Needing a credit card to make a tee time

[5 O'Clock Charlie]

This thread should just be another reason NOT to have a credit card at all.

[SadTrombone]

[quote name='Hot Rod 71' timestamp='1381837911' post='8003785']
[quote name='Rob G 89' timestamp='1381721543' post='7997805']
I see your story above how long ago did this happend? Every purchase I've made online requires 3 digit code even purchases by phone require it.
[/quote]
A signature is required, but the receipts that are signed get filed away and the CC companies never see them. It is the retailer's job to verify signatures.
[/quote]

There's a reason (most/reputible) retailers (that know what they're doing) keep those receipts for a while. We used to keep ours 120 days. We had a situation once where a very pissed off ex wife came in and used her credit card for a bunch of stuff. We had to pull the receipts and get copies made for the credit card vendor or we faced chargeback.

Retailers have to "verify" the signature, but believe me if a dispute is initiated, the credit card company is going to want to see that signature, too.

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

[list]
[*]I don't mind having to supply a CC number. It's the places like Pebble Beach and other "destination" courses that want payment up front, even weeks or months in advance, of a green fee equal to a couple months of my club dues. Man I'd have to want to play somewhere real bad to do that.
[/list]

[Truman]

Ironic to have a thread like this on a golf web site. A sport based on individual integrity and a thread based on how best to cheat a golf course owner.

[SadTrombone]

[quote name='Truman' timestamp='1382054054' post='8018315']
Ironic to have a thread like this on a golf web site. A sport based on individual integrity and a thread based on how best to cheat a golf course owner.
[/quote]

And in the same thread, the golf course operators discussing how they cheat the credit card vendor agreement by running a charge with no signature and no authorization......

[bruinsPATSirish]

[quote name='minitour' timestamp='1382334320' post='8033083']
[quote name='Truman' timestamp='1382054054' post='8018315']
Ironic to have a thread like this on a golf web site. A sport based on individual integrity and a thread based on how best to cheat a golf course owner.
[/quote]

And in the same thread, the golf course operators discussing how they cheat the credit card vendor agreement by running a charge with no signature and no authorization......
[/quote]

How do you come to that conclusion? You want to play three months from now and book a reservation for 12 players (3 tee times). I tell you that we have to take a credit card to hold the reservation and if you no show or cancel within the 48 hour window we will charge the card for the golf. You then give me your name, credit card #, expiration, and the code on the back. I enter it into our online booking program and all is well in the world when you show up with your 12 players on that day. If you don't then guess what it's a simple transaction through the program that you already authorized prior. Confused?

[SadTrombone]

[quote name='bruinsPATSirish' timestamp='1382391033' post='8036281']
How do you come to that conclusion?
[/quote]
Because I, and my lawyer, can read.

You need to read your vendor agreement/contract with companies like Visa, MasterCard, etc.

You're supposed to be getting a signature. Just like those places that have "minimum" purchase for a credit card transaction. Yeah, I know about the fees (I owned a business that accepted credit cards), but it still violates the terms of the agreement.

Confused?

[trojangolfer]

[quote name='minitour' timestamp='1382601974' post='8049993']
[quote name='bruinsPATSirish' timestamp='1382391033' post='8036281']
How do you come to that conclusion?
[/quote]
Because I, and my lawyer, can read.

You need to read your vendor agreement/contract with companies like Visa, MasterCard, etc.

You're supposed to be getting a signature. Just like those places that have "minimum" purchase for a credit card transaction. Yeah, I know about the fees (I owned a business that accepted credit cards), but it still violates the terms of the agreement.

Confused?
[/quote]

Perhaps you and your lawyer aren't aware that credit card issuers have different form agreements for different types of customers and it is up to you to negotiate to get the agreement that suits your business. Tell me, do you have to sign anything when you use your credit card at the pump at a gas station? How about for a $10 charge at Starbucks?

You also apparently aren't aware that the Dodd-Frank Act legalized charging a fee for credit card purchases under $10 as of 2010.

[QMany]

[quote name='cpriceAP2' timestamp='1381627188' post='7993269']
I give them a CC number, they may not be in the correct order, but I give them one. They never pre run it and I've never had anyplace say there was an issue. Stops them from charging me for canceling though.
[/quote]
... and they say golf is a game of integrity.

[Thug Hunter]

For the person who stated he provides a false CC number, I just want to point something out. Most states, if not all states have this kind of law. This is from the Texas Penal Code.

[b]I highlighted the key areas to read.[/b]


[b]Sec. 32.31. CREDIT CARD OR DEBIT CARD ABUSE.[/b] (a) For purposes of this section:
(1) "Cardholder" means the person named on the face of a credit card or debit card to whom or for whose benefit the card is issued.
(2) "Credit card" means an identification card, plate, coupon, book, number, or any other device authorizing a designated person or bearer to obtain property or services on credit. The term includes the number or description of the device if the device itself is not produced at the time of ordering or obtaining the property or service.
(3) "Expired credit card" means a credit card bearing an expiration date after that date has passed.
(4) "Debit card" means an identification card, plate, coupon, book, number, or any other device authorizing a designated person or bearer to communicate a request to an unmanned teller machine or a customer convenience terminal or obtain property or services by debit to an account at a financial institution. The term includes the number or description of the device if the device itself is not produced at the time of ordering or obtaining the benefit.
(5) "Expired debit card" means a debit card bearing as its expiration date a date that has passed.
(6) "Unmanned teller machine" means a machine, other than a telephone, capable of being operated by a customer, by which a customer may communicate to a financial institution a request to withdraw a benefit for himself or for another directly from the customer's account or from the customer's account under a line of credit previously authorized by the institution for the customer.
(7) "Customer convenience terminal" means an unmanned teller machine the use of which does not involve personnel of a financial institution.
(b) [b]A person commits an offense if[/b]:
(1) with intent to obtain a benefit fraudulently, he presents or uses a credit card or debit card with knowledge that:
(A) the card, whether or not expired, has not been issued to him and is not used with the effective consent of the cardholder; or
(B) the card has expired or has been revoked or cancelled;
(2) [b]with intent to obtain a benefit, he uses a fictitious credit card or debit card or the pretended number or description of a fictitious card;[/b]
(3) he receives a benefit that he knows has been obtained in violation of this section;
(4) he steals a credit card or debit card or, with knowledge that it has been stolen, receives a credit card or debit card with intent to use it, to sell it, or to transfer it to a person other than the issuer or the cardholder;
(5) he buys a credit card or debit card from a person who he knows is not the issuer;
(6) not being the issuer, he sells a credit card or debit card;
(7) he uses or induces the cardholder to use the cardholder's credit card or debit card to obtain property or service for the actor's benefit for which the cardholder is financially unable to pay;
(8) not being the cardholder, and without the effective consent of the cardholder, he possesses a credit card or debit card with intent to use it;
(9) he possesses two or more incomplete credit cards or debit cards that have not been issued to him with intent to complete them without the effective consent of the issuer. For purposes of this subdivision, a card is incomplete if part of the matter that an issuer requires to appear on the card before it can be used, other than the signature of the cardholder, has not yet been stamped, embossed, imprinted, or written on it;
(10) being authorized by an issuer to furnish goods or services on presentation of a credit card or debit card, he, with intent to defraud the issuer or the cardholder, furnishes goods or services on presentation of a credit card or debit card obtained or retained in violation of this section or a credit card or debit card that is forged, expired, or revoked; or
(11) being authorized by an issuer to furnish goods or services on presentation of a credit card or debit card, he, with intent to defraud the issuer or a cardholder, fails to furnish goods or services that he represents in writing to the issuer that he has furnished.
© It is presumed that a person who used a revoked, cancelled, or expired credit card or debit card had knowledge that the card had been revoked, cancelled, or expired if he had received notice of revocation, cancellation, or expiration from the issuer. For purposes of this section, notice may be either notice given orally in person or by telephone, or in writing by mail or by telegram. If written notice was sent by registered or certified mail with return receipt requested, or by telegram with report of delivery requested, addressed to the cardholder at the last address shown by the records of the issuer, it is presumed that the notice was received by the cardholder no later than five days after sent.
(d) [b]An offense under this section is a state jail felony[/b], except that the offense is a felony of the third degree if it is shown on the trial of the offense that the offense was committed against an elderly individual as defined by Section 22.04.

[That Bob Guy]

Ya gotta be creative. An alias and a made-up number credit card number will do the trick if the policy bothers you.

[Thug Hunter]

[quote name='That Bob Guy' timestamp='1382699352' post='8055577']
Ya gotta be creative. An alias and a made-up number credit card number will do the trick if the policy bothers you.
[/quote]

Did you even read my post right above yours? It's not being "creative", it's an indictable violation of the law.

[trojangolfer]

[quote name='Thug Hunter' timestamp='1382713656' post='8056449']
[quote name='That Bob Guy' timestamp='1382699352' post='8055577']
Ya gotta be creative. An alias and a made-up number credit card number will do the trick if the policy bothers you.
[/quote]

Did you even read my post right above yours? It's not being "creative", it's an indictable violation of the law.
[/quote]

Thughunter, I would like to see a case where the DA is able to prove mens rea where a person gave a golf course an incorrect (though not fraudulent) credit card number to hold a tee time. Simply put, you would never be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the monkey answering the phones didn't enter the card number incorrectly. This demonstrates why law enforcement members with a high school diploma aren't ultimately responsible for enforcing our laws. Leave that to someone with a JD and a higher IQ. That said, I would never skip out on the obligation to pay the greens fee if I missed a tee time.

[Dizz]

This place is unbearable sometimes...

[Hot Rod 71]

[quote name='trojangolfer' timestamp='1382729099' post='8057753']
[quote name='Thug Hunter' timestamp='1382713656' post='8056449']
[quote name='That Bob Guy' timestamp='1382699352' post='8055577']
Ya gotta be creative. An alias and a made-up number credit card number will do the trick if the policy bothers you.
[/quote]

Did you even read my post right above yours? It's not being "creative", it's an indictable violation of the law.
[/quote]

Thughunter, I would like to see a case where the DA is able to prove mens rea where a person gave a golf course an incorrect (though not fraudulent) credit card number to hold a tee time. Simply put, you would never be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that [b]the monkey answering the phones[/b] didn't enter the card number incorrectly. This demonstrates why l[b]aw enforcement members with a high school diploma[/b] aren't ultimately responsible for enforcing our laws. [b]Leave that to someone with a JD and a higher IQ[/b]. That said, I would never skip out on the obligation to pay the greens fee if I missed a tee time.
[/quote]

Wow! Really?

I work part-time at a golf course as "the monkey answering phones" and I have a Master's Degree. The club pro and every other "monkey" that works the desk has at least a Bachelor's Degree. There are also more and more officers on the street with college degrees now.

Can you possibly be more smug?

[That Bob Guy]

[quote name='Thug Hunter' timestamp='1382713656' post='8056449']
[quote name='That Bob Guy' timestamp='1382699352' post='8055577']
Ya gotta be creative. An alias and a made-up number credit card number will do the trick if the policy bothers you.
[/quote]

Did you even read my post right above yours? It's not being "creative", it's an indictable violation of the law.
[/quote]
Nope!

[Dizz]

[quote name='Hot Rod 71' timestamp='1382878960' post='8064149']
[quote name='trojangolfer' timestamp='1382729099' post='8057753']
[quote name='Thug Hunter' timestamp='1382713656' post='8056449']
[quote name='That Bob Guy' timestamp='1382699352' post='8055577']
Ya gotta be creative. An alias and a made-up number credit card number will do the trick if the policy bothers you.
[/quote]

Did you even read my post right above yours? It's not being "creative", it's an indictable violation of the law.
[/quote]

Thughunter, I would like to see a case where the DA is able to prove mens rea where a person gave a golf course an incorrect (though not fraudulent) credit card number to hold a tee time. Simply put, you would never be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that [b]the monkey answering the phones[/b] didn't enter the card number incorrectly. This demonstrates why l[b]aw enforcement members with a high school diploma[/b] aren't ultimately responsible for enforcing our laws. [b]Leave that to someone with a JD and a higher IQ[/b]. That said, I would never skip out on the obligation to pay the greens fee if I missed a tee time.
[/quote]

Wow! Really?

I work part-time at a golf course as "the monkey answering phones" and I have a Master's Degree. The club pro and every other "monkey" that works the desk has at least a Bachelor's Degree. There are also more and more officers on the street with college degrees now.

Can you possibly be more smug?
[/quote]

We're talking about needing a credit card to do something as simple as make a tee time over the phone just so the course has it's behind covered should the players not show up. Annnnnnd we have members talking to their lawyer about fraudulent charges or requiring a signature to prove a sale, proving mens rea and using the abbreviation of DA-- that I only know to mean District Attorney from all the crime shows I watch.

Signed,
Another monkey with an accelerated degree answering the phone in a pro shop

[bruinsPATSirish]

[quote name='trojangolfer' timestamp='1382729099' post='8057753']
[quote name='Thug Hunter' timestamp='1382713656' post='8056449']
[quote name='That Bob Guy' timestamp='1382699352' post='8055577']
Ya gotta be creative. An alias and a made-up number credit card number will do the trick if the policy bothers you.
[/quote]

Did you even read my post right above yours? It's not being "creative", it's an indictable violation of the law.
[/quote]

Thughunter, I would like to see a case where the DA is able to prove mens rea where a person gave a golf course an incorrect (though not fraudulent) credit card number to hold a tee time. Simply put, you would never be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the monkey answering the phones didn't enter the card number incorrectly. This demonstrates why law enforcement members with a high school diploma aren't ultimately responsible for enforcing our laws. Leave that to someone with a JD and a higher IQ. That said, I would never skip out on the obligation to pay the greens fee if I missed a tee time.
[/quote]

Wow, how is it up on that horse? I'm sure you're a really awesome guy and all, but why don't you do yourself a favor and go play in traffic. I know you think you could run a multi-million dollar golf facility with your eyes closed and head up your ssa, but I would pay to see you run it straight into the ground. I'm going to take my monkey-minded, low IQ, phone-answering self out to the first tee. I'll meet you there if you want to get your ssa waxed on the course too. What a pr1ck you must be...

[agray94]

I work at a public course. We only ask for cards on large tee groups(like 4 or more tee times) or outings to protect from no shows. We usually ask a contact number and that's it.

[Thug Hunter]

[quote name='trojangolfer' timestamp='1382729099' post='8057753']
[quote name='Thug Hunter' timestamp='1382713656' post='8056449']
[quote name='That Bob Guy' timestamp='1382699352' post='8055577']
Ya gotta be creative. An alias and a made-up number credit card number will do the trick if the policy bothers you.
[/quote]

Did you even read my post right above yours? It's not being "creative", it's an indictable violation of the law.
[/quote]

Thughunter, I would like to see a case where the DA is able to prove mens rea where a person gave a golf course an incorrect (though not fraudulent) credit card number to hold a tee time. Simply put, you would never be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the monkey answering the phones didn't enter the card number incorrectly. This demonstrates why law enforcement members with a high school diploma aren't ultimately responsible for enforcing our laws. Leave that to someone with a JD and a higher IQ. That said, I would never skip out on the obligation to pay the greens fee if I missed a tee time.
[/quote]

Thanks for posting?? I'm not on this forum to get into a debate about culpable mental states or education needed to enforce laws. Hopefully you're intelligent enough to understand that I was only responding to the posts that were suggesting someone intentionally give false CC information to avoid paying the cancellation fee.