acres (MA)
[*]The Ledges (ME)
[*]Wintonbury Hills (CT)
[*]Waverly Oaks (MA)
[*]Farm Neck (MA)
[*]Old Marsh (ME)
[*]Bass River (MA)
[*]Green Meadow (NH)
[*]Triggs (RI)
[*]Pinehills (MA)
[*]Cranberry Valley (MA)
[*]Dennis Pines (MA)
[*]Lake of Isles North (CT)
[*]Olde Scotland Links (MA)
[*]Wentworth Hills (MA)
[/list]
[/quote] Triggs realy? Junk yard should be used as a bomber range.