Men only clubs

[Holy Moses]

Seminole is having the U.S. Amateur in 5 years or so.

[Zeverson]

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1388550330' post='8377565']
[quote name='Zeverson' timestamp='1388462577' post='8371927']
Preston Trail in Dallas is men only. Some of the members include:

Lanny wadkins
Lee Trevino
George W Bush
Troy Aikman

Micky Mantle was a member as well. It's a magical place.
[/quote]



Home of the Mickey mantle rule.

It states that members must wear "something" in the men's grill.
[/quote][quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1388550330' post='8377565']
[quote name='Zeverson' timestamp='1388462577' post='8371927']
Preston Trail in Dallas is men only. Some of the members include:

Lanny wadkins
Lee Trevino
George W Bush
Troy Aikman

Micky Mantle was a member as well. It's a magical place.
[/quote]

Home of the Mickey mantle rule.

It states that members must wear "something" in the men's grill.
[/quote]

Rumor that is the only rule at the club.

[fore]

It's certainly within their right to discriminate, but I wouldn't join such a club because it would impede my right to freely associate with folks that the club doesn't accept. I much prefer the variety of folks that golf at a course that is open to all and play for love and camaraderie of the game. Though I'm sure some folks at the restricted membership courses love the game I'm also sure for some the attraction is more about being exclusive.

[The Pearl]

I have always thought that a great idea for a private golf course would be a course for the men and a course for the women. Also, perhaps, a short course for juniors, elderly, and members that want to learn to play. There could be cross over days or blocks of time where couples could play together, etc.

[Holy Moses]

[quote name='The Pearl' timestamp='1388589945' post='8378639']
I have always thought that a great idea for a private golf course would be a course for the men and a course for the women. Also, perhaps, a short course for juniors, elderly, and members that want to learn to play. There could be cross over days or blocks of time where couples could play together, etc.
[/quote]

I think that's kind of what Medinah does. Women can play any of the courses as far as I know, but course #2 is the one they mostly stick to.

But having a course just for women kind of defeats the purpose of having an egalitarian club. Egalitarian means women have access to everything than the men can access.

[Thrillhouse]

[quote name='Holy Moses' timestamp='1388551322' post='8377639']
Seminole is having the U.S. Amateur in 5 years or so.
[/quote]

Source?

I looked it up and future sites were only listed until 2018, and Seminole wasn't on the list. Plus isn't it closed in the summer when the US am is played?

[Holy Moses]

[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1388599193' post='8379265']
[quote name='Holy Moses' timestamp='1388551322' post='8377639']
Seminole is having the U.S. Amateur in 5 years or so.
[/quote]

Source?

I looked it up and future sites were only listed until 2018, and Seminole wasn't on the list. Plus isn't it closed in the summer when the US am is played?
[/quote]

I misspoke. They are having the Walker Cup there in 2021.

[Thrillhouse]

[quote name='Holy Moses' timestamp='1388601306' post='8379481']
[quote name='Thrillhouse' timestamp='1388599193' post='8379265']
[quote name='Holy Moses' timestamp='1388551322' post='8377639']
Seminole is having the U.S. Amateur in 5 years or so.
[/quote]

Source?

I looked it up and future sites were only listed until 2018, and Seminole wasn't on the list. Plus isn't it closed in the summer when the US am is played?
[/quote]

I misspoke. They are having the Walker Cup there in 2021.
[/quote]

Ah, that should be pretty cool, I've never seen the course before so that will be a nice opportunity to see it!

[Shemp]

Why is it anyone's business what a private club chooses to do about membership? Is the fact that there are clubs out there that have rules you don't agree with causing you harm? If you don't like the rules, don't join the club. Or join the club and try to convince the other members to change the rules. This used to be a free country.

[Guardian5]

My course is men only, we walk with caddies and there are 250 members, it is heaven, everyone knows it and cherishes the special place that it is.

[Golf-Junkie]

True, having the skirts running around is nice. But then getting away from that is pretty sweet too.

Also guys, don't forget, there are "mixed" clubs with memberships held by men and women, but if you play there you would never know it wasn't men only.

[gr00vetech]

I played Gator Creek in Sarasota this Summer. It was a fantastic day and if I didn't know it was Men only, I wouldn't have know it was any different than anywhere else I've ever played.

[Chief Illiniwek]

[quote name='Golf-Junkie' timestamp='1388631228' post='8382289']
True, having the skirts running around is nice. But then getting away from that is pretty sweet too.

Also guys, don't forget, there are "mixed" clubs with memberships held by men and women, but if you play there you would never know it wasn't men only.
[/quote]

That's what I was thinking. Pretty sure it'd be illegal for my local muni to be men only, but in practice it pretty much is!

[Bingo1976]

Is there a reason why it's OK to discriminate against women, but to not discriminate on racial lines?

I am sure a 'Whites Only' private club would be sued pretty quickly...

[BrianL99]

[quote name='Bingo1976' timestamp='1388638180' post='8382913']
Is there a reason why it's OK to discriminate against women, but to not discriminate on racial lines?

I am sure a 'Whites Only' private club would be sued pretty quickly...
[/quote]

I'm not sure about Singpore, but it's perfectly legal in the USA. No one sued Augusta National for being an "all white" club for 100 years and there are plenty more clubs in that boat.

[Bingo1976]

So free to discriminate, but not free to be free from discrimination. Delightful.

Singapore, by the way, maintains ratios of races in government housing to avoid ghettoisation and improve integration amongst the different races here (Chinese, Malay, Indian etc).

[BrianL99]

[quote name='Bingo1976' timestamp='1388663453' post='8383579']
So free to discriminate, but not free to be free from discrimination. Delightful.

Singapore, by the way, maintains ratios of races in government housing to avoid ghettoisation and improve integration amongst the different races here (Chinese, Malay, Indian etc).
[/quote]

The ULTIMATE discrimination and experiment in social engineering.

[Bingo1976]

[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1388665643' post='8383639']
[quote name='Bingo1976' timestamp='1388663453' post='8383579']
So free to discriminate, but not free to be free from discrimination. Delightful.

Singapore, by the way, maintains ratios of races in government housing to avoid ghettoisation and improve integration amongst the different races here (Chinese, Malay, Indian etc).
[/quote]

The ULTIMATE discrimination and experiment in social engineering.
[/quote]

I think constitutionalising racism and sexism is worse, but each to his (or her) own...

[BrianL99]

[quote name='Bingo1976' timestamp='1388666371' post='8383671']
[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1388665643' post='8383639']
[quote name='Bingo1976' timestamp='1388663453' post='8383579']
So free to discriminate, but not free to be free from discrimination. Delightful.

Singapore, by the way, maintains ratios of races in government housing to avoid ghettoisation and improve integration amongst the different races here (Chinese, Malay, Indian etc).
[/quote]

The ULTIMATE discrimination and experiment in social engineering.
[/quote]

I think constitutionalising racism and sexism is worse, but each to his (or her) own...
[/quote]

Unlike Singapore, here in the USA we maintain some semblance of liberty, freedom, free choice and personal rights and responsibilities ... albeit it, not enough to suit my tastes.

[Chief Illiniwek]

[quote name='Bingo1976' timestamp='1388663453' post='8383579']
So free to discriminate, but not free to be free from discrimination. Delightful.

Singapore, by the way, maintains ratios of races in government housing to avoid ghettoisation and improve integration amongst the different races here (Chinese, Malay, Indian etc).
[/quote]

That's awesome. You're such a free and enlightened people that the government has made it a law that its illegal not to be so.

Getting borderline off topic and political. I'd guess a clean up is nearing...

[golfortennis]

The race/gender question comes up and I always see the same thing. We have 2 black male members at our club that I play with often enough(they're usually a couple of groups ahead or behind me in the tee times, but several times we'll end up in the same group). We also have women. When the two black members are playing with us, there is nothing different I say or do then when playing with any of the other guys at the club. They're just guys, and kibitz just like the rest of us. Now put a woman in the group, though, and the dynamic changes completely. Everything from what gets talked about to how it gets said, sometimes even if you use the bushes or not to relieve yourself, is different.

Race is only a big deal(when it comes to mixed races at a golf club anyway) if a person chooses to make it one. Fundamentally there is no difference. There is a difference when you're talking about an opposite gender. I think anyone who tries to say otherwise is just blindly holding to a belief. I'm not saying the difference is good or bad, or that playing with women is bad. I do it quite often. But the difference is there, and you can't discount it.

[Par Fore]

this is a funny thing about society, and maybe gender issues in general. If there is a club that will only allow men, there will be some group of women that brings suit against the club for discrimination. If there is a club that only allows women, men will move to the next county just to get away from it, in fact men may sue so that they never have to join it. Why would women want to stoop to the level of a bunch of men anyway?

[fore]

[quote name='Bluefan75' timestamp='1388671072' post='8383925']
The race/gender question comes up and I always see the same thing. We have 2 black male members at our club that I play with often enough(they're usually a couple of groups ahead or behind me in the tee times, but several times we'll end up in the same group). We also have women. When the two black members are playing with us, there is nothing different I say or do then when playing with any of the other guys at the club. They're just guys, and kibitz just like the rest of us. Now put a woman in the group, though, and the dynamic changes completely. Everything from what gets talked about to how it gets said, sometimes even if you use the bushes or not to relieve yourself, is different.

Race is only a big deal(when it comes to mixed races at a golf club anyway) if a person chooses to make it one. Fundamentally there is no difference. There is a difference when you're talking about an opposite gender. I think anyone who tries to say otherwise is just blindly holding to a belief. I'm not saying the difference is good or bad, or that playing with women is bad. I do it quite often. But the difference is there, and you can't discount it.
[/quote]

True, with ladies in the group men tend to try to be more polite sort of like in any other situation when men and women socialize. I guess some golfers would rather not be forced to accommodate a woman in the group because it would cramp their style so to speak. That's their choice. I can't imagine why anyone would choose not to have someone of a different race in the group. Well, I can imagine why but it's better not to go there.

[Holy Moses]

[quote name='Shemp' timestamp='1388602913' post='8379627']
Why is it anyone's business what a private club chooses to do about membership? Is the fact that there are clubs out there that have rules you don't agree with causing you harm? If you don't like the rules, don't join the club. Or join the club and try to convince the other members to change the rules. This used to be a free country.
[/quote]

I think the thinking is something like "If there is sexism anywhere, there is sexism everywhere." Compartmentalization of sexism just to one area of a person's life is not possible. Not saying that this is my position, but that's how the argument goes.

[Tipsy McHooker]

If married men want a place to get away from their wives and play some golf, cards, have lunch and a drink after that is fine. If another married man wants to go with his family, play golf with the wife, and drop kids at the country clubs pool, that is also fine. There are many different clubs available to suit ones needs. If you are offended by one clubs policies, heres an idea...don't join or patronize it!

[Noonan]

[quote name='tapin15footer' timestamp='1388383243' post='8366261']
Sure, private clubs can do whatever they want (within the confines of the law)--after all, they are [i]private[/i] institutions. Whether or not there should be men-only golf clubs is not a legal question but rather a question better answered from a social and/or moral perspective. Simply because an institution is private does not mean that its practices have to be accepted by society. I, for one, do not think golf clubs should be able to outright ban women from joining--it's sexist, archaic, and simply unfair. Women haven't been afforded the same opportunities as men, historically speaking, and golf club membership is just a small part of that.

Just because the law makes no judgement on this matter does not mean it is right, in a moral sense. There are many issues untouched by the law, but this doesn't mean they can't be engaged with on a social level. The law is certainly not a complete, governing entity, and these are precisely the types of issues where society, collectively, is able to exert control through social influence. Condoleezza Rice becoming a member at ANGC was a big deal, and for good reason. In the wake of that announcement, there was a lot of pressure on other clubs to begin to admit women--at the very least, it stirred the pot and generated discussion.
[/quote]

Let me ask you a question: Why was Condi Rice becoming a member at Augusta a big deal or good for anyone?

It's only a big deal, because the media made it so. Did her admittance into Augusta do anything at all for women's rights or help any other women at clubs across the country? NO! Her membership there is a non issue & hasn't done a thing to change perception or rules at any other course. It stirred discussion for a day or two and was forgotten.

[mshills]

IBTL

For the record, I would not want to join a club that was men only, but I don't have a problem with the existence of such clubs.

Oh, and IBTL!

[golfortennis]

[quote name='Tipsy McHooker' timestamp='1388686594' post='8385473']
If married men want a place to get away from their wives and play some golf, cards, have lunch and a drink after that is fine. If another married man wants to go with his family, play golf with the wife, and drop kids at the country clubs pool, that is also fine. There are many different clubs available to suit ones needs. If you are offended by one clubs policies, heres an idea...don't join or patronize it!
[/quote]

And this highlights the biggest concern for me. Like you say, if you don't like how someone/thing conducts itself or its business, then just don't patronize. But for some people that isn't enough. Is there a host on the radio that you don't like? Well, it's not enough just to flip the dial and listen to another station, this person must be eradicated from the airwaves. That person can't join that golf club for one reason or another? Well by god they need to be able to join. Joining another club is just not good enough.

Someone stated earlier in the thread there is a great course that is men only, and they don't understand why women shouldn't be allowed to enjoy the course as well. Well, guess what, I'm a man, and I can't enjoy that course. So why does the fact a female wants to join deserve a fight, when I don't get the same support?

It seems a lot of people believe that freedom means freedom to like what they like, but not things they disagree with.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='bNeill' timestamp='1388426044' post='8368171']
[quote name='BrianL99' timestamp='1388398902' post='8366515']
"Discrimination" will always exist in this world, as it should.

Isn't one of the basic rights of humans, to associate with who they opt to associate with and eschew others?

How many strangers showed up at your family Christmas celebration? Probably none, because most of us choose to celebrate it with our "family", however that family is defined. We (consciously or not), banned strangers and unwanted guests from our Christmas morning with our "chosen few".

Or is it simply OK to privately discriminate on the basis of "family", but not gender, religion or race? Who gets to decide which discrimination factors are acceptable and which are not?

If we lose our rights to free association (& disassociation), we are one huge step closer to the Orwellian society described so many years ago.

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.
[/quote]

You're not using the word discrimination properly.
[/quote]

Yes, he is using it properly, as there is more then one usage. We can discriminate between right and wrong or good and bad and who to friend or not; as well as have discriminating tastes. We can even discriminate when it comes to political correctness, even if we open the door for a highly successful woman.

[SurfinTurf]

[quote name='Noonan' timestamp='1388688054' post='8385649']
[quote name='tapin15footer' timestamp='1388383243' post='8366261']
Sure, private clubs can do whatever they want (within the confines of the law)--after all, they are [i]private[/i] institutions. Whether or not there should be men-only golf clubs is not a legal question but rather a question better answered from a social and/or moral perspective. Simply because an institution is private does not mean that its practices have to be accepted by society. I, for one, do not think golf clubs should be able to outright ban women from joining--it's sexist, archaic, and simply unfair. Women haven't been afforded the same opportunities as men, historically speaking, and golf club membership is just a small part of that.

Just because the law makes no judgement on this matter does not mean it is right, in a moral sense. There are many issues untouched by the law, but this doesn't mean they can't be engaged with on a social level. The law is certainly not a complete, governing entity, and these are precisely the types of issues where society, collectively, is able to exert control through social influence. Condoleezza Rice becoming a member at ANGC was a big deal, and for good reason. In the wake of that announcement, there was a lot of pressure on other clubs to begin to admit women--at the very least, it stirred the pot and generated discussion.
[/quote]

Let me ask you a question: Why was Condi Rice becoming a member at Augusta a big deal or good for anyone?

It's only a big deal, because the media made it so. Did her admittance into Augusta do anything at all for women's rights or help any other women at clubs across the country? NO! Her membership there is a non issue & hasn't done a thing to change perception or rules at any other course. It stirred discussion for a day or two and was forgotten.
[/quote]

I can tell you what Condi's admittance has done for Augusta. There are now funny looking little divots from places that have never seen play. She plays at the AT&T ProAm out here. You don't want to be caught in her shank zone. A little old lady took a shank to the noggin last year.