Drinking water policy at a course. Not filling your bottle!

[djmohab2]

[quote name='wingedfoot97' timestamp='1375294266' post='7577428']
Off topic but back in the day the course I grew up at would put pink lemonade in the coolers sometimes during the summers. Why? I dont know but I liked it. Sorry to go weirdly off topic.
[/quote]

At least they diverted from the more traditional "tour yellow" to give you peace of mind that it was indeed lemonade.

I can't really fathom how this helps operations to have the ranger disburse rations to the course rather than a few trips during the day to fill up the coolers. I remember being stupid enough to play ASU's Karsten course in mid-August when it was 109 out and they had coolers with ice cold water on every other tee box. That combined with Nike's DRI-FIT technology actually made it a pretty easy day. Without the coolers, I would have had to put a keg of water on the back of the cart.

[thug the bunny]

Actually, the water bill is one of the most expensive aspects of most golf courses' overhead. And because of their exhorbitant use of water, many municipalities restrict the amount of water alloted to a course. So, depending on your course's water position, they are more or less being thrifty with a valuable commodity.

(Prediction: if society doesn't collapse via economic catastrophy, it eventuall will because of water wars.)

[KMeloney]

I think a bunch of concepts are being jumbled here.

It seems to me that folks think that this course doesn't provide water. I'm not seeing that at all. It appears that they DO provide water, both in coolers (at least on the front), and from the Ranger, and from the cart.

It appears to me that people think the course ought to provide free water. I think it's great that they do, but don't think they have to, anymore than they have to provide free tees, or sunscreen, or range balls. Why should they provide free water?

It seems that folks think it's bogus to have the Ranger rationing water by way of handing out cups. That is pretty lame -- BUT, you CAN buy water from the cart, and you apparently CAN bring water from home. But at the heart of that matter appears to be the notion that people are abusing the free-water-from-the-coolers availability. Folks appear to be ignoring that, and instead are focusing on the course not refilling the water quickly enough. Clearly, the new policy (whatever it may be, exactly) at this course is a result of people filling up bottles from the coolers instead of taking some cup-fulls and moving on.

If you were in the group right behind the guy who filled up two water bottles and killed the cooler doing it, you'd be annoyed at that guy, and not the course.

It takes money/resources to keep the water filled. Whereas they probably have it budgeted to keep the coolers filled and cups available to a point, it sounds like when enough people fill up bottles instead of taking a cup full, then it gets to be a problem for the course. Why should the course have to eat the additional costs if the water isn't being used the way they planned it to be used? It sounds like the cost of a round has been lowered and lowered. Would folks be happier if the round cost $10 more, and the water was flowing freely?

I think it's fair to say that most of us take advantage of water being free on a lot of courses. Otherwise, like making sure we have enough balls and a glove and sunscreen and whatnot, we would all stop at a convenience store on the way to the course and buy a couple of bottles of water and be sure that we had water. Just because we take advantage of it being free doesn't mean it should be/stay free.

I think the OP has a pretty good reason for having two bottles of water with him at all times on the course. I don't think that means the course has to provide it to him for free.

I think that all courses should provide water. I don't think they have to provide it for free. If they don't provide it at all, then they should let you bring your own water. If they don't let you bring your own water, they should state that policy clearly somewhere -- and must provide water.

If you're allowed to bring your own water, and you don't, then I don't think you should hold anyone else responsible for your lack of preparation.

It sounds like a real crappy situation, and one that I'd probably be annoyed about in the moment. But that's about it. It wouldn't mean that I'd be right to get angry about it.

[Shiram]

Sounds like the course looked at their labor costs to fill the water coolers and decided it was costing them too much.

The ranger probably didn't want to empty his cooler by filling up your 48 oz's of water bottles.

Seems kind of cheap but I doubt it is the cost of the water they are trying to control - it is probably the labor to fill up the coolers.

EDIT:

And lots of courses have no coolers. One track I play has one water fountain on the front and one on the back. I've been to others that have no water anywhere unless you want to fill up from the bathroom sink. When they have water it is great - when they don't you either bring or you buy. I don't think they are required to provide water.

[sheppy335]

In SWPA i haven't seen a water cooler to get drinks from in years. at least ten years so i carry my own, if it is super hot a 32oz Gatorade is enough to last me. If i play in cooler temps 16oz will last me no issue. Everyone is different with amount they drink, i do think it is weird they stopped cause of having to fill them.

[jlh1508]

[quote name='RJRJRJ' timestamp='1375235206' post='7572820']
Maybe im misunderstanding something here... I love when courses have lots of free water available, but to say that they legally have to provide it?? How do you figure? If they said you arent allowed to bring your own water, I could understand the litigious response, but it seems like people are simply mad that they arent providing it to you for free.

It just seems like the simple solution is to bring more water with you. Or you can fill it up in the bathroom sink or hose (gross, I know, but you do realize thats what theyre filling those coolers with, right?).

If this is a very nice course, I agree that copious amounts of water should be provided with your substantial green fee... but the fact is that most courses are barely staying in business these days, and the more man power that its takes to keep filling water coolers is just an extra expense that they probably cant afford.
[/quote]

This all day long

How is it the golf courses fault if someone goes out on a 100 degree day with not enough water and makes themselves sick? Maybe you shouldn't have been out playing golf


With that said the idea of taking away the big jugs of water and rationing water out by the cup seems like a really poor choice

[Greenie]

Let me clear a few things up. I never said that water wasn't available. I said that the coolers were removed and the ranger was riding around offering you drinking water from a cup. I had four cups. I was going to be a smart @ss and take my cups of water and refill one of my bottles but I didn't because it wasn't worth my time. He didn't say I couldn't carry my bottles either. He said people were using up all the waters in the coolers filling up their own bottles so when someone wanted a cup of water the coolers were empty. The solution was to ride around and make sure people had some water to drink. He did say they had better things to do than having someone keep running back and forth with the coolers. I don't really have an issue with not having water on the course. It would have been nice if it was posted somewhere though. I would have stopped at the turn or used a brick-motar bathroom on the course to refill. There are some courses I play that don't offer water and some that the coolers are always empty. I'll carry two bottles with me and replace them with two from my truck at the turn when I play those courses. I'll go back their and play again but next time I'll know to plan better with my water. I was curious if other places did the same. I really don't like the idea though. It's just another thing to slow down play like waiting on a foursome buying something from the beverage cart and now waiting on a foursome getting water from from the ranger.

[Derek666]

I've never seen free water on a course over here or the ice cream van with the hot girl in it i saw in another thread on a course, of course the temps over here are nothing like what you guys have to play in.

[Shiram]

[quote name='wingedfoot97' timestamp='1375294266' post='7577428']
Off topic but back in the day the course I grew up at would put pink lemonade in the coolers sometimes during the summers. Why? I dont know but I liked it. Sorry to go weirdly off topic.
[/quote]

That is awesome. Unless of course you don't like pink lemonade.

[wingedfoot97]

If anyone ever played Sea Island back in the early to mid 90's you may have been out there when they put it out!!

[jmck]

[quote name='RJRJRJ' timestamp='1375235206' post='7572820']
/snip

If this is a very nice course, I agree that copious amounts of water should be provided with your substantial green fee... [b]but the fact is that most courses are barely staying in business these days, and the more man power that its takes to keep filling water coolers is just an extra expense that they probably cant afford.[/b]
[/quote]

Do you really think it costs more money to have someone filling up 4 water coolers a few times a day than it costs to have someone driving around offering every single group little individual cups of water? That's an insane solution to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place. How anyone could defend this course and their positively bizarre policy is beyond me. If cost is an issue, water the fairways 10 seconds less each time you water them--that would more than make up for all the extra water the walkers and their big bad water bottles are consuming.

Sincerely,
A walker who lives in a hot climate and has apparently been drinking more than his fair share of water for years and years.


OP--Out the course! Seriously, either here or PM me. I'm in central VA and play up in MD several times a year. I'd hate to stumble into a place with that attitude towards drinking water.

[freddy1682]

First off, I apologize if this was mentioned earlier in the thread, but I did not read each post.

Before everyone assumes this is a money making scheme by the golf course, read the following article about a 15 year old kid who died after playing a junior tournament this golf course. [url="http://www.golfarizona.com/departments/features/virus-outbreak.htm"]http://www.golfarizona.com/departments/features/virus-outbreak.htm[/url]

I'm not defending this golf course by any means, but I do know that the practice of removing the water coolers on the golf course is becoming more and more prevalent due to cases like this. It doesn't take much at all to spread a virus by filling up your water bottle. If you have something, and you touch the water bottle to the cooler at all while filling it up, that virus could easily be spread to anyone else who fills up their water bottle, or even drinks from the cooler. If everyone would simply keep the water bottle from touching the cooler while filling it up, these things would be much less likely to happen.

Again, I'm not defending the golf course mentioned by the OP, but I can certainly understand where it may be coming from.

Just my 2 cents.

[QuigleyDU]

If this is a course with houses just use someones hose.

[RJRJRJ]

[quote name='jmck' timestamp='1375303431' post='7578356']
[quote name='RJRJRJ' timestamp='1375235206' post='7572820']
/snip

If this is a very nice course, I agree that copious amounts of water should be provided with your substantial green fee... [b]but the fact is that most courses are barely staying in business these days, and the more man power that its takes to keep filling water coolers is just an extra expense that they probably cant afford.[/b]
[/quote]

Do you really think it costs more money to have someone filling up 4 water coolers a few times a day than it costs to have someone driving around offering every single group little individual cups of water? That's an insane solution to a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place. How anyone could defend this course and their positively bizarre policy is beyond me. If cost is an issue, water the fairways 10 seconds less each time you water them--that would more than make up for all the extra water the walkers and their big bad water bottles are consuming.

[/quote]

Sure it costs them more money. It seems like they rolled the marshall and the maintenance guy into one person. The marshall drives around with a cooler on his cart and gives water to anybody who wants this while making his rounds. I'd bet that only a few holes per round actually stop him and ask for water, so he basically ends up doing his same job with one added task that doesnt take all that much time up.

[Shrapnac]

[quote name='wingedfoot97' timestamp='1375294266' post='7577428']
Off topic but back in the day the course I grew up at would put pink lemonade in the coolers sometimes during the summers. Why? I dont know but I liked it. Sorry to go weirdly off topic.
[/quote]

Well that course sounds simply faaaaaaaaaaaaabulous!

[nuthin but a hacker]

[quote name='freddy1682' timestamp='1375304308' post='7578424']
First off, I apologize if this was mentioned earlier in the thread, but I did not read each post.

Before everyone assumes this is a money making scheme by the golf course, read the following article about a 15 year old kid who died after playing a junior tournament this golf course. [url="http://www.golfarizona.com/departments/features/virus-outbreak.htm"]http://www.golfarizo...us-outbreak.htm[/url]

I'm not defending this golf course by any means, but I do know that the practice of removing the water coolers on the golf course is becoming more and more prevalent due to cases like this. It doesn't take much at all to spread a virus by filling up your water bottle. If you have something, and you touch the water bottle to the cooler at all while filling it up, that virus could easily be spread to anyone else who fills up their water bottle, or even drinks from the cooler. If everyone would simply keep the water bottle from touching the cooler while filling it up, these things would be much less likely to happen.

Again, I'm not defending the golf course mentioned by the OP, but I can certainly understand where it may be coming from.

Just my 2 cents.
[/quote]

Ugh...never thought about it that way! That's it for me. Never again will I drink water from one of those things.

[jmck]

[quote name='RJRJRJ' timestamp='1375305528' post='7578536']

Sure it costs them more money. It seems like they rolled the marshall and the maintenance guy into one person. The marshall drives around with a cooler on his cart and gives water to anybody who wants this while making his rounds. I'd bet that only a few holes per round actually stop him and ask for water, so he basically ends up doing his same job with one added task that doesnt take all that much time up.
[/quote]

I'l grant you it's possible you're right about that, though I doubt it, and he doesn't "give water to anybody who wants it," at least certainly not the satisfaction of the OP; a more accurate description would be "he offers small cups of water to those whom he drives past"........ But anyhow, if you'll forgive the pun, the course's [i]stated reason[/i] for their policy still does not hold water. They never said it was a cost issue. They never said it was a health safety issue. They said it was because people refilling their water bottles were running the water coolers dry. IMO, that's a bunch of baloney. It's the course's laziness that's running those coolers dry.

If they said, "look, someone died from contaminated water on a golf course and we can't take the chance," or, "sorry we just can't afford to pay someone to fill them up anymore," that I'd respect, or at least understand. But to say to a walker, sorry bud, there are no more water coolers because of you and your water bottle, and sorry I [i]won't [/i]fill that bottle up for you....well let's just say I wouldn't go back there if I was the OP. Really, you can go back and reread his post. It's got all the information you need about why the course is doing what they're doing. Nothing about cost, nothing about health safety. Just a bunch of BS.

[mandudebro]

Can't believe our 3rd world WRX members haven't chimed in to offer their sympathy on this matter. Must be busy swatting flies or wondering what an internet is or something.

[One_Putt_Blunder]

Re the kid who sadly died from contaminated water here in Phoenix. After that incident courses here are now required to clean and disinfect the water jugs each night and keep them in locked containers on the course. Many courses did away with water at first especially the low budget courses and munis. Being that it is Phoenix it didn't last too long before the coolers started coming back.

I carry an empty 32 oz Gatorade bottle with my each round and some mio water enhancer I easily fill it up and drink it all 2-3 times a round. If a course ever tried to tell me I couldn't do that I would never go back

[Chico]

Really!!! No water on a hot day? I see a lawsuit in the works when someone dies of HEAT STROKE!!!!!

[Thug Hunter]

[quote name='Chico' timestamp='1375340171' post='7581500']
Really!!! No water on a hot day? I see a lawsuit in the works when someone dies of HEAT STROKE!!!!!
[/quote]

Wow, it's amazing that someone finally brought that thought to this thread.

[Hot Rod 71]

[quote name='Chico' timestamp='1375340171' post='7581500']
Really!!! No water on a hot day? I see a lawsuit in the works when someone dies of HEAT STROKE!!!!!
[/quote]

While all comments are welcomed, please read the entire thread before you do so.

[KMeloney]

[quote name='jmck' timestamp='1375309067' post='7578958']
[quote name='RJRJRJ' timestamp='1375305528' post='7578536']
Sure it costs them more money. It seems like they rolled the marshall and the maintenance guy into one person. The marshall drives around with a cooler on his cart and gives water to anybody who wants this while making his rounds. I'd bet that only a few holes per round actually stop him and ask for water, so he basically ends up doing his same job with one added task that doesnt take all that much time up.
[/quote]

I'l grant you it's possible you're right about that, though I doubt it, and he doesn't "give water to anybody who wants it," at least certainly not the satisfaction of the OP; a more accurate description would be "he offers small cups of water to those whom he drives past"........ But anyhow, if you'll forgive the pun, the course's [i]stated reason[/i] for their policy still does not hold water. They never said it was a cost issue. They never said it was a health safety issue. They said it was because people refilling their water bottles were running the water coolers dry. IMO, that's a bunch of baloney. It's the course's laziness that's running those coolers dry.

If they said, "look, someone died from contaminated water on a golf course and we can't take the chance," or, "sorry we just can't afford to pay someone to fill them up anymore," that I'd respect, or at least understand. But to say to a walker, sorry bud, there are no more water coolers because of you and your water bottle, and sorry I [i]won't [/i]fill that bottle up for you....well let's just say I wouldn't go back there if I was the OP. Really, you can go back and reread his post. It's got all the information you need about why the course is doing what they're doing. Nothing about cost, nothing about health safety. Just a bunch of BS.
[/quote]

They have to provide free water AND spell things out for you, too? C'mon.

They don't owe you water, and they certainly don't owe you an explanation for why they do what they do.

[SurfDuffer]

Some would sue for no water......others would sue if they got sick after drinking water at a course.......damned if they do damned if they don't.

[prsgtrman]

pathetic. simply pathetic. as if we are in 3013 and there is a severe shortage. wth.

[richard t]

That is very, very, strange. Place I play the most has water every 4 holes. Always full. I don't drink it. Like someone else I wonder about how clean the jugs are. Drank from them once. Had to stop twice shortly after to... you know the rest. So, now I bring a cooler with water in the bottles. Just go by the lot as needed and fill up. They have a rule. No coolers on the course.

[jmck]

[quote name='KMeloney' timestamp='1375360091' post='7582218']
[quote name='jmck' timestamp='1375309067' post='7578958']
[quote name='RJRJRJ' timestamp='1375305528' post='7578536']
Sure it costs them more money. It seems like they rolled the marshall and the maintenance guy into one person. The marshall drives around with a cooler on his cart and gives water to anybody who wants this while making his rounds. I'd bet that only a few holes per round actually stop him and ask for water, so he basically ends up doing his same job with one added task that doesnt take all that much time up.
[/quote]

I'l grant you it's possible you're right about that, though I doubt it, and he doesn't "give water to anybody who wants it," at least certainly not the satisfaction of the OP; a more accurate description would be "he offers small cups of water to those whom he drives past"........ But anyhow, if you'll forgive the pun, the course's [i]stated reason[/i] for their policy still does not hold water. They never said it was a cost issue. They never said it was a health safety issue. They said it was because people refilling their water bottles were running the water coolers dry. IMO, that's a bunch of baloney. It's the course's laziness that's running those coolers dry.

If they said, "look, someone died from contaminated water on a golf course and we can't take the chance," or, "sorry we just can't afford to pay someone to fill them up anymore," that I'd respect, or at least understand. But to say to a walker, sorry bud, there are no more water coolers because of you and your water bottle, and sorry I [i]won't [/i]fill that bottle up for you....well let's just say I wouldn't go back there if I was the OP. Really, you can go back and reread his post. It's got all the information you need about why the course is doing what they're doing. Nothing about cost, nothing about health safety. Just a bunch of BS.
[/quote]

They have to provide free water AND spell things out for you, too? C'mon.

They don't owe you water, and they certainly don't owe you an explanation for why they do what they do.
[/quote]

Great attitude there. Sure hope you don't work in the customer service industry.

Like I said before, I can't believe anyone would defend such an asinine policy, especially when explained by such a rude employee.

What's next? Charging for paper score cards? A pro-rated deposit for a pencil, refunded based on how much lead you use?

[wingedfoot97]

You can bet when they start charging for paper score cards there will be some folks on here who will vehemently defend that too.

Hopefully this course changes their attitude but...

[golfpromt]

After 15 years as a PGA member, this is a topic that has been reviewed many times. I would rather steer away from the legality aspect and focus on the points brought up by Greenie as well as offer solutions. As well, my personal feelings regarding the availability aside. I will say that in 15 years in the industry, NEVER ONCE did I see a budgetary line item titled On Course Drinking Water. So any discussion made surrounding the budgetary costs associated with drinking water do not hold up in my opinion.

If you are still looking for the individual to seek out and discuss the policy with then look directly for the Head Golf Professional, Director of Golf or GM. Simply inquiring about the basis for the policy is an easy conversation to be had that could shed much more light on the situation.

Should the policy be based upon labor requirements, which it likely is, then there is a very easy solution. Purchasing a second set of coolers to be placed next to the original coolers will decrease the number of trips needed to refill. Many courses already have a system similar in place. The outlay of $50-$75 per cooler certainly outweighs the labor budget constraints of having a staff member refill 3-4 times daily. I am assuming the facility has approximately 4 coolers so the capital improvement cost would be $200-$300 for the coolers. If new stands are needed to fit the double coolers, then bartering with a customer with a wood working background would be a zero cost expenditure. Now, the ranger that is making $7/hour passing out water can be monitoring play as opposed to playing waterboy, another reduction is labor costs.

As far as the contaminated water situations, I vividly remember when this all began. I have seen first hand what most of these coolers look like the next day. That doesn't even include the goofballs that will put their mouth on the spout, I have seen this first hand, and the germs on that area. Multiple companies make potable/drinkable water tablets for less than $.07/retail. This was an option for some facilities but ultimately went by the wayside due to lack of attention. Sometimes reminding the right person can bring it back, it certainly did at my facility.

Greenie, good luck in your conversations.

[KMeloney]

[quote name='jmck' timestamp='1375367352' post='7583022']
Great attitude there. Sure hope you don't work in the customer service industry.

Like I said before, I can't believe anyone would defend such an asinine policy, especially when explained by such a rude employee.

What's next? Charging for paper score cards? A pro-rated deposit for a pencil, refunded based on how much lead you use?
[/quote]

There's a big difference between what would be nice, and what you think you are "owed." Free water would be nice. I don't think I'm owed free water, though. Sounds like you do -- and that you think it really doesn't cost anything. I think you're wrong there. Don't you have a water bill you have to pay each month? Aren't you charged for bottled water in a store?

Since it's not clear to me, which policy do you find asinine?

Regarding your "What's next?" comment... Let me get this straight. You think that pencils and tees (if they provide them at no cost) and paper score cards -- and water -- are all things that DON'T have real costs associated with them and that you're not ALREADY being charged for them? You don't think you're being charged for a score card and pencils when you pay a greens fee? Be offended all you want by a crusty old Ranger's poor attitude, but don't act like there aren't and shouldn't be costs associated with these things, and that you should be able to use as much of any of it/them as you want with no repercussions.

It was pretty telling when you said this:

[color=#282828]<<If cost is an issue, water the fairways 10 seconds less each time you water them--that would more than make up for all the extra water the walkers and their big bad water bottles are consuming.>>[/color]

[color=#282828]...Instead of suggesting that the course should simply charge more to keep the water free and plentiful. Why? Probably because you think that the water and the guy who'd be refilling the water coolers don't cost anything, and that people are willing to play a course with crappy conditions as long as they can take as much free water as they want. [/color]

[color=#282828]How can you not see that taking more of something than anyone planned for you to take will result in the pull-back of that something or a higher cost associated with that something?[/color]