Men only clubs

[JustTheTips]

Sex is also only an big issue if a person makes it one. You don't like playing with woman. My dad's retirement community has a couple of guys that don't like playing with blacks. There is no difference. And even if you don't like playing with woman, you aren't going to be forced to play with them. Just bring a 4some of guys and you will not have to deal with the issue.

The golf club issue gets clouded up by the tradition of golf clubs being institutions of the movers and shakers of the government and business world. How many times have you heard people post here about getting business deals or contacts from golfing. Personally I think that is way overblown but maybe I don't play at the right clubs:)

Freedoms and rights are tough because your rights and freedoms are always bumping up against mine and people differ on where to draw the line.


[quote name='Bluefan75' timestamp='1388671072' post='8383925']
The race/gender question comes up and I always see the same thing. We have 2 black male members at our club that I play with often enough(they're usually a couple of groups ahead or behind me in the tee times, but several times we'll end up in the same group). We also have women. When the two black members are playing with us, there is nothing different I say or do then when playing with any of the other guys at the club. They're just guys, and kibitz just like the rest of us. Now put a woman in the group, though, and the dynamic changes completely. Everything from what gets talked about to how it gets said, sometimes even if you use the bushes or not to relieve yourself, is different.

Race is only a big deal(when it comes to mixed races at a golf club anyway) if a person chooses to make it one. Fundamentally there is no difference. There is a difference when you're talking about an opposite gender. I think anyone who tries to say otherwise is just blindly holding to a belief. I'm not saying the difference is good or bad, or that playing with women is bad. I do it quite often. But the difference is there, and you can't discount it.
[/quote]

[FlyFish]

I personally wouldn't join a club that doesn't allow women because the 'lil lady likes to play. However, I'm not going to dictate to somebody else's private club on what they can or can't do on their own time and with their own money.

Aldarra Golf Club near Seattle doesn't have family memberships. Women are welcome to join, but they have to pay full price for individual memberships - just like the men. Nobody gets a free pass because of who they're married to. Perhaps that's the most fair and equitable way to do things in the modern age of equality.

[golfortennis]

[quote name='JustTheTips' timestamp='1388711514' post='8388089']
Sex is also only an big issue if a person makes it one. You don't like playing with woman. My dad's retirement community has a couple of guys that don't like playing with blacks. There is no difference. And even if you don't like playing with woman, you aren't going to be forced to play with them. Just bring a 4some of guys and you will not have to deal with the issue.

The golf club issue gets clouded up by the tradition of golf clubs being institutions of the movers and shakers of the government and business world. How many times have you heard people post here about getting business deals or contacts from golfing. Personally I think that is way overblown but maybe I don't play at the right clubs:)

Freedoms and rights are tough because your rights and freedoms are always bumping up against mine and people differ on where to draw the line.


[quote name='Bluefan75' timestamp='1388671072' post='8383925']
The race/gender question comes up and I always see the same thing. We have 2 black male members at our club that I play with often enough(they're usually a couple of groups ahead or behind me in the tee times, but several times we'll end up in the same group). We also have women. When the two black members are playing with us, there is nothing different I say or do then when playing with any of the other guys at the club. They're just guys, and kibitz just like the rest of us. Now put a woman in the group, though, and the dynamic changes completely. Everything from what gets talked about to how it gets said, sometimes even if you use the bushes or not to relieve yourself, is different.

Race is only a big deal(when it comes to mixed races at a golf club anyway) if a person chooses to make it one. Fundamentally there is no difference. There is a difference when you're talking about an opposite gender. I think anyone who tries to say otherwise is just blindly holding to a belief. I'm not saying the difference is good or bad, or that playing with women is bad. I do it quite often. But the difference is there, and you can't discount it.
[/quote]
[/quote]

You really should read more, and post less. Then you won't spew crap that is contradicted in the post you are replying to.

[JustTheTips]

I have played a ton of rounds with woman in the group, in front, and behind. It doesn't change a single meaningful thing about the round. Why? Because sex isn't a big issue when your out playing a round of golf. Your need to change behavior is your issue.

Of course I also use the restroom and not the bushes and I don't care what type of shorts your wearing either. YMMV.


[quote name='Bluefan75' timestamp='1388714306' post='8388339']
[quote name='JustTheTips' timestamp='1388711514' post='8388089']
Sex is also only an big issue if a person makes it one. You don't like playing with woman. My dad's retirement community has a couple of guys that don't like playing with blacks. There is no difference. And even if you don't like playing with woman, you aren't going to be forced to play with them. Just bring a 4some of guys and you will not have to deal with the issue.

The golf club issue gets clouded up by the tradition of golf clubs being institutions of the movers and shakers of the government and business world. How many times have you heard people post here about getting business deals or contacts from golfing. Personally I think that is way overblown but maybe I don't play at the right clubs:)

Freedoms and rights are tough because your rights and freedoms are always bumping up against mine and people differ on where to draw the line.


[quote name='Bluefan75' timestamp='1388671072' post='8383925']
The race/gender question comes up and I always see the same thing. We have 2 black male members at our club that I play with often enough(they're usually a couple of groups ahead or behind me in the tee times, but several times we'll end up in the same group). We also have women. When the two black members are playing with us, there is nothing different I say or do then when playing with any of the other guys at the club. They're just guys, and kibitz just like the rest of us. Now put a woman in the group, though, and the dynamic changes completely. Everything from what gets talked about to how it gets said, sometimes even if you use the bushes or not to relieve yourself, is different.

Race is only a big deal(when it comes to mixed races at a golf club anyway) if a person chooses to make it one. Fundamentally there is no difference. There is a difference when you're talking about an opposite gender. I think anyone who tries to say otherwise is just blindly holding to a belief. I'm not saying the difference is good or bad, or that playing with women is bad. I do it quite often. But the difference is there, and you can't discount it.
[/quote]
[/quote]

You really should read more, and post less. Then you won't spew crap that is contradicted in the post you are replying to.
[/quote]

[raynorfan1]

[quote name='BG5' timestamp='1388366461' post='8364991']
I just can't believe that there are still clubs in the U.S. and in Europe that don't allow women members and in some cases women are not allowed in the clubhouse. Does this seem weird to anybody else? Time for these clubs to get with the times.

Nothing worse than a sausage party. We need women running Around in short skirts.
[/quote]

How do you feel about Ladies Golf Club of Toronto?

[mshills]

[quote name='Bingo1976' timestamp='1388663453' post='8383579']
So free to discriminate, but not free to be free from discrimination. Delightful.

Singapore, by the way, maintains ratios of races in government housing to avoid ghettoisation and improve integration amongst the different races here (Chinese, Malay, Indian etc).
[/quote]

Right, Singapore being such a beacon of civil liberties and all. Please, spare us.

[Shemp]

[quote name='Holy Moses' timestamp='1388685818' post='8385375']
[quote name='Shemp' timestamp='1388602913' post='8379627']
Why is it anyone's business what a private club chooses to do about membership? Is the fact that there are clubs out there that have rules you don't agree with causing you harm? If you don't like the rules, don't join the club. Or join the club and try to convince the other members to change the rules. This used to be a free country.
[/quote]

I think the thinking is something like "If there is sexism anywhere, there is sexism everywhere." Compartmentalization of sexism just to one area of a person's life is not possible. Not saying that this is my position, but that's how the argument goes.
[/quote]

That in a nutshell is "progressivism". Someone else telling me what I'm thinking and that what I'm thinking is wrong and must be changed by fiat. My reason for belonging to a private men's only club would be my own and no one else's business. To jump to the conclusion that my decision would have been based in sexism is exactly what is wrong in our country today. Too many people thinking they have some god given right to control everyone else's life and thoughts when no harm has befallen anyone. If someone wants to belong to a private women only or mixed club and there is not one available.... they should build it themselves, but they have no "right" to force their way into any "private club".

Btw, I believe that any tax funded public course should be fully open to all, with no restrictions on hours/days/tee times etc.

I've never belonged to a "men's only" club. But I have belonged to a club that had a Men's Grill, and through "tradition", had days and hours that were pretty much restricted to one gender or the other. We did have one LPGA tour winner who was a member and a couple of + hdcp ladies who played whenever they wanted and there was never so much as a raised eyebrow about it.

[melrosegod]

OK, I kind of lost what i gather was your point. "we need women running around in short skirts"! Every private club has the right to do what they do. It's up to us as a conscious public to associate with or even recognize biast orginazations.

[jabrch]

[quote name='ghabanos' timestamp='1388366988' post='8365041']
Just curious... Where are these?

Of course agree that there should be a good mix...
[/quote]

Two of them are within 3 miles of my home.

[jabrch]

[quote name='FlyFish' timestamp='1388712379' post='8388159']
I personally wouldn't join a club that doesn't allow women because the 'lil lady likes to play.
[/quote]

For the record, the two clubs by me that are Men Only (Bob O Link and Old Elm) have a VERY high % of their membership who are members are other Country Clubs as well - for the family... Not justifying it...just sharing the facts.

[67VIP]

[quote name='Holy Moses' timestamp='1388550647' post='8377583']
These clubs know they will have to change their policies one day. Augusta knew it during the boycott. They just want to make the change on their time frame.
[/quote]

The boycott was a joke, complete p/r disaster for the organizers. Augusta ran their own tournament--not subject to the PGA Tour's oversight, and did not "have to" change their membership. They did so, quietly, on their own terms...although I am disappointed they didn't invite Annika Sorenstam as well. Cypress Point told the PGA Tour to take their event and stuff it when they bowed out of the ATT National rotation in the early 90s. I used to laugh when Tiger Woods did those commercials stating "there are still clubs that I cannot play because of the color of my skin"...well, I am a white male, anglo saxon, protestant, and I can't play those clubs either--so why should I feel sorry for you? I know for a fact I can never play Cypress Point, Augusta National, Seminole, Pine Valley, etc, etc...why the hell should I feel any sympathy for anyone else who can't play. Those are all private clubs, and I respect their inherit right to dictate who their membership consists of, and what their visitation policy is...if they even have one. You can't pick your co-workers, you can't pick your family members, but you can damn sure pick your friends. Public facilities are an entirely different animal, there equal access should be the rule.

[SilverBullets]

I had this discussion with someone one time and found it pretty funny that she sent her child to a all girls school. According to her, it was ok to have all boys/all girls schools but she thought there shouldn't be a all male private golf club.

I'm sure there would be absolutely no controversy with a all women golf club...