Fedex cup is stupid

[Jim Clark]

I have not read the whole thread, threads here get too long. But I'll add my $2.

The system is definitely flawed. I think the main problem is the points for the playoff tournaments are way too high (as I believe others mentioned). If Vijay wins today, he moves from 49th place to 5th place and is in a MUCH better position for the points reset in the Tour Championship and a MUCH better shot at the Cup. That is funamentally flawed and ludicrous. A guy with a pretty midiocre year and no wins should not have a good shot at the Cup. With his year, he shouldn't even be in the Tour Championship.

They must lower the points for the 1st three playoff events so the guys who had a good year make it to Tour Championship. I like the option of significantly lowering the playoff points for the 1st three events, and then have the top 32 play match play for the Cup. You have to have had a good year, including the playoffs, to get to match play, then it's mano-a-mano.

[dawnpatrol]

Yeah that's a good point. The trade off is a FedEx cup with no challenger in sight over the last few tournaments which would be boring.
Tough to argue with today's leader board and the recent leader boards. Man this is fun golf to watch

[imakaveli]

This year it looks less stupid because the best player right now will probably win the Cup imho

[kafka01]

So now they are gonna reset the points? How low could Rory finish and still take the cup? After all, with just the normal progression in points he wouldnt even need to start anymore and would win it...

[Golfnutgalen]

[quote name='kafka01' timestamp='1347229195' post='5613281']
So now they are gonna reset the points? How low could Rory finish and still take the cup? After all, with just the normal progression in points he wouldnt even need to start anymore and would win it...
[/quote]

There are too many scenarios (Rory could finish middle of the pack and still win), but Rory will likely just have to finish ~6th or better to win as long as nobody else in the top 5 finished higher. Funny, yes, but do you remember the first year? In 2007 Tiger skipped the first event, finished 1st and 2nd in the next two and had it all clinched. Then he won the final event anyway, but he could have finished last and would still have won the 10 mill.

I do agree with you though, it's just too volatile now, but the changes have made the Tour Championship much more important.

[KYMAR]

The problem i have i guess is the only thing that matters is getting into the top 5. Tiger commented before last week that you can go out and win 2 events and lose the cup. I get why they do it, and honestly i have no solution for it, but if Rory Goes "Win, win, 2nd" and loses the cup to anyone else in the top 5 then they can continue to have the FEDEX cup and the TC just stop calling these events leading up to it the "Playoffs"

All that said, the FC has clearly been successful in giving the fans exciting golf and solid finishes. With leader boards that look like a list of future hall of famers for the most part. Good Stuff, Hope we see a deserving champion at the end of it.

[tbowles411]

[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1347230350' post='5613377']
The problem i have i guess is the only thing that matters is getting into the top 5. Tiger commented before last week that you can go out and win 2 events and lose the cup. I get why they do it, and honestly i have no solution for it, but if Rory Goes "Win, win, 2nd" and loses the cup to anyone else in the top 5 then they can continue to have the FEDEX cup and the TC just stop calling these events leading up to it the "Playoffs"

All that said, the FC has clearly been successful in giving the fans exciting golf and solid finishes. With leader boards that look like a list of future hall of famers for the most part. Good Stuff, Hope we see a deserving champion at the end of it.
[/quote]
It has been exciting (for the first time in a few years), but I tell you, after Rory went out and dominated, it would be a total buzzkill if he lost it now.

[KYMAR]

I should mention, just after the TC, I will welcome a collapse in Rory's game for like 2 weeks.

[PGArox]

[quote name='tbowles411' timestamp='1347230503' post='5613389']
[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1347230350' post='5613377']
The problem i have i guess is the only thing that matters is getting into the top 5. Tiger commented before last week that you can go out and win 2 events and lose the cup. I get why they do it, and honestly i have no solution for it, but if Rory Goes "Win, win, 2nd" and loses the cup to anyone else in the top 5 then they can continue to have the FEDEX cup and the TC just stop calling these events leading up to it the "Playoffs"

All that said, the FC has clearly been successful in giving the fans exciting golf and solid finishes. With leader boards that look like a list of future hall of famers for the most part. Good Stuff, Hope we see a deserving champion at the end of it.
[/quote]
It has been exciting (for the first time in a few years), but I tell you, after Rory went out and dominated, it would be a total buzzkill if he lost it now.
[/quote]

Well, look at the Green Bay Packers. They went 15-1 last year, but were not the champs. The Patriots went 16-0 one year, but didn't win the Super Bowl.

The TOUR Championship is kind of like the Super Bowl of golf. You have to have a good year first, in order to make the play-offs, but you then must continue to play great golf in order to have a chance at winning the FedEx Cup, which now can only be decided at the TOUR Championship, the Super Bowl of golf.

Now admittedly, last year's Bill Haas scenario kind of killed the TOUR's idea, but it really was an unusual confluence of events, which are not likely to happen often.

I generally do not consider all the dynamics of the FedEx Cup play-offs; I'm just glad that they give us four consecutive top-notch tournaments. But it seems to me that allowing 125 players to qualify for them is a bit too much.

If a golfer finishes the "regular season" 125th in the FedEx Cup points standings, he really has not had a good year. It's tantamount to an NFL team going 3-13, but still making the play-offs.

[tbowles411]

[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1347230905' post='5613433']
I should mention, just after the TC, I will welcome a collapse in Rory's game for like 2 weeks.
[/quote]

[Brock Savage]

[quote name='PGArox' timestamp='1347231992' post='5613529']
If a golfer finishes the "regular season" 125th in the FedEx Cup points standings, he really has not had a good year. It's tantamount to an NFL team going 3-13, but still making the play-offs.
[/quote]

If memory serves, they used to let the top 144 into the playoffs, and cut it down to 125 after people made the same argument you are making.

[monkeynaut]

In the past I've found fed ex cup lame but this year has produced some compelling golf.

Being a little unfamiliar is the anyway that Rory having won TWO events can lose the 10 mil?

[canonlbp430]

[quote name='monkeynaut' timestamp='1347233494' post='5613615']
In the past I've found fed ex cup lame but this year has produced some compelling golf.

Being a little unfamiliar is the anyway that Rory having won TWO events can lose the 10 mil?
[/quote]

Anyone in top 5 wins the $10m by winning the tour championship. Seems bogus that Rory has a chance of losing the cup but that's how they have formatted it.

[JaxBeachNole]

[quote name='canonlbp430' timestamp='1347237683' post='5614021']
[quote name='monkeynaut' timestamp='1347233494' post='5613615']
In the past I've found fed ex cup lame but this year has produced some compelling golf.

Being a little unfamiliar is the anyway that Rory having won TWO events can lose the 10 mil?
[/quote]

Anyone in top 5 wins the $10m by winning the tour championship. Seems bogus that Rory has a chance of losing the cup but that's how they have formatted it.
[/quote]

if that's accurate then he only has to beat four guys to win $10 million.

[Vindog]

[quote name='canonlbp430' timestamp='1347237683' post='5614021']Anyone in top 5 wins the $10m by winning the tour championship. Seems bogus that Rory has a chance of losing the cup but that's how they have formatted it.
[/quote]

I like the idea of a reset, there were good reasons to implement it. However I think it should come between the second and third weeks.

[quote name='JaxBeachNole' timestamp='1347241669' post='5614411']if that's accurate then he only has to beat four guys to win $10 million.
[/quote]

That is accurate. If anyone in the top 5 [i]win the last event[/i], then they are the FedExCup winner. However the latter part of your statement isn't exactly true. Just ask Billy Hass and Webb Simpson.

None of the players left in the FedEx Cup race (the Top 30) are mathematically eliminated from winning the Cup. It's a long shot, and it takes eveyone in the top 5 to tank it (like last year) but it's possible.

[KYMAR]

No it doesn't mean that. If anyone in the top 5 right now wins the TC, they are fedex champs. But anyone 1-30 [i]can [/i]win it. It will just take a bunch of help from the top guys not finishing very high. Now the odds against scott piercy winning and the likes of sneds, tiger, Rory, Phil and watney finishing low enough for Piercy to win aren't very good at all. But it can happen.

[KYMAR]

[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1347242212' post='5614447']


That is accurate. If anyone in the top 5 [i]win the last event[/i], then they are the FedExCup winner. However the latter part of your statement isn't exactly true. Just ask Billy Hass and Webb Simpson.

None of the players left in the FedEx Cup race (the Top 30) are mathematically eliminated from winning the Cup. It's a long shot, and it takes eveyone in the top 5 to tank it (like last year) but it's possible.
[/quote]

Thunder stealer

[TJCDAS]

[size=5][color=#FF0000][b]McIlroy wins 2 out of 3 tournament and only has a 250 point lead on second place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/b][/color][/size]

[size=5][color=#FF0000][b]The FexEx cup is beyond stupid!!!!!!!!!![/b][/color][/size]

[DriveIt"N"3Putt]

[quote name='TJCDAS' timestamp='1347243410' post='5614569']
[size=5][color=#FF0000][b]McIlroy wins 2 out of 3 tournament and only has a 250 point lead on second place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/b][/color][/size]

[size=5][color=#FF0000][b]The FexEx cup is beyond stupid!!!!!!!!!![/b][/color][/size]
[/quote]It was similar to Camillo winning his two playoff events and not getting the cup.

[PGArox]

[quote name='TJCDAS' timestamp='1347243410' post='5614569']
[size=5][color=#FF0000][b]McIlroy wins 2 out of 3 tournament and only has a 250 point lead on second place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/b][/color][/size]

[size=5][color=#FF0000][b]The FexEx cup is beyond stupid!!!!!!!!!![/b][/color][/size]
[/quote]

I had to laugh at this. And I can fully understand why some people think this way.

Please allow me to play devil's advocate. The New England Patriots finished the 2007 regular season with a 16-0 record, then breezed through the play-offs, and went into Super Bowl XLII as a 12-point favorite against the New York Giants, who made it as a wild card.

Clearly the Patriots had demonstrated that they were easily the best team in the league. There really was no reason to hold the Super Bowl, right?

But the Giants won that Super Bowl and became champions of the NFL. Does that make the Super Bowl lame?

[KYMAR]

[quote name='PGArox' timestamp='1347245920' post='5614729']
[quote name='TJCDAS' timestamp='1347243410' post='5614569']
[size=5][color=#FF0000][b]McIlroy wins 2 out of 3 tournament and only has a 250 point lead on second place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/b][/color][/size]

[size=5][color=#FF0000][b]The FexEx cup is beyond stupid!!!!!!!!!![/b][/color][/size]
[/quote]

I had to laugh at this. And I can fully understand why some people think this way.

Please allow me to play devil's advocate. The New England Patriots finished the 2007 regular season with a 16-0 record, then breezed through the play-offs, and went into Super Bowl XLII as a 12-point favorite against the New York Giants, who made it as a wild card.

Clearly the Patriots had demonstrated that they were easily the best team in the league. There really was no reason to hold the Super Bowl, right?

But the Giants won that Super Bowl and became champions of the NFL. Does that make the Super Bowl lame?
[/quote]

The problem with the comparison is that the Pats lost to [i]the only[/i] opponent they could have lost to. Rory has 4 immediate opponents who can beat him. And of those opponents Watney is the only one who could, by winning, [i]equal[/i] Mclroys Playoff performance with 2 wins. Beyond that, if Rory and company at the top all have off weeks, you can have a very suspect (Bill Haas) "Playoff champion". Almost a champion by default. The only way they get to a point where your analogy is perfectly sound (not that it's completely flawed or anything) is with a match play final.

[PGArox]

[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1347248810' post='5614981']
The problem with the comparison is that the Pats lost to [i]the only[/i] opponent they could have lost to. Rory has 4 immediate opponents who can beat him. And of those opponents Watney is the only one who could, by winning, [i]equal[/i] Mclroys Playoff performance with 2 wins. Beyond that, if Rory and company at the top all have off weeks, you can have a very suspect (Bill Haas) "Playoff champion". Almost a champion by default. The only way they get to a point where your analogy is perfectly sound (not that it's completely flawed or anything) is with a match play final.
[/quote]

Good rebuttal. I won't deny that the FedEx Cup is an easy target for criticism.

[kitsoasis]

Isn't it purposely flawed? So that they don't risk having the drawcard players missing out.

[KYMAR]

Well I think it's the best they can do short of match play. I am pretty sure Accenture is fairly protective of their Match play event and don't want to see it upstaged by one that is called the Tour Championship. And there is no point in a 30 man TC that 20 of the guys have truly zero chance of winning the thing. Like I said, it's not perfect, but with the level of golf that these guys are playing, I will gladly take this compared to Tiger, Phil, Rory et al. sitting at home resting for the Ryder cup. I loved these last 2 weeks and am very much looking forward to the Tour Championship. Has the potential to be awewsome, even if it is very limited field, made for TV event.

[Jim Clark]

See my prior post. The 1st three playoff events have too many points available. Guys who had a mediocre year can potentially win the Cup. If Vijay had won yesterday, he would have vaulted from 49th to 5th place in points and been in a good position to potentially win the Cup.

Tour Championship should be 16 or 32 guys in match play (I would favor 16). Winner gets the Cup.

If you like this current format you must also like the way they choose the college football national champion, I hate the non-playoff format for college football, but it actually makes a lot more sense than the FedEx Cup. Only the cream of the crop has a chance to become national champion in college football. A slouch with a mediocre year can get hot for a couple of weeks and steal the FedEx Cup. The formula is flawed.

[Solutions Etcetera]

[quote name='Jim Clark' timestamp='1347278936' post='5615789']The formula is flawed.
[/quote]

Agreed. After an entire season, you take the top 125 into the playoffs? That is worse than the NBA!

[Hacker#5252]

[quote name='Jim Clark' timestamp='1347278936' post='5615789']
See my prior post. The 1st three playoff events have too many points available. Guys who had a mediocre year can potentially win the Cup. If Vijay had won yesterday, he would have vaulted from 49th to 5th place in points and been in a good position to potentially win the Cup.

Tour Championship should be 16 or 32 guys in match play (I would favor 16). Winner gets the Cup.

If you like this current format you must also like the way they choose the college football national champion, I hate the non-playoff format for college football, but it actually makes a lot more sense than the FedEx Cup. Only the cream of the crop has a chance to become national champion in college football. A slouch with a mediocre year can get hot for a couple of weeks and steal the FedEx Cup. The formula is flawed.
[/quote]

Actually, there will be playoffs in college football starting in 2014 I believe.

As for the concept of playoffs, in any other major sports, the regular season is simply used to position yourself for the playoffs. When the playoffs start, the regular season is done, it doesn't mean anything anymore, and everyone taking part has an equal chance of winning. The concept of home-field advantage doesn't apply to golf however. In hockey, the home team changes last and are favored in face-offs. In baseball, home teams bat last and play according to the rules of their own league. In football, the noise from the home crowd is a priceless advantage, and the climate too. Basketball: I don't care about that.

Golf playoffs need fewer players, match-play and best-of series. Make it different, make it more physical. This isn't tennis, players don't get hurt left and right as much. Make them play 2 rounds a day for a stretch, with rest in between series. Keep the same playoff courses so nobody is upset. Make every hole count. Forget the point system. Points are good for the regular season, but playoffs should be about beating your opponent. Points awarded during the season will dictate matches (#1 vs #64). Give a one-hole lead to the top seeds (1 through 32 in a 64-player playoff, for the first round only) to give more meaning to rankings.

these are just suggestions, I don't pretend to know the absolute truth.

[Vindog]

I might get some flak for this but he real comparison doesn't lie in team sports, but in nascar's Sprint Cup, imo. I don't like the reduced fields in Fed Ex. I feel as if it makes each tournament easier. In the Sprint Cup...All the racers still race, but the only ones available for The Chase, are the ones who qualify at the end of the "regular season. You can still have points cuts, but the fields should ramain full strength.

You can try to give incentives to increase competition in the non-Fed Ex players like they do in the Cup, as well as still playing for OWGR and the purse...just not the fed ex cup bonus.

[canonlbp430]

[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1347285821' post='5616221']
I might get some flak for this but he real comparison doesn't lie in team sports, but in nascar's Sprint Cup, imo. I don't like the reduced fields in Fed Ex. I feel as if it makes each tournament easier. In the Sprint Cup...All the racers still race, but the only ones available for The Chase, are the ones who qualify at the end of the "regular season. You can still have points cuts, but the fields should ramain full strength.

You can try to give incentives to increase competition in the non-Fed Ex players like they do in the Cup, as well as still playing for OWGR and the purse...just not the fed ex cup bonus.
[/quote]

I agree with this comparison and it's actually how the PGA came up with the Fed Ex Cup model. Can't compare PGA to NFL or college football.

[Solutions Etcetera]

I don't understand the need to obfuscate it further.

I want to know who is ahead in the playoffs at any given time by looking at the scoreboard, and not having to maintain a spreadsheet. Spreadsheets and if/thens are for determining playoff participants, not for the actual playoffs (which we simply don't have in golf). The word is simply a marketing gimmick.