Better Players "Rolling the Ball in the Fairway". What's the Point?

[HighSpeedScene]

Winter rules - lol.

Like that's a rule of golf.

[KCCO]

If your not keeping score, and working on ur game having a practice round, do whatever works for you. But when keeping score you will never get an honest HC, and are only fooling yourself. But, I don't believe you should have to hit a ball with a wad of mud on it, although this contradicts myself, this usually doesn't happen at more properly maintained courses. So I don't have a problem with a player (non-officiated round) cleaning there ball, but moving to improve lie, or improve angle I don't find kosher. I just hit whatever, wherever because I will eventually run into that shot when there isn't an option to adjust situation of mud, lie, etc.

[mjtoal]

[quote name='HighSpeedScene' timestamp='1381684394' post='7995361']
Winter rules - lol.

Like that's a rule of golf.
[/quote]

It is just like Appendix 1a, 4b, in fact.

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-of-Golf.aspx#/rules/?ruleNum=4.%20Course%20Conditions%20-%20Mud,%20Extreme%20Wetness,%20Poor%20Conditions%20and%20Protection%20of%20Course

[HighSpeedScene]

[quote name='mjtoal' timestamp='1381687480' post='7995493']
[quote name='HighSpeedScene' timestamp='1381684394' post='7995361']
Winter rules - lol.

Like that's a rule of golf.
[/quote]

It is just like Appendix 1a, 4b, in fact.

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-of-Golf.aspx#/rules/?ruleNum=4.%20Course%20Conditions%20-%20Mud,%20Extreme%20Wetness,%20Poor%20Conditions%20and%20Protection%20of%20Course
[/quote]

Nice gotcha, but you know what I meant.

[MtlJeff]

If my course is winter rules i'm more then happy to play against guys who insist on not touching the ball. Not sure why you wouldn't give yourself every advantage allowed to you by the rules.

One of our club championship rounds was LCP due to weather, every player in the field that i spoke to moved their ball. I don't remember guys coming into the clubhouse and boasting about playing it down, nor do i think they would have met with anything other then ridicule for making it more difficult on themselves

[Ballgofarboy]

[quote name='HighSpeedScene' timestamp='1381684394' post='7995361']
Winter rules - lol.

Like that's a rule of golf.
[/quote]

Nope not a rule of golf, more like a LOCAL rule that clubs see fit to use when they know the ground conditions are not what they should be.

[Bucken77]

How about in the winter when you hit a good shot into a crap ton of leaves and can't find it. Do you count a stroke or just drop a ball where you think it was?

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='Bucken77' timestamp='1381703674' post='7996299']
How about in the winter when you hit a good shot into a crap ton of leaves and can't find it. Do you count a stroke or just drop a ball where you think it was?
[/quote]

That should be a thread all into itself. Northeastern golfers if they don't abide by some sort of "leaf rule" face situations where they are either going to play 5 hour rounds or see their handicap go up a couple of shots just based on leaves at the end of the year.

People not from the area don't really get it, you can be 2 feet off the fairway and have no chance of finding your ball. I've lost a ball, then taken a drop, then gone to my bag which was 25 feet away to get a club, then lost the ball i dropped when the wind blew leaves on it

IMO it's a grey area. Discussing is just going to lead to more internet fisticuffs.

But i think in the northeast handicap control is a tough thing. Some guys stop playing in mid October and then go south or something. If people are so inclined they can play through October and then in April and start the season as a 8 handicap when they should be a 3

that isn't fair either

[scottvw13]

[quote name='mjtoal' timestamp='1381687480' post='7995493']
[quote name='HighSpeedScene' timestamp='1381684394' post='7995361']
Winter rules - lol.

Like that's a rule of golf.
[/quote]

It is just like Appendix 1a, 4b, in fact.

[url="http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-of-Golf.aspx#/rules/?ruleNum=4.%20Course%20Conditions%20-%20Mud,%20Extreme%20Wetness,%20Poor%20Conditions%20and%20Protection%20of%20Course"]http://www.randa.org...ction of Course[/url]
[/quote]

That is the R&A rules, but I don't believe the USGA recognizes such a rule.

I know the USGA NEVER EVER plays LCP, because they feel that mud on the ball is rub of the green

[StarFleetGolfer]

Every region has some conditions that maybe extreme to deal with. Here in September and October you can be 4 feet above the hole and watch your ball roll 80 feet off the green.

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='Golfjunki71' timestamp='1381704645' post='7996353']
Every region has some conditions that maybe extreme to deal with. Here in September and October you can be 4 feet above the hole and watch your ball roll 80 feet off the green.
[/quote]

So what is the solution? Lose 6 balls and card a 86 when you would have shot a 78, and have this happen multiple times for a month?

I know a guy who starts every season as a 7-8 handicap because of stuff like that, and then goes out and shoots 72's in May.

I don't think that is a fair use of the handicap system either.

I'd rather guys "cheat" if it means a fair representation of their abilities for handicap purposes

[italianstallion]

I commented earlier, but reading some of these responses I've gotta say: preferred lies doesn't automatically produce a good shot, you've still gotta swing and hit the ball. My grandma can roll a ball in a fairway, but she wouldn't be able to hit a green from 150 yards out for her life.

I played a tournament where we played ball in hand in your own fairway. I didn't always touch my ball, but if there was mud on it I cleaned it. When I was 240 out on a par 5 that I was going for in two, I put that ball on the fluffiest lie I could find in the fairway. I love playing it down as much as the next guy, but if I can gain an even greater advantage for hitting it in the fairway, I'm going to take it. Especially when everybody else in the field can do the same.

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

Well duh-uh. Of course if you could actually roll the ball according to the Rules of Golf then everyone would do it, all the time. Hell if the Rules allowed it I'd go drop my ball in the middle of the fairway instead of hitting driver. I'd make a lot more pars and birdies that way, even though I'd still "gotta hit the ball".

I've often observed that for all the people you see carrying around golf clubs and clogging up the tee sheet, precious few of them have any interest in actually playing golf. Most of them are playing games of their own devising, sort of like golf except a lot easier.

[italianstallion]

[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1381709862' post='7996679']
Well duh-uh. Of course if you could actually roll the ball according to the Rules of Golf then everyone would do it, all the time. Hell if the Rules allowed it I'd go drop my ball in the middle of the fairway instead of hitting driver. I'd make a lot more pars and birdies that way, even though I'd still "gotta hit the ball".

I've often observed that for all the people you see carrying around golf clubs and clogging up the tee sheet, precious few of them have any interest in actually playing golf. Most of them are playing games of their own devising, sort of like golf except a lot easier.
[/quote]

Your first point is a classic straw-man response. You've still "gotta hit the ball" in the fairway before you can roll the ball in the fairway under lift, clean and place. And the tournament committee (PGA professional) established the rules for this tournament, I just showed up.

I agree with your second paragraph however, especially when it comes to the definition of "inside the leather" among amateurs, but thats a different thread.

[HighSpeedScene]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1381704877' post='7996375']
[quote name='Golfjunki71' timestamp='1381704645' post='7996353']
Every region has some conditions that maybe extreme to deal with. Here in September and October you can be 4 feet above the hole and watch your ball roll 80 feet off the green.
[/quote]

So what is the solution? Lose 6 balls and card a 86 when you would have shot a 78, and have this happen multiple times for a month?

I know a guy who starts every season as a 7-8 handicap because of stuff like that, and then goes out and shoots 72's in May.

I don't think that is a fair use of the handicap system either.

I'd rather guys "cheat" if it means a fair representation of their abilities for handicap purposes
[/quote]

"Would have shot"?

Why play at all if you know what you would shoot - just go warm up, hit some putts, post a score. Think of the time saved!

[HighSpeedScene]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1381692725' post='7995739']
If my course is winter rules i'm more then happy to play against guys who insist on not touching the ball. Not sure why you wouldn't give yourself every advantage allowed to you by the rules.

One of our club championship rounds was LCP due to weather, every player in the field that i spoke to moved their ball. I don't remember guys coming into the clubhouse and boasting about playing it down, nor do i think they would have met with anything other then ridicule for making it more difficult on themselves
[/quote]

LCP thread is over there - this is about this players that roll the ball in all conditions. Nobody disputes that LCP is a valid local rule, and if it were the rule of the day, of course everyone would use it. I think it should only be used in truly exceptional situations, but I would use it if it were a condition of competition. Casual round? No way. But others are free to do as they please - but I wish they would own up to cheating.

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='HighSpeedScene' timestamp='1381712288' post='7996889']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1381704877' post='7996375']
[quote name='Golfjunki71' timestamp='1381704645' post='7996353']
Every region has some conditions that maybe extreme to deal with. Here in September and October you can be 4 feet above the hole and watch your ball roll 80 feet off the green.
[/quote]

So what is the solution? Lose 6 balls and card a 86 when you would have shot a 78, and have this happen multiple times for a month?

I know a guy who starts every season as a 7-8 handicap because of stuff like that, and then goes out and shoots 72's in May.

I don't think that is a fair use of the handicap system either.

I'd rather guys "cheat" if it means a fair representation of their abilities for handicap purposes
[/quote]

"Would have shot"?

Why play at all if you know what you would shoot - just go warm up, hit some putts, post a score. Think of the time saved!
[/quote]

We are on a seperate topic now. I don't think we'll agree on this one. Regardless we're talking about a very narrow timeframe of playing fall golf. I'm just going to move along because really it's not worth arguing over.

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='HighSpeedScene' timestamp='1381712863' post='7996939']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1381692725' post='7995739']
If my course is winter rules i'm more then happy to play against guys who insist on not touching the ball. Not sure why you wouldn't give yourself every advantage allowed to you by the rules.

One of our club championship rounds was LCP due to weather, every player in the field that i spoke to moved their ball. I don't remember guys coming into the clubhouse and boasting about playing it down, nor do i think they would have met with anything other then ridicule for making it more difficult on themselves
[/quote]

LCP thread is over there - this is about this players that roll the ball in all conditions. Nobody disputes that LCP is a valid local rule, and if it were the rule of the day, of course everyone would use it. I think it should only be used in truly exceptional situations, but I would use it if it were a condition of competition. Casual round? No way. But others are free to do as they please - but I wish they would own up to cheating.
[/quote]

The way i play is If my course lists the conditions as winter rules i'll move the ball in casual rounds, if it's summer rules i will not. If i play a public course that doesn't declare i'll decide based on what i think my course would do in the same conditions

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

I've played at courses where the starter tells anyone that balls lost in the tall rough or tree along the fairway should be treated as if it's in a lateral hazard. As if.

[italianstallion]

[quote name='HighSpeedScene' timestamp='1381712863' post='7996939']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1381692725' post='7995739']
If my course is winter rules i'm more then happy to play against guys who insist on not touching the ball. Not sure why you wouldn't give yourself every advantage allowed to you by the rules.

One of our club championship rounds was LCP due to weather, every player in the field that i spoke to moved their ball. I don't remember guys coming into the clubhouse and boasting about playing it down, nor do i think they would have met with anything other then ridicule for making it more difficult on themselves
[/quote]

LCP thread is over there - this is about this players that roll the ball in all conditions. Nobody disputes that LCP is a valid local rule, and if it were the rule of the day, of course everyone would use it. I think it should only be used in truly exceptional situations, but I would use it if it were a condition of competition. Casual round? No way. But others are free to do as they please - but I wish they would own up to cheating.
[/quote]

Oh well in that case I don't know why I wasted my time on the last two posts I wrote. The tee, green, and tournaments under LCP are the only times I touch my ball.

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1381713633' post='7997007']
I've played at courses where the starter tells anyone that balls lost in the tall rough or tree along the fairway should be treated as if it's in a lateral hazard. As if.
[/quote]

If that's directed at me no problem, if anything i've said makes me a cheater in your eyes OK. I don't believe i'm playing in contrast to the spirit of the rules or disrespecting the game. If making a decision about winter rules at a public course that doesn't specify, or agreeing with partners late in the season that balls in the fairway or a few yards off lost in leaves is worth a free drop (in the 2-3 weeks it's relevant before our posting season ends October 31st), i'm probably still slightly better then Hitler. I'm OK with that even if admitting that means members of the USGA need to shoot me on sight.

[HighSpeedScene]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1381714277' post='7997095']
[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1381713633' post='7997007']
I've played at courses where the starter tells anyone that balls lost in the tall rough or tree along the fairway should be treated as if it's in a lateral hazard. As if.
[/quote]

If that's directed at me no problem, if anything i've said makes me a cheater in your eyes OK. I don't believe i'm playing in contrast to the spirit of the rules or disrespecting the game. If making a decision about winter rules at a public course that doesn't specify, or agreeing with partners late in the season that balls in the fairway or a few yards off lost in leaves is worth a free drop (in the 2-3 weeks it's relevant before our posting season ends October 31st), i'm probably still slightly better then Hitler. I'm OK with that even if admitting that means members of the USGA need to shoot me on sight.
[/quote]

Don't worry jeff, it doesn't make you a bad person. Just someone that cheats at golf. Embrace it. Don't try to justify it, or equivocate that there are other people that are worse than you (lol - Hitler - seriously?)...just say it. Live it. Love it.

[ssp]

Do what you want ... golf is meant to be fun. If a situation (foursome game, local tourney, etc..) requires a specific rule set .... play by them. Otherwise do whatever puts a smile on your face. Don't feel guilty or listen to some BS from somebody that preaching the rules of golf.

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='HighSpeedScene' timestamp='1381714560' post='7997113']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1381714277' post='7997095']
[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1381713633' post='7997007']
I've played at courses where the starter tells anyone that balls lost in the tall rough or tree along the fairway should be treated as if it's in a lateral hazard. As if.
[/quote]

If that's directed at me no problem, if anything i've said makes me a cheater in your eyes OK. I don't believe i'm playing in contrast to the spirit of the rules or disrespecting the game. If making a decision about winter rules at a public course that doesn't specify, or agreeing with partners late in the season that balls in the fairway or a few yards off lost in leaves is worth a free drop (in the 2-3 weeks it's relevant before our posting season ends October 31st), i'm probably still slightly better then Hitler. I'm OK with that even if admitting that means members of the USGA need to shoot me on sight.
[/quote]

Don't worry jeff, it doesn't make you a bad person. Just someone that cheats at golf. Embrace it. Don't try to justify it, or equivocate that there are other people that are worse than you (lol - Hitler - seriously?)...just say it. Live it. Love it.
[/quote]

I've played 80 rounds this year approximately, according to the official rules of golf maybe i've cheated in 3-4 of them year to date. OK i'll embrace that i cheat at golf in 4-5% of my rounds.

That's probably all i can really say on the subject at this point

[Sean2]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1381704215' post='7996321']
[quote name='Bucken77' timestamp='1381703674' post='7996299']
How about in the winter when you hit a good shot into a crap ton of leaves and can't find it. Do you count a stroke or just drop a ball where you think it was?
[/quote]

That should be a thread all into itself. Northeastern golfers if they don't abide by some sort of "leaf rule" face situations where they are either going to play 5 hour rounds or see their handicap go up a couple of shots just based on leaves at the end of the year.

People not from the area don't really get it, you can be 2 feet off the fairway and have no chance of finding your ball. I've lost a ball, then taken a drop, then gone to my bag which was 25 feet away to get a club, then lost the ball i dropped when the wind blew leaves on it

IMO it's a grey area. Discussing is just going to lead to more internet fisticuffs.

But i think in the northeast handicap control is a tough thing. Some guys stop playing in mid October and then go south or something. If people are so inclined they can play through October and then in April and start the season as a 8 handicap when they should be a 3

that isn't fair either
[/quote]

Segue: Jeff, today I hit an approach shot on the the green, it took a couple hop and rolled off the back of the green. I spent more then five minutes looking for the ball...it was three feet off the green buried in the leaves. :-)

[GWD]

In California we have the environmental police. "Environmentally sensitive" areas are on several courses that I play. How they are treated is up to the course.

On one high-dollar course if you hit a ball into an environmental area you can't go in to look for it - even if you can see it just out of reach. You get a free drop with no penalty. The special area looks like a standard unkempt area you'd find just about anywhere in the state.

A low-dollar course has the same "no entry" policy but it costs a stroke and is played like a lateral water hazard.

Point is that courses can apparently make any local rules they choose and it is up to the golfer to follow them,

Maybe that is how those courses get their range balls.

[Bonesaw]

Good golfers play to practice. So they move it if they want

[goobers80]

[quote name='HighSpeedScene' timestamp='1381494933' post='7986081']
[quote name='JJK947' timestamp='1381458281' post='7984849']
[quote name='502 to Right' timestamp='1381457708' post='7984813']
How is this a habit? It's flat out cheating. Thankfully I've never played with fools like this.
[/quote]

How is it cheating if the score is inconsequential? The OP is talking about casual rounds not competition or rounds towards handicap.
[/quote]

How is intentionally violating a rule NOT cheating?

Edit: I don't care what you do,but please don't try to justify it. You don't feel like you have to play by all of the rules. So you cheat a smidge. Say it proudly - unless you feel like there is something you have to explain? If that's the case, perhaps you should evaluate what you're doing.
[/quote]

[color="#800080"]​ It is only a rule if it is 100% required or chosen prior to the shot. If i deems a round , no rules , no scores , that is that. If i do nots mark my ball on green ands roll it forward ands back to the spot , it is the same putt. I played in abouts 25 tournaments this year , ands these recent casual rounds , i coulds care what rule i may be breaking in a round i just want to hit golf shots. I just do nots want to waste mental stamina on rules not required. If i am goings to be called a cheater , i will tell you where to put that. If the pedestals have no room for me , i will keep hittings my golf shots. These arguments are nonsense. [/color]

[color="#800080"]​Cheating is only issues in tournaments ands yet to see it done in person. At times i wish i coulds move my ball , but it is required i leave it unless free drops.[/color]

[502 to Right]

I thought of this thread today. I was playing as a single and hitting multiple balls and such so no posting of the scores.

On 10 (which was my first hole) I smoked a drive right down the middle of the fairway. I get to my ball and it was in an unfilled divot in the middle of the fairway. I thought about rolling it out, but then I thought of this thread and left it there. Cold topped the ball into the pond in front of the green. Golf stinks sometimes. But at least I didn't cheat myself, the game, or several people in this thread. LOL.

[kekoa]

Same guy who rarely holes out also rolls the ball in fwy