Bridgestone must be making a dent in ProV1 sales...

[PZero]

[quote name='njlam' timestamp='1346627221' post='5575869']
As far as I am concerned, all Titleist needs to do to gain market share is to be more competitive (realistic?) on price.
[/quote]

They are competitive. They have the $19.99 DT Solo at the bottom, Velocity and NXT Tour in the middle, and the Pro V1 at the top of the line. They want to keep the perception of the Pro V1 being the best so they price it higher than any other premium ball.

[storm3]

Does everyone realize that the Pro V1 is only priced $2 more per dozen than the Nike 20xi, TM Penta TP5, and Callaway HEX Black? Are people really complaining about an extra 17 cents per ball? Prior to 2012, the top ball from each company has been priced consistently with the Pro V1.

[cristphoto]

[quote name='storm319' timestamp='1346638093' post='5576683']
Does everyone realize that the Pro V1 is only priced $2 more per dozen than the Nike 20xi, TM Penta TP5, and Callaway HEX Black? Are people really complaining about an extra 17 cents per ball? Prior to 2012, the top ball from each company has been priced consistently with the Pro V1.
[/quote]

Not really. All summer the Penta TP5 has been "buy two get one" which places it in the $30 range. Granted the list price of the Penta is similar to the Prov1 but in reality it isn't due to the ongoing sale. Similar sales occurred this year with Srixon, Nike and Callaway. It appears Bridgestone and Titleist simply don't go on sale (at least in my area). For my game the Penta TP5 is a better ball than the ProV1. As Bob Dylan once said, "The times they are a changing".

[Scotty1140]

[quote name='storm319' timestamp='1346638093' post='5576683']
Does everyone realize that the Pro V1 is only priced $2 more per dozen than the Nike 20xi, TM Penta TP5, and Callaway HEX Black? Are people really complaining about an extra 17 cents per ball? Prior to 2012, the top ball from each company has been priced consistently with the Pro V1.
[/quote]
True, but it's pretty common to see some of the others on sale. I just saw 20XI's at $26.99 at my golf shop. Penta's are often buy 2 get 1.

[Jobu]

ProV1's should be $100/dozen, as they've gotten longer off the tee and spinnier around the greens with every passing year.

[storm3]

[quote name='cristphoto' timestamp='1346639045' post='5576783']
[quote name='storm319' timestamp='1346638093' post='5576683']
Does everyone realize that the Pro V1 is only priced $2 more per dozen than the Nike 20xi, TM Penta TP5, and Callaway HEX Black? Are people really complaining about an extra 17 cents per ball? Prior to 2012, the top ball from each company has been priced consistently with the Pro V1.
[/quote]

Not really. All summer the Penta TP5 has been "buy two get one" which places it in the $30 range. Granted the list price of the Penta is similar to the Prov1 but in reality it isn't due to the ongoing sale. Similar sales occurred this year with Srixon, Nike and Callaway. It appears Bridgestone and Titleist simply don't go on sale (at least in my area). For my game the Penta TP5 is a better ball than the ProV1. As Bob Dylan once said, "The times they are a changing".
[/quote]

It sounds like people are more upset with the fact that Titleist never puts their balls on sale rather than the actual retail pricing strategy (two different issues). Titleist has done buy 3 get 1 ProV1 promos for the past few years, but they don't really need to considering it is still the highest selling ball at full price. You can also regularly find Practice ProV1's for $29.99 / dozen.

The other companies do promos in an attempt to make up for poor sales (no point in a promo when people are willing to buy at full price, right?).

[J13]

[quote name='storm319' timestamp='1346641759' post='5576981']
[quote name='cristphoto' timestamp='1346639045' post='5576783']
[quote name='storm319' timestamp='1346638093' post='5576683']
Does everyone realize that the Pro V1 is only priced $2 more per dozen than the Nike 20xi, TM Penta TP5, and Callaway HEX Black? Are people really complaining about an extra 17 cents per ball? Prior to 2012, the top ball from each company has been priced consistently with the Pro V1.
[/quote]

Not really. All summer the Penta TP5 has been "buy two get one" which places it in the $30 range. Granted the list price of the Penta is similar to the Prov1 but in reality it isn't due to the ongoing sale. Similar sales occurred this year with Srixon, Nike and Callaway. It appears Bridgestone and Titleist simply don't go on sale (at least in my area). For my game the Penta TP5 is a better ball than the ProV1. As Bob Dylan once said, "The times they are a changing".
[/quote]

It sounds like people are more upset with the fact that Titleist never puts their balls on sale rather than the actual retail pricing strategy (two different issues). Titleist has done buy 3 get 1 ProV1 promos for the past few years, but they don't really need to considering it is still the highest selling ball at full price. You can also regularly find Practice ProV1's for $29.99 / dozen.

The other companies do promos in an attempt to make up for poor sales (no point in a promo when people are willing to buy at full price, right?).
[/quote]

I don't think people are "upset" by golf ball prices, they are just becoming smarter with their money hence shopping around for the best option. Titleist pound for pound is probably the worst option on the market. Performance to cost just doesn't add up anymore as their are so many other options. I play prov1x when I get pro shop credit or free at a tourney but I would never buy a dozen at full retail. There are 5 other balls that all play relatively the same for much less.

[cristphoto]

I totally agree J13. I've played the ProV1 ever since it came out over 10 years ago. At that time there was very little competition (maybe the Strata). Since then other balls have caught up and surpassed the Prov1. Titleist doesn't have a monopoly on technology.

[soregongolfer]

[quote name='Jobu' timestamp='1346641545' post='5576971']
ProV1's should be $100/dozen, as they've gotten longer off the tee and spinnier around the greens with every passing year.
[/quote]

Do you think the current model spins more than the first two generations?

[Tgstan]

Good info in this thread. I've gone from v1x to nxt due to price and it's fine most of the time. I don't wonder if the nxt is actually a bit longer for me. But on hard greene i do notice a difference with wedge control even though I'm only about a 7-8 these days.

Going to try the Penta after some comments here!

[Rock Chalk Jayhawk]

I try other companies' balls, but I always come back to Titleist in the end. Nothing, simply NOTHING, performs like a Pro V1 / 1X around the greens. Other balls may be as good or better with the driver or short irons, but I only have magic around the greens with Pro V and Pro V1x golf balls. I wish this weren't the case, bc I would like paying less for golf balls. Oh well.

[Quasimoto]

A couple of things, getting back to the original theme:

The Bridgestone market world wide is much larger than North America.
World wide annual retail sales on brands/models would be a worthwhile stat.

Now, if BS says that it has balls based on swing speeds why aren't more LPGA players benefitting from playing the lower speed balls? In many instances the distances the ladies hit would imply <105mph SS.

[wfrogge1]

Yeah the whole "swing speed to ball" theory seems like bunk if you ask me. So we should buy a ball based on our driver speed.... You know the club you will hit a maximum of 14 times a round (based on four par 4s on a course). Makes more sense to base your ball off of how it feels on and around the green if you ask me.

Not saying the B330 balls arent nice (they are).

[Pritam]

It's funny cause I totally buy into the swing speed theory. The swing speed is actually based on your irons. I hit my driver around 103mph but my irons are steady at 95-100mph. I use the 330-RXS and have fallen in love with them. Long and straight. They don't bite on the greens (not that I swing anywhere near fast enough to generate back spin) but they do stop where I expect. I'll be trying the Pro V1 and V1x this week just to see but I'm a Bridgestone guy for right now.

[deck]

I use a couple different balls. What I look for is how I will do when I miss the green. 5 to 10 yards on the drive doesn't make that much of a difference in my game. I need a ball for when I miss a green. Can I stop it on a pitch on a dime? Can I pull it back on a string if I need to? Can I let it run out if I have to?

Those questions are what I ask when I am playing a ball. And to be honest I can do all that with the nxt tour. I don't need to play the prov1 or x. I will, don't get me wrong if they are given to me lol. But when I am buying one I go with nxt or the bridgestones.

[bellview17]

I have been working hard, not able to read the site in a few weeks. And, I come back and
a real conservation about something, thoughtful and logical....
What happened to this site. I really would enjoy this if it was more like this....

I am a 6 and use used golf balls. Any type of mid price used, lots of different brands.
I like the B-stones over others if I had a fav.... I like hitting low pitches and letting the ball
roll out on the greens. I hit the ball high to stop it, and like lower driver spin...

[Dizz]

[quote name='storm319' timestamp='1346641759' post='5576981']
[quote name='cristphoto' timestamp='1346639045' post='5576783']
[quote name='storm319' timestamp='1346638093' post='5576683']
Does everyone realize that the Pro V1 is only priced $2 more per dozen than the Nike 20xi, TM Penta TP5, and Callaway HEX Black? Are people really complaining about an extra 17 cents per ball? Prior to 2012, the top ball from each company has been priced consistently with the Pro V1.
[/quote]

Not really. All summer the Penta TP5 has been "buy two get one" which places it in the $30 range. Granted the list price of the Penta is similar to the Prov1 but in reality it isn't due to the ongoing sale. Similar sales occurred this year with Srixon, Nike and Callaway. It appears Bridgestone and Titleist simply don't go on sale (at least in my area). For my game the Penta TP5 is a better ball than the ProV1. As Bob Dylan once said, "The times they are a changing".
[/quote]

It sounds like people are more upset with the fact that Titleist never puts their balls on sale rather than the actual retail pricing strategy (two different issues). Titleist has done buy 3 get 1 ProV1 promos for the past few years, but they don't really need to considering it is still the highest selling ball at full price. You can also regularly find Practice ProV1's for $29.99 / dozen.

The other companies do promos in an attempt to make up for poor sales (no point in a promo when people are willing to buy at full price, right?).
[/quote]

I was wondering how long it would take before someone finally posted it. If golf balls are in a shop all marked $46-48 which ball is gonna be selected 95% of the time? The ProV1 or ProV1X... Penta runs a special just to get a sale. So instead of spending $100 on 2 dozen balls you spend $100 and get 3 dozen balls... lots of guys in my shop will take advantage of that strategy. TM needs to do this to get their ball in play by more players because it really does perform. Titleist doesn't need this strategy to sell balls however and they use holidays and events to let players purchase balls at a "bulk" or "Buy 2/3 get 1 free" rate which usually includes free personalization. Titleist has always been pretty good about not watering down their own product... and its a catch 22 with customers. Charge someone $30 for something once and you're gonna be hard pressed to ever get them to spend $50 for it ever again.

As far as Bridgestone goes, I absolutely disagree with their philosophy on golf balls. I've done too many fittings on high end launch monitors with different balls to know that on full swing the differences are so small that its predicated more on the player and his swing than the ball. Going from e5 to B330S (or DT Solo to ProV1) isn't changing spin enough to keep the ball in the fairway versus the rough/water/bunker. But on wedge shots and finesse shots with short swings the difference is enough to justify spending the additional dollars... at least, for most players.

[PrO_D_BoMbEr]

Found a sleeve of the new Bridgestone B330-s ball in my house, not sure exactly where it came from but thought I would give them a try. Automatically fell in love with them and started hitting irons and wedges closer, basically more because of trajectory. Didn't have to work to manipulate the trajectory as much as I did with the Pro V1 and Pro V1x. Been playing some good golf with the B330-S.

Received a sleeve of the 2013 Pro v1x to test for Titleist. Thought I would love the ball after reading about them. After (2) 9 hole rounds with them, went back to the B330-S on the back 9 and just night and day better all around. The B330-S flies higher and doesn't balloon.

Waiting on the 913 stuff and will have an almost all titleist bag but sticking with the B330-S for the foreseeable future. That dimple in dimple technology isn't a joke, if Bridgestone could perfect durability a little better, then the ball would be the perfect ball.

[mwmgolfx]

[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1346554710' post='5573077']
Good discussion. I agree with the general thesis regarding the pricing of the ProVs. All of my golfing chums are pretty avid rec players and I don't think anyone of us actually buy ProVs off the shelf. Like everybody's swing, ball expereince is very individualistic and often open to preconceived biases. I am from the camp that if the labels were removed, etc, that most of us couldn't tell the difference. Sure, soft feel vs. clicky feel and/or visual spin differences would be noticeable but I am pretty confident most of us could not identify the brands assuming dimple patterns were controlled for.

With that said I am a bit of an anomally, 6 index with a slow swing speed, 87/88 with the driver. In my experience, Titleist is correct, I have seen zero difference in ball performance based on compression. Some of my longest drives have come with both types of ProV's and the Srixon premium balls.

A few general observations:

1. Bridestone and Titlesit are very rarely on sale to the price points where I would stock up.

2. IMHO the slow swing speed tour balls are the biggest ripoffs. The Bridgestone RX and RXS are total marketing snow jobs. The RX is an embarassment in terms of price vs. performance. I have not played the Srixon SL so I cannot comment there.

3. The short game advantage of the premium balls is highly overrated. Even most mid to high single digit players can't chip or pitch the ball consistently. You still have to hit a nice, crisp, well struck pitch shot to get some juice on the ball and more importantly it does not matter what ball you play if you have mediocre distance control. If I had a dollar for everytime my playing buddies got excited for juicing a 30 yard pitch shot 15 feet short and two putting for bogey I could retire.

4. Even most of the quality two piece balls will stop just fine on a well hit approach shot assuming you are playing on a decent course with well constructed and maintained greens. With today's equipment, a decent player can get the ball up in the air with solid spin. I doubt 99.9% of the golfing population outside of the tour and top flight amateurs have the distance control where 3 or 4 feet of approach shot run off makes a bit of difference.

5. As far as working the ball, I can't do it, only slightly, even with premium balls. I would like a much better player than me address this aspect. Can the really good players work the mid-teir balls?

6. Assuming you are not playing in a parking lot or a goat track or a course with some other odd characteristics I would be surprised if the type of ball would matter at all in terms of score.

7 Watching my fellow amateurs play and taking a serious in depth look at my own game I would say scoring wise here the biggest problems for most players...

Putting
Chipping
Drive the ball in the fairway
Course Management is abysmal.

Course Managment is my favorite. I have seen some people do some unbelivably stupid things on the course in terms of course management that makes you wonder about their sanity.
[/quote]

Since no one else commented on some of these points, I thought I'd reply. I'm about a 9 overall handicap but being a senior player I learned long ago that the short game is the key. So I putt extremely well and have very strong short game.

That said, point 3 - I disagree strongly with. I buy sleeves and even boxes of all the major balls and try them on several courses I play. Quite often I'm able to play by myself so I can get to a point and hit 3-6 or more balls onto the green. I've found for me, at least, there is a serious difference in the feel and play of the Titileist Pro Vs (1 and x) over some of the other balls, especially the cheaper balls. Not as much on the other premium but there the difference in price is usually minimal and other issues decide the difference on them for me.

I don't spin the ball a lot but with the titleist, I can do drop and stop (within a couple of feet) and I do expect distance control a lot. Generally I can pitch the ball the correct distance, just have issues at time with the line - alignment is an issue. With the cheaper balls, distance control suffers a lot. And putting and chipping distance control is a serious issue with some of the balls like the HX DIablo Tour or the Bridgestone, or even the Titleist NXT tour, etc. So I would disagree again with Point #4. Chipping distance control is something I spend a lot of time working on and is seriously important to me. (remember I'm officially a 9 or 10 hdcp). Three to 4 feet difference makes a lot of difference to me.

Point 5 - Usually I can work a driver fade or draw as needed. Irons NOT. Woods sometimes. wedges never ever try as I'm almost always going for the pin or the safe spot near the pin (course management is critical and seriously important). I can work mid-tier balls (driver) but not as easily as the top premium balls from Callaway, TM and Titleist. That's another reason I use the Titleist.

Point 6 - the type of ball matters seriously to me. I have a serious distance issue (not with driver) but with mid to shorter irons with many of the cheaper balls. One of my ball tests I use a lot is to go to a par-3 near where I live that is 150 yards to the center of the green and hit several shots from the tee to the green. (course was ranked in Florida so its not a dog-track by any means) What I've found is that almost all of the mid-tier and cheap balls are anywhere from 5-20 or more yards shorter than the top premium balls on this test for me. And I do the same test from 100 yards. Same issue here. Premium are consistent in distance, mid-tier and below are always shorter and usually inconsistent. And that's the most critical point and test for me. If I can't control the distance of the ball from 60-115 yards, then i can't score. It makes quite a difference in my score when i can count on 100 yards being exactly 100 yards (wind excluded of course). When I'm playing reasonably well, I expect to be within 20 feet all the time inside 100 yards and usually within 15. with some of the mid-tiers I'm lucky if I'm within 20 yards. Since I can putt, that's how I make up strokes by recovering from my mistakes and shortness earlier. And if I can't get it semi-close or on the green with that recovery shot consistently, it adds a number of strokes to my score.

However, I would have to agree with his comment about course management. Most players wouldn't know decent course management if it hit them on the head. ANd his general comments on problems areas are right on in my opinion. For me, it's mid-long irons as the problem (and woods) not the short game, but I'll freely admit my game is different from average.

That said, titleist is my choice strictly for the control, consistency and advantages in the short game. All things Titleist advertises and delivers on.

Think about this: Most strong amateurs that play in tournaments use Titleist as well (and they are usually paying for their own equipment including balls), why? If not titleist, it's usually one of the other premium balls ($4 a ball), not the mid-tier. If one is paying for it and competing at a high level, there must be some reason that they're shelling out the money.

I do buy a lot of Pro V x-outs etc as well as practice balls such as TM and even slasinger - for use when I'm making swing changes and practicing things on the course and don't want to lose a lot of $4 balls. But when I want to score, the Pro V1 or the Pro V1X come out.

[Oldboy]

i used to play the prov1 .. then several years ago they jacked the price up .. about the time bridgestone etc. started to make balls that perform just as well as the provs .. so i moved on .. the provs are simply another premium multi-layer ball .. they don't stand out enough to warrant being $2-3/box pricier imo .. so i play a different brand .. at this moment in time i don't see how anyone can definitively say the prov is superior to any of the top tier offerings from bridgestone, callaway, tm, etc. so why pay the extra charge.. thats how i see it .. in fact i've found the z star xv and the b330 to perform as well if not better than the provs ... jmo

[endy]

The durability issue is what caused me to switch from V1x to B330. Needless to say, I don't see myself going back anytime soon, although difference in performance was negligible.

[fhasel]

Is Titleist's market share for balls declining? Maybe somewhat for the Pro V/V1x series because several, if not all ball manufacturers are making balls that compare favorably to the Pro V/V1x.

Over the past 3 years I've played the Pro V1x, B330s, & Z-Star X. For me the differences between them are minimal in terms of distance off the tee, spin around the green, and feel. I like all 3 and have no problem playing any of them. That being said, the Titleists & B-stones were gifts, but I bought 4 doz of the Z-Star X's at Dick's for $22/doz when they were being closed out. I also just bought 3 doz of the Z-Star XV at an incredible deal thru amazon.

Bottom line. I'll play any of them, but only buy them if the price is right, but that price isn't $40+ per doz.

[mbell697]

[quote name='Tommymn' timestamp='1346539202' post='5572109']
If your a high handicap and play 4-5 dollar balls I feel bad for your wallet. It's rediculous that people think they need a high buck ball to shoot 90+. Play a cheap ball and get lessons.
[/quote]

I'm a low handicap player and a good ball striker and I'm switching to the Srixon XV over cost now that I'm playing much more. I rarely loose a ball but 1 firmly hit wedge and a Pro V1x looks like the XV looks after it hits a tree. I never have to wonder where on the face I hit a wedge, its where there are pieces of the cover stuck in the grooves. I go through Pro V1xs faster than I ever did the pro 100 (or tour balata before it). Combine this with being a fairly long player and playing at a fairly short home course (lots of wedge shots) and I'm lucky to have a Pro V1x last 3 holes. I'm not about to spend time repairing the covers with nail polish remover after every round just for the sake of playing the Pro V1x, not when the variations between top end balls are so small.

[EzDuzIt]

Ya know when Pro V1's first came out like what a decade ago.....I played them for the feel and spin. Nothing touched it. Now technology has taken a turn in every aspect from balls to shafts and club sizes....etc. I love Bridgestone balls and I play with the Rx330 and Rx330S, callaway Hex black and chromes as well as Pro V1 balls or anything in that type of category but those are my main players. I think Pro v1 is taken a side seat to some up and coming companies making just as good of golf balls! I do not play a ball because it is cool or what pro's use though!

[gvogel]

I played a bunch of balls this past year - ProV1, ProV1x, B330rx, B330RXS, e6, Z-Star, Velocity, Hex Black, Hex Chrome, wison Duo. I play both modern golf and hickory.

Off my modern driver, the ProV1x and Velocity were the longest. Playing hickory, the B330RX and ProV1 were best. Having said that, the difference between best and not so best really isn't much.

I scored the best with my hickories with a ProV1. I thought that this year's B330RX was not as good as last year's.

I scored best with ProV1x with my modern stuff. It was fun to spin some of my pitches with that ball. I improved my handicap from 7 to 5.

This fall, I did a launch monitor fitting with a new 913 D2. It turns out that I don't spinn the ball enough for my 93 mph ss. Smash factor was excellent. I'll be using ProV1's next year, and trying others from time to time.

[johnstitch]

Not sure about US but in the UK Srixon are giving Titleist a really hard time. Srixon AD333 and Soft Feel's are amazingly popular among the average player and Z-Stars are making bigger and bigger inroads into the players market.
Add in our local store is offering Z-stars at £19-99 and Titleist at £35-99 and guess what is selling.

The TP5 also did well this year but Nike's 20ZX1 died a painfull death, Cally still struggle and why Wilson even attempt to make a premium ball is beyond me. Bridgestone is almost invisible green grass, you only see them on the net.....

[Golfjunkie 2010]

ProV1 has such a monopoly in the golf ball market that Bridgestone would have to create an almighty ball to shake things up. Everyone knows the high-end balls from the main manufacturers (Titleist, Callaway, Srixon, Taylormade, Bridgestone) are very similar... but Titleist have done a great marketing job. Also, Bill Morgan - father of golf ball technology... is considered a legend at Acushnet.

[johnstitch]

I think you will see Srixon doing Titleist more harm as years go by. I know a lot of Titleist die hards who have switched. Their products are top class. I like Bridgestone Balls, particularly the B330S for control but they are not that clever in strong winds and spin almost too much off full iron shots. We are so lucky to have the choice of premium balls these days, as a junior your options were Titleist, Maxfli and Slazenger, that was your lot until the Strata and Ultra Balata moved the goalposts.

[grm24]

[quote name='PrO_D_BoMbEr' timestamp='1352238649' post='5900277']
That dimple in dimple technology isn't a joke.
[/quote]
Wonder why that haven't used it on all the balls they make all the time. They used it years back on the Precept Dynawing (Bridgestone is the parent company of Precept) went away from it but brought it back. Likely used it on other Precept balls as well. Other ball manufacturers have used dimple in dimple as well.

[cpeck]

this could be revived for the new tour series. maybe better run with new dimple design