dynamic gold trimming

[mdmgalactica]

http://www.truetemper.com/golf/2011_Product_Spec_Trimming_Guide_Online.pdf

say: Taper tip shafts should never be tip trimmed because they are designed to discrete lengths. Butt trim taper tip shafts to finished length.

 

so the standard tip trimming istruction below what refers only parallel tip shafts? also how many cpm increase for each 1/2 inch tip i cut?

[Nessism]

Taper tip shafts are literally that; the last 3/4" or so of the shaft is swedged down into a taper shape. If you trim the tip the taper shape is altered thus you shouldn't do this. Parallel tip shafts are designed to be tip trimmed to flex.

Regarding how much CPM per 1/2 of trim, this depends on the shafts frequency slope - not all sets are the same. Black Gold for example has about 5 cpm between shafts but I'm not sure about other shafts like Dynamic Gold.

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='mdmgalactica' timestamp='1358253572' post='6231427']
[url="http://www.truetemper.com/golf/2011_Product_Spec_Trimming_Guide_Online.pdf"]http://www.truetempe...uide_Online.pdf[/url]
say: Taper tip shafts should never be tip trimmed because they are designed to discrete lengths. Butt trim taper tip shafts to finished length.

so the standard tip trimming istruction below what refers only parallel tip shafts? also how many cpm increase for each 1/2 inch tip i cut?
[/quote]

Tip trimming Dynamic Gold Parallel tip shafts, gives 1 CPM for each 1/8 so 0.5 inch gives 4 CPM

Taper tip shafts is discrete length and butt trim only, but its possible to tip trim them if needed.
The problem is the taper down in the hosel, and depending on how wide it is, you will be able to tip trim like 3/8 before its getting to tight, but that vary. In cases where we must go stronger, the solution is to ream out the hosel to .370, and tip trim as needed.
Taper tip shafts respond just like parallel tip shafts with average 1 CPM stronger for each 1/8 tip trim

[mdmgalactica]

if i dont need to modify the flex i dont need to trim a taper tip ? while parallel tip triming is required and if i dont trim parallel i'll get more flexible shaft? shaft dont risk a breack close the tip triming a taper tip risking enjury? also hosel hole will be larger a brass srim adaptor is necessary?

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='mdmgalactica' timestamp='1358292285' post='6235255']
if i dont need to modify the flex i dont need to trim a taper tip ? while parallel tip triming is required and if i dont trim parallel i'll get more flexible shaft? shaft dont risk a breack close the tip triming a taper tip risking enjury? also hosel hole will be larger a brass srim adaptor is necessary?
[/quote]

Its NOT normal at all to tip trim taper tip shafts, its a "secret" among club makers i share with you.
If you need to go beyond what the hosel can take (a taper tip at 0.355 becomes a 0.370 a bit up on the tip), then we can ream out the hosel to take the shaft as it is now that the taper part is cut of. The remains is just a .370 tipped shaft, so there is no need for shims or anything. Hosel and shaft fits each other when we do this, and the shaft it self is in no risk for damage.

Parallel tip shafts is another ball game. All shafts starts from the same "blank" who is 41" long or like a #1 iron.To make them play to a set of shafts, we tip trim 0.5 inch from the tip for each club shorter, and when done, we adjust final play length by trimming the butt side.

For the example, if we did nothing to the tip on a parallel shaft, and you play 3-PW, then your setup will be like this (only in theory, its impossible real life)

Your 3 iron will be a #1 iron shaft, so that makes it soft stepped 2x
Your 4 iron will also be a #1 iron shaft, so that makes your #4 iron soft stepped 3x
Your 5 iron will also use the #1 iron shaft, so this club will be soft stepped 4x.....and the story goes on.

As you can see, we must tip trim each shaft to specs to get the desired flex, or it will be a mess where we go softer and softer, instead of stronger and stronger

Taper tip shafts is made special for each club head, and the tip section is pre-cut at the factory, and then they make the very end of the tip to a Taper shape. Parallel starts from 1 shaft, and we must cut them to flex as we like.

PS! A shaft like Project X with parallel is also pre-cut like a taper tip shaft, so they should not be tip trimmed any further, but just like another parallel tip, or a taper as ive learned you know, they can all be adjusted if needed.

[secretmidam]

To me as a a club builder, this is why Taper Tip is much easier to work with.

[ss4adam]

Great info from Howard_Jones. I'm about to use that info to trim my DG s300.

 

One thing that isn't clear to me though and i haven't seen it explicitly stated anywhere and it will effect my decision on how much i trim my TT irons: at what point does the taper tip and and the .370 PT start?

 

Howard stated: "If you need to go beyond what the hosel can take (a taper tip at 0.355 becomes a 0.370 a bit up on the tip)"

 

does "a bit up the tip" vary by model? Or is it at some constant point like one inch from the bottom of the tip? It sounds like 3/8 trim will still fit in most .355 hosels, but when are DG and PX taper tip shafts completely transformed into (usually stiffer) parallel shafts? Is it after a 1inch taper tip trim? (If i had better calipers and multiple shafts i could probably find out from experiments)

Edited June 12, 2022 by ss4adam
Grammar/formatting

[Ger21]

10 minutes ago, ss4adam said:

at what point does the taper tip and and the .370 PT start?

The taper is .0075" per inch, which gives you .370 at 1" from the tip.

[ss4adam]

1 hour ago, Ger21 said:

The taper is .0075" per inch, which gives you .370 at 1" from the tip.

I don't understand this math. Are you saying 355+.0075 = .370? Please expand? .

Or are you saying something else?

[Ger21]

You have to double the .0075, so .355+.0075+.0075 = .370

The diameter gets larger by 2x the taper amount.

[Howard_Jones]

5 hours ago, ss4adam said:

Great info from Howard_Jones. I'm about to use that info to trim my DG s300.

 

One thing that isn't clear to me though and i haven't seen it explicitly stated anywhere and it will effect my decision on how much i trim my TT irons: at what point does the taper tip and and the .370 PT start?

 

Howard stated: "If you need to go beyond what the hosel can take (a taper tip at 0.355 becomes a 0.370 a bit up on the tip)"

 

does "a bit up the tip" vary by model? Or is it at some constant point like one inch from the bottom of the tip? It sounds like 3/8 trim will still fit in most .355 hosels, but when are DG and PX taper tip shafts completely transformed into (usually stiffer) parallel shafts? Is it after a 1inch taper tip trim? (If i had better calipers and multiple shafts i could probably find out from experiments)

Ahhh, what i wrote here 9 years ago is NOT correct for Dynamic Gold, those have 2 tapers...(so its not 0.370 parallel above the first taper, this is quite special for the Dynamic Gold design)

The first taper is 6/8" long, and goes from 0.355 to 0.370. (officially - those ive measured starts as 0.346)
At 6/8" the taper changes to a weaker progression who goes from 0.370" to 0.386" right below the first step

How much stronger than standard is your target her? You need a caliper to measure shaft OD, it can vary a little, so for jobs like this, we can only make estimates using "paper specs".   

[Lip1337]

hey there

 

i am going to switch some shafts... x100s

 

few questions:

 

- how much of a difference makes one soft step in the .370 x100? 

how much "steps" is the S400 softer than the x100?

 

 

- my wedges are .355 heads

i dont have to tip trim the DG .355 taper shaft, right?

is the taper shaft for 9i/wedges the same saft? (different butt trimmed)

 

THANK YOU

[Stuart_G]

2 hours ago, Lip1337 said:

 how much of a difference makes one soft step in the .370 x100? 

 

It's very subjective and also dependent on your mechanics - but 1 soft step is generally considered only a very minor and subtle tweak to the stiffness feel.  Many am's wouldn't even notice the difference in a side-by-side comparison.

 

2 hours ago, Lip1337 said:

how much "steps" is the S400 softer than the x100?

 

It doesn't really work that way.  Stepping vs going down in flex are two ways to get a softer feel but they do it in very different ways that effect different parts of the shaft.   Going down in flex is changing the stiffness along the whole shaft.  While stepping generally only significantly effects the tip stiffness and leaves the butt and mid of the shaft as an x-stiff.   Now you might or might not be able to get a similar feel by stepping but there is no way for anyone else to predict if it will work for you or how many steps it will take.  It would take some experimentation.

 

Now, someone will most likely come around and throw you the old adage of "3 steps equals 1 flex" but IMO that's really a useless and completely unreliable over simplification.

 

2 hours ago, Lip1337 said:

i dont have to tip trim the DG .355 taper shaft, right?

is the taper shaft for 9i/wedges the same saft? (different butt trimmed)

 

 

Not only don't you need to, you should not tip trim unless you know what you are doing.  Any more than a 1/4" to 3/8" will not allow full insertion of the shaft into the hossel unless you bore out the hossel to .370.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 21 by Stuart_G

[Howard_Jones]

5 hours ago, Lip1337 said:

hey there

 

i am going to switch some shafts... x100s

 

few questions:

 

- how much of a difference makes one soft step in the .370 x100? 

how much "steps" is the S400 softer than the x100?

 

 

- my wedges are .355 heads

i dont have to tip trim the DG .355 taper shaft, right?

is the taper shaft for 9i/wedges the same saft? (different butt trimmed)

 

THANK YOU

Lets start with the basics...
We can not soft step one flex to make it become a nother, thats only possible on very few shaft models. For DG it might look like we can soft step a X100 4 times and make it to be like the S flex where step pattern looks identical at 4x, weight remains the same (0.370)...but we did NOT get a S300 by going SS4, since theyr profiles is NOT identical, not even when we move everyting 2 inches. When we soft step a descending wgt shaft we move BUTT CPM average 4 CPM and measured difference in the DG 130 line up, is about 26 CPM, so its like SS5 before butt CPM becomes the same, but now we got a different step pattern and tip lenght.

Constant wgt models moves more. since we change both tip length and wall thicknes
but when we soft step a constant wgt shaft, we also loose weight equal to about 7.5 to 8 grams at SS4, so even if ours X100 SS4 now "looks like" a S300/S400, it will have a weight of only 122 grams and will for sure play softer. (S to X is average 13 CPM in DG constant WGT tapers, an SS4 moved it about 24 CPM, making it 9 softer than target, and thats visible on the weight loss, where we can say 1 gram is 1 CPM)

So, we can hardly ever make X to become identical with is S brother shaft, so when we say SS3 on constant wgt, and SS4 on descending wgt is about 1 flex, is with a reference to butt CPM and the closest we can get, but NOT because its really a option, its only to illustrate where BUTT CPM will end up if we do it, so the player get a idea of what we are talking about (SS1 = 1/3 of  flex for constant wgt models), and its a rule of thump, and NOT exactly the difference for ALL models, since they vary.

We also often say 10 CPM is one flex, but thats a reference to the FCM system, where 7.0 is 10 CPM stronger than 6.0, while in the LARSX flex system, its most often a larger span form R to S and S to X than only 10 CPM, its often 13 to 26 as difference.

 

Taper tip shaft is really "No trip trim", but advanced club makers does tip trim them.
Since DG dont have a dedicated PW shaft (#9 is the shortest), its quite common to stiffen that shaft up by a tip trim of 3/8" who gives 3 CPM stronger, while a dedicated PW shaft should have been 5-6 CPM stronger. 3/8" is about the max we can tip trim a taper before we need a ream job to 0.370, and at the extreme we can tip trim most of them "2 shafts stronger" who on constant wgt becomes 1.25" tip trim, but that demands a ream job to 0.370 to get full insert.

Paralell tip shafts has most often a flex slope of right above 4 CPM, so 0.5 tip trim is "1 shaft stronger"! while for constant wgt, with a steeper flex slope due to variable wall thickness (thicker as we go shorter to keep the weight), we need 5/8" tip trim to make it a full shaft stronger like it is by nature.
 

So, we can NOT soft step a X100 to make it become "just like" S400, and we can not tip trim S400 to become like X100, but we can get butt CPM close...but that should never be target and its not a good idea.

 

 

Edited July 21 by Howard_Jones