I promised this group of misfits .. . .

[profsmitty]

We just put the article up. Hope you enjoy it. Working on the next one now. Probably a pace of play thing with a little different spin.

 

BTW if the there are any Super Senior concerns that you would like me to cover, please drop me a note. smitty

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/120530/its-a-shame-that-all-of-our-golf-life-cant-be-spent-like-this-night/

[ScooterMcTavish]

Enjoyed the piece very much George.

Also enjoyed the second comment by Paul. His day will come too.

[dbuck47]

Thanks, George. I read and enjoyed the passage very much. I have had a few of those experiences. Cool hat, too, by the way!

[rvgolfer]

Once I got to your comment about drunks and unskilled golfers on municipals,,it made it seem like your article was more like fictional story, rather than a true personal perspective. Make me wonder what else in your article is fabricated.

[birly-shirly]

[quote name='rvgolfer' timestamp='1375906348' post='7626258']
Once I got to your comment about drunks and unskilled golfers on municipals,,it made it seem like your article was more like fictional story, rather than a true personal perspective. Make me wonder what else in your article is fabricated.
[/quote]
Never occurred to me that this comment might not be sincere, but really? Prof smitty has come a long way from the origins, and in my opinion, the spirit of the game if that's his opinion of municipal golf. Shame really.

[rileyj]

Ya I didn't really know what to think about that passage which IMO detracted from an otherwise enjoyable read. In my experience you are just as likely to find a trancendent experience at a muni... talk about ghosts coming out to view. Fathers and sons and fathers and sons again... I'll take a muni any time - this game is borne of shepherd's fields and imperfect lies. I like an occasional visit to the country club but the idea of barricading one's self behind an iron gate with only those others fortunate enough to have those types of resources is damaging at best, elitist at worst.

[profsmitty]

Thanks or your thoughts. The sentence some of you object to shouldn't be read to condemn everyone who plays at every muni. I like to think I was referring to where a specific group of people might be found..

Frequent doesn't mean frequently. I forget some of us are too young for Dragnet. If a suspect was said to "frequent" a church, it didn't mean everyone at church was a suspect. It meant that SGt. Friday might find the suspect at church. A vast different!

If I was referring to robins and said "robins frequent the golf course", I don't think we would read that as saying that robins are the only birds seen at the golf course. I don't think you would read that to mean robins were the most common bird, or especially, that they were frequently seen at the golf course. I think most of us would read the sentence to say that robins can be seen at the golf course. So could doves, grackles, ducks, or Even an eagle or two.

[MrParr1Noid]

[quote name='profsmitty' timestamp='1375931689' post='7629318']
Thanks or your thoughts. The sentence some of you object to shouldn't be read to condemn everyone who plays at every muni. I like to think I was referring to where a specific group of people might be found..

Frequent doesn't mean frequently. I forget some of us are too young for Dragnet. If a suspect was said to "frequent" a church, it didn't mean everyone at church was a suspect. It meant that SGt. Friday might find the suspect at church. A vast different!

If I was referring to robins and said "robins frequent the golf course", I don't think we would read that as saying that robins are the only birds seen at the golf course. I don't think you would read that to mean robins were the most common bird, or especially, that they were frequently seen at the golf course. I think most of us would read the sentence to say that robins can be seen at the golf course. So could doves, grackles, ducks, or Even an eagle or two.
[/quote]

Smitty, I've seen all kinds of birds, squirrel, chipmunks, fox, muskrats, and an occasional beaver. .. ..[size=4]The golf course is the ultimate sanctuary, and this plus, and in ones own mind, can a place of peace be found...by some anyway... [/size]

[SatelliteGuy]

I actually found the comment about Drunks and Unskilled people who frequent Muni's to be condescending and without any modicum of tact or respect for people whom frequent Muni's.

Sorry a majority of the golfing public can't afford that country club, that men's cub, or the ability to escape from the " common " folk.

It's a shame really... Because of all my interactions on a golf course... The few that stick in my mind as some of the worst people to deal with...

Are the holier than thou, pompous, judgemental, windbags " whom frequent " Country Clubs.


I would like to think you, as the author, would realize that I am not referring to everyone who belongs to a country club, just where a specific group of people can be found.

[KYMAR]

[color=#444444]"We are members of a golf club (or country club) because we love playing on nice courses and we hate having our valuable time wasted by drunks and unskilled people who frequent municipal courses"[/color]

Wow, That's disappointing.

[birly-shirly]

[quote name='profsmitty' timestamp='1375931689' post='7629318']
Frequent doesn't mean frequently.[...]If I was referring to robins and said "robins frequent the golf course", I don't think we would read that as saying that robins are the only birds seen at the golf course. I don't think you would read that to mean robins were the most common bird, or especially, that they were frequently seen at the golf course. [/quote]

Nope. Oxford American Dictionary offers this definition "visit a place often or habitually"

I don't think anyone thought you were saying that everyone on a muni is drunk or unskilled, but you make the clearest inference that municipal golf can be characterised by the presence of drunks and unskilled golfers, and that joining a private club is the way to escape these unfortunates.

In fact, your article goes further. From the first paragraph, it asserts an "us" and "them" view - where "we" are members of a country club and also "learned how to be gentlemen (or women) on the course, learned how to fix a divot, how to rake bunkers, lay the flag gently onto the green or better yet, just off the green. We learned where to put our bag when we were putting." Oh, not forgetting "reasonably intellectual, middle to upper middle class and probably pretty good at the game" to boot.

Come on now, where does the logic of that leave the poor huddled masses of muni players?

I admire moderation and skill as much as the next guy. I admire honesty and integrity too, in golf and in life.

In this case, I think it would be honest to admit the plain meaning of your words, or honourable to admit that you made a mistake here.

[rvgolfer]

[quote name='profsmitty' timestamp='1375931689' post='7629318']
Thanks or your thoughts. The sentence some of you object to shouldn't be read to condemn everyone who plays at every muni. I like to think I was referring to where a specific group of people might be found..

Frequent doesn't mean frequently. I forget some of us are too young for Dragnet. If a suspect was said to "frequent" a church, it didn't mean everyone at church was a suspect. It meant that SGt. Friday might find the suspect at church. A vast different!

If I was referring to robins and said "robins frequent the golf course", I don't think we would read that as saying that robins are the only birds seen at the golf course. I don't think you would read that to mean robins were the most common bird, or especially, that they were frequently seen at the golf course. I think most of us would read the sentence to say that robins can be seen at the golf course. So could doves, grackles, ducks, or Even an eagle or two.
[/quote]

In my 40 years plus of playing golf on private, semi-private, and municipal courses, I have found that drunks and unskilled golfers FREQUENT each type of course.

I am old enough to remember Dragnet, and certainly don't need to be reminded of the difference between frequent, and frequently, and certainly don't need a long explanation using robins and other feathered fowl.

Frankly, I think you should own up to this inappropriate and pompous sentence and apologize.

[ScooterMcTavish]

Don't lose the forest for the trees, guys.

As a muni kid growing up, I disagreed with Smitty's comments on the muni, especially as my current course is a public course with memberships. And it is far from the posh country clubs I have seen. And there is often quite a few drunks and Mr. Choppers on the course, as it is accessible to anyone who wants to golf.

Does this bother me? Not really, though I do wish people would FIX THEIR FREAKING BALL MARKS.

Point being, Smitty wrote a very nice and nostalgic article, and people are getting hung up on one line. If you had a muni to play on, and due to drinking and poor play rounds were taking six hours (as they did at mine when I was younger), why wouldn't you join a private club to get away from this if you had the means?

I personally eschew elitism, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here.

[erikro]

[quote name='rvgolfer' timestamp='1375958674' post='7630360']
[quote name='profsmitty' timestamp='1375931689' post='7629318']
Thanks or your thoughts. The sentence some of you object to shouldn't be read to condemn everyone who plays at every muni. I like to think I was referring to where a specific group of people might be found..

Frequent doesn't mean frequently. I forget some of us are too young for Dragnet. If a suspect was said to "frequent" a church, it didn't mean everyone at church was a suspect. It meant that SGt. Friday might find the suspect at church. A vast different!

If I was referring to robins and said "robins frequent the golf course", I don't think we would read that as saying that robins are the only birds seen at the golf course. I don't think you would read that to mean robins were the most common bird, or especially, that they were frequently seen at the golf course. I think most of us would read the sentence to say that robins can be seen at the golf course. So could doves, grackles, ducks, or Even an eagle or two.
[/quote]

In my 40 years plus of playing golf on private, semi-private, and municipal courses, I have found that drunks and unskilled golfers FREQUENT each type of course.

I am old enough to remember Dragnet, and certainly don't need to be reminded of the difference between frequent, and frequently, and certainly don't need a long explanation using robins and other feathered fowl.

Frankly, I think you should own up to this inappropriate and pompous sentence and apologize.
[/quote]



Do you really think he needs to apologize? Who is being pompous now? Never read anything you didnt agree with before?

[rvgolfer]

[quote name='erikro' timestamp='1375963696' post='7630542']
[quote name='rvgolfer' timestamp='1375958674' post='7630360']
[quote name='profsmitty' timestamp='1375931689' post='7629318']
Thanks or your thoughts. The sentence some of you object to shouldn't be read to condemn everyone who plays at every muni. I like to think I was referring to where a specific group of people might be found..

Frequent doesn't mean frequently. I forget some of us are too young for Dragnet. If a suspect was said to "frequent" a church, it didn't mean everyone at church was a suspect. It meant that SGt. Friday might find the suspect at church. A vast different!

If I was referring to robins and said "robins frequent the golf course", I don't think we would read that as saying that robins are the only birds seen at the golf course. I don't think you would read that to mean robins were the most common bird, or especially, that they were frequently seen at the golf course. I think most of us would read the sentence to say that robins can be seen at the golf course. So could doves, grackles, ducks, or Even an eagle or two.
[/quote]

In my 40 years plus of playing golf on private, semi-private, and municipal courses, I have found that drunks and unskilled golfers FREQUENT each type of course.

I am old enough to remember Dragnet, and certainly don't need to be reminded of the difference between frequent, and frequently, and certainly don't need a long explanation using robins and other feathered fowl.

Frankly, I think you should own up to this inappropriate and pompous sentence and apologize.
[/quote]



Do you really think he needs to apologize? Who is being pompous now? Never read anything you didnt agree with before?
[/quote]

It's one thing to disagree when it comes to opinions, but implying that drunks and unskilled golfers frequent municipals and not private isn't an opinion, its a falsehood. And when the facts don't support a statement, then yes,,I think an apology is the right thing to do.

[dbuck47]

In my early teens, my father joined a country club so I could play golf. This was a very small town and was the only golf course (9 holes by the way) available in the immediate area. The pro at the course at the time actually liked young people to play, and I lived out of the city limits so he would let me on, so joining was more of a convenience than a necessity. My father didn't play, and only came out there once as I recall. He was a(very) small business owner, but the membership of the club included everything from bank presidents and physicians to "regular" folks who had routine jobs. I lived in this town again for awhile, and became a member of the club myself. I could justify it to the wife because of the pool for my kids. If I recall, dues were $40 monthly, and an annual fee of $150 to store your cart at the club, which included gas or electricity depending on which type of cart you owned. The skill level was varied to say the least, but regardless of your ability, you learned to keep up the pace or get the hell out of the way. Some folks consumed a lot of beer during their rounds, but mostly everyone took care of the course, and had decent manners during play. A good friend of mine was not who you wanted on your scramble team during holidays such as the 4th of July, as he was prone to setting off fireworks during the round. Mostly, these types of antics were kept to a minimum.

I have lived in a large town that had several municipal golf courses where I played while I lived there. There was one where there was at times a certain danger of being robbed at gunpoint on an isolated hole. The course was kept in fairly good shape, and all types of folks were about, some serious golfers and some not so.

My current "home" course is a public course open to everyone but not a muni. It is owned and operated by a university. The standards of behavior are quite good. There are rangers and rude behavior isn't tolerated. At the same time, slow players are gently moved along, and rules are enforced fairly but with reasonable discretion.There is a fairly decent driving range and putting green. The staff is very courteous and friendly. The men's and women's golf team practice facilities are also on site but not available to the public. Both teams of course use the course. (haha,sorry). The course itself is an interesting track and well maintained, and has been upgraded several times over the years. It can be as challenging or playable as you desire by choosing the appropriate tees-4 sets available. It has been somewhat difficult in this small town over the years to maintain a private country club, I think because of the quality of the university course.

Manners, course etiquette, and sincerity are qualities that transcend socio-economic status, club membership, and handicap index. I would say that most if not all the participants on this section of the forum are "elitist" to a degree, in that we take the game seriously while realizing it is a game. Some of us are by nature more competitive than others; I play golf for enjoyment mostly, but there are a couple of longtime friends with whom I am very competitive when we have the opportunity to play. If I play a casual game with you, I will play the ball as it lies and by the rules as closely as I can. You can play with the latest modern equipment from Golf Galaxy, your boxed set from Target, or your set like mine that looks like it came from a bad yard sale. If you want to improve your lies a bit, or hit a mulligan if the course isn't crowded, I won't bite your head off as long as we are not in a competition of any kind. I do expect you to fix your ball marks and be as quiet as practical while I putt. If you forget your ball mark and I see it, I will fix it for you. In this respect, we are all members of a "golf club", or a "gentleman's club" regardless of your gender. We are a group who play golf with various reasons and levels of ability, but respect the course, the game, and the rights of others while protecting our own. We do prefer and enjoy when possible, to play with golfers of like mind. I won't put words in the professor's mouth, but this is the way I perceived and accepted his comments.

[SatelliteGuy]

[quote name='ScooterMcTavish' timestamp='1375963655' post='7630536']
Don't lose the forest for the trees, guys.

As a muni kid growing up, I disagreed with Smitty's comments on the muni, especially as my current course is a public course with memberships. And it is far from the posh country clubs I have seen. And there is often quite a few drunks and Mr. Choppers on the course, as it is accessible to anyone who wants to golf.

Does this bother me? Not really, though I do wish people would FIX THEIR FREAKING BALL MARKS.

Point being, Smitty wrote a very nice and nostalgic article, and people are getting hung up on one line. If you had a muni to play on, and due to drinking and poor play rounds were taking six hours (as they did at mine when I was younger), why wouldn't you join a private club to get away from this if you had the means?

I personally eschew elitism, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here.
[/quote]

How do you believe my statement would be received by people who belong to Country Clubs..

Labeling people " holier than thou, pompous, judgemental, windbags "

You think people who belong to a CC appreciate that type of comparison/statement?

Also..

This man is writing an article as a profession... Maybe he's compensated, maybe he's not...

But he volunteers or he's employed... I hold him to the same standard I hold all writers.... And that statement was uncalled for and condescending... Period.

Secondly.... The very website he writes for is constantly yammering about " Take the High Road "


Does that feel like the " High Road " to you?

[okesa]

[size=5]A politician said of a paper he had written"There are those for it,there are those against it and there are those that have read it."[/size]
[size=5]I now qualify for the latter two of those categories.[/size]
[size=5]Sorry Prof.,you have not managed to raise the standard of writing or reportage on this website which generally is of very low quality.[/size]
[size=5]The entire piece is maudlin and rather twee as well as being wildly inaccurate with sweeping statements on those who frequent municipal courses,punctuation is poor and you refer to the game of golf as a sport.[/size]
[size=5]You appear to be the worst kind of snob and rather shallow in your perceptions.[/size]
[size=5]Scathing?I hope so,because people who appear 'in print' should offer something which I am unable to achieve and you have failed miserably in that.[/size]
[size=5]Go and find PG Wodehouse,Patrick Campbell,Henry Longhurst,Bernard Darwin,Louis T Stanley and the like and;"Read,learn and inwardly digest."[/size]

[8thehardway]

My first post to the actual article asked

Why do drunks frequent municipal courses?

The post below was in response to someone asking for more of my thoughts. I'd like it to appear here as well.



I kept the post brief hoping to lure the author out of hiding but it’s a difficult position to defend. I think more words allows more places for the author to hide behind, but here’s the full scope of my thoughts and feelings and thanks for asking…

I wouldn’t expect many “drunks” (in the author’s sense, perpetually inebriated) to golf but when they do, why would they frequent the one venue that doesn’t serve alcohol? Any conclusion must speak to an indifference or tolerance that occurs throughout America’s 2000+ municipal courses and, until clarified, exists as a blanket indictment of every participant.

Does the author believe the random distribution of golfing drunks gravitates toward municipal courses because of universally bad management and indifferent staff or an exceedingly tolerant golfing public? Does it seem to him even remotely possible that a mix of golfers including parents playing with their children and golfers with the authority to enforce, or even make laws would endure six-hour rounds, dodge drives and tolerate alcohol-fueled vandalism or that management/staff would show a continued indifference to on-course complaints, higher maintenance budgets, confrontations and lawsuits?

I’ve played hundreds of rounds on seven local municipal courses and find no basis for such a provocative and offensive statement; it demeans all who contribute to and enjoy the experience of municipal golf and negatively influences those considering it. It promotes an ‘us/them’ approach that is out of place within the community of golfers and it’s inclusion makes absolutely no sense within the theme of the article itself.

Why introduce such discordance, other than to promote a divide so deeply embedded that its uncritical acceptance constitutes an integral part of his ideal life. It seems the ghosts who speak to him are country club ghosts; not surprisingly, they also make judgements about who deserves to hear them expound on ‘the joy of the game.’ I’d have a hard time understanding that paradox but apparently the author’s ears are perfectly attuned.

The author wrote that he learned to be a gentleman on the course; I hope he completes the remainder of his education.

[Skip Castaneda]

There were several mentions of six hour rounds. I too remember those long rounds in the mid 1990's. I think people have gotten faster nowadays. Now the big distraction on a golf course are cell phones. I turn mine off when I play.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='KYMAR' timestamp='1375936902' post='7629768']
[color=#444444]"We are members of a golf club (or country club) because we love playing on nice courses and we hate having our valuable time wasted by drunks and unskilled people who frequent municipal courses"[/color]

Wow, That's disappointing.
[/quote]

Agreed.