How do you know your iron shafts are too soft?

[2muchclub]

As the title asks, how do you know when your shafts are too soft and hurting your game. I'm 60, play to 7, and am thinking about moving to softer shaft. ss with a 6 iron is still about 82-85 mph; 8 iron flies 150, however I gotta swing pretty hard to get the results I want. I also switched irons this year- went to Cally RAZR X Tours with DG300 shafts. I have always had a somewhat low ball flight (lot of lag in my swing), though irons stick pretty well.

 

I am not convinced the shafts are right for me. I am thinking about going to softer shaft. What would be the tell-tale signs of a too soft shaft - too high a ball flight? a draw to a hook?

 

Thanks

[robengel]

too soft would cause more hooks, too stiff would cause more blocks to the right

[starsail85]

too soft would result in more shaft bow and more shaft droop coming into impact, which would cause high rights if anything. ive never bought the soft goes left statement, if anything this would be torque related, and the same type of shaft rarely has alot of torque varience anyway.

i say it could cause high rights for two reasons, one that the ball would effectivly be reached by the clubhead sooner, so it will have closed down less, and also, the increased shaft droop would return the clubhead more toe down into impact, which can cause it to go right also

[robengel]

I am just hoping I can still play to a 7 when I'm 60, and worry about a stiff vs. regular shaft, that's awesome!

[drumdude96]

Try an R200 or R300. Still plenty stiff and you won't lose any accuracy I bet. I hit my 7 iron 180, and I can still get great control from an R300 whenever I hit a club with one in it. It's not like a regular flex Dynamic Gold is a noodle made for weaker players.

[katbird]

Rob and Mizu both correctly identify that overpowering the flex/torque of the shaft causes irratic dispersion...either to the right OR the left....
I SHOULD be using a senior flex, but I am so comfortable with the consistent (and accurate) results of regular flex graphites (Penley graphite lights) in my SSI irons that THAT is more important than another 10 or so yards I might get from more flexy shafts....I don't mind if others get more distance...as long as I get bullseyes with my arrows....

[Nessism]

With an 8 iron flight of 150 and low 80's 6 iron swing speed, I'd say S300 is about right for you. Maybe a smig stiff, but not overly so. Personally, I'd look for a lighter shaft than those DG's though, which are one of the heaviest iron shafts on the market. I recently reshafted some clubs with DG SL shafts and they are way easier to swing than regular DG...maybe too easy unless you bump the swingweight up a couple points.

As for what happens when a shaft is too soft, in my experience that mostly means a high ball flight and sensation of kick with the hands though impact.

BTW, the Callaway Razr X shafts, the uniflex type, would be a good match for you I think, only I think these may be parallel tip only. I bought a set of pulls and really liked them.

[j.lapp]

Would Tom Wishon be able to chime in on this? I'd imagine he has an idea

[TomWishon]

[quote name='2muchclub' timestamp='1348518819' post='5687383']
As the title asks, how do you know when your shafts are too soft and hurting your game. I'm 60, play to 7, and am thinking about moving to softer shaft. ss with a 6 iron is still about 82-85 mph; 8 iron flies 150, however I gotta swing pretty hard to get the results I want.

I am not convinced the shafts are right for me. I am thinking about going to softer shaft. What would be the tell-tale signs of a too soft shaft - too high a ball flight? a draw to a hook?

[/quote]

Over 35 yrs of fitting research under the belt has taught me a TON of things. Among these is that in iron shafts, you have to be 1) VERY aggressive with the downswing, 2) VERY late with your release, 3) MORE than one flex softer that what your swing speed indicates is right for you before you ever see shot dispersion from a decent swing at the ball.

With wood shafts the high rights or lefts could happen if you are a full flex softer than you should be AND you are also fairly aggressive in your swing - because wood shafts are always a lot more flexible than the same flex iron shaft. Iron shafts are quite stiff and bend half what a wood shaft actually bends in the swing. So in an iron to get to a point where the shaft is much too soft, you'd have to in essence switch from an S to an A - and even then you still would have to have a very aggressive swing with a very late release before you'd see anything negative in the ball flight.

What you might consider is finding an 80-90g graphite iron shaft that has an overall stiffness and bend profile that fits your swing speed + transition + tempo + point of release. I am 61, I am also a 6 to 7 these days, and I too came to a point where 150 at sea level changed from a smooth 8 iron to having to lean on the 8 iron a little more. So I went to an 85g iron shaft with the same stiffness design that I had in my previous preferred steel shafts and things are just fine. Takes some work to find the swingweight or headweight feel that keeps your tempo in control without being quick, but that's not hard to find. You start with one iron with the graphite iron shaft of choice and experiment with lead tape on the head until you find that right headweight feel for the drop in total weight that comes from using the lighter graphite shaft. Back to a smooth 8 from 150.

TOM

[2muchclub]

Thank you for your response Tom. I will soon be visiting a fitter that has your certification. A question - how do your fitters determine/quantify a late release. I have used the Mizuno swing analyzer and that system shows a 8 or 9 for my release number.

[LuckyGolfer2009]

For me personally, if the flex is too soft in my irons/wedges I hit the ball poorly.

[mnessari]

After doing all the research, I decided to go from S300 in my irons to Rifle 6.5's, no more fat shots or balloons to the right.. I play X in all my woods and I found it to be much more consistent for me with all my irons, now wedges, that is my next test, wedge flex may have to go.

[Pepperturbo]

Too soft hooks high left and often longer (a lot of run-out) than expected club yardage, uncontrollable (the reason I don't play "R".) Too stiff everything slices right coming up short of normal yardage.

 

I may be overstepping but think the goal would be as straight a trajectory as possible with controllable yardages. I am almost ten years older than you and play to low single with a 150 yard 7 iron, 8 iron 140 yards and 215+ yard 2 iron.

 

Those Razr XTour irons are nice but have really strong lofts throughout the set so I wouldn't use yardage as a basis. FYI: stock your 8i = 37*, and PW 45*, my 8i is 39* and PW is 48*. I have been playing PX 6.0 since 2006 and was beginning to lose yardage so recently tried "R" shafts but found them loosey-goosey left. My answer was going to lighter tour stiff graphite shafts only stay with "S" which regained the lost yardages.

[mnessari]

After doing all the research, I decided to go from S300 in my irons to Rifle 6.5's, no more fat shots or balloons to the right.. I play X in all my woods and I found it to be much more consistent for me with all my irons, now wedges, that is my next test, wedge flex may have to go.

[Ri_Redneck]

Just to throw another wrench in the works, sometimes the technically right shaft does not fit the golfer's mindset. If you get the impression of "loss of clubhead control" when swinging any shaft, your swing will be affected. I've seen many players who, when properly fitted into an "R" or "A" flex shaft, played great initially and then begin to feel like they don't have good control of the clubhead with the softer flex. The doubt in their mind eats them up and their swing suffers because they unconsciously try to adjust for the feel.

 

I strongly agree with Tom's recommendation for graphite iron shafts. I switched several years back for pain issues, but also found that my distance went back to near what I had 15 yrs ago! Today's graphite irons shafts can give you a much better feel with no loss of control. However, as he mentioned, proper swingweighting is key.

 

BT

[Tommyj]

For me its all about feel. When the shaft is too soft my timing goes off and I start trying to steer my shots. At that point I don't know where the ball is going any more. Tends to happen more with shafts that are tip soft. I agree with @Nessism about trying a lighter weight shaft. Regular weight DG are too much for me over 18 holes but I love the DG 120. Has a similar feel, plays maybe just a touch softer, but allows me to maintain a fairly consistent tempo throughout my round.