Provisonal balls

[plusone609]

Hello,

 

On a par five, after a great tee shot down the middle of the fairway, I went on and hit my second shot directly into the high rough (knee length). Since on a previous hole we had to search for a fellow competitor’s golf ball I knew how unlikely I was going to retrieve my ball I decided to play a provisional ball which unfortunately headed towards the high rough again.

 

While the first shot clearly landed directly in the high rough the second first landed in the normal rough and finished just on the edge of the high rough. I decided not to play a second provisional ball thinking that if we couldn’t find the first one we would at least find the provisional one.

 

Unfortunately, having failed to find my first and my provisional ball, playing in a stroke play competition, I walked back to hit another provisional ball taking 2 clubs less. My playing partners in the mean time were still located where we thought my balls were.

 

Sadly I failed again to find the fairway and my ball landed directly where my playing partners were.

From there I came to the conclusion that we were looking at the wrong place and that my first provisional ball had to be closer to the hole. Indeed after walking 20 meters up my ball was laying just on the edge of the rough.

 

I had never been confronted to this situation and thought that I could play my first provisional ball. My marker however informed me that since I had walked back I now had to be playing my second provisional ball.

 

Under these circumstances could I have played my first provisional ball or did I now have to be playing my second provisional ball?

 

What a nightmare!

 

Thank you for your help

[Stuart_G]

As long as the second provisional was actually declared provisional and [b]the first provisional was found within the 5 minute time limit[/b], you can certainly play the first provisional.

It all depends on how long you were searching before going back, then how long it took you to go back, hit the second provisional and then return to the location.

Keep in mind that because the original and first provisional were in roughly the same location you don't get 10 minutes to find the first provisional:

[b] 27/4[/b]

[b] Time Permitted for Search for Original Ball and Provisional Ball[/b]

Q.Is a player allowed five minutes to search for his original ball and five more minutes to search for his provisional ball, or just a total of five minutes?
A.If the two balls are so close together that, in effect, both balls would be searched for simultaneously, a total of five minutes for search is allowed. Otherwise, the player is allowed to search five minutes for each ball

[clewallen]

May I hijack this thread real quick, so off the tee on said par 5... I hit my tee shot clearly lost, do I drop as a lateral or do I hit a provisional and if I do hit a provision from the tee what would be my shot number to the hole? 3 or 4?

Sorry but thank you

[KevCarter]

[quote name='Stuart G.' timestamp='1347283032' post='5616005']
As long as the second provisional was actually declared provisional and [b]the first provisional was found within the 5 minute time limit[/b], you can certainly play the first provisional.
[/quote]

Really???

Take a peek at the procedure for playing a provisional ball....

[KevCarter]

27-2. Provisional Ball

a. Procedure
If a ball may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds, to save time the player may play another ball provisionally in accordance with Rule 27-1. The player must inform his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow-competitor in stroke play that he intends to play a provisional ball, and he must play it before he or his partner goes forward to search for the original ball.

If he fails to do so and plays another ball, that ball is not a provisional ball and becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1); the original ball is lost.

[AndrewZA]

I would have thought that as you conceded that you couldn't find ball 1 or 2, and went back to hit #3 that you were for all intents declaring ball 1&2 lost and ball #3 would now be the ball in play. That's how I would have called the situation if I was there, and its just plain unlucky that after you declared your previous balls lost that you found them. If however you were within the 5 minute period and specifically said you were going back to play a 2nd provisional, and you found ball 1 or 2 also inside 5 min then you'd play the earlier ball (this is probably unlikely as searching for ball 1&2 would take some time, as would going back, rehitting, walking back and continuing the search for balls 1&2).

[KevCarter]

[quote name='Stuart G.' timestamp='1347283693' post='5616065']
Also relevent

[b] 27-1/1[/b]

[b] Original Ball Found Within Five-Minute Search Period After Another Ball Teed[/b]

Q.A player plays from the teeing ground, searches briefly for his ball and then goes back and tees another ball. Before he plays the teed ball, and within the five-minute search period, the original ball is found. May the player abandon the teed ball and play the original ball?
A.Yes. The teed ball was not in play since the player had not yet made a stroke at it - see Definition of "Ball in Play" - and the original ball was not lost - see Definition of "Lost Ball."
[/quote]

Not relevant in this case.

[Stuart_G]

Yes - I just deleted it - it wasn't in reference to a provisional. This is more helpful. So I do stand corrected. You can't "go back" to hit a provisional. Only to go back and put a ball in play.

[b] 27-2a/1.5[/b]

[b] Meaning of "Goes Forward to Search"[/b]

Q.With respect to Rule [url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-27/#27-2a"]27-2a[/url], when has a player gone forward to search for the original ball such that a provisional ball cannot be played?
A.The sole purpose of Rule [url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-27/#27-2"]27-2[/url] is to enable the player to save time. The only way he can effectively do so is to play the provisional ball before going forward for the purpose of searching for the original ball. However, this provision should not be so narrowly interpreted to preclude a player from playing a provisional ball even though he has proceeded from where he last played in the direction of the original ball, e.g., in retrieving a ball or a different club to play the provisional ball. The Committee must consider all of the relevant facts in determining if the player did in fact go forward to search for the original ball.

[plusone609]

Thank you all for your answers.

My marker was correct then.

I hope I never have to encounter such a situation.

[QEight]

[quote name='AndrewZA' timestamp='1347283779' post='5616079']
I would have thought that as you conceded that you couldn't find ball 1 or 2, and went back to hit #3 that you were for all intents declaring ball 1&2 lost and ball #3 would now be the ball in play. That's how I would have called the situation if I was there, and its just plain unlucky that after you declared your previous balls lost that you found them.
[/quote]

You can not declare ball lost. Unless you mean it by putting a new ball in play. Is this what you mean by "for all intents"?

[Newby]

[quote name='clewallen' timestamp='1347283508' post='5616047']
May I hijack this thread real quick, so off the tee on said par 5... I hit my tee shot clearly lost, do I drop as a lateral or do I hit a provisional and if I do hit a provision from the tee what would be my shot number to the hole? 3 or 4?

Sorry but thank you
[/quote]

Hijacking causes confusion. Please start a new thread.

[clewallen]

[quote name='Newby' timestamp='1347605864' post='5638073']
[quote name='clewallen' timestamp='1347283508' post='5616047']
May I hijack this thread real quick, so off the tee on said par 5... I hit my tee shot clearly lost, do I drop as a lateral or do I hit a provisional and if I do hit a provision from the tee what would be my shot number to the hole? 3 or 4?

Sorry but thank you
[/quote]

Hijacking causes confusion. Please start a new thread.
[/quote]

well really its the same question...just how do you decided if a provisionary ball is needed or a lateral drop?

[QEight]

[quote name='clewallen' timestamp='1347622637' post='5638315']
[quote name='Newby' timestamp='1347605864' post='5638073']
[quote name='clewallen' timestamp='1347283508' post='5616047']
May I hijack this thread real quick, so off the tee on said par 5... I hit my tee shot clearly lost, do I drop as a lateral or do I hit a provisional and if I do hit a provision from the tee what would be my shot number to the hole? 3 or 4?

Sorry but thank you
[/quote]

Hijacking causes confusion. Please start a new thread.
[/quote]

well really its the same question...just how do you decided if a provisionary ball is needed or a lateral drop?
[/quote]

OP asked how to continue if original or provisional ball has been found and another ball has already been put into play.

You ask when to hit provisional. Not quite the same.

Start another thread and it will be answered. Or read [url="http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-of-Golf.aspx#/rules/?ruleNum=27&subRuleNum=2"]http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-of-Golf.aspx#/rules/?ruleNum=27&subRuleNum=2[/url]

[Vindog]

[quote name='clewallen' timestamp='1347622637' post='5638315']
[quote name='Newby' timestamp='1347605864' post='5638073']
[quote name='clewallen' timestamp='1347283508' post='5616047']
May I hijack this thread real quick, so off the tee on said par 5... I hit my tee shot clearly lost, do I drop as a lateral or do I hit a provisional and if I do hit a provision from the tee what would be my shot number to the hole? 3 or 4?

Sorry but thank you
[/quote]

Hijacking causes confusion. Please start a new thread.
[/quote]

well really its the same question...just how do you decided if a provisionary ball is needed or a lateral drop?
[/quote]

lateral drops are for balls hit into lateral hazards. Provisionals are for lost balls and/or balls hit OB. If you lost a ball/hit it OB, then you hit a provisional, and if you can't find the original ball, then your provisional becomes in play...3rd stroke off the tee, lying 4.

If you hit a ball in a lateral hazard, then you proceed under those rules.

So basically...you never get a lateral drop if you hit OB or lose a ball. Never.

[Newby]

[quote name='clewallen' timestamp='1347622637' post='5638315']
[quote name='Newby' timestamp='1347605864' post='5638073']
[quote name='clewallen' timestamp='1347283508' post='5616047']
May I hijack this thread real quick, so off the tee on said par 5... I hit my tee shot clearly lost, do I drop as a lateral or do I hit a provisional and if I do hit a provision from the tee what would be my shot number to the hole? 3 or 4?

Sorry but thank you
[/quote]

Hijacking causes confusion. Please start a new thread.
[/quote]

well really its the same question...just how do you decided if a provisionary ball is needed or a lateral drop?
[/quote]

It is nothing like the same question except that you have used the word provisional - which has nothing to do with lateral water hazards.

[KevCarter]

[quote name='clewallen' timestamp='1347622637' post='5638315']
well really its the same question...just how do you decided if a provisionary ball is needed or a lateral drop?
[/quote]

It sounds like you may just be getting started on your journey of learning the rules. That's great! The way to start is to mark this web page:

[url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-01/"]http://www.usga.org/...f-Golf/Rule-01/[/url]

Start by learning the table of contents and try to become proficient in finding the applicable rule and you will be on your way. You don't need to memorize every rule, but being able to find them will be HUGE. Good luck CLEWALLEN!

Kevin

[Newby]

[quote name='clewallen' timestamp='1347622637' post='5638315']
[quote name='Newby' timestamp='1347605864' post='5638073']
[quote name='clewallen' timestamp='1347283508' post='5616047']
May I hijack this thread real quick, so off the tee on said par 5... I hit my tee shot clearly lost, do I drop as a lateral or do I hit a provisional and if I do hit a provision from the tee what would be my shot number to the hole? 3 or 4?

Sorry but thank you
[/quote]

Hijacking causes confusion. Please start a new thread.
[/quote]

well really its the same question...just how do you decided if a provisionary ball is needed or a lateral drop?
[/quote]

Kev has made a good suggestion but I would start here:

[url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Definitions/"]http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Definitions/[/url]

[KevCarter]

[quote name='Newby' timestamp='1347642417' post='5639801']

Kev has made a good suggestion but I would start here:

[url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Definitions/"]http://www.usga.org/...lf/Definitions/[/url]
[/quote]

Great point Newby!!!

[clewallen]

Thanks for involved in answering my question

[Vindog]

Why make 3 posts telling someone to make another thread when you can just answer the question in one post?

funny stuff.

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1347647852' post='5640277']
Why make 3 posts telling someone to make another thread when you can just answer the question in one post?
[/quote]

Perhaps because hijacking this thread in the third post was a touch disrespectful to the original poster.

[Vindog]

[quote name='Sawgrass' timestamp='1347653908' post='5640761']Perhaps because hijacking this thread in the third post was a touch disrespectful to the original poster.
[/quote]"disrespectful" may be a bit of a stretch, but point taken. It's not like topics have never meandered along berfore...

Disrespect is no way to combat disrespect, imo.

[clewallen]

well his question was answered also.

[Newby]

My point was that when a thread gets hijacked any complex discussion or contested response re the original topic may get confused or blurred. Further, anyone in future looking for an answer to the same (hijacking) question will not have easy access to the relevant responses.
Ideally posters would give reasonably meaningful and helpful title to the topic.
Compare
[b] [url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/727239-whadda-you-do/"]Whadda you do ???[/url][/b]

[color=#5A5A5A][size=3][background=rgb(238, 238, 238)] and [/background][/size][/color][url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/724531-what-would-you-do/"]What would you do[/url]
with
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[Vindog]

hey it's cool.

although a case could be made that a "provisional ball" question was actually made in a "provisional ball thread". But both questions were answered so all it's good.