I think I need some opinions - please help!

[WpgMike]

I'm wondering at what point I should stop trying to change my swing and stick with the one I own. I'm currently a 8.1 handicap and I feel I'm golfing well but I think I've maxed out my swing (ie. I don't think I will get much better with the swing I have). I'm laid off and flat (think one plane swing) which causes my divots to point left ALL THE TIME. If I square the face I hit a 10 yard pull and if I don't I hit it either straight (if there isn't enough right spin to cause the ball to move) or fade 5 to 10 yards. I hit the occaisional 15-20 yard slice. I hit hit about 1/2 to 2/3 of fairways and 1/2 to 2/3 of greens (but I have a lot of long two putts). My 7 iron only goes about 135-140 due to the fact that my outside in swing path is wiping the ball. Driver about 230-240 carry and roll.

 

I went to GolfTec yesterday and they offer 10 lessons and 90 minutes of launch monitor/camera time a week for about $900. Before I committ to this I'm wondering if I should just keep playing with what I've got? My concern is: what if I work on changing my swing and I get worse next summer and then I can't get my current swing back? I'd feel like such a dummy if that happened. I've heard of guys who try to change their swing too much and end up all screwed up and bever get back to the scores they were at during their best days. I'm 37 years old.

 

If you have thoughts on GolfTec I'd like to hear them but the main point of this post is about the risks of a swing change and whether it's worth it given my age. The swing I have is really grooved. I've probably hit 25,000 balls over the past 2 years. My golf season will end in 1 month and I will practice exclusively in a dome all winter. I feel like I'm at a crossroads.

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

Mike

[JBOMB808]

Lessons are good. Never was a fan of Golftec though. You got to go out and hit off turf to really know what your doing. A mat indoors just won't cut it. I think you can work it out on your own if you know your faults. If it's a pull then it's definitely OTT. With a flat swing, I wouldn't be surprised if you're sucking the club into the inside too soon. A simple way to fix an OTT move is to practice with a sidehill lie. Ball above your feet. Should be easier if you're already comfortable with flat swing. Your posture just may need to be adjusted when you have a flat lie.

[WpgMike]

Thanks JBomb. As far as mats, whether I use golftec or not I have to hit off of mats for 6 months. Where I live it's that or nothing and I've found mats are better than putting the clubs away.

You're right, I suck it back a little inside. I also think I don't get my elbow far away enough from my body.

[dreich54311]

I'd advise staying with what you've got and work to improve that with more practice. My experience with lessons has not been good as I've taken them regularly over the past 25 years with no measurable benefit and with my last instructor, serious deterioration in my scoring abilities occurred.

I played golf about 50 years with what I considered a technically bad swing with a right arm takeaway with little corresponding body turn but after many years,of steady practice and play got down to mid single digit handicap but with much inconsistency. About 5 years ago I decide to make a major swing change with left arm control. It has been a disaster with handicap to mid teens and as you fear I can't find my old sing back.

[sblack5]

you could get a few video lessons for FAR less expense on golf channel's swing fix. Monte scheinblum is one of their instructors that posts here regularly to help folks out

[golfnut9922]

Here is my initial issues with Golftec.

I had progressed to the mid 80's on my own and felt I could get over the hump with lessons. I took 18 months of lessons and I couldnt hit the ball after that. I had 3 different instructors in that period. They kept moving staff around as they expanded. It killed my lessons. Each instructor had a different approach, and they all wanted to compare me to Tiger, DL3 or any other tall golfer.

I stopped playing golf for 2 years after the lessons, I could not clear my head. I had so many competing thoughts. I played 2 charity events that a buddy has each year. Other than that no golf.

July of this year, I walked back into the Golftec facility, again all new staff, told them my story and they said they would give me a couple of free lessons to see what can be done.

The one thing I was crystal clear about was that I wanted to swing my swing(thanks AP). No trying to get me into the position of the pros. Take what I have and make it better.

So far it has been great. I am back in the mid 80's after 2 months, and I will keep getting better.

Moral of the story have them find the little flaw, not rework your whole swing.

Gary

[Schnee]

[quote name='sblack5' timestamp='1378905245' post='7831445']
you could get a few video lessons for FAR less expense on golf channel's swing fix. Monte scheinblum is one of their instructors that posts here regularly to help folks out
[/quote]

Good point sblack.

Also, OP, depending upon where you live, you could go see iTeach in Jacksonville for a 2 day? school for that much. I haven't been to see him but from what I hear he gives you a real roadmap to improvement. Or if you're closer to Monte in California, an in person lesson with him would do wonders.

[sblack5]

he mentioned being off mats for next 6 months so I'm assuming canadian

[WpgMike]

Thanks for all of your thoughts, they are all helpful. Yes I'm in Canada for better or worse...

I'm going for a 90 minute game evaluation today which they have on sale for their opening week. I'll let you guys know what he says. If it sounds like he wants me to change my swing a lot I don't think I'll go back.

[kellygreen]

[quote name='WpgMike' timestamp='1378845508' post='7827873']
I'm wondering at what point I should stop trying to change my swing and stick with the one I own. I'm currently a 8.1 handicap and I feel I'm golfing well but I think I've maxed out my swing (ie. I don't think I will get much better with the swing I have). I'm laid off and flat (think one plane swing) which causes my divots to point left ALL THE TIME. If I square the face I hit a 10 yard pull and if I don't I hit it either straight (if there isn't enough right spin to cause the ball to move) or fade 5 to 10 yards. I hit the occaisional 15-20 yard slice. I hit hit about 1/2 to 2/3 of fairways and 1/2 to 2/3 of greens (but I have a lot of long two putts). My 7 iron only goes about 135-140 due to the fact that my outside in swing path is wiping the ball. Driver about 230-240 carry and roll.

I went to GolfTec yesterday and they offer 10 lessons and 90 minutes of launch monitor/camera time a week for about $900. Before I committ to this I'm wondering if I should just keep playing with what I've got? My concern is: what if I work on changing my swing and I get worse next summer and then I can't get my current swing back? I'd feel like such a dummy if that happened. I've heard of guys who try to change their swing too much and end up all screwed up and bever get back to the scores they were at during their best days. I'm 37 years old.

If you have thoughts on GolfTec I'd like to hear them but the main point of this post is about the risks of a swing change and whether it's worth it given my age. The swing I have is really grooved. I've probably hit 25,000 balls over the past 2 years. My golf season will end in 1 month and I will practice exclusively in a dome all winter. I feel like I'm at a crossroads.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Mike
[/quote]

If you are playing to an 8 handicap, and describing your game accurately, I would be very careful about taking lessons.

Because it sounds like you already have a very serviceable swing, with a playable shot shape, and one of the most valuable things in golf....a "[i]predictable miss[/i]". IOW, your swing repeats enough for you to have a good idea of where your bad shots will go (and why).

If you do decide to take lessons---and I'm not saying that you shouldn't----you need to go into this with your eyes wide open, and a VERY clear idea of what you want. What it is you want to fix...and how you want to go about fixing it. How people get "lost" at your stage with lessons is usually a result of either: not wanting to put in the work to make a major change; being unwilling to take a small step backward to go forward; or entrusting their swing to someone who wants to see them swing the club in a particular fashion. Regardless of whether that method is suitable to the person's body type or athletic instincts.

It sounds like you are somewhat of a "body swinger". Since you play a fade, and you describe your club as "flat and laid-of", which insn't necessarily incorrect (compared to the an upright, "classic" swinger) if the club is short-of-parallel.

So I would be HIGHLY suspicious of anyone who wants to make a major overhaul of your swing, as opposed to finding ways to make your current motion more efficient. For example, finding out if you are adding loft or if you are arms are disconnected from your body-turn, or other "unnecessary moving parts" in your motion that might be robbing you of power.

I'd be even more suspicious of anyone who wants to change your swingpath simply for the sake of changing it...unless YOU want to do that yourself. Changing your natural shot-shape is very difficult to do, and usually takes a LOT of hardwork unless you are doing something that is pretty basic and clearly, fundamentally flawed.

..and at a 8 handicap, that is pretty unlikely.

[kellygreen]

[quote name='WpgMike' timestamp='1378918552' post='7832597']
Thanks for all of your thoughts, they are all helpful. Yes I'm in Canada for better or worse...

I'm going for a 90 minute game evaluation today which they have on sale for their opening week. I'll let you guys know what he says. [i][b]If it sounds like he wants me to change my swing a lot I don't think I'll go back.[/b][/i]
[/quote]

I wouldn't.

[WpgMike]

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1378919381' post='7832657']
[quote name='WpgMike' timestamp='1378845508' post='7827873']
I'm wondering at what point I should stop trying to change my swing and stick with the one I own. I'm currently a 8.1 handicap and I feel I'm golfing well but I think I've maxed out my swing (ie. I don't think I will get much better with the swing I have). I'm laid off and flat (think one plane swing) which causes my divots to point left ALL THE TIME. If I square the face I hit a 10 yard pull and if I don't I hit it either straight (if there isn't enough right spin to cause the ball to move) or fade 5 to 10 yards. I hit the occaisional 15-20 yard slice. I hit hit about 1/2 to 2/3 of fairways and 1/2 to 2/3 of greens (but I have a lot of long two putts). My 7 iron only goes about 135-140 due to the fact that my outside in swing path is wiping the ball. Driver about 230-240 carry and roll.

I went to GolfTec yesterday and they offer 10 lessons and 90 minutes of launch monitor/camera time a week for about $900. Before I committ to this I'm wondering if I should just keep playing with what I've got? My concern is: what if I work on changing my swing and I get worse next summer and then I can't get my current swing back? I'd feel like such a dummy if that happened. I've heard of guys who try to change their swing too much and end up all screwed up and bever get back to the scores they were at during their best days. I'm 37 years old.

If you have thoughts on GolfTec I'd like to hear them but the main point of this post is about the risks of a swing change and whether it's worth it given my age. The swing I have is really grooved. I've probably hit 25,000 balls over the past 2 years. My golf season will end in 1 month and I will practice exclusively in a dome all winter. I feel like I'm at a crossroads.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Mike
[/quote]

If you are playing to an 8 handicap, and describing your game accurately, I would be very careful about taking lessons.

Because it sounds like you already have a very serviceable swing, with a playable shot shape, and one of the most valuable things in golf....a "[i]predictable miss[/i]". IOW, your swing repeats enough for you to have a good idea of where your bad shots will go (and why).

If you do decide to take lessons---and I'm not saying that you shouldn't----you need to go into this with your eyes wide open, and a VERY clear idea of what you want. What it is you want to fix...and how you want to go about fixing it. How people get "lost" at your stage with lessons is usually a result of either: not wanting to put in the work to make a major change; being unwilling to take a small step backward to go forward; or entrusting their swing to someone who wants to see them swing the club in a particular fashion. Regardless of whether that method is suitable to the person's body type or athletic instincts.

It sounds like you are somewhat of a "body swinger". Since you play a fade, and you describe your club as "flat and laid-of", which insn't necessarily incorrect (compared to the an upright, "classic" swinger) if the club is short-of-parallel.

So I would be HIGHLY suspicious of anyone who wants to make a major overhaul of your swing, as opposed to finding ways to make your current motion more efficient. For example, finding out if you are adding loft or if you are arms are disconnected from your body-turn, or other "unnecessary moving parts" in your motion that might be robbing you of power.

I'd be even more suspicious of anyone who wants to change your swingpath simply for the sake of changing it...unless YOU want to do that yourself. Changing your natural shot-shape is very difficult to do, and usually takes a LOT of hardwork unless you are doing something that is pretty basic and clearly, fundamentally flawed.

..and at a 8 handicap, that is pretty unlikely.
[/quote]

This was really great, thanks for taking the time to write this up. I'll let you know how it goes today.

My goal (and I don't know if this is a reasonable one) is this: I'd like my divots to point to the target (ie. square swing path to the target) rather than left of target. That will hopefully get rid of my 'pull' miss and I can take the left side out of play. My shot shape would then be exclusively straight or right (if I don't square the face up to the swing path).

[kellygreen]

[quote name='WpgMike' timestamp='1378922225' post='7832957']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1378919381' post='7832657']
[quote name='WpgMike' timestamp='1378845508' post='7827873']
I'm wondering at what point I should stop trying to change my swing and stick with the one I own. I'm currently a 8.1 handicap and I feel I'm golfing well but I think I've maxed out my swing (ie. I don't think I will get much better with the swing I have). I'm laid off and flat (think one plane swing) which causes my divots to point left ALL THE TIME. If I square the face I hit a 10 yard pull and if I don't I hit it either straight (if there isn't enough right spin to cause the ball to move) or fade 5 to 10 yards. I hit the occaisional 15-20 yard slice. I hit hit about 1/2 to 2/3 of fairways and 1/2 to 2/3 of greens (but I have a lot of long two putts). My 7 iron only goes about 135-140 due to the fact that my outside in swing path is wiping the ball. Driver about 230-240 carry and roll.

I went to GolfTec yesterday and they offer 10 lessons and 90 minutes of launch monitor/camera time a week for about $900. Before I committ to this I'm wondering if I should just keep playing with what I've got? My concern is: what if I work on changing my swing and I get worse next summer and then I can't get my current swing back? I'd feel like such a dummy if that happened. I've heard of guys who try to change their swing too much and end up all screwed up and bever get back to the scores they were at during their best days. I'm 37 years old.

If you have thoughts on GolfTec I'd like to hear them but the main point of this post is about the risks of a swing change and whether it's worth it given my age. The swing I have is really grooved. I've probably hit 25,000 balls over the past 2 years. My golf season will end in 1 month and I will practice exclusively in a dome all winter. I feel like I'm at a crossroads.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Mike
[/quote]

If you are playing to an 8 handicap, and describing your game accurately, I would be very careful about taking lessons.

Because it sounds like you already have a very serviceable swing, with a playable shot shape, and one of the most valuable things in golf....a "[i]predictable miss[/i]". IOW, your swing repeats enough for you to have a good idea of where your bad shots will go (and why).

If you do decide to take lessons---and I'm not saying that you shouldn't----you need to go into this with your eyes wide open, and a VERY clear idea of what you want. What it is you want to fix...and how you want to go about fixing it. How people get "lost" at your stage with lessons is usually a result of either: not wanting to put in the work to make a major change; being unwilling to take a small step backward to go forward; or entrusting their swing to someone who wants to see them swing the club in a particular fashion. Regardless of whether that method is suitable to the person's body type or athletic instincts.

It sounds like you are somewhat of a "body swinger". Since you play a fade, and you describe your club as "flat and laid-of", which insn't necessarily incorrect (compared to the an upright, "classic" swinger) if the club is short-of-parallel.

So I would be HIGHLY suspicious of anyone who wants to make a major overhaul of your swing, as opposed to finding ways to make your current motion more efficient. For example, finding out if you are adding loft or if you are arms are disconnected from your body-turn, or other "unnecessary moving parts" in your motion that might be robbing you of power.

I'd be even more suspicious of anyone who wants to change your swingpath simply for the sake of changing it...unless YOU want to do that yourself. Changing your natural shot-shape is very difficult to do, and usually takes a LOT of hardwork unless you are doing something that is pretty basic and clearly, fundamentally flawed.

..and at a 8 handicap, that is pretty unlikely.
[/quote]

This was really great, thanks for taking the time to write this up. I'll let you know how it goes today.

My goal (and I don't know if this is a reasonable one) is this: I'd like my divots to point to the target (ie. square swing path to the target) rather than left of target. That will hopefully get rid of my 'pull' miss and I can take the left side out of play. My shot shape would then be exclusively straight or right (if I don't square the face up to the swing path).
[/quote]

Hard to give an exact diagnosis without seeing video of your swing, but what you are describing could be as simple as a footwork problem.

But reducing the size of your fade,(by missing "right", I'm assuming that you're talking about any over-cooked fade) and eliminating the "double-cross" aren't things that should require a major overhaul.

[cornbred19]

i was in the same boat...got pretty good at wiping the ball, single digit hdcp, early 30's...hitting it short but having a quality short game to get up and down for par...but getting taken to the cleaners on longer courses...

i plunged and started taking lessons to correct my path and sequence...my hdcp went up in the process but in the end, has been so worth it...i'm not as consistent as i used to be, but i'm hitting shots now that i never could have before and making more birdies to offset the double and triples...your hdcp will rise as you go through this...but i'm having more fun now...i can draw and fade it, hit it high, low whatever...my old bad habits creep in from time to time but i'm not looking back...

[WpgMike]

That's good to know cornbred, thanks.

I went for the evaluation today and the guy wasn't anxious to change my swing much at all, which was great to hear. He mentioned the two things I know I need to fix, the takeaway is still to far inside and the right elbow is pinned to my side at the top causing me to be laid off and flat.

The thing I would benefit from most is being able to spend 90 minutes a week with the cameras. I can take a swing and see if what I feel is real and be assued that I'm not over correcting. I'm pretty certain this would improve my swing. Now I just need to figure out if that's worth the money and if I can consistently get there 3 times a week for 3 months.