Lift clean and place

[Noles]

How close to the original spot does the ball need to be replaced when playing lift clean and place? I'm watching the tape delayed coverage of the PGA Tour event and they are playing LCP. Just curious.

[rogolf]

[quote name='Noles' timestamp='1374447189' post='7508348']
How close to the original spot does the ball need to be replaced when playing lift clean and place? I'm watching the tape delayed coverage of the PGA Tour event and they are playing LCP. Just curious.
[/quote]

It depends on what is specified in the local Rule that is in place at the time - it's a Committee decision. Sometimes/places it's six inches, others that are common are 1 foot and 1 clublength.

[Augster]

On the PGA tour it is always a club length but each individual committee is allowed to set their own length.

[Vindog]

When I played league it was one club head.

And when we played in casual groups we use the same. Personally I don't think you really need any more than a clubhead in most circumstances.

[4Wedges]

I always mark my ball with a tee, clean it, and put it right back down where I picked it up.

Have to admit, never thought about moving it at all from it's original position. <shrug>

[jmkenn0]

Sometimes you get a plug and have to move it.

[Vindog]

[quote name='jmkenn0' timestamp='1374546298' post='7518758']
Sometimes you get a plug and have to move it.
[/quote]

This is true, but in that case you would probably get embedded ball relief anyways.

[Sawgrass]

Here is the specimen local rule from Appendix I, note the option for distance regarding replacement location. Presumably one could simply allow cleaning and require replacement on the original spot.


c. “Preferred Lies” and “Winter Rules”
Ground under repair is provided for in Rule 25 and occasional local abnormal conditions that might interfere with fair play and are not widespread should be defined as ground under repair.
However, adverse conditions, such as heavy snows, spring thaws, prolonged rains or extreme heat can make fairways unsatisfactory and sometimes prevent use of heavy mowing equipment. When such conditions are so general throughout a course that the Committee believes “preferred lies” or “winter rules” would promote fair play or help protect the course, the following Local Rule is recommended:
“A ball lying on a closely mown area through the green (or specify a more restricted area, e.g., at the 6th hole) may be lifted, without penalty, and cleaned. Before lifting the ball, the player must mark its position. Having lifted the ball, he must place it on a spot within (specify area, e.g., six inches, one club-length, etc.) of and not nearer the hole than where it originally lay, that is not in a hazard and not on a putting green.
A player may place his ball only once, and it is in play when it has been placed (Rule 20-4). If the ball fails to come to rest on the spot on which it is placed, Rule 20-3d applies. If the ball when placed comes to rest on the spot on which it is placed and it subsequently moves, there is no penalty and the ball must be played as it lies, unless the provisions of any other Rule apply.
If the player fails to mark the position of the ball before lifting it or moves the ball in any other manner, such as rolling it with a club, he incurs a penalty of one stroke.
Note: “Closely mown area” means any area of the course, including paths through the rough, cut to fairway height or less.
*PENALTY FOR BREACH OF LOCAL RULE:
Match play – Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes.
*If a player incurs the general penalty for a breach of this Local Rule, no additional penalty under the Local Rule is applied.”

[Newby]

[quote name='4Wedges' timestamp='1374540577' post='7517960']
I always mark my ball with a tee, clean it, and put it right back down where I picked it up.

Have to admit, never thought about moving it at all from it's original position. <shrug>
[/quote]

In that case you are using the very underutilised Local Rule

[b] Cleaning Ball[/b]

[color=#000000][size=3]Conditions, such as extreme wetness causing significant amounts of mud to adhere to the ball, may be such that permission to lift, clean and replace the ball would be appropriate. In these circumstances, the following Local Rule is recommended:[/size][/color]
[color=#003E7E][size=3]“(Specify area) a ball may be lifted, cleaned and [/size][/color][color=#ff0000][size=3][b]replaced[/b][/size][/color][color=#003E7E][size=3] without penalty.[/size][/color]
[color=#003E7E][size=3][b]Note:[/b] The position of the ball must be marked before it is lifted under this Local Rule – see Rule [url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-20/#20-1"]20-1[/url].[/size][/color]

[4Wedges]

[quote name='jmkenn0' timestamp='1374546298' post='7518758']
Sometimes you get a plug and have to move it.
[/quote]

If 25-2 applies, then I follow the rule and take my drop. However, even if we're playing lift/clean/replace, I only do it on closely mown areas...if I'm in the rough and there's mud on my ball...I play it as it lies and with the mud.

[QEight]

[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1374546666' post='7518796']
[quote name='jmkenn0' timestamp='1374546298' post='7518758']
Sometimes you get a plug and have to move it.
[/quote]

This is true, but in that case you would probably get embedded ball relief anyways.
[/quote]

Which one comes first then, dropping or replacing?

[HitEmTrue]

[quote name='QEight' timestamp='1374648492' post='7527792']
[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1374546666' post='7518796']
[quote name='jmkenn0' timestamp='1374546298' post='7518758']
Sometimes you get a plug and have to move it.
[/quote]

This is true, but in that case you would probably get embedded ball relief anyways.
[/quote]

Which one comes first then, dropping or replacing?
[/quote]

Relief from embedded ball is optional (as is lift/clean/replace), so the player should be able to choose.

[Newby]

[quote name='HitEmTrue' timestamp='1374651652' post='7527856']
[quote name='QEight' timestamp='1374648492' post='7527792']
[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1374546666' post='7518796']
[quote name='jmkenn0' timestamp='1374546298' post='7518758']
Sometimes you get a plug and have to move it.
[/quote]

This is true, but in that case you would probably get embedded ball relief anyways.
[/quote]

Which one comes first then, dropping or replacing?
[/quote]

Relief from embedded ball is optional (as is lift/clean/replace), so the player should be able to choose.
[/quote]

If you are in a situation where two or more relief options are available (whether compulsory or optional) you may always choose which option to take. You may then choose other relief options if they (still) apply.