Tour players who smoke

[Hogan's Cardy]

[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1351083992' post='5838251']
[quote name='Hogan's Cardy' timestamp='1351082861' post='5838205']
Imagine how people would feel if your sanctimonious plans to make courses smoke free ever did become the law. [/quote]

I would imagine they would feel the same way as they currently do about bars, concert halls, malls, grocery stores, restaurants, outdoor stadiums and every other place that used to let people smoke. It's not like I don't respect people's rights, I argue for the rights of the non smoker, the people who for years had to indirectly tolerate a filthy habit that spilled into every segment of society.

Hopefully soon the PGA will make it mandatory that players cannot smoke and there is no smoking on the grounds of their events. If tour players have addiction problems, I can't believe they don't have resources to deal with these. Believe me if they started suspending people for doing it, everyone on tour would quit very fast. I do like some of the suggestions we have seen here. Targeting a players sponsors for supporting a smoker is a very good idea.
[/quote]

I'm sorry but that's nonsense. The places you list are either indoors or where a smoker is in close contact with a large group of other people, which is nothing like a golf course. So, no, they wouldn't feel the same way at all.

It's not the healthiest habit agreed but it's far less a filthy one than what you think is the right thing to do. Targeting sponsors? Please get real unless you want to target guys who drive high emission vehicles, fly planes et al.

[KNGR5150]

[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1351089490' post='5838647']
[size=4]We’ve had smoking discussions on Wrx many times, and it always amazes me that we never get to meet the guy who is littering at Pro events or even public courses. No matter if we speak of the old days at the Buick Open, or as recently as this weekend, I see a ton of smoking related garbage every time I play a round of golf. High class course or public, it matters not. Those awful chewed up cigars that are hard to look at without wanting to puke. Cigarette butts everywhere. We had one of our smokers catch a trash can on the course on fire last year.[/size]
[size=4]Again, this behavior isn’t restricted to the amateur level. We have all seen Pro golfers have a smoke, then flick the cigarette off into the grass or fairway. At an absolute minimum, I wish the Pros who did smoke would at least not liter. But I suppose that woudl be an attack on their freedoms. [/size]
[/quote] The last time I played, there was just as much chewed up and spit out seeds with the empty bags, empty water bottles and snack wrappers as there was cigarette and cigar butts laying around.

[ej002]

[quote name='hogans71' timestamp='1351047455' post='5837199']
[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1351046600' post='5837127']
[quote name='hogans71' timestamp='1351046189' post='5837101']
How in God's name is the PGA Tour irresponsible? Honestly, is no one able to make up their own mind?
[/quote]

I know I can't, I'm glued to the "what Nike clubs will rory play" thread so I can rush out and get the same gear he has the minute the deal is finalized.

Oh, and now that I've seen the Palmer hogan picture I'm going to start smoking too, mostly on golf courses, and in cosmerica park and ford field, maybe the big house too, I dunno, I'll let you guys know when I get to Michigan.
[/quote]

If you make it downtown Chicago I know of a couple bars that openly flaunt their allowance of smoking to take place...
[/quote]

Downtown too? I thought it was just a southside thing. It must be on of those dark transient places under the EL...

[ej002]

[quote name='imakaveli' timestamp='1351006286' post='5833293']
[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1351005547' post='5833219']
[quote name='imakaveli' timestamp='1351005284' post='5833179']
Can the gallery smoke in the US?
[/quote]

Depends on the course. Places like Torrey Pines and maybe Bethpage no because they are public courses in public parks run by the State/City.

A private course may or may not allow smoking, or only allow them in designated areas (which is the most common in general). In my opinion it's wise to provide smoking sections, because people actually use them. If you prohibit smoking, some people are going to smoke anyways wherever they want. Or so I've noticed.

But I don't think there is an official umbrella policy.
[/quote]

So in the PGA Tour events is up to the course?
[/quote]

FWIW - There was always smoking allowed at Cog Hill ( in the past) and at the Ryder Cup this year. Considering how packed the Ryder Cup was, I don't recall ever really noticing it. I did see a bunch of guys with cigars and stuff, but for the most part they are respectful and just back out of the heavy crowds. Most people aren't stupid and have some courtesy. Indoors or in a seated event, I can see how that may be an issue. Totally different scenerios.

[hogans71]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1351092594' post='5838915']
[quote name='hogans71' timestamp='1351047455' post='5837199']
[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1351046600' post='5837127']
[quote name='hogans71' timestamp='1351046189' post='5837101']
How in God's name is the PGA Tour irresponsible? Honestly, is no one able to make up their own mind?
[/quote]

I know I can't, I'm glued to the "what Nike clubs will rory play" thread so I can rush out and get the same gear he has the minute the deal is finalized.

Oh, and now that I've seen the Palmer hogan picture I'm going to start smoking too, mostly on golf courses, and in cosmerica park and ford field, maybe the big house too, I dunno, I'll let you guys know when I get to Michigan.
[/quote]

If you make it downtown Chicago I know of a couple bars that openly flaunt their allowance of smoking to take place...
[/quote]

Downtown too? I thought it was just a southside thing. It must be on of those dark transient places under the EL...
[/quote]

Ha ha! Nah...

One that stands out is Richards Bar at Milwaukee and Halsted...

[hogans71]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1351092912' post='5838945']
[quote name='imakaveli' timestamp='1351006286' post='5833293']
[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1351005547' post='5833219']
[quote name='imakaveli' timestamp='1351005284' post='5833179']
Can the gallery smoke in the US?
[/quote]

Depends on the course. Places like Torrey Pines and maybe Bethpage no because they are public courses in public parks run by the State/City.

A private course may or may not allow smoking, or only allow them in designated areas (which is the most common in general). In my opinion it's wise to provide smoking sections, because people actually use them. If you prohibit smoking, some people are going to smoke anyways wherever they want. Or so I've noticed.

But I don't think there is an official umbrella policy.
[/quote]

So in the PGA Tour events is up to the course?
[/quote]

FWIW - There was always smoking allowed at Cog Hill ( in the past) and at the Ryder Cup this year. Considering how packed the Ryder Cup was, I don't recall ever really noticing it. I did see a bunch of guys with cigars and stuff, but for the most part they are respectful and just back out of the heavy crowds. Most people aren't stupid and have some courtesy. Indoors or in a seated event, I can see how that may be an issue. Totally different scenerios.
[/quote]

You know, I thought of that as I was there Sunday. Saw quite a few guys with cigars (and I'm sure more cigarette smokers) and not once did I get a whiff of one. And yes, that place was PACKED...

[Thrillhouse]

[quote name='Mulligan26' timestamp='1351088033' post='5838505']
I always throw my butts in the cart, then in the trash before I turn the cart in or if I'm walking I keep an empty pack in my bag and put them in there then pitch the old pack after the round.

I had a smoke nazi accost me for smoking once at a driving range, she was extremely rude about it. She said " golf is a game for athletes blah blah". Now keep in mind she was in her mid 40's, looked like shamu stuffed in a t shirt and JEANS, and probably couldn't walk an 18 hole round if she had a gun to her head. So I turn to her, chuckle and say "ma'am we're outside, I'll do as I please" *pull out my driver* "and when you can hit a ball like this" *i rip a monster drive* "then you can accost me for smoking, until then you can leave if you don't like it"...


Yep passive brag post, come at me bros
[/quote]

And then you tried yelling PPPOOOOWWWWW!!! But you started coughing and sputtering halfway through.


(sorry, couldn't help myself! )

[imakaveli]

[quote name='hogans71' timestamp='1351093416' post='5838999']
[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1351092912' post='5838945']
[quote name='imakaveli' timestamp='1351006286' post='5833293']
[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1351005547' post='5833219']
[quote name='imakaveli' timestamp='1351005284' post='5833179']
Can the gallery smoke in the US?
[/quote]

Depends on the course. Places like Torrey Pines and maybe Bethpage no because they are public courses in public parks run by the State/City.

A private course may or may not allow smoking, or only allow them in designated areas (which is the most common in general). In my opinion it's wise to provide smoking sections, because people actually use them. If you prohibit smoking, some people are going to smoke anyways wherever they want. Or so I've noticed.

But I don't think there is an official umbrella policy.
[/quote]

So in the PGA Tour events is up to the course?
[/quote]

FWIW - There was always smoking allowed at Cog Hill ( in the past) and at the Ryder Cup this year. Considering how packed the Ryder Cup was, I don't recall ever really noticing it. I did see a bunch of guys with cigars and stuff, but for the most part they are respectful and just back out of the heavy crowds. Most people aren't stupid and have some courtesy. Indoors or in a seated event, I can see how that may be an issue. Totally different scenerios.
[/quote]

You know, I thought of that as I was there Sunday. Saw quite a few guys with cigars (and I'm sure more cigarette smokers) and not once did I get a whiff of one. And yes, that place was PACKED...
[/quote]

Guess the number of cigarettes smoked increased reaching the end of that Sunday

[Shrapnac]

I'm not a fan of any kind of litter on a course but I'd much rather have a cigarette butt I can move out of the way than have to putt through someone's lung biscuit.

TheDarkOne's posts come across as a 12 year old who's fresh out of a D.A.R.E. brainwashing.

The whole "smoking calms your nerves" thing is psychological anyway. Physiologically nicotine is a blood thinner and a stimulant, more akin to coffee. Phil Mickelson used to look at his watch to maintain focus, do we ban watches next?

I'm sure Spencer Levin, a mid-20s kid from an upper class upbringing knows the dangers of smoking but he's an adult and it's a choice he's allowed to make.

[Mulligan26]

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1351094412' post='5839123']
[quote name='Mulligan26' timestamp='1351088033' post='5838505']
I always throw my butts in the cart, then in the trash before I turn the cart in or if I'm walking I keep an empty pack in my bag and put them in there then pitch the old pack after the round.

I had a smoke nazi accost me for smoking once at a driving range, she was extremely rude about it. She said " golf is a game for athletes blah blah". Now keep in mind she was in her mid 40's, looked like shamu stuffed in a t shirt and JEANS, and probably couldn't walk an 18 hole round if she had a gun to her head. So I turn to her, chuckle and say "ma'am we're outside, I'll do as I please" *pull out my driver* "and when you can hit a ball like this" *i rip a monster drive* "then you can accost me for smoking, until then you can leave if you don't like it"...


Yep passive brag post, come at me bros
[/quote]

And then you tried yelling PPPOOOOWWWWW!!! But you started coughing and sputtering halfway through.


(sorry, couldn't help myself! )
[/quote]

Nah I left the hammer x at home...

[Vindog]

[quote name='imakaveli' timestamp='1351094461' post='5839135']Guess the number of cigarettes smoked increased reaching the end of that Sunday
[/quote]

That's rough lol

[sefus12]

[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1351058294' post='5837701']
Sadly, when we see people wrap tobacco in the American Flag and defend it as a choice issue more times than not it's just an addict rationalizing their own behavior.There is a world of difference between people making a choice, and people being addicted to a drug. We have laws against people attempting suicide, but we allow cigarette smoking, the irony of course is that both are one in the same. I can't think of any other product that when used as intended, will unquestionably kill the user without a single benefit. Tobacco is a sinister product specifically designed to addict anyone who uses it immediately and will see their finances, physical health, and personal hygiene degrade rapidly.
I sincerely hope that anyone reading this who is a tobacco addict makes a legitimate effort to stop. There's tons of resources on line, I'm sure there are support groups in almost every region now, there's no excuse not to. When you see PGA tour players, guys who have won the lottery of cool in life, falling prey to this it just goes to show that it can happen to anyone.
It would be great if one of the non smoking associations reached out to Levine and helped him quit. It would set a great example for a lot of people that it can be done.
[/quote]

I'm sure part of your response is at least directed at me, so I'll respond. First off, no, I'm not a tobacco user at all (unless you count the once-every-six-months cigar) and I'm not trying to rationalize my lifestyle. And secondly, no one forces you to start smoking. The warnings about tobacco use are posted all over a pack of cigarettes/can of dip/etc. I do hate that it kills a lot of people and I understand that it's addictive to some (my dad quit cold turkey after being a 20 year smoker so I certainly don't think quitting can't happen), but I also believe that if people are informed and warned of the risks and still decide to use tobacco products, then they are responsible for the consequences.

I can understand why you are against tobacco use, but my issue is that if you start by outlawing tobacco, what's next? Will alcohol become illegal? What about caffeine? Foods that are bad for you? R-rated movies? Cars that have more than 120 hp? My point is that people need to take responsibility for themselves and not rely on others/the government to do so after they make their choices and things go bad (again, assuming they were informed of the risks, which tobacco users are).

[johnnypro]

[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1351086272' post='5838375']
[quote name='johnnypro' timestamp='1351085819' post='5838339']Well said. This guy has to get off the soap box. Why do people want to tell everyone else how to live? I was a guest at Winged Foot in August and the member told me smoking was fine as long as I took care of the butts. I've smoked at other private clubs. I smoke at Bethpage. I'm outdoors.....leave me the f++k alone!
[/quote]

Just for my information, because I was only speculating earlier...but is smoking prohibited at Bethpage? I assumed so as it is a State Park.

But you bring up a good point in that often times, the smokers don't make thing any easier on themselves. Butts everywhere, smoking where they are not supposed to etc... Even as a smoker I hated seeing butts everywhere, or right next to a green.

Some time ago we had an Independent Gov (A. King) who proposed a deposit on cig butts, much like the deposit on bottles and cans, in an effort to keep the butts off of the street. Never came to pass. How would you like to work in [i]that[/i] redemption center...
[/quote]

There is no smoking ban at Bethpage and I fully intend to have a Marlboro Light on the first tee tomorrow morning.

[south_side_lefty]

[quote name='ej002' timestamp='1351092594' post='5838915']
[quote name='hogans71' timestamp='1351047455' post='5837199']
[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1351046600' post='5837127']
[quote name='hogans71' timestamp='1351046189' post='5837101']
How in God's name is the PGA Tour irresponsible? Honestly, is no one able to make up their own mind?
[/quote]

I know I can't, I'm glued to the "what Nike clubs will rory play" thread so I can rush out and get the same gear he has the minute the deal is finalized.

Oh, and now that I've seen the Palmer hogan picture I'm going to start smoking too, mostly on golf courses, and in cosmerica park and ford field, maybe the big house too, I dunno, I'll let you guys know when I get to Michigan.
[/quote]

If you make it downtown Chicago I know of a couple bars that openly flaunt their allowance of smoking to take place...
[/quote]

Downtown too? I thought it was just a southside thing. It must be on of those dark transient places under the EL...
[/quote]

Yeah, those southsiders are pretty bad, huh?

Just like those left handed golfers.

Oh, wait...

[ej002]

[quote name='south_side_lefty' timestamp='1351100443' post='5839693']
Yeah, those southsiders are pretty bad, huh?

Just like those left handed golfers.

Oh, wait...
[/quote]

Oh wait for sure....

[TheDarkOne]

[quote name='sefus12' timestamp='1351100098' post='5839659']
I'm sure part of your response is at least directed at me, so I'll respond. First off, no, I'm not a tobacco user at all (unless you count the once-every-six-months cigar) and I'm not trying to rationalize my lifestyle. And secondly, no one forces you to start smoking. The warnings about tobacco use are posted all over a pack of cigarettes/can of dip/etc. I do hate that it kills a lot of people and I understand that it's addictive to some (my dad quit cold turkey after being a 20 year smoker so I certainly don't think quitting can't happen), but I also believe that if people are informed and warned of the risks and still decide to use tobacco products, then they are responsible for the consequences.

I can understand why you are against tobacco use, but my issue is that if you start by outlawing tobacco, what's next? Will alcohol become illegal? What about caffeine? Foods that are bad for you? R-rated movies? Cars that have more than 120 hp? My point is that people need to take responsibility for themselves and not rely on others/the government to do so after they make their choices and things go bad (again, assuming they were informed of the risks, which tobacco users are).
[/quote]

The problem with this is that it assumes that most people wait to make a choice on smoking until they are of age. This assumption exists in a world that common sense doesn't. Most people I have worked around, will get to this in a second, started in either high school or earlier. They are full blown addicts by the time they turn 18. Would say a 14-15 year old is capable of making an informed choice about smoking? And I know, I know. It's up to the parents blah blah. The problem most times is the kids are stealing them from their parents of their friends parents who are smokers also. And as any of us know, when you are a kid your parents can never have you on 100% lock down.

My experience, as I have stated here many times, was spending two years working next to an Oncologist. The story I have shared before was of a man who was referred by his dentist, who first lost his jaw, then his voice box, and eventually died from complications related to smoking. His wife and two young daughters were regulars at the clinic for the time he was with us before hospice, and I can tell you, it changes your thinking about smoking a great deal when you are there at the end. he was one of hundreds of people I met who had complications from smoking, sadly almost half the time it was fatal. I'm sure a lot of you won't believe me, but a lot of patients kept smoking even after being diagnosed with cancer.

At this time in my life I was a young guy and spent most of my time just listening to them and the stories and thoughts they had. Not a single smoker I ever met after gettign diagnosed with cancer ever talked about it being their right, or something they did as an act of personal freedom. Almost everyone of them however said they wished someone at some point would have cared enough to badger them to quit. ALL OF THEM wanted more time here with their families and people they loved. Smoking took that from them. It takes parents away from their children, it shortens peoples lives, and it is a blight on our society.

When i see a PGA tour player smoking, I think of all the people I saw die from it, and wonder to myself why would someone with so much going for them do something so stupid. It's sad, but at the same time it's an addiction. I wish i could do more to help.

I'm done posting in this thread, hate me all you want. I'm the bad guy who wants to take away freedoms blah blah blah. The truth is, I want to see people live longer healthier lives and not see them end up suffering through addiction and meeting a terrible death. That really makes me an awful person eh?

if there is anyone out there reading this who is genuinely interested in quitting please try. In fact, if you hate me use it as motivation. The sooner you quit the longer you will have to disagree with me here and tell me I am full of it

[goldenwave77]

[quote name='sefus12' timestamp='1351100098' post='5839659']
[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1351058294' post='5837701']
Sadly, when we see people wrap tobacco in the American Flag and defend it as a choice issue more times than not it's just an addict rationalizing their own behavior.There is a world of difference between people making a choice, and people being addicted to a drug. We have laws against people attempting suicide, but we allow cigarette smoking, the irony of course is that both are one in the same. I can't think of any other product that when used as intended, will unquestionably kill the user without a single benefit. Tobacco is a sinister product specifically designed to addict anyone who uses it immediately and will see their finances, physical health, and personal hygiene degrade rapidly.
I sincerely hope that anyone reading this who is a tobacco addict makes a legitimate effort to stop. There's tons of resources on line, I'm sure there are support groups in almost every region now, there's no excuse not to. When you see PGA tour players, guys who have won the lottery of cool in life, falling prey to this it just goes to show that it can happen to anyone.
It would be great if one of the non smoking associations reached out to Levine and helped him quit. It would set a great example for a lot of people that it can be done.
[/quote]

I'm sure part of your response is at least directed at me, so I'll respond. First off, no, I'm not a tobacco user at all (unless you count the once-every-six-months cigar) and I'm not trying to rationalize my lifestyle. And secondly, no one forces you to start smoking. The warnings about tobacco use are posted all over a pack of cigarettes/can of dip/etc. I do hate that it kills a lot of people and I understand that it's addictive to some (my dad quit cold turkey after being a 20 year smoker so I certainly don't think quitting can't happen), but I also believe that if people are informed and warned of the risks and still decide to use tobacco products, then they are responsible for the consequences.

I can understand why you are against tobacco use, but my issue is that if you start by outlawing tobacco, what's next? Will alcohol become illegal? What about caffeine? Foods that are bad for you? R-rated movies? Cars that have more than 120 hp? My point is that people need to take responsibility for themselves and not rely on others/the government to do so after they make their choices and things go bad (again, assuming they were informed of the risks, which tobacco users are).
[/quote]

Amen to Sefus. I'm 52, first smoked when I was 8--at the schoolyard where I learned all the cool stuff---how to spit, swear, etc. from the teenagers there. Actually thought it was pretty dumb so after trying a few, STOPPED without a problem. For about 2 weeks before basketball season in the 7th grade, smoked again until I saw what it did to my wind...again, stopped.

Did not smoke again until Harvard Law, when I enjoyed bumming about 5 cigs/day off of my best friend. Enjoyed it, because yes, a nicotine buzz can be pleasurable and it was really nice on top of the 6 cups/coffee a day that we drank like rocket fuel. Had no problem NOT smoking during the summers when I worked in a 63 story building where getting up/down the elevators was a pain. Fast forward to my mid-30's...discovered that a good cigar can be really nice after a meal on a summer day....back in the mid-80's decent cigars could still be had without bankrupting yourself, and before the self-imposed morality police-niks made going after smokers the latest political bullying campaign.

Have a friend who manages to bring in a few authentic Habanas to me when he comes in from Europe...you know what, a real Habana (Havana) cigar is one of few luxury goods around that is really worth the premium price it commands. Like authentic French champagne, it has been a standard of quality and consistency for hundreds of years. To me, give me some cold beers in an ice-bucket, the smell of a good steak on a grill, freshly opened clams on the half shell, freshly cut grass--maybe on the golf course that day, and a decent cee-gar after dinner, and the fresh air of an outdoor cookout, and all is right with the world...and it would be, unless some officious intermeddler, like yourself comes along to "save" people from themselves....because you know, other people are their own MORAL AGENTS...that means they have the ability, and the right, within limits, to do things that you may NOT LIKE OR AGREE WITH....but you know what, I wouldn't want to live in a world where people like you have the ability to bully people around...morality-wise.

Once upon a time, America was the home of the free and the brave...and the spirit that you exhibit, believe you me, is not the spirit that settled or built this country. No, yours is the spirit of the Puritan theocrat who wants to dictate to others what they should be doing....As I think John Updike said " A Puritan is someone who cannot stand the idea that someone....somewhere...somehow...may be having fun..." Some smokers enjoy their smoking, and you know what, even if they don't no one appointed YOU (and your organization) to be their perpetual big brother.

For the record, I don't smoke much...anymore...but I hope this country hasn't gotten to the state where a smoker cannot enjoy himself a little bit in the great outdoors.

[Vindog]

Ahh the martyrdom.

well played, sir

[jons1]

[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1351111198' post='5840575']
[quote name='sefus12' timestamp='1351100098' post='5839659']
I'm sure part of your response is at least directed at me, so I'll respond. First off, no, I'm not a tobacco user at all (unless you count the once-every-six-months cigar) and I'm not trying to rationalize my lifestyle. And secondly, no one forces you to start smoking. The warnings about tobacco use are posted all over a pack of cigarettes/can of dip/etc. I do hate that it kills a lot of people and I understand that it's addictive to some (my dad quit cold turkey after being a 20 year smoker so I certainly don't think quitting can't happen), but I also believe that if people are informed and warned of the risks and still decide to use tobacco products, then they are responsible for the consequences.

I can understand why you are against tobacco use, but my issue is that if you start by outlawing tobacco, what's next? Will alcohol become illegal? What about caffeine? Foods that are bad for you? R-rated movies? Cars that have more than 120 hp? My point is that people need to take responsibility for themselves and not rely on others/the government to do so after they make their choices and things go bad (again, assuming they were informed of the risks, which tobacco users are).
[/quote]

The problem with this is that it assumes that most people wait to make a choice on smoking until they are of age. This assumption exists in a world that common sense doesn't. Most people I have worked around, will get to this in a second, started in either high school or earlier. They are full blown addicts by the time they turn 18. Would say a 14-15 year old is capable of making an informed choice about smoking? And I know, I know. It's up to the parents blah blah. The problem most times is the kids are stealing them from their parents of their friends parents who are smokers also. And as any of us know, when you are a kid your parents can never have you on 100% lock down.

My experience, as I have stated here many times, was spending two years working next to an Oncologist. The story I have shared before was of a man who was referred by his dentist, who first lost his jaw, then his voice box, and eventually died from complications related to smoking. His wife and two young daughters were regulars at the clinic for the time he was with us before hospice, and I can tell you, it changes your thinking about smoking a great deal when you are there at the end. he was one of hundreds of people I met who had complications from smoking, sadly almost half the time it was fatal. I'm sure a lot of you won't believe me, but a lot of patients kept smoking even after being diagnosed with cancer.

At this time in my life I was a young guy and spent most of my time just listening to them and the stories and thoughts they had. Not a single smoker I ever met after gettign diagnosed with cancer ever talked about it being their right, or something they did as an act of personal freedom. Almost everyone of them however said they wished someone at some point would have cared enough to badger them to quit. ALL OF THEM wanted more time here with their families and people they loved. Smoking took that from them. It takes parents away from their children, it shortens peoples lives, and it is a blight on our society.

When i see a PGA tour player smoking, I think of all the people I saw die from it, and wonder to myself why would someone with so much going for them do something so stupid. It's sad, but at the same time it's an addiction. I wish i could do more to help.

I'm done posting in this thread, hate me all you want. I'm the bad guy who wants to take away freedoms blah blah blah. The truth is, I want to see people live longer healthier lives and not see them end up suffering through addiction and meeting a terrible death. That really makes me an awful person eh?

if there is anyone out there reading this who is genuinely interested in quitting please try. In fact, if you hate me use it as motivation. The sooner you quit the longer you will have to disagree with me here and tell me I am full of it
[/quote]

Well, at least there are a few in this thread with common sense. Thanks for sharing, and I agree 100%.

[hogans71]

[quote name='golfpros1' timestamp='1351119730' post='5841247']
[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1351111198' post='5840575']
[quote name='sefus12' timestamp='1351100098' post='5839659']
I'm sure part of your response is at least directed at me, so I'll respond. First off, no, I'm not a tobacco user at all (unless you count the once-every-six-months cigar) and I'm not trying to rationalize my lifestyle. And secondly, no one forces you to start smoking. The warnings about tobacco use are posted all over a pack of cigarettes/can of dip/etc. I do hate that it kills a lot of people and I understand that it's addictive to some (my dad quit cold turkey after being a 20 year smoker so I certainly don't think quitting can't happen), but I also believe that if people are informed and warned of the risks and still decide to use tobacco products, then they are responsible for the consequences.

I can understand why you are against tobacco use, but my issue is that if you start by outlawing tobacco, what's next? Will alcohol become illegal? What about caffeine? Foods that are bad for you? R-rated movies? Cars that have more than 120 hp? My point is that people need to take responsibility for themselves and not rely on others/the government to do so after they make their choices and things go bad (again, assuming they were informed of the risks, which tobacco users are).
[/quote]

The problem with this is that it assumes that most people wait to make a choice on smoking until they are of age. This assumption exists in a world that common sense doesn't. Most people I have worked around, will get to this in a second, started in either high school or earlier. They are full blown addicts by the time they turn 18. Would say a 14-15 year old is capable of making an informed choice about smoking? And I know, I know. It's up to the parents blah blah. The problem most times is the kids are stealing them from their parents of their friends parents who are smokers also. And as any of us know, when you are a kid your parents can never have you on 100% lock down.

My experience, as I have stated here many times, was spending two years working next to an Oncologist. The story I have shared before was of a man who was referred by his dentist, who first lost his jaw, then his voice box, and eventually died from complications related to smoking. His wife and two young daughters were regulars at the clinic for the time he was with us before hospice, and I can tell you, it changes your thinking about smoking a great deal when you are there at the end. he was one of hundreds of people I met who had complications from smoking, sadly almost half the time it was fatal. I'm sure a lot of you won't believe me, but a lot of patients kept smoking even after being diagnosed with cancer.

At this time in my life I was a young guy and spent most of my time just listening to them and the stories and thoughts they had. Not a single smoker I ever met after gettign diagnosed with cancer ever talked about it being their right, or something they did as an act of personal freedom. Almost everyone of them however said they wished someone at some point would have cared enough to badger them to quit. ALL OF THEM wanted more time here with their families and people they loved. Smoking took that from them. It takes parents away from their children, it shortens peoples lives, and it is a blight on our society.

When i see a PGA tour player smoking, I think of all the people I saw die from it, and wonder to myself why would someone with so much going for them do something so stupid. It's sad, but at the same time it's an addiction. I wish i could do more to help.

I'm done posting in this thread, hate me all you want. I'm the bad guy who wants to take away freedoms blah blah blah. The truth is, I want to see people live longer healthier lives and not see them end up suffering through addiction and meeting a terrible death. That really makes me an awful person eh?

if there is anyone out there reading this who is genuinely interested in quitting please try. In fact, if you hate me use it as motivation. The sooner you quit the longer you will have to disagree with me here and tell me I am full of it
[/quote]

Well, at least there are a few in this thread with common sense. Thanks for sharing, and I agree 100%.
[/quote]

That's sweet- thanks for sharing...

[jons1]

[quote name='hogans71' timestamp='1351119930' post='5841257']
[quote name='golfpros1' timestamp='1351119730' post='5841247']
[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1351111198' post='5840575']
[quote name='sefus12' timestamp='1351100098' post='5839659']
I'm sure part of your response is at least directed at me, so I'll respond. First off, no, I'm not a tobacco user at all (unless you count the once-every-six-months cigar) and I'm not trying to rationalize my lifestyle. And secondly, no one forces you to start smoking. The warnings about tobacco use are posted all over a pack of cigarettes/can of dip/etc. I do hate that it kills a lot of people and I understand that it's addictive to some (my dad quit cold turkey after being a 20 year smoker so I certainly don't think quitting can't happen), but I also believe that if people are informed and warned of the risks and still decide to use tobacco products, then they are responsible for the consequences.

I can understand why you are against tobacco use, but my issue is that if you start by outlawing tobacco, what's next? Will alcohol become illegal? What about caffeine? Foods that are bad for you? R-rated movies? Cars that have more than 120 hp? My point is that people need to take responsibility for themselves and not rely on others/the government to do so after they make their choices and things go bad (again, assuming they were informed of the risks, which tobacco users are).
[/quote]

The problem with this is that it assumes that most people wait to make a choice on smoking until they are of age. This assumption exists in a world that common sense doesn't. Most people I have worked around, will get to this in a second, started in either high school or earlier. They are full blown addicts by the time they turn 18. Would say a 14-15 year old is capable of making an informed choice about smoking? And I know, I know. It's up to the parents blah blah. The problem most times is the kids are stealing them from their parents of their friends parents who are smokers also. And as any of us know, when you are a kid your parents can never have you on 100% lock down.

My experience, as I have stated here many times, was spending two years working next to an Oncologist. The story I have shared before was of a man who was referred by his dentist, who first lost his jaw, then his voice box, and eventually died from complications related to smoking. His wife and two young daughters were regulars at the clinic for the time he was with us before hospice, and I can tell you, it changes your thinking about smoking a great deal when you are there at the end. he was one of hundreds of people I met who had complications from smoking, sadly almost half the time it was fatal. I'm sure a lot of you won't believe me, but a lot of patients kept smoking even after being diagnosed with cancer.

At this time in my life I was a young guy and spent most of my time just listening to them and the stories and thoughts they had. Not a single smoker I ever met after gettign diagnosed with cancer ever talked about it being their right, or something they did as an act of personal freedom. Almost everyone of them however said they wished someone at some point would have cared enough to badger them to quit. ALL OF THEM wanted more time here with their families and people they loved. Smoking took that from them. It takes parents away from their children, it shortens peoples lives, and it is a blight on our society.

When i see a PGA tour player smoking, I think of all the people I saw die from it, and wonder to myself why would someone with so much going for them do something so stupid. It's sad, but at the same time it's an addiction. I wish i could do more to help.

I'm done posting in this thread, hate me all you want. I'm the bad guy who wants to take away freedoms blah blah blah. The truth is, I want to see people live longer healthier lives and not see them end up suffering through addiction and meeting a terrible death. That really makes me an awful person eh?

if there is anyone out there reading this who is genuinely interested in quitting please try. In fact, if you hate me use it as motivation. The sooner you quit the longer you will have to disagree with me here and tell me I am full of it
[/quote]

Well, at least there are a few in this thread with common sense. Thanks for sharing, and I agree 100%.
[/quote]

That's sweet- thanks for sharing...
[/quote]


point illustrated

[hogans71]

[quote name='golfpros1' timestamp='1351120496' post='5841285']
[quote name='hogans71' timestamp='1351119930' post='5841257']
[quote name='golfpros1' timestamp='1351119730' post='5841247']
[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1351111198' post='5840575']
[quote name='sefus12' timestamp='1351100098' post='5839659']
I'm sure part of your response is at least directed at me, so I'll respond. First off, no, I'm not a tobacco user at all (unless you count the once-every-six-months cigar) and I'm not trying to rationalize my lifestyle. And secondly, no one forces you to start smoking. The warnings about tobacco use are posted all over a pack of cigarettes/can of dip/etc. I do hate that it kills a lot of people and I understand that it's addictive to some (my dad quit cold turkey after being a 20 year smoker so I certainly don't think quitting can't happen), but I also believe that if people are informed and warned of the risks and still decide to use tobacco products, then they are responsible for the consequences.

I can understand why you are against tobacco use, but my issue is that if you start by outlawing tobacco, what's next? Will alcohol become illegal? What about caffeine? Foods that are bad for you? R-rated movies? Cars that have more than 120 hp? My point is that people need to take responsibility for themselves and not rely on others/the government to do so after they make their choices and things go bad (again, assuming they were informed of the risks, which tobacco users are).
[/quote]

The problem with this is that it assumes that most people wait to make a choice on smoking until they are of age. This assumption exists in a world that common sense doesn't. Most people I have worked around, will get to this in a second, started in either high school or earlier. They are full blown addicts by the time they turn 18. Would say a 14-15 year old is capable of making an informed choice about smoking? And I know, I know. It's up to the parents blah blah. The problem most times is the kids are stealing them from their parents of their friends parents who are smokers also. And as any of us know, when you are a kid your parents can never have you on 100% lock down.

My experience, as I have stated here many times, was spending two years working next to an Oncologist. The story I have shared before was of a man who was referred by his dentist, who first lost his jaw, then his voice box, and eventually died from complications related to smoking. His wife and two young daughters were regulars at the clinic for the time he was with us before hospice, and I can tell you, it changes your thinking about smoking a great deal when you are there at the end. he was one of hundreds of people I met who had complications from smoking, sadly almost half the time it was fatal. I'm sure a lot of you won't believe me, but a lot of patients kept smoking even after being diagnosed with cancer.

At this time in my life I was a young guy and spent most of my time just listening to them and the stories and thoughts they had. Not a single smoker I ever met after gettign diagnosed with cancer ever talked about it being their right, or something they did as an act of personal freedom. Almost everyone of them however said they wished someone at some point would have cared enough to badger them to quit. ALL OF THEM wanted more time here with their families and people they loved. Smoking took that from them. It takes parents away from their children, it shortens peoples lives, and it is a blight on our society.

When i see a PGA tour player smoking, I think of all the people I saw die from it, and wonder to myself why would someone with so much going for them do something so stupid. It's sad, but at the same time it's an addiction. I wish i could do more to help.

I'm done posting in this thread, hate me all you want. I'm the bad guy who wants to take away freedoms blah blah blah. The truth is, I want to see people live longer healthier lives and not see them end up suffering through addiction and meeting a terrible death. That really makes me an awful person eh?

if there is anyone out there reading this who is genuinely interested in quitting please try. In fact, if you hate me use it as motivation. The sooner you quit the longer you will have to disagree with me here and tell me I am full of it
[/quote]

Well, at least there are a few in this thread with common sense. Thanks for sharing, and I agree 100%.
[/quote]

That's sweet- thanks for sharing...
[/quote]


point illustrated
[/quote]

I certainly hope you have a stool to get off that horse of yours...

[H.A. Kerr]

[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1351111198' post='5840575']
Almost everyone of them however said they wished someone at some point would have cared enough to badger them to quit.
[/quote]
[quote]
When i see a PGA tour player smoking, I think of all the people I saw die from it, ... I wish i could do more to help.
[/quote]

I see no other conscionable course of action for you other than vowing to spend less time posting in this thread and more time badgering PGA Tour pros.

[MatthewNGolf]

Personally, if someone tried to through a hissy fit about me smoking(Unless I'm getting smoke on them or around them), they're asking to get punched in the face.

I WILL smoke cigarettes. I WILL dip. I WILL chew. Why? Because what you think doesn't matter and it's legal. Will it ever be illegal? Uh. No. Sorry bud. TheDarkOne, since you like Fowler so much, did you know he dips as well? Yep. Guess you need a new favorite golfer.




I do not smoke around children. I don't smoke around animals. Golf wise, if I am sharing a cart with a non smoker, I don't smoke. I don't want what I enjoy doing to affect them negatively. I don't care how hard the anti smoking group tries, they won't win. Tobacco built America.

[kitsoasis]

TDO's reasoning is one-domensional and his argument is sloppy, a proper tobacco lobbyist would destroy him...

[dalehead]

[quote name='drpurpell' timestamp='1350854108' post='5824791']
DL3 smokes cigars. although have never seen him smoke whilst playing. Hogan used to chain smoke, he even endorsed Lucky Strikes. Palmer, Watson and Nicklaus all used to puff too. Dustin Johnston is one who I think chews tobacco from the current crop of players.
[/quote]

I think Hogan was a Chesterfield man.

[Titleist87]

All I ever learned about smoking came from Brooke Shields. See said kissing a smoker is like licking an ashtray.

In all seriousness, I don't smoke and think the habit is awful. I do have fond memories of my grandfather smoking his pipe - loved that smell. However, I don't impose my beliefs on those who do smoke. I don't have a problem with smokers on the golf course. Banning smoking inside a building makes complete sense, but outside, no.

Are PGA players (and other athletes) role models? To some. Charles Barkely said it best. "I am not a role model." If he was, every kid would be trying to copy his swing.

Parents need to take the initiative and educate and teach their kids.

[south_side_lefty]

[quote name='drstroud' timestamp='1351173951' post='5843623']

Are PGA players (and other athletes) role models? To some. Charles Barkely said it best. "I am not a role model." If he was, every kid would be trying to copy his swing.

[/quote]

Oh, no, not that !!!

[nbg352]

[quote name='soregongolfer' timestamp='1351069199' post='5837893']
[quote name='H.A. Kerr' timestamp='1351062779' post='5837797']
[quote name='golfpros1' timestamp='1351044130' post='5836953']
When smokers get nervous, they smoke, and it chills them out. [/quote]

No it does not.

It elevates their heart rate and increases their blood pressure. Mentally, it satisfies their craving, but physiologically, it causes anything but "chilling out" in their bodies. It's a performance "de-hancer", if you like, for a sport like golf.

Nicotine is a stimulant. Just like a broad class of drugs generally ending in "-ine" like caffeine, phentermine and , oh yeah, meth.

Not saying you can't dislike smoking, because it is indeed pretty gross, but get the facts right when mounting the soapbox. And be sure to lump Jim Furyk into your message for his pounding and promoting on national TV another concentrated stimulant as well.
[/quote]

Did you miss the part where he said he, himself, smoked? [u][b]I have to think a smoker would have a pretty good idea what smoking does to him.[/b][/u]
[/quote]
Apparently not, because Mr. Kerr is correct. You outa read up on it all. Might be a good education for you and sorgongolfer. Let's be clear. Nicotine is a depressant. Depressants do not enhance performance, they can actually detract from it. But the user of nicotine often may FEEL that smoking relaxes or improves attitude and performance, even though it is doing the opposite. And I guess I know what I'm talking about, if usage equates to knowledge. I quit smoking eight years ago, after 30 + years of smoking 2 or more large packs of cigarettes every day. Imagine, eight years and I still can't tolerate born again anti smokers who use a soapbox to keep convincing themselves to stay away from the crap. Believe me, the addiction never leaves, it just hides under the surface, waiting for you to make a mistake, take that first drag. But, that's my problem, not that smoker's over there on the corner being ostracised for his habit.

[Hateto3Putt]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1351177756' post='5843971']
Believe me, the addiction never leaves, it just hides under the surface, waiting for you to make a mistake, take that first drag.
[/quote]

I hear ya!

I quit a decade ago, but I know I'm a puff away from starting right back where I left off.

Just think, if they announced that a meteor was going to blow up the planet in a week, how long would the cigarette line be at the 7/11?

Smoking doesn't bother me in the least. Maybe it's because, I've been there, maybe it's just my nature, maybe it's because my sniffer is shot from 30 years of abuse.

I bunk with 3 hardcore smokers on my annual Myrtle beach blast. Since smokes are much cheaper in the south, the boys load up on the way home. My one buddy spent $575 for the (mostly inclusive) golf trip, and $700+ for cigarettes on the way home!

Last week we put together a birthday gift for my Wife's best friend. It was a "sin" basket, with casino chips, a jug of wine, a 50 Shades of Gray book, and 3 packs of her favorite smokes. I stopped at the grocery store to pick up the Virginia Slims.

3 packs of smokes were almost $21!

$6.81 a pack. (regional pricing ymmv)

WOW. How can kids even afford it these days?